Help!!

[RichardJSampson]

Hi Friends,

I got the blues.. I built a computer with old parts lying around for my girlfriend and have hit a serious problem. Given that they're old parts, this is geared to you Veterans:

The motherboard is an MSI VIA Apollo Pro266 with Crucial 512 MB DDR266. The processor is a Pentium III 933. 300W Power Supply. I've tried a couple of Video cards. Here's the deal.. OS is Windows ME (yeah I know) installed freshly formatted HD (twice).

The computer works like a charm, but only in 16 color mode! Anything above that, and the computer will work for a couple of minutes max before going through a bizarre lock-up. What usually happens is, the screen will briefly (less than half a second) go to black, then the picture will be restored. Sometimes, the active window will be minimized upon restoration. Then, perhaps, the computer will remain functional. Inevitably, however, it'll go to black again, come back, and freeze (no mouse pointer response). This only happens when graphics are greater than 16 colors (not 16 bit, just 16 damn EGA colors).

At first I thought the CPU was overheating, so I put a beefy fan on with AS5. Then I thought it was the graphics card (Radeon 9600), so I put a brand-new old school GeForce MX4000 on it. Same thing.

I'm running out of ideas, and the computer needs to be up and running urgently. What sort of lock-up is this? What could be causing it? What can I do? I've done plenty of OS re-installations and harddrive wipes. The CPU and mobo weren't in the best of storage conditions, and the CPU die looks a little worn, but the computer can handle multiple programs, downloads, and all sorts of CPU intensive apps at once in 16 color mode. Please help ASAP guys.. You always come through for me.

Thanks so much

<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[Schmide]

Did you put in the 4 in 1 drivers?

<A HREF="http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/driver/dvr/spt_dvr_list.php?part=1&kind=1&CHIP=1&COM=2" target="_new">http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/driver/dvr/spt_dvr_list.php?part=1&kind=1&CHIP=1&COM=2</A>

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...

 

[RichardJSampson]

Yes sir, but no luck my friend. Thanks for the link though, I've been looking everywhere for the latest 4 in 1 drivers.

<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[P4Man]

Interesting, to say the least. I'm only guessing here, but I think your motherboard went tits up. What could be happening is something like the AGP port freaking out, windows ME detecting you "removed" the AGP card and resorting to 16 colour VGA instead. Of course, if its already in 16 colour VGA, nothing changes afa windows ME is concerned. You could try cooling your northbridge and see if that makes a difference, you could also try to go in the BIOS, and set AGP speed to the lowest possible. but neither helps, just dump the motherboard.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Maybe I'm nuts, but are you sure that your mobo can support the AGP cards that you're using? The voltages could be mismatched there or something. It's probably not this, but you never know. What's the exact mobo model anyway?

<pre> <font color=purple>I express to you a hex value 84 with my ten binary 'digits'. </font color=purple></pre><p>@ 185K -> 200,000 miles or bust!

 

[RichardJSampson]

Well, that seems like it could be a plausible explanation, especially regarding the Radeon 9600Pro, which is an AGP 8x card. However, the GeForce MX4000, so far as I'm aware, should be supported. How could I investigate this? Are there any BIOS settings that would allow me to change the voltage to a "supported" one?

The mother board is an MSI Pro266 Master (DDR and RAID) based on the VIA Apollo Pro266 chipset. It supports Socket 370 Coppermine CPUs, but not Tualatin. As you know, this is the only DDR chipset offered for the Coppermine.

Man I'm pulling my hair out and my girlfriend needs the computer to be functional for her job.. Needless to say she's going nuts.

Any more suggestions? Can't thank you all enough.

<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[P4Man]

have you tried forcing AGP 1x (or 2x) in the bios ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Ned_Flanders]

additioally up the AGP voltage.

______________
Welcome to my Shed of Pleasure

 

[slvr_phoenix]

The mother board is an MSI Pro266 Master (DDR and RAID) based on the VIA Apollo Pro266 chipset. It supports Socket 370 Coppermine CPUs, but not Tualatin.

Okay, so it's <A HREF="http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=Pro_266_Master-R&class=mb" target="_new">this board</A>. Hmm... I can't seem to find any manuals to download for it. That's going to greatly restrict what advice I can give. :\

Well, that seems like it could be a plausible explanation, especially regarding the Radeon 9600Pro, which is an AGP 8x card. However, the GeForce MX4000, so far as I'm aware, should be supported. How could I investigate this? Are there any BIOS settings that would allow me to change the voltage to a "supported" one?

Well MSI says that you've got AGP2, which I would think should work fine. :\ Granted, it's only 4X, but that shouldn't be a problem for your cards since AGP3 is backwards compatible to AGP2 as far as I know. However, what quick searching that I did makes it look like MX4000 is 8X. So maybe it is a problem somehow. I don't know. I don't think that it should be, but I can't come up with anything better to explain what you're seeing.

I don't think you can change the AGP voltage in BIOS, but then I don't have information on your BIOS to check that on. You might want to look for things like AGP speed to make sure it's at 4x, or even to disable fast writes if it's there. There might even be a setting for PCI graphics that you'll want to be sure you're set to AGP instead of PCI. Other than that, I can't think of anything else than to make sure that no PCI cards are plugged into the slot immediately below the AGP slot. :\

Sorry I'm not being too much help. I wish you luck.

<pre> <font color=purple>I express to you a hex value 84 with my ten binary 'digits'. </font color=purple></pre><p>@ 185K -> 200,000 miles or bust!

 

[RichardJSampson]

I think you're right about the MX4000 being an 8x card. I agree with you that the compatability shouldn't be an issue, but you never know with these things.

And yes, that is the motherboard.

I did try forcing 1x and 2x AGP, no luck.

My worry is that this is a hardware defect, but it just doesn't make sense that it would be. I really want to rule that out entirely. These lock-ups I described are more characteristic of conflict/incompatibility/software and not actually broken hardware, right?

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but you all have been helpful and I just wonder if there's someone here at THG that may have experienced a similar problem.

PS -- This mobo has no integrated graphics whatsoever, right? Clearly there's no output on the board, but this computer only needs to display XVGA, it will be used for business/non-3d purposes only. I guess my question is, can I buy a PCI or AGP "adapter" of sorts that routes on-board VGA function to a monitor output? This seems like a silly question, but there is a male port on the back of the mobo that says "video." It's around 12 pins or so, I don't have it in front of me right now.. I wonder what it is. It's on most motherboards, by the way, often two of them.



<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[P4Man]

>PS -- This mobo has no integrated graphics whatsoever, right?
> Clearly there's no output on the board, but this computer
>only needs to display XVGA, it will be used for
>business/non-3d purposes only. I guess my question is, can I
>buy a PCI or AGP "adapter" of sorts that routes on-board VGA
>function to a monitor output?

You could simply drop in a PCI videocard and use that instead of the AGP, it should work with no troubles, in fact, it was what I was about to recommend to you.

>This seems like a silly question, but there is a male port
>on the back of the mobo that says "video."

Hu ?? Wild guess, you are referring to the serial ports, and mistaking the icon for a display ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[RichardJSampson]

Yeah, definitely serial ports... Not sure why the term escaped me initially when I wrote it. Must be early Alzheimer's.. but one of the serials is labelled video which is bizarre. And definitely no VGA port

<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[RichardJSampson]

Yeah, definitely serial ports... Not sure why the term escaped me initially when I wrote it. Must be early Alzheimer's.. but one of the serials is labelled video which is bizarre. And definitely no VGA port

<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[RichardJSampson]

The crack smoking continues...

I'm tripping about trying to get this research grant, and yet another idiot mistake has been pointed out.

Anyway, here's my theory. I did an XP install, and things went better. Instead of locking up after 1-2 minutes, I can get a good 10-15 minutes out of her on 32bit or 16bit color before the freeze.

If you've seen this mobo, perhaps you've seen the "heatsink" on the northbridge. It's crap and has no surface area whatsoever. Probably weighs a few grams at most. I took it off before putting it into storage, removed the adhesive, and squeezed out what was left of an old AS5 tube onto it. Why I did this, I don't know. I was bored, had a new tube to use on my new computer, and thought it would be a fun way to get rid of the bit left in the old one. Granted, the heatsink is not held on by any adhesion, just the inherent cohesiveness you'd expect with a thick, viscous compound like AS5. You could put it right off effortlessly.

The CPU seems fine in 16 colors. The graphics cards are functional. I'm not too sure about the mobo, but I'd expect failure in 16 color mode as well should it be defective or damaged from storage (right?) So if the AGP is controlled by the northbridge, perhaps my little "I'm-bored" experiment is causing the northbridge to overheat? During lock-ups, I can't say the sink feels hot or very warm to the touch or anything, but perhaps thermal transfer is not occurring as it should.

Does this seem like a possibility to any of you? I thought the AS5 would improve the NB performance over the factory adhesive, but there's no external pressure being applied to the sink, and obviously a thermal grease is an inappropriate thing to use on such an application.

Maybe (active) northbridge cooling will solve the problem. Before I go trying though, how does one fix a HSF to the NB without any mounting mechanisms? Any recommendations for a cheap, easy solution for NB cooling? I've got an old factory Celeron Coppermine HSF lying around. Is it worth trying?

Gracias una vez mas, Amigos!

<font color=blue> Be good to each other! </font color=blue>

 

[P4Man]

Just having the HS loosely on the NB won't help cooling performance, but if the chip or HS don't get anywhere near warm on the touch, its not going to be your problem.

Im fairly sure its either a compatibility problem between your (+-modern) AGP cards and the motherboard (unless, did the Radeon work without issues before you stored the PC ?), either that, or the motherboard has gone tits up.

Just plug in a PCI videocard if you have one handy (or get one from ebay for $10).

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[slvr_phoenix]

I took it off before putting it into storage, removed the adhesive, and squeezed out what was left of an old AS5 tube onto it. Why I did this, I don't know. I was bored, had a new tube to use on my new computer, and thought it would be a fun way to get rid of the bit left in the old one. Granted, the heatsink is not held on by any adhesion, just the inherent cohesiveness you'd expect with a thick, viscous compound like AS5. You could put it right off effortlessly.

Whoah! Wait a minute! Are you saying that your northbridge, <i>the</i> connection between the AGP bus, the CPU, and the RAM, has a giant blob of congealed AS holding its heatsink on through an act of sheer viscosity? **ROFL** Wow!

If that's what is the case then clean off that AS thoroughly and buy a tube of thermal epoxy/adhesive. It'll hold the HS in place like glue, but conduct heat like thermal paste. It's bad for CPUs since they have clips and are meant to have removable heatsinks, but its good for northbridges that don't have clips and that you're not going to be switching heatsinks around on.

I could see it very likely that (if I'm understanding you correctly) your northbridge is simply overheating because the heat isn't even being distributed to its heatsink. <i>That</i> could cause any number of weird problems to occur, and would help explain why time is a factor in the failures.

<pre> <font color=purple>I express to you a hex value 84 with my ten binary 'digits'. </font color=purple></pre><p>@ 185K -> 200,000 miles or bust!