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OC'ing a Venice core... easy?

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April 28, 2005 6:44:06 AM

FIRST: which is newer, the NEWCASTLE or WINCHESTER? which is better?

Ok, so the new venice cores, they work on any s939 mobo right? No different than buying a winchester/newcastle?

So, if having a choice to buy Winchester VS Newcastle VS Venice, is it undoubtebly "go with Venice"?

I read this about them:

---------------------------------------------
While reaching 2.8 GHz with an Athlon 64 has been done before, I don't know if the same can be said about not having to increase the voltage or upgrade the cooling. The really hardcore overclockers are surely reading this, licking their lips, with their phase change coolers in one hand, and the other hand on their mouse searching for a Venice CPU to buy. Who could pass up a 40% frequency overclock for basically nothing?!?

---------------------------------------------

What does it mean by "basically nothing"?

Does this mean I could get an Athlon64 3000+ Venice core running at stock 1.8, and then OC it to 2.8 with ease (or maybe lower is fine), as in, no "extra cooling" or whatever?

I haven't OCed before but I might after reading this. What do I need to do/have to OC this? Will a $125 range s939 nforce4 board, and Kingston HyperX Cl2 pc3200 DDR memory work?

Along with an antec 480-550 watt PSU, decent cooling (two good 120mm fans), and then a stock HSF work for this?

Or maybe do I need a good HSF (recommendations?)


Is this safe? Is it easy? Should I go for it? What do I need to do, just change the multiplier in the BIOS and thats it?

Do I have to change RAM settings, will this work with that RAM, is it hard? Is it dangerous?


Thanks,
Dan


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU

More about : ing venice core easy

April 28, 2005 2:14:59 PM

Winchester is newer than Newcastle. I believe Winchester is only about a year old. Winchester OCs better and has a dual-channel memory controller. Clock for clock Winchester is better than Newcastle. But keep in mind that a Winchester of equal PR rating to a Newcastle has 200 MHz less clockspeed than the Newcastle.

The new Venice cores are expected to work with all s939 mobos.

I think Venice is the way to go. I will be purchasing one in the near future.

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-v..." target="_new">Xbit </A> Labs has an in depth review of the Venice core, but your quote might be from that article.

"Basically nothing" means using stock cooling and no voltage increase you can run it at 2.8 GHz. Keep in mind you will need memory than can handle a 311 MHz FSB speed. The Kingston you have is unlikely to do that. I think you would need that OCZ PC5000 VX memory to pull that off.
April 28, 2005 3:16:48 PM

If you can buy a Venice Core, get it! It supports SSE3, have a better memory controller and it have theorically a better overclocking potential.

Just to "correct" a fact about A64 overclocking...

You don't need HIGH-SPEED memory to overclock your A64. I have "no-name" memory in my system (2x512Megs DDR400 with Infineon chips). And I overclocked my CPU to 2.4GHz (from 2.0GHz) without memory overclock. You only need to change your memory ratio in your BIOS. Here is my BIOS settings :

FSB = 241MHz
CPU multiplier = 10x
Memory ration = 83% (of the FSB speed)
HTT multiplier = 3x

Resulting speeds are...
CPU = 2.41GHz
HTT = 723MHz
Memory speed = 201MHz (DDR402)

You could get super fast memory to run it in "sync" with the CPU, In the example above, the memory ratio would be 100% which would require "DDR480" capable memory modules.

But the A64 architecture is less dependant on memory bandwidth since the memory controller is very fast to access data in ram (low latency). Of course, benchmarking side by side systems with memory at DDR400 vs DDR480 would results in difference in performance. But I doubt the difference in performance is worth the extra memory cost. It's my opinion!

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April 28, 2005 4:30:58 PM

To push your memory as well as your CPU at the same FSB (in sync), you will ned to have some high quality memory. Like the above mentioned OCZ VX or some Crucial Ballistix AND be able to give them high voltages - the VX likes around 3.5V to 3.6V. Another low cost option is to try the <A HREF="http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168..." target="_new">OCZ Value VX OCZ4001024WV3DC-K</A>. It costs $118.31 at Newegg and has the the potential to perform close to the regular VX performance levels. Here is a recent <A HREF="http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392" target="_new">Anandtech Value Memory roundup</A> that details some of the OCs they did on value memory. Probably the only board that can push enough voltage without the OCZ DDR Booster is the <A HREF="http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=13-136-..." target="_new">DFI Lanparty UT nF4 Ultra-D</A>.

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
April 29, 2005 12:23:52 AM

Thanks for the great info.

Its ok if I can't hit 2.8, what can I hit with 100% stability, ease, safety, stock HSF, while using this Kingston memory?

Also, should I go for 3000+ or 3200+ Is the 3200 worth the extra $40-$50, or will the performance/safe OC potential with my RAM be much higher and definetly worth the money?

Or is the difference not that much, and should I just save the $40?

P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
April 29, 2005 1:26:04 AM

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/3746176?site=sr:SEARCH...

The rebate has expired, but it came with a $25 mail in rebate. I actually bought in store at Fry's Electronics, which cost $10 more, but I felt more comfortable being able to see the package/model #/RAM and everything on it (since everywhere else I've seen this RAM its been $180). You can check the model number in pricewatch (remember I got 1GB for $110, not 512... also it could have been $95 had I ordered online. Still a great deal even now w/out rebate... so it seems?), and also Kingston's site has more info of course.



P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
April 29, 2005 1:58:55 AM

First off, no two chips OC the same. Reviewers tend to get better OCing chips, and have great OCing skills. Dont count on getting a 25% OC on your first at bat.
The non-fx A64s do not have upwardly unlocked multipliers. To OC them, you have to raise the fsb.
The Rod is right, you are better off using a divider for your memory, than being held back buy the max of your ram.
To get into the high OCs, you will have to reduce the HT multiplier to 4X or 3X.
May 2, 2005 5:24:57 PM

what would be a reasonable expection with that RAM, a 3000+ venice core, and the s939 Epox Ultra board?

Also, does OC'ing cause more demand on the PSU even if you dont raise the voltage?


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 2, 2005 7:41:18 PM

Higher clocks mean higher power load, but its no different really if that clock is achieved at stock speed or using overclocking, all other things (like vcore) remaining the same. Sure, running your mem and HT at higher speeds would add a couple of watt perhaps, but nothing worth mentioning.

Especially not considering how cool Venice runs.. check this out:
<A HREF="http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_venice/7.shtml" target="_new">http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_venice/7.shtml&lt;/A>

Its not exceeding <b>30W at 2.4 GHz</b>. Pretty spectacular if you ask me.

BTW, I do have to wonder why you would upgrade in the first place, if the machine in your sig is yours.. you're not likely to see a huge or even noticeable performance increase from your current setup..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
May 3, 2005 3:33:46 AM

oh ic.

yeah i'm not upgrading the rig in my sig (hey that rhymes), its my old comp (1.2 athlon)... for playing LAN games. I'm going to get that one with the ability to upgrade later and then make it my main one (the p4 isn't very upgradeable, s939 is... in a year or so I'll put in a dual core w/a new PCI-E video card and a big SATA2 HD or something).

Venice core looks great. right now i'm thinking OC'ing might be a pain afterall, plus this is just secondary and temporary. I might just get the cheaper 3000+ winchester, retail box, for $146 thats available right now and get the upgrade done. Stop me if you think i'm a fool for doing that :) 


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 6, 2005 7:31:19 PM

Alright I got the Venice Core 3000+ w/K8 Venus7 HSF, on an Epox EP-9NPA+Ultra NF4 ULTRA motherboard. I am just going to stick with that Kingston HyperX RAM (Pc3200, 2x512mb).

((1HD, 1CD-RW, video is a GeForce 6600GT 128mb, PSU is an Antec 330w))

For me, using the RAM I am using, what is the best I can safely/easily do for an overclock? (3000 is clocked at 1.8). How many GHz should I be able to get it to w/ease?

And theroetically, what would I be able to get it to with one of the other recommended brands of RAM you guys showed there? The reason I am leaning towards staying with Kingston is I have a $120 RAM budget, and this HyperX is not value. The OCZ is value, and I haven't heard of OCZ as being a high quality RAM maker? Are they? For everyday use, and non-OC'ing purposes, which is better? I'm not trying to push this system to the limits of OC'ing or even have that as a focus. But I'd like to get a little boost out of it if possible, bringing it up to either a 3200+ or 3400+ level if thats possible with ease/stability.
Please answer this but also please focus on what I *DO* have...


-- Finally, are there any links or threads which deal specifically on how to OC this chip? Or can you guys just tell me what setting I would need to change, as I've never OC'ed before? I do understand about changing the multipliers and/or FSB, but not so much about RAM timings & voltages. Or what settings I should try my setup at.


- Thanks,

Dan


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 6, 2005 9:10:40 PM

edit: first things first...you're going to need to put the latest bios on there to allow for version E?? chips. I for one would like to hear how that goes...I've wondered if you would need another (older) cpu to boot that board with to upload the new bios. Hopefully you don't...

All below are at 4x HTT. 5x HTT is possible, but not a good idea and won't improve performance at all. If you go above 240-250 fsb then think about moving to 3x.

@ 1:1 with that memory/cpu/mobo...2.1ghz should be ez @ 233fsb

Probably you could hit a fsb (1:1) of around 245. But, i don't know what the limits of your mobo are. I've seen one post where a guy said he had seen <i>a</i> 300+ fsb. So i would think you could hit 245 fsb...

However, that said, i would leave everything the same, and let it run under load (100% cpu) for a couple of days...burn it in...Then worry about oc'n.

When you start oc'n, do it from the bios, don't use the software based kinds (they're a little iffy...can more easily cause corruption, etc). OC in small increments, 2mhz @ a time, run some basic tests/benchmarks at each settings making sure that its relatively safe, then go a little higher. When you hit 230 fsb or so, start running more and more benches, all the while keeping track of your temperatures on the cpu and the chipset. Aquamark and the Futuremark products are good for testing these kinds of things. There are a number of memory testers out there as well, both at a bios level and system level. Those can be provided by someone more knowledgible. A good place for these kind of programs is: <A HREF="http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/b_e.html" target="_new">benchmarkhq</A>, which has been linked several places now in this forum, and is a very popular place to go to get all your benchmarking needs. Once you hit upper 40c's stop OCing. Chances are, it's going to get warmer then it is right now in your room at some point, so might as well leave some headroom.

For what its worth, this is barely scratches the surface of things you need to keep your eye on. You'll want to check other areas on how to get the most out of your ram.

(Couldn't help myself...)The ram, set to it's stock timings and voltages will NOT go above 220 fsb, and probably won't go nearly that far. You'll need to get memory edumakated first =D. If you don't care how close your timings are...yet...just go through and change the memory timings from auto to manual, then change the timings from 2 3 2 (which are only 3 of, 7 or more settings you can change) to 3 4 4 with 1T not 2T. If you seem to be hitting a ceiling early, change to 2T, but you'll lose a significant amount of bandwidth, memory wise.

If you don't want to screw with the memory...try to find some info on dividers. You basically want to set your memory down to 166mhz (333ddr) then OC your cpu until the memory is running at 200mhz (400ddr)or so. What the divider does is run the ram at a slower speed then the cpu is running on.

Model:
cpu speed = multiplier (9 in this case) * fsb(200-400mhz)
-for instance...9*200=1800mhz your current cpu speed; memory = fsb...unless u use a divider;
-using a divider of 4:3*** or 333ddr or 166mhz (depending on what bios you're using they call it different things; which all means the same thing in the right context...); Basically what this does is gives you the fsb-33 mhz; So, using a divider of 4:3 (333 or 166), and running at a fsb speed of 233, would set your memory running at 200 (or a rated 400ddr speed).

***[there are other dividers...but this is the more commonly used one for 64's]

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x2][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by apesoccer on 05/06/05 05:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 6, 2005 9:43:34 PM

why? Whats wrong with this HSF? How does it compare to AMD's stock HSF, and why, and where do u get this info?

ApeSoccer - thanks for all the great info. I'll have to do some research and read over all that!


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 6, 2005 9:49:37 PM

Once you have hit your limit...

ie once your computer freezes, crashes or starts giving random errors during the benching process...

First (since you aren't upping the voltage...), back the fsb down 2 mhz and run the same test/bench again. If that runs alright, run it a second time and a third...then find a way to keep it going for a while. You WANT to crash your system here, so you don't crash it during something you deem important. The best program i've found to max out my current setups wasn't 3dmark or other benchmarking programs, but was just a game (HL2 for 15min will usually do it...sometimes a little longer...but not much). I've crashed my computer after running HL for 20 min, when 3dmark0x would run flawlessly. There are other programs which will max out your cpu/memory really well too, but they generally won't be creating the heat caused by your gpu being maxed out as well.

Now that you've run your quick benches, now it's time to leave a bench running over night, and again while you're at work (or class, whatever) during the day when it gets hottest (generally) in the place where your system is.

[btw-if you're updating the bios, PLEASE don't try uploading it while your cpu is OC'd...that's just asking for a RMA]

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x2][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time
May 7, 2005 2:34:02 AM

Quote:
[btw-if you're updating the bios, PLEASE don't try uploading it while your cpu is OC'd...that's just asking for a RMA]



qft!!

-------
Work sucks.
May 7, 2005 3:49:19 AM

Quote:
PLEASE don't try uploading it while your cpu is OC'd...that's just asking for a RMA

Not.
No chip is properly OCd unless it is stable. If it aint stable enough to do a bios update (talk about zero load), fix it first.
My chip runs stock @ 2.2 ghz. It has been running @ 2.45 since day 1. If you think I'm going back to 2.2, just to update the bios...

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by endyen on 05/06/05 11:51 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 9, 2005 4:14:22 PM

Did i tell an experienced OCer not to do this? Or was i talking to someone who may not have all the knowledge yet to OC well enough to know when a machine is stable enough to do something that could cause him to wait till he can RMA his board. Bite somewhere else.

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x2][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time
May 9, 2005 7:50:00 PM

hhheeeeeyyy so whats wrong with the HSF???


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 9, 2005 8:59:40 PM

Heh don't worry bout it, that hsf should do ok for moderate oc'n. These cpus stay pretty cool compared to the xp's. And if i'm smok'n crack here (considering i didn't even look at what hsf you're using...), then wusy can smack the tard out of me here when he has a chance.

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x2][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time
May 9, 2005 10:05:03 PM

its a Thermaltake K8 Venus 7 HSF... so how does it compare to the stock HSF?


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 10, 2005 3:57:16 AM

soo... most people say the stock HSF is pretty good, and you are saying its better than stock... but yet its crap... if you're going to say something make it useful and not so vague. Any OC'ing I do will be minimal, I already said that, so this HSF is great. Are you one of those "if it's not monster cable its crap" type of people?

Instead of being annoying, try being helpful and not so worried about making a million small posts to boost your post count. No one cares if you have 12,000 rude and useless posts.

And thank you to all those who posted truly helpful and detailed posts. I appreciate it so much and have found them very helpful.



P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
May 10, 2005 6:23:52 AM

it's cool. thanks for the more detailed info. I'm just glad that I didn't buy a dud HSF :)  you had me worried for second. At least its better than stock!!


P4c 3.2Ghz @ 800MHz Northwood / ABIT AI7 / 1GB Corsair XMS-Pro CL2 Pc3200 / 160GB Seagate SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache / BFG-Tech Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256mb / Antec Sonata case w/Antec TruePower 380W PSU
!