Sockect M2 vs 939

Hi all,

I am in the process of seriously considering my options in a new pc with the view to spend around 4.5k x2 AUD on 2 entire new systems (mine and wifes).

What I would really like is some serious advice, from people that I personally know I trust, if it would be worth waiting for the release of the socket M2 and DDR2 support?

I know the release dates Q2 next year, but supporting DDR2 and the new socket provides an upgrade path, which is the reason for my thinking. (i got caught with SDRAM just before DDR become mainstream, well intel mainstream anyway).

So your advice on this would be greatly appreciated, and I will be sure to post finally system specs for valuable comments just before purchase time.

Thank you all

"" Society is to blame ""
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  1. And what are you intending to do on these PC's then?

    BTW, is that 4.5k each? (Anyone know the UK or US amount?)

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  2. My wife operates a modelling agency that involves a great deal of photo editing, and also some video editing/encoding.
    For business reasons its better if both rigs support this. I myself mainly game, whenever I can get out of helping with the other stuff, but I am often running more than 2 or 3 things at once and changing between tasks.

    The 4.5k would roughly equate to around 3.4k US and yes this is per pc

    "" Society is to blame ""
  3. Could you please send pics :tongue:

    ASUS P5WD2 Premium
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  4. hehe, of the models I am assuming, not of the new rigs... as most of the models are aged between 5 and 17, I dont think so, plus it would be very unprofessional, nah nah.

    But just for your drooling imagination, there ceratainly is a few stunningly gorgeous models that would be VERY interesting to know in a few more years :)

    Cheers

    "" Society is to blame ""
  5. Thanks for the advice Wusy.

    How accurate do you think their release roadmap is going to be?

    Do you think Q2 2006 may actually turn out to be Q3 2007?

    "" Society is to blame ""
  6. Well, being 19 I still can have my eye on those 17yo's! :lol:

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  7. Im purely speculating, but I bet AMD will stay on track with the migration to DDR2. Some of the top RAM experts are now telling me that the industry is moving towards DDR2 and not just talking about it anymore. This is a different tune than I was hearing a couple of months ago.

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    <A HREF="http://valid.x86-secret.com/records.php?PHPSESSID=792e8f49d5d9b8a4d1ad6f40ca029756" target="_new">#2 CPUZ</A>
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  8. Lucky Bastard! Im afraid that looking at 17 year olds would make me a dirty old bastard :tongue:

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  9. We are getting by with what we have now, (just they are p3's) but we are about to launch another advertising campain, so it depends on the volume we recieve from that.

    I am leaning towards the wait, especially after your opinion, and depending on volume its more than likely we could struggle through for another 6 months, but if they push the release date back and it ends up being 12-18 months before we see the new socket I dont know that I want to wait that long.

    It kind of ends up being a catch 22 though, once you start waiting, you have to see it through, otherwise we should have just gone ahead previously.

    "" Society is to blame ""
  10. You would just be a dirty bastard... ;) in a few more years you become a dirty old bastard...

    <pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
    And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
    So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
  11. Hehe, I guess you could, But sorry Ned, I will not be posting any pics for such personal gratification :)

    "" Society is to blame ""
  12. Which makes the wait for DDR2 rather important for any future proofing, because DDR is going the way of SD

    "" Society is to blame ""
  13. lol

    "" Society is to blame ""
  14. Fine, don't help him anymore guys!

    Haha, I'm joking :lol: ...or am I? :tongue:

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  15. Your such a prevert! ;)

    <pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
    And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
    So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
  16. Sorry to disappoint Ned. Its a question of professionalism. Maybe visit www.thehun.com (or any other favourites you may have) to cheer yourself up. I'm sure you have them well bookmarked. Its all good

    "" Society is to blame ""
  17. Does everyone know about the hun???? I thought those were my babes. ;( Sluts, every one of them.

    <pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
    And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
    So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
  18. Just to clarify I was joking - I don't need pics, I have the real thing

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  19. The move to DDR2 has held me off so far also, but one thing to keep in mind is that even after AMD goes to DDR2, the MOBOs supporting DDR arent going to be left behind. RAM prices have been very low, but thats coming to an end soon .

    ASUS P5WD2 Premium
    Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
    XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz

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  20. Is there any reason why you need to buy both systems at the same time? Would it make sense to buy a system now using the current "cutting edge" technology and at a later date buy another one using the current "cutting edge" technology?

    Replace your wife's computer now and at a later date replace it again and pass her "old" one on to you.

    This would give you addition capacity (breathing room) and give you an opportunity to refine your specs since you have experience with current tech in your application.
  21. I would just buy now. Get to X2 AMD systems and call it a day. DDR2 isn't gonna bring that much of a performance improvement. They aren't P4 the AMD's chips aren't bandwidth hungry. As for upgrade path, if your using p3 now and the performance is decent. I doubt u having the X2 system for like 3+ years will make that much of a difference. The improvement u will see from going to a P3 to an X2 will be more than x10!
  22. Well socket M2 migh bring more than DDR2 too the table. THe new ODM might be significant, it should be able to handle more memory, faster and probably better. Also the Opteron's socket has some 1200 pins, rumors are that it will include On die PCIe...
    And maybe it will bring more to the table in the future, who knows.
    IMO its not that clear cut, I second the suggestion of buying one now and wait for the other!

    Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
  23. The part about the opteron's don't apply here cause he is not looking at one of those. As for faster and extra memory, I think a current 939 board would be more than fast enough for his needs.

    The only thing I agreed with was your last statement were buying one now and the other one later would be a good idea.
  24. I mentionned the opteron because there's not that much specific info on exactly what M2 will and will not bring. Why would the opteron get 1200 pin and the A64 get 940(thats what I understood). And why would a WS/Server need integrated PCIe and not a desktop???
    Anyway I thought Id mention it!

    Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
  25. good point not sure myself. I can see the reason for the opteron getting the DDR2, cause with multiple cores ie 4 or more. I can see them being bandwidth limited. but on a Dual core cpu not as much. As for intergrated PCIe, well have to see if that actually brings any kind of improvements if any.
  26. So, you are currently using P111s, and worrying about upgrade path?
    I am sorry, but that just does not compute. You are 5 years out of date now. If you buy X2 setups today, it will take 6 years to get that far behind again. If you wait a year, your systems will still be out of date as badly in 2011.
    You have already waited 2 years too long.
  27. The reason for concern over an upgrade path is because the current systems were purchased at the time of the P4 introduction and the controversial and overly expensive Rambus.

    The advice recieved at the time was to go with the P3's, so accepting this advice and 14k later there was never any upgrade path.

    Business dictates that the computers had to pay for themselves and although upgrades would have been easy to factor into the budget, complete replacement was not.

    Its because of this that upgrade path is important, I dont want to get caught again right from the start with no upgrade path and have to miss an entire generation or 2 because to upgrade requires a new pc, not just components, as it has for the last 3+ years

    "" Society is to blame ""
  28. Just because you have the real thing, doesnt mean you dont need pics, nothing wrong with needing pics ;)

    "" Society is to blame ""
  29. Why do you think ram prices are going rise? What sort of price rises are oyu expecting?

    "" Society is to blame ""
  30. I guess theres no good reason why we cant get one now and one later. That would probably allow a greater ease and flexibility in waiting for the new socket.

    I suppose my thinking was that it was just easier to buy two at once and have them both spec'd the same.

    But maybe not, with no discernable advantage to it.

    "" Society is to blame ""
  31. One now and one later means you get to squable now about who gets the new PC and argue later too! ;)

    <pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
    And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
    So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
  32. Well there is that, she has the greater need, but I have the greater WANT.
    Games are important to

    "" Society is to blame ""
  33. RAM prices are goign to rise for DDR sticks, and goign to fall for DDR2. This is a result of general economics, most specifically relating to Supply and Demmand. Right now, RAM manufacturers are in the process of ramping down DDR production and they re-fab their plants to produce DDR2 modules. As a result, in the short term (1 year time span), the dammand for DDR memory should remain relatively constant from now, but the available supply of modules will decrease. Thus the price increase.
  34. Actually, they will push the market as high and as soon as they can. They already leaked their intent, the wheels are in motion. DDR will rise along with crude oil, with a thinly veiled smile, wink nudge nudge from Bush and Co, Bill Gates, and Osama Enterpizes! ;)

    <pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
    And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
    So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
  35. Oh, OK, That makes sense. I was thinking that you meant there was going to be an accross the board price rise on ram, due to some reason or another.

    God I can remember when it was $100 a meg.

    If I only purchase one system I would max it out, with the 4 gig of ram, I believe

    "" Society is to blame ""
  36. As with Causeican, it is a matter of professionalism - You know I can't :evil:

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  37. That info is coming from some of the top people in the RAM market. Its a long story, and the CPU forum got flooded for a couple of weeks with one my OC rants. Trust me! [/BANDWIDTH WR] :tongue:

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  38. DDR2 is on the way back up in price.

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  39. Can you see AMD having the same complications with their move to DDR2 or do you think that they will have learned enough prior to the change?


    "" Society is to blame ""
  40. I agree. I'm just curious if they will have to go through the same learning curve that intel faced or if they would benefit from Intel's experiences?

    "" Society is to blame ""
  41. AS RichPLS said though(more or less) with AMD taking up the DDR2 flag and bringing main stream uniform use, we should see a fall in prices?

    "" Society is to blame ""
  42. Not really. Ram makers dont seem to follow any ryhm or reason to price changes. It's just cyclical.
    It's actually hard for them to make a buck at today's prices. They have been in thier usual price war for a while. Now they need a little time to get the red out.
    If the norm happens, expect an OEM stick of 512 to hit $100.
  43. >The reason for concern over an upgrade path is because the
    >current systems were purchased at the time of the P4
    >introduction and the controversial and overly expensive
    >Rambus.
    >The advice recieved at the time was to go with the P3's, so
    > accepting this advice and 14k later there was never any
    >upgrade path.

    And yet you did exactly the right thing: you bought the better and far cheaper platform of the 2. If you had bought P4s instead, its not like you would have had a very credible upgrade path today either, being limited to 2 GHz P4s, or maybe some Celerons (FSB and chipset limitation). The money you saved on NOT getting an early P4+RDRAM would buy you half a dozen new motherboards anyhow.

    To get back to your original question: there is no point in waiting. There is always something better around the corner, youll end up waiting forever. And of all things worth waiting for, DDR2 for the K8 really doesnt score high on my list. It trades bandwith for latency, something that barely seems to improve performance on the P4 and for K8, the difference I suspect will be even more neglectable for anything but top binning ram modules. A faster speedgrade would make a bigger difference, and I dont assume you will postpone your purchase for any faster speedgrade on the horizon ? because youll end up waiting for at least a few decades.

    As for all those industry insiders saying "DDR2 is the future"... pff. Of course DDR2 volumes are picking up, you can hardly buy a decent P4 or PM based system with anything else. And once AMD moves to it (which btw I anticipate will take longer than is being predicted here) the shift will be almost complete, but who really cares ? I can still even get *EDO RAM* for my 10+ yr pentium systems from my local shop and/or ebay for next to nothing. DDR 1 will be around far longer than the computers you are about to purchase (and probably you wont even care since you will be maxing them out with 4 GB each), so who cares what analysists say will be the future ?

    (btw, didnt they once say the same thing about RDRAM too, and about Itanium, MMX..?)

    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
  44. Thankyou P4man, I really do appreciate your comments and the valid arguments made, as I do all comments made. Thankyou all.

    Wasnt M2 also to support greater than 4gb mem address? Regardless, I am still very interested in the M2 socket but just as thats about to be released what else will be only just around corner and see more waiting ensure.

    I shall atleast purchase one pc very soon, if not both depending on the deals I can get. Above all else, I just want 1 causeican :)

    I will post specs for final thoughts and comments if anyone is interested after a bit more research.


    "" Society is to blame ""
  45. >Wasnt M2 also to support greater than 4gb mem address?

    Not sure about M2, but S939 should allow for for more than 4GB if you really need it. It may cost a small fortune, but I see no reason why shouldnt be able to install 4x 2GB dimms (or even 4x4GB dimms if and when they become available as unregistered).

    That said, if you are really looking at that much memory, I would consider using registered ECC ram, and therefore spend some more on opterons rather than A64s. Yes, it will cost more (but not that much considering the cost of that much RAM in the first place) and yes, it is slightly slower, but those are small prices to pay for the increased stability and ease of mind. A minor added benefit is that S940 will likely be supported for a longer time than S939 (I think AMD promised to produce parts for S940 for at least 5 more years), and you might see S940/opteron speedgrades that you will never see for S939. And while you are at it.. dual socket opteron boards arent that expensive either, so you could consider getting a 2 socket board and populating it with 2 single core opteron 2xxs, or a single dual core opteron and upgrade to 4 cores later. This also gives you more DIMM modules (typically 8) allowing further/cheaper RAM upgrades.

    Just thinking out loud, not many ppl care about, let alone need more than 4 GB ram...

    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
  46. Since upgrade path seems to be your primary concern would it make sense to lease a computer through one of the major distributors?

    The advantages are:
    1. A new computer with current technology at end of the lease. (No need to spend time researching current technology etc...)
    2. Tech support: Generally speaking business tech support is good to excellent.
    3. Warranty: Something breaks, someone comes and fixes it minimizing downtime (Dependant on Warranty purchased)

    Disadvantages:
    1. Costs more
    2. Computer systems limited to leasing company's selection (With Dell you will NOT get an AMD based computer)
  47. Nice idea. Since at least one of the comps is for business use, you could do a short lease, with "someone" doing a buy out at the end. Then you could be leasing only one rig at a time. Not that the business would actually need the latest tech. hint hint.

    Oh, by the way, most of the small shops are set up to do leasing.

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by endyen on 08/16/05 03:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  48. "we should see a fall in prices?"

    We have seen the lowest prices that we are going to see on DDR2. They are going up.


    ASUS P5WD2 Premium
    Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
    XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz

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  49. The lease idea is very good suggestion if he is in the correct situation. If he is here in the states that is a big tax write-off

    ASUS P5WD2 Premium
    Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
    XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz

    <A HREF="http://valid.x86-secret.com/records.php?PHPSESSID=792e8f49d5d9b8a4d1ad6f40ca029756" target="_new">#2 CPUZ</A>
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