System 11 Reliability

[bill]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Ok, I am writing this because I have an EAPTM and a Radical! and they
have been fun and very reliable.

I also have a TSPP and it is very reliable, as it should be since it
has never seen an arcade.

Then I got a WCS94 and while being a very fun game, it just keeps
breaking. The ball is either not spinning, or lights go out, or fuses
blow,etc...for every 1 hour of game play, I have 2 hours of fixing. Or
hauling to the repair shop at 75-100 bucks a whack.

Did I just get a turd ?? Are the WPC games less reliable than the
system 11 ? Obviously they have a little less going on as no DMD.

Anyway, I was thinking of trying to trade my WCS94 for a system 11 game
as it may be more reliable, at least in my experience.

Bottom line, I am not very good at repairs and I know things break time
to time, but are system 11's in general pretty bullet proof ? Or is it
just different game to game ?

Bill

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I am afraid that I will turn this thread into "Who is one of the weird
twisted folks" as I hear EXACTLY what you are saying. Fixing is as
fun as playing.

Bob

John Wart, jr wrote:
> WPC and Sys 11 can be very reliable. I have several WPC games that have
> been playing flawlessly for over a year, requiring only occasional bulb
> changes as a few burned out.
>
> However, these games that are playing so well have been completely gone
> through. Playfields out of the cabinet, completely torn down, every assy
> cleaned and rebuilt, every switch tweaked, board work done if necessary
> etc. They play better that way, and they seem to be more reliable. I
> realize not everyone is willing to go to that level with their machines,
> but I'm one of the weird, twisted folk who enjoy working on the machines
> as much if not more than playing them
>
> --john
>
>
>
> -
>
> http://www.myhomegameroom.com
>
>
> Bill wrote:
> > Ok, I am writing this because I have an EAPTM and a Radical! and they
> > have been fun and very reliable.
> >
> > I also have a TSPP and it is very reliable, as it should be since it
> > has never seen an arcade.
> >
> > Then I got a WCS94 and while being a very fun game, it just keeps
> > breaking. The ball is either not spinning, or lights go out, or fuses
> > blow,etc...for every 1 hour of game play, I have 2 hours of fixing. Or
> > hauling to the repair shop at 75-100 bucks a whack.
> >
> > Did I just get a turd ?? Are the WPC games less reliable than the
> > system 11 ? Obviously they have a little less going on as no DMD.
> >
> > Anyway, I was thinking of trying to trade my WCS94 for a system 11 game
> > as it may be more reliable, at least in my experience.
> >
> > Bottom line, I am not very good at repairs and I know things break time
> > to time, but are system 11's in general pretty bullet proof ? Or is it
> > just different game to game ?
> >
> > Bill
> >

 

[bill]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I disagree.... I like to play much more than fix. I am probably in
the minority.

Playing a game and having something break is just more frustrating than
trying to hold a turd in on a stairstepper... sorry, that was my
Larry the Cable guy quote for the day

Bill

 

[frenchy]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Your WCS94 sounds like a lemon, or it was in sad shape from neglect
when you got it and needed a lot of fixing begore you started playing
it. Or your repairman is a clown. Once I work the bugs out any game
(even a Gottlieb early SS) I generally have few problems with any of
them. WPC needs a few tweaks (mandatory ones, not optional ones) to
make them pretty bulletproof but mainly it's the old reset bugaboo and
getting the controlled GI and it's connectors straightened out.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I know the repair guy, and he is not a clown. But, he does only do the
repairs that are pointed out to him. So, if you go in and say I have a
problem with A, he fixes A. He tells you to play before you leave and
let him know any other issues, but as we all know, not every issue
shows up every play of the game. He also backs his repairs 100% for 30
days. He will go through a game and get it working 100%, but that gets
pretty expensive.

I also have seen the game, and I would lean toward the neglect end of
things, although the cosmetic condition is pretty nice. The guy who
owned it was definitely not a pinball guy and sold it to Bill via eBay.
Before that, my guess is that it was a route game or an import that
was mechanically neglected for some period of time. I also know that
Bill was not all that familiar with the game when he bought it, and he
may be "discovering" issues that have been there since he picked up the
game, but he did not know the game well enough to know the issue.

I think that the game may very well be more suitable for someone with
the time, inclination and skills to mechanically rebuild it as John
described. The beauty of the Radical and Elvira Bill has is that they
are fairly simple games, at least as playfield toys go. The beauty of
the TSPP is that it is complex, but a hell of a lot newer, and has
never been on location. Compared to the older games, WCS 94 has a lot
more moving parts, optos that can get dirty and a more complex board
system. They can certainly be made reliable, but making them that way
once they have been neglected for a while requires some skill.

No knock on Bill, who is a great guy, but that type of complexity is
probably not within the realm of what he is willing to try to repair or
rebuild. I won't say that Bill can not do it (he is a very bright
guy), but it is not a priority. I know it is outside of what I am
willing to try to repair, which is one of the reasons why I own older
machines. If I had the time to learn how to fix these machines, I
would own a few and I would be fixing Bill's for free.

So, my thinking is that in Bill's particular situation a mechanically
simpler game may be a better bet. Someone with a System 11 or other
earlier game and greater techical skills may be able to work a swap
that is good for both parties. My guess is that the WCS 94 is probably
very close to fully working (after the various repairs Bill paid for)
and it would probably be a very nice machine for someone who is a
little more mechanically inclined.

So, other South Florida guys might think about working with Bill on a
swap. He is a good guy, very honorable and helpful. For whatever it
is worth, I would personally buy from Bill site unseen, based on his
word alone. I can't say that about all that many people. Of course, my
opinion is just an opinion, so talk to Bill and make your own
decisions.

Ron



frenchy wrote:
> Your WCS94 sounds like a lemon, or it was in sad shape from neglect
> when you got it and needed a lot of fixing begore you started playing
> it. Or your repairman is a clown. Once I work the bugs out any game
> (even a Gottlieb early SS) I generally have few problems with any of
> them. WPC needs a few tweaks (mandatory ones, not optional ones) to
> make them pretty bulletproof but mainly it's the old reset bugaboo and
> getting the controlled GI and it's connectors straightened out.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

WPC and Sys 11 can be very reliable. I have several WPC games that have
been playing flawlessly for over a year, requiring only occasional bulb
changes as a few burned out.

However, these games that are playing so well have been completely gone
through. Playfields out of the cabinet, completely torn down, every assy
cleaned and rebuilt, every switch tweaked, board work done if necessary
etc. They play better that way, and they seem to be more reliable. I
realize not everyone is willing to go to that level with their machines,
but I'm one of the weird, twisted folk who enjoy working on the machines
as much if not more than playing them

--john



-

http://www.myhomegameroom.com


Bill wrote:
> Ok, I am writing this because I have an EAPTM and a Radical! and they
> have been fun and very reliable.
>
> I also have a TSPP and it is very reliable, as it should be since it
> has never seen an arcade.
>
> Then I got a WCS94 and while being a very fun game, it just keeps
> breaking. The ball is either not spinning, or lights go out, or fuses
> blow,etc...for every 1 hour of game play, I have 2 hours of fixing. Or
> hauling to the repair shop at 75-100 bucks a whack.
>
> Did I just get a turd ?? Are the WPC games less reliable than the
> system 11 ? Obviously they have a little less going on as no DMD.
>
> Anyway, I was thinking of trying to trade my WCS94 for a system 11 game
> as it may be more reliable, at least in my experience.
>
> Bottom line, I am not very good at repairs and I know things break time
> to time, but are system 11's in general pretty bullet proof ? Or is it
> just different game to game ?
>
> Bill
>

 

[bill]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks Ron ! You pretty well hit it on the head. Well, except for me
being a bright guy, I think you stepped over the line

No, I would not knock my repair guy either. Actually, just got him on
the phone with him to set up a drop off again.

So the game will be 100 percent working within a week or two. It's just
that friggin ball ! Once it's repaired, it will be fine. At which
time I will try for a swap. Then I will start playing it again and
have fun and not want to get rid of it

Bill