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Xbox 360 and PS3 weak cpu performance

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Anonymous
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June 30, 2005 1:10:27 PM

Anyone saw the article that was on anandtech's web page yesterday? They where explaining how weak both cpu(cell and xenon) actually where in single threaded performance. Apparantly they sat with a few developpers who said how those cpu where not what they want and that multithread was at least 3 years from now for games...They even said that xenon was about 1/3 of the performance of a A64 in single thread...

Now this article vanished today! that weird.
I knwo you guys dont liek to go there :wink: but heres the thread on anand's forum(no I dont have any reged acount there ;-) )
<A HREF="http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&t..." target="_new">Anands</A>

What you guys think? sony/ms wherent too happy?

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
Anonymous
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June 30, 2005 1:13:28 PM

Oh heres the article
<A HREF="http://forum.xbox365.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_top...;f=66;t=000578;p=1#000009" target="_new">Cached article</A>
So you dont have to go at anands forum

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
June 30, 2005 2:39:28 PM

Meh. Consoles are like 60% graphics, 30% CPU, and 10% sound. So long as the GPU portion rocks any lacklustre CPU will do.

:eek:  <font color=green>یί∫υєг ρђœŋίχ</font color=green> :eek: 
@ 192K -> 200,000 miles or bust!
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 30, 2005 2:56:36 PM

Still, havent you noticed how much the AI(usually) suck on console. GTA:SA is a good example, the bad guys are f***** dumb thansk to the PS2 port. They talk about it in the article, the AI and the physics need to be improved a lot and that will chunk up lots of cpu power, if they multi thread it would be ok tough

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
June 30, 2005 3:13:54 PM

Actually, for some odd reason I don't do much console gaming. (Gee, I wonder why...) What I do is mostly Nintendo-based since consoles have always sucked at serious games, but been great for cutesy wastes of time. (And Nintendo excels at cutesy wastes of time.)

If I want to play a <i>real</i> game, I go to my PC. (Well, or friends, pencil, dice, paper, and books for that good old RPG fun.)

But that's my point. Consoles have always been that way. Sure, developers hate it. They have for many more cycles than this one. But if you're going to mass produce an affordable system you can't give developers <i>everything</i> that they want.

So consoles will continue to be consoles, and PCs will continue to be better all around. Considering that PCs cost way more, this seems reasonable enough.

:eek:  <font color=green>یί∫υєг ρђœŋίχ</font color=green> :eek: 
@ 192K -> 200,000 miles or bust!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 30, 2005 3:26:12 PM

Nicely put! I agree that for 399$ you cant slap a P4840EE in there! Im totally with you about the console, my last one was a Super NES and I also had a NES w000t!
Still its always nice to go at a friend house and play some games four at the time! Just a different experience. Thats why I dont have a console i'd rather chill and my friends house than having them trash mine!! :wink:

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 30, 2005 3:26:15 PM

double!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by labbbby on 06/30/05 11:26 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 30, 2005 3:50:12 PM

Quote:
Still its always nice to go at a friend house and play some games four at the time!

That's what LAN parties and online multiplayer features are for. And you can do a lot better than four at a time on those. :) 

(I miss a good LAN party. It's been years for me.)

:eek:  <font color=green>یί∫υєг ρђœŋίχ</font color=green> :eek: 
@ 192K -> 200,000 miles or bust!
June 30, 2005 8:23:13 PM

This is what happens when they try to spit out the cheapest multi-core chips that they can before multy core is needed for games. Rumour has it that the revolution will use 2x 1.8ghz cpu's PowerPC cores and hopefully they will be real G5's and not the cut down p4ish powerpc's that are in the ps3 and xbox360.

The know-most-of-it-all formally known as BOBSHACK
a b à CPUs
July 3, 2005 12:35:19 AM

something tells me we need a mod..... to turn a pc completly into a xbox 360 that is a elite one (AMD FX-57?) or else hook up soem good components to the consol... it would be unfair in them multiplayer games as these would burn through the game like it was gas in gasous state
July 3, 2005 1:00:12 AM

Let me ask this though....Lets say Sony/MS tell ATI and Nvidia to build them a chip with double the budget they have now. Then they get CPU's made that have double or triple the budget as well. This new system would be the XBOX361 and PS3.1(or whatever) and its sold as the higher end model. It cuts no corners for anything and gives gamers what they want in a console. But these beasts cost $600-$700(and still sold at a loss)

If they gave us what we wanted, would we pay the price for it?

I dont mean this as an argument. I am not a huge console guy. but i know some people are HUGE into them. Would they drop $700 on a new system and another $100 for an extra controller and a game??

Maybe in the future they will have to make two versions of consoles to make people happy.

__________________________________________
Chaintech VNF3-250/A64 2800+/1GB(512x2) OCZ VX GOLD 2-2-2-5/BFG 6800GT/Thermaltake 420W/WD 200GB/Maxtor 300GB
July 3, 2005 1:03:45 AM

Isn't the 360 supposed to launch upwards of 500 to $600 anyway?

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
July 3, 2005 1:37:34 AM

....no, not 500-600.

What i know is 299Xbox 399PS3.

but still if they doubled the budget and didn't skimp(which people bitch about) and built a great system....would people pay nearly double the price? Maybe they would, i wouldn't.

__________________________________________
Chaintech VNF3-250/A64 2800+/1GB(512x2) OCZ VX GOLD 2-2-2-5/BFG 6800GT/Thermaltake 420W/WD 200GB/Maxtor 300GB
July 3, 2005 1:51:09 AM

I wouldn't, and I wanted a Xbox 1, but when they came out at Christmas, they were selling them for nearly $300 with one controller and one game, no memory card and most places were sold out.
So I did not get one :( 

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
July 6, 2005 3:55:13 PM

Quote:
If they gave us what we wanted, would we pay the price for it?

1) I sure wouldn't. It's bad enough that the new consoles are coming out as expensive as they are. I'm definately waiting for a price drop before I even bother with even just one of them.

2) It isn't just about a more expensive console. The real question is will <i>software developers</i> support two versions of the console? Likely, most won't.

The one huge advantage to producing console software is that the platform doesn't change. It's not like a PC where you have so many different pieces to support. And this is ten times worse if you use multithreaded code with different CPU speeds (which is exactly what we're heading towards with these new consoles) as a lot of bugs in multithreaded can stem from timing errors.

I don't think that many software developers would ever bother supporting two versions like that. And without good titles, what good is a console?

:eek:  <font color=green>یί∫υєг ρђœŋίχ</font color=green> :eek: 
@ 192K -> 200,000 miles or bust!
July 6, 2005 7:54:24 PM

It's just like any new product. The first try is going to have problems and cost twice as much as the second try. But thank goodness there are enough early adopters that "must have" these items, otherwise the companies wouldn't be able to continue producing them until a point where it's reasonable to purchase.

Specifically with consoles, games can be an issue, but you figure that by the time you buy a game (or two) and play it until you either
A) beat it
B) get bored
There will be lots of others out. And if you wait too long with the expectation of better games, you may end up with nothing :) . The Xbox still doesn't have a huge selection and only a few recent titles have been mildly exciting, as compared to the inital push (Xmen legends was a surprise to me).

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
July 7, 2005 1:14:26 PM

Quote:
It's just like any new product. The first try is going to have problems and cost twice as much as the second try. But thank goodness there are enough early adopters that "must have" these items, otherwise the companies wouldn't be able to continue producing them until a point where it's reasonable to purchase.

Consoles are actually rather different than normal in this regard. The first try is still much more heavily tested than most products because typically there's no way to fix them after market. So the problems are very minimal. (I'm afraid how much this will change as 'on-line' consoles become common.)

And with consoles the initial price to the manufacturer is almost unimportant. As far as I know, just about every console ever sold has initially been sold at a loss to the manufacturer. The console manufacturers make their money in licensing and their own software sales. <i>Eventually</i> the consoles become cheap enough to produce that they make a small profit there as well, but certainly not initially.

The actual price drop that comes several months after a console has been on the market is not because the consoles have become affordable to produce, but because the growth rate of the console's uptake has begun to taper off. The manufacturer needs to entice more customers to pick up their hardware or else they'll be losing growth on the profits from licensing and software. When the hype dies, the discounts begin. It has very little to do with production cost.

Quote:
Specifically with consoles, games can be an issue, but you figure that by the time you buy a game (or two) and play it until you either
A) beat it
B) get bored
There will be lots of others out.

There's a reason why I have a Game Cube but don't have an XBox or a PS2 yet. The games. I like Zelda. I like Metroid. And goddess save me, I like Mario. (I used to like Final Fantasy until it went all Final Sci-Fi instead of Fantasy, and then worse, went all on-line. I'm very heavily a single-player gamer. All of these online games just make me want to <i>not</i> buy the system.)

While occasionally I am tempted with the PS2's game selection, at this point I'm more hoping that the PS3 will be backward compatible as well. (At least to the PS2, but hopefully the PS1 as well so that I can pack it up and have one less console sitting around.) So then when I could afford the PS3, I'd also have a plethora of cheap PS2 games that I could pick up. If the PS3 isn't backward compatible, I may never buy it.

And the XBox game selection never impressed on me as being worth the expense of the console.

To me it's all about the titles. Will there be any that I look forward to? Will there be enough that I'm interested in to warrant the expense of the console? Almost all of my friends buy consoles with the same mentality. They buy based on the titles that they want, and if they don't have a sickening amount of disposable income, then they only buy the console(s) with the most titles that they know they'll enjoy. Almost no one that I talk to buys a console and hopes for some unknown interesting title to eventually come out.

Of course, YMMV.

<font color=red> :evil:  یί∫υєг ρђœŋίχ :evil: 
<i>The devil is in the details.</i></font color=red>
@ 192K -> 200,000 miles or bust!
July 7, 2005 5:48:07 PM

I did some more refelecting on this subject and have kind of a new viewpoint.

I actually did something different with the new consoles rather than the past generations. In the past I've been pretty quick to get the console and grab games one at a time (due to cost). I almost always waited for the first little price break or sale, though. This time, I picked up an Xbox, PS2, and a Gamecube all within the last year. I've been playing other people's systems, but really just recently got my own. Now, there are tons of games out, gamefaqs is insanely populated (for those oh so frustrating points that need pieces of help...as well as reviews), and I get to buy my systems for $100 and the games for $15-$20 instead of $40-$50.

Because of self control (the clear opposite of our consumer-based market), I am paying a fraction of the cost for the same product and experiencing the same level of enjoyment (if not more).

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
July 7, 2005 11:26:44 PM

I take a dump on this thread.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
July 8, 2005 12:34:35 AM

oh woooooo stop! That is MY thread, dont you dare taking a dump!Imma call wingding to take care of you!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
!