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AMD files antitrust suit against Intel

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June 28, 2005 1:39:50 PM

<A HREF="http://news.com.com/AMD+files+antitrust+suit+against+In..." target="_new">AMD files antitrust suit against Intel</A> and on THG @ <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050628_092509.ht..." target="_new">AMD files antitrust suit against Intel</A>

Quote:

"Advanced Micro Devices has filed an antitrust suit, alleging that Intel has an unlawful monopoly in the x86 microprocessor market.

AMD filed the suit in the U.S. District Court in Delaware, the company said Tuesday.

Sunnyvale, Calif.-based AMD said it has identified 38 companies that Intel has coerced into not dealing with AMD. Those companies include large-scale computer makers, small system-builders, wholesale distributors and retailers, AMD said.

"Everywhere in the world, customers deserve freedom of choice and the benefits of innovation--and these are being stolen away in the microprocessor market," Hector Ruiz, AMD's chief executive, said in a statement."

.....

June 28, 2005 2:00:23 PM

Hmm, I wonder how this will pan out?
June 28, 2005 3:03:49 PM

Welp, I know that Intel got busted in Japan for bribing builders and vendors NOT to use AMD chips in systems. I know they're pulling the same shennanigins here in the States. When a big company finds it's no longer able to compete with product they use unfair practices to stay in the game.

Da Worfster

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
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June 28, 2005 3:59:31 PM

while i dont doubt this is true i think its also true that amd couldnt keep up with the demand from large computer builders if they went with amd anyways so whoopdee doo.

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>
June 28, 2005 4:14:51 PM

Dell=Evidence

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...
June 28, 2005 4:15:34 PM

Mozz is gonna take credit for this one. Mozzie, I think you are great :smile:
June 28, 2005 4:17:06 PM

As much as I love you, I don't like cryptic posts which don't give any details! :evil: 
June 28, 2005 4:24:29 PM

I really didnt mean for the thread to come across that way. I was running late at the time that I posted it, but I was flipping out because I couldnt beleive that someone had told me something that significant and I just let it go in one ear and out the other. Plus, I was trying to answer about 10 different questions that were coming at me off the messenger.

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June 28, 2005 5:00:48 PM

Does this come across as rediculous to anyone else? Interestingly enough, Tom has a story regarding the RIAA on the frontpage, but I think the title link to it is very accurate for this story as well :) 

"If you can't beat 'em, sue em".

AMD is still learning that just because you have a better product doesn't mean you'll instantly have the entire market. :) 

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
June 28, 2005 6:04:42 PM

amd is the dumbest [-peep-] company ever. they have a good product they can't sell and now they're filing a dumb ass lawsuit when they couldn't even keep up with any more market share. MORONS
June 28, 2005 6:09:11 PM

Actually, I think their timing is quite good.

Their production capacity is about to skyrocket, so they are in the enviable position of being poised to massively increase their market-share, and have the facilities to support it.

Mike.

<font color=blue>Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside the dog its too dark to read.
-- Groucho Marx</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 28, 2005 6:35:30 PM

Only thing being, wich compagny has the most lawyers?

Altough im in favor of AMD's move I sure hope they have the shoudlers to do it all the way, it would be stupid to waste money for nothing. And these ruling always take years and many appeals wich sux.

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
Anonymous
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June 28, 2005 6:35:31 PM

Double<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by labbbby on 06/28/05 02:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 28, 2005 6:45:15 PM

agreed.

Mike.

<font color=blue>Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside the dog its too dark to read.
-- Groucho Marx</font color=blue>
Anonymous
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June 28, 2005 7:41:43 PM

umm thats possible and it could work as long as they dont spend more in the lawsuit then they would have spent on publicity hehe

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
a b à CPUs
June 28, 2005 11:14:08 PM

Yessssssssssssssssssssss with the puiblity of this trial even the average computer user non-geek will know that AMD's lower clock rate kill intel yay better processors! cheaper processors.

now lets hope that intel won;t loose too baldy so that there is competition and the AMD people will thus not go with what intel did.......
June 28, 2005 11:19:45 PM

About time!
June 29, 2005 12:52:04 AM

Quote:
and to maybe soften Intels agressive tactics

More likely, they will just pi$$ the giant right off. We may get to see how really nasty Intel can be.
Anybody who thinks the old boy's club in Washington isn't in bed with Intel, must be a virgin.
June 29, 2005 12:52:20 AM

You are a complete TWaT, nice post MORON.

This is it the downfall of intel, excelent publicty for amd, they have there circumstantial and solid proof evidence, intel is layer caked in the dog sh!t unless they hire micheal jacksons and OJ Simpsons lawyers.

Dead meat springs to mind, i will smile greatFully at there downfall.

Intel remind me of microsoft, there both BULLYs (w#~k@rs).

its good to see the underdog taking out the FATCATS.

<font color=purple> BOW DOWN AND SUCK MY eD!cK </font color=purple>
June 29, 2005 12:56:55 AM

That remains to be seen.

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June 29, 2005 3:07:54 AM

...this isn't good. I don't see why all the gaming communities are rolling in glee over this, well, lets return to the real word. Intel holds much of the market for a good reason, and frankly, yes there is probly foul play about, but I can bet you money that AMD has tried convincing companies not to use intel procs, just less successfully. Lets look at the facts, and not at a gaming level, most computer sales aren't gamers, thier families, companies, schools looking for cheap computers that are good quality and easy to obtain. Now lets say your this company manager who is in charge of buying fifty new computers for your company, if you screw up, its your but. Lets look at some history:

AMD: Alright, this companies been around awhile, but is still relatively small. To add, this company has a flawed past. Back in around the K6, K6-2, and a bit of the K7 area of AMD life, there was some bad stability issues with thier processors. No, this isn't crap, I have worked with at least about fifty different K6, and K6-2's at my job, their horrific in high stress enviorments, they grow unstable quickly, must be rebooted alot, crash alot. These are $5000+ machines new that are designed specificly for high reliability and high aaccuracy jobs, and they fail at it. Many companies have had issues with this. The heat issues with the AMD procs around 1-2 years ago, I have heard many stories about people having thier procs fry, toast, etc with those specific chips. The newer AMD's are promising, AMD has done thier homework and in several ways kick Intels ass, but thier past is blemished, high risk.

Intel: These guys have also been around for ages, in the early 386, 486's, pentiums, these things were top, stable, kept resonbly low heat, ran pretty good. The P3 was still an awsome chip, but AMD's counter was starting to peak up and give some hard competition. When the P4 arrived, Intel overestimated the power of netburst, and was trying to hit the highest frequincy. This hurt, but didnt quite cripple them, aside AMD's melting chips, they were doing well in comparison. The Northwood Processor did very well, beat AMD in a few ways, AMD beat it in a few ways, while it had great low temps, and wasn't too expensive, and very stable. The prescotts are a prob, their hot, but they seem to handle the heat very well, Ive heard of many heat related problems, but still havnt heard a meltdown yet. Top that off, buy an intel proc, you can get a nice intel mobo, intel lan, intel integrated graphics (a excellant stable video for a corp/school considering video graphics mean nothing to them).

So here are your options, AMD, this samller company that seems to be doing better but has this horrible past, or Intel, a well known large corp with a relativly good history in the stability and quality department. From this standpoint, the choice is much different than you would as a gamer, this is the situation producers like Dell, HP, Gateway, etc face. Maybe they are being toyed with alittle, but Intel holds the larger advantage at least for now. AMD needs to expand abit, make thier CPU's alittle more corparate friendly than powerful gaming processors, because in the real world, that is nothing. Doing all the complaining and sueing thier doing now is going to hurt them bad in the longrun, iring a huge company being a smaller company they are, thier going to get hell, and it may hurt intel alittle, but thier going to truely feel what hard times are.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Keman on 06/28/05 11:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 29, 2005 4:19:45 AM

As much as your post makes sense, it has nothing to do with the fact that Intel may be guilty of foul play, regardless of either companys past.

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June 29, 2005 4:46:11 AM

Im fine, dont worry about me[/sobs a river of tears] I tried to come over to the DARK SIDE "LUUKE, I AM YOR FATHER}" but no, MOZZ sux, hes a fanboi :tongue: [/cries more] My thread is dead[/farts and cries more] Im going to eat worms!

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June 29, 2005 4:49:30 AM

**Looks for thread exit**
**Slowly backs away**

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June 29, 2005 5:07:55 AM

Lol, just as bad as when I was awake for 26 hours staight (18 of them sat at my PC doing coursework) :eek: 

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June 29, 2005 5:46:20 AM

Okay, mister Intel superfanbois, let's set the record straight.
I built a great many K6-2 systems. The biggest problem with them was the poor quality of drivers for win95. On win98, they were as stable as any Intel system, and often outperfed them.
As far as the heat issue with the Palomino cores go, reality check time. Intel does not make a prescott chip that puts out so little heat/watts. The systems I built (60 or so) all ran at <50c. If you were enough of an idiot to stick a $5. fan on them, or put them in one of the cases that had the psu mounted wrong way round, you got what you deserved.
The way it was, Compaq and HP bothe sold as many of each of those systems as thier agreement with Intel would allow.
June 29, 2005 6:00:19 AM

you crazy mofo :p 

-------
<b>It's a man's obligation to stick his boneration in a women's separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger generation.</b>
June 29, 2005 8:02:23 AM

Hay Keman let shove the ture facts in your face.

I run my own company building Amd and intel computers and use them for other applications. Like for Miroblasting on glass.

Question to you Keman why dose it seem like there More problems on Intel then on Amd? I really think they miss spelled Dell it should of been spelled with a H hell. Where Amd it mostly showing them how to do something. Intel it seems to be hardware errors.


(AMD: Alright, this companies been around awhile, but is still relatively small. To add, this company has a flawed past. Back in around the K6, K6-2, and a bit of the K7 area of AMD life, there was some bad stability issues with thier processors. No, this isn't crap, I have worked with at least about fifty different K6, and K6-2's at my job, their horrific in high stress enviorments, they grow unstable quickly, must be rebooted alot, crash alot. These are $5000+ machines new that are designed specificly for high reliability and high aaccuracy jobs, and they fail at it. Many companies have had issues with this. The heat issues with the AMD procs around 1-2 years ago, I have heard many stories about people having thier procs fry, toast, etc with those specific chips. The newer AMD's are promising, AMD has done thier homework and in several ways kick Intels ass, but thier past is blemished, high risk.)


Face the fact the manager who pick out the computers. Could be the one at fualt. One he my not have known what he was doing and the computer mess up. Everyone makes mistakes. Oh the k6 and k6-2 and Pentem Pro all had heat issuse. They where all slots like the video cards


(Intel: These guys have also been around for ages, in the early 386, 486's, pentiums, these things were top, stable, kept resonbly low heat, ran pretty good. The P3 was still an awsome chip, but AMD's counter was starting to peak up and give some hard competition. When the P4 arrived, Intel overestimated the power of netburst, and was trying to hit the highest frequincy. This hurt, but didnt quite cripple them, aside AMD's melting chips, they were doing well in comparison. The Northwood Processor did very well, beat AMD in a few ways, AMD beat it in a few ways, while it had great low temps, and wasn't too expensive, and very stable. The prescotts are a prob, their hot, but they seem to handle the heat very well, Ive heard of many heat related problems, but still havnt heard a meltdown yet. Top that off, buy an intel proc, you can get a nice intel mobo, intel lan, intel integrated graphics (a excellant stable video for a corp/school considering video graphics mean nothing to them).


Problem is alot of people forget to clean there chips. So they do get warm. Watch in a year or so and you see Presscott chips fans burning out. Or computer shutting off. So face that fact please.

(So here are your options, AMD, this samller company that seems to be doing better but has this horrible past, or Intel, a well known large corp with a relativly good history in the stability and quality department. From this standpoint, the choice is much different than you would as a gamer, this is the situation producers like Dell, HP, Gateway, etc face. Maybe they are being toyed with alittle, but Intel holds the larger advantage at least for now. AMD needs to expand abit, make thier CPU's alittle more corparate friendly than powerful gaming processors, because in the real world, that is nothing. Doing all the complaining and sueing thier doing now is going to hurt them bad in the longrun, iring a huge company being a smaller company they are, thier going to get hell, and it may hurt intel alittle, but thier going to truely feel what hard times are.)


Face this ture Fact Both Amd and Intel made Mistakes. Both has good days and bad days. It like two frogs. Jumping over each other. One day Amd faster starting with k6, Intel P3, Athlon, P4, Athlon 64, Opteron Now Amd again with fx57 x2.

Sure sounds like Keman dont like the idea of Amd having some power. I can see it now Dell selling AMD computer.

Oh before you go Oh you only like Amd not Intel. well here my setup and you tell me which one I like better

Pro Star 8794 Laptop. Intel 3.4 EE L3 2mb cache 1gb of ram Dual 80 gig hard drives Radeon 9700 256mb ram dvd rw/cdrw

Amd 64 3000 2gb of ram Dual 200gb hard drives dual 80 gb hard dives one 160 gb hard drive total 720gb Radeon 9600 256 57x27x57 cdrw

I play both games on them.
June 29, 2005 9:13:52 AM

Keman is right that we need to look at this lawsuit using the perspective of regular joe computer user.

AMD has always had a poor reputation compared to Intel, simple as that. Even today when I talk to my computer technican friends, they all prefer Intel and argue that they are more reliable. EVEN THOUGH THAT AIN'T TRUE, all that goes to say is that's the image ppl have in their minds of AMD.

And businesses which would buy computers in bulk would prefer Intel because they were a bigger company. Businesses prefer reliabilty, stability and trust.

Also, if you actually compare prices of a Intel system and a AMD system for a business (a computer for internet, MS Word, and business applications) a AMD and a Intel system are both about the same price. And before I get flamed that a P4 is more expensive than an Athlon, remember that the Celeron CPUs are very cheap (less than 100 dollars). And also that Intel mobos have integrated graphcs, which helps lower the price of the system.

Anyways, I'm tired, and I hope I added some fuel to the debate. In a couple of years this lawsuit will end. But whatever the outcome, for me doesn't matter, I'll be using a CPU from whichever company builds the best one (hint hint, I'm no-one's fanboy).

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ofer987 on 06/29/05 05:14 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 29, 2005 9:32:40 AM

AMD should sue VIA for tarnishing their reputation.

People like Keman simply wouldn't have that sort of opinion if VIA hadn't been so half-assed.

---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."
June 29, 2005 10:03:21 AM

That's why we have this forum, so information can be shared and informed judgement can be made.

While KeMan emphasized on the average Joe's impressions of AMD products, he failed to mention about FDIV, 1.13 GHz and Camino. These recalls spoke well of Intel's products' reliability and stability, right?

On Cache and Bandwidth:
You do mean cash, and fan width goes to Intel right? - endyen 05
June 29, 2005 10:10:35 AM

Ofer987 Face the fact Intel has not had a squeaky clean reputation also. They had there problems

Stop with Intel More reliable. If I want a heater I buy Intel right now. Where my Amd 64 3000+ Max temp is Low 30c 86f Max 35c 105f. What Intel Low 50c 150f Max 185f Max 85c Now let think about AC bill and all that with 20 Intel computers vers 20 Amd computers. Can we say high cost eletric bills.

(And businesses which would buy computers in bulk would prefer Intel because they were a bigger company. Businesses prefer reliabilty, stability and trust.)

Funny I still sell more Amd stuff Why? eletric bills and speed And the ture fact is both amd and intel are stable and reliable. Buissness wants to save money. Amd will save them more money on the long run.

(Also, if you actually compare prices of a Intel system and a AMD system for a business (a computer for internet, MS Word, and business applications) a AMD and a Intel system are both about the same price. And before I get flamed that a P4 is more expensive than an Athlon, remember that the Celeron CPUs are very cheap (less than 100 dollars). And also that Intel mobos have integrated graphcs, which helps lower the price of the system.)

Face this fact you can get Amd or intel computers with onboard Grapics and sound cards. I have one on my Amd 64 3000+ or old Amd 1800

So please keep trying.
June 29, 2005 2:55:06 PM

You know what I find absolutely funny...

Just a little bit ago, Apple came out and declared they're migrating from IBM to Intel because IBM was producing chips that were too slow and hot for Apple's liking. They decide to go to Intel (I'm surprised this announcement didn't just kill off all AMD fanboys in one fell swoop).

Now, Apple never had ties to AMD or Intel, but decides based upon looking at both companies that working with Intel will benefit them more. Now why do you suppose that is? Oh yes, it must be Intel doing illegal practices. Definitely. No other explanation.

What most people fail to recognize is that AMD's non-chip part of the company sucks (and here I'm not talking flash). It's pretty clear their marketing is pretty poor and they really aren't helping their situation by coming out with what seem to be crybaby lawsuits. This is also ignoring the fact that if Dell suddenly sees an uptick in demand of 100,000 units, who do you think is more likely to be able to fill the order?

With the JIT strategy that most OEM's have gone to, it's very nice to do business with a company that has fabs in the double digits that can quickly increase/decrease production of needed parts in high volume.

Yes, AMD's building another fab (and taking out many many loans to do it, where as Intel typically builds with cash), but they still lack enough production capacity to supply the needs of the OEMs. And with the APAC region simply booming in terms of demand, this problem is only getting worse. And since Intel's converting/building more 300mm fabs and expanding production capability to come up with a package focused campaign, rather than solely chip, they're going to be getting even more margin on every computer sold (even if their ASP's for their chips drop).

You also can't ignore the fact that Intel and AMD seem to have switched business models with each other. AMD is providing the product that is better (for gamers) and is offering it at a premium price. Intel has gone with the lower performance, lower price product (the position that actually built AMD into the company it is today). AMD doesn't have the capacity or resources to be the industry leader. But apparently they think they do and it's all Intel's fault that they're not.

I find it most amusing that the largest customer of computer chips is the channel (small, independent companies...similar to mom & pop shops). If Intel maintains its market position through intimidation and fear, doesn't it seem a little difficult to maintain this across the channel (remember, their biggest customer)? Interesting no?

*AMD FANBOY SHIELD ON*

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
June 29, 2005 3:14:14 PM

I admit my post sounded like I was a fanboy, but many who replied are no better, because my post as mentioned is the real world outlook, maybe not exactly 100% performance per performance, stability per stability level. Ive talked to several higher companies, I used to work as a tech for our school, my job, the maintance who work there, its almost all the same, thats what they think.

Its issues that got brought up that blemished thier history, your saying if you were choosing between two cars, one being alittle cheaper, and you knew nothing about either, and "word on the street" was the cheaper one's company had a bad history of problems, you'd buy it? Many places don't want AMD for this reason, be it right or not, it's what happens. Stack on that, the proc my be cheaper for AMD, but as I mentioned and another mentioned, throw in that cheap, yet reliable integrated video, cheap integrated sound, integrated lan, etc. It's overall the better deal for the corparate user, and many see that.

The prescott may have a bad future ahead, maybe it will hold, we don't 100% know yet but it is doing well atm at a non-destructive stance, and relatively it's not going to be an issue for awhile, genally when a company or school mass buys computers, they don't go "hey, lets get 50-100 State of the art 3.0-38GHZ comps!" They get the cheaper bargain comps that are sub tech, last years, etc. So its more of the 1.8-2.8 area they'll be getting, Celeron-D's and northwoods, which have had a relatively good past. Stack all that off, and you have this company going slower than expected jump up and start a lawsuit with bigger company. AMD needs to wait abit for it's past to fade alittle more, because it's more of these rumors and past that is butt-screwing AMD, not its presant.

In all what I've been saying is that AMD is not in a good situation to be starting a lawsuit, this may be seen as a great thing to AMD supporters, but if AMD doesn't play this 100% right, thier going to end up in deep crap, and likely doing even worse. If one company goes down hill, the CPU market will destabilize, leading to crappy prices.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Keman on 06/29/05 11:19 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 29, 2005 6:31:00 PM

I wonder is THG going to chance tone of it's reviews articles and columns ?

:smile:

<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
June 29, 2005 10:07:02 PM

I really hope Intel gets what they deserve, and stop playing genco olive oil, and let others take a slice of the cake.

Actually guys, I just made some stuff:

<A HREF="http://www.cafepress.com/amd_lawsuit" target="_new">http://www.cafepress.com/amd_lawsuit&lt;/A>

Please give some feedback, guys.

I'm selling these at base prices, so I'm not making a cent out of this. Just making this to order some for myself (unless someone else has made something else)
June 29, 2005 10:22:56 PM

Post deleted by AtolSammeek
June 29, 2005 10:24:32 PM

Good one. What funny is I can Miroblast stuff like that on Coffee Mugs or Beer glasses.
June 29, 2005 10:25:29 PM

Only dumb people make mistakes not reading up on something before buying.
June 29, 2005 10:29:37 PM

Hi AtolSammeek. You are right that Prescotts are very warm. And that an AMD64 is runs very cool. I myself have a 3000+ Winchester socket 939 processor. It runs 37 degrees right now on stock cooling. So I understand what you are saying.

However I have to say this, I live in Toronto, and through my experience, I have seen many schools, universities (University of Toronto in particular) and many businesses USE Dell computers. Dell is a large distributor of computers, and many institutions and businesses buy Dell systems. Butt Dell only uses Intel CPUs. So what I am saying is: for AMD to succeed and have computers sell off with their processors, they need to:

1) Improve their ability to mass supply chips at a decent price to computer distributors
2) Capture deals with large computer distributors.
June 29, 2005 11:08:28 PM

News for you guys. This is not about A64s. It seems that an Intel rep told supermicro " It's a good thing you guys are going to be making opteron boards, because as soon as the first one roles out, our xeon chipsets, are going to be in tight supply, so you may not be able to get any."
June 29, 2005 11:15:52 PM

Quote:
I wonder is THG going to chance tone of it's reviews articles and columns ?

Personaly I'd doubt it, but who knows maybe one day. Looks to me like anandtech would <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/default.aspx?bid=228" target="_new"> agree</A> with this suit. I'm personaly susprised so many people in the tech community were so clueless as to what been going on over the years. It was painfully obvious to me and others too. I've seen people claim the reason Dell don't use AMD cpu's is cause they tend to be problematic like heat sinks poping off the cpu when you drop the computer off a desk. That retarded issue becomes long long resolved and then they find another lame excuse. Mind numbing really.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
June 29, 2005 11:16:18 PM

Lol, I love that statement. Unbelievable how desperate intel can be, but this really amazes me.
June 29, 2005 11:33:48 PM

After reading the whole suit, I was mostly amazed by the previous actions of Intel in the late 80s and early 90s. It seems that they show you a carrot and pull the rug out from under your feet. This is exactly what they did to Intergraph and we all know how that lawsuit turned out. Although it was an intellectual property suit, a fair amount of the evidence was about Intel demanding something (licenses for the clipper technology), not getting it, then retaliating by withholding something. (validation of a motherboard for use with Intel chips)

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...
June 30, 2005 12:54:18 AM

You know what bad Schmide. What intel did could of been use to make better chips. Lower cost chips. But no. They seem to be greedy company who wanted to become a Monopoly just like Pam Am tried in the 1966s.

I hope Amd Wins.

You know all if Amd was not around Intel would still be running 200mhz computers and I cant wait to see what Intel has to say if anything.
!