TECH: HH 4-digit display problem

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On my Haunted House, the four digit display will not show the digit "1" in
any of the four places. I have replaced Z26 on the MPU board and also
replaced Z3 (digit driver) on the display itself. I ohmed out the digit
driver ckt too. I swapped a four digit display from my Sinbad and it worked
fine with the "1" showing up. Does anyone have any ideas where to look
next?

Also, I did the ground mods suggested in marvin3m but am having trouble with
the 6 digit displays flickering from time to time. The guide says to tie
the two grounds together display boards. I found the main ground right away
but am not seeing the second ground. Any tips on this?

thanks,
Eric

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I just went and put the non-working 4 digit display in my Sinbad and the "1"
digit comes in ok on that machine. Now I am starting to think connector
problems maybe?

"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
news:SyfZe.13077$L45.2607@fe07.lga...
> On my Haunted House, the four digit display will not show the digit "1" in
> any of the four places. I have replaced Z26 on the MPU board and also
> replaced Z3 (digit driver) on the display itself. I ohmed out the digit
> driver ckt too. I swapped a four digit display from my Sinbad and it
worked
> fine with the "1" showing up. Does anyone have any ideas where to look
> next?
>
> Also, I did the ground mods suggested in marvin3m but am having trouble
with
> the 6 digit displays flickering from time to time. The guide says to tie
> the two grounds together display boards. I found the main ground right
away
> but am not seeing the second ground. Any tips on this?
>
> thanks,
> Eric
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Yup - that was my first though.
Dem steenkin edge connectors!

-- Ed


"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
news:YWfZe.13079$L45.1749@fe07.lga...
>I just went and put the non-working 4 digit display in my Sinbad and the
>"1"
> digit comes in ok on that machine. Now I am starting to think connector
> problems maybe?
>
> "Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
> news:SyfZe.13077$L45.2607@fe07.lga...
>> On my Haunted House, the four digit display will not show the digit "1"
>> in
>> any of the four places. I have replaced Z26 on the MPU board and also
>> replaced Z3 (digit driver) on the display itself. I ohmed out the digit
>> driver ckt too. I swapped a four digit display from my Sinbad and it
> worked
>> fine with the "1" showing up. Does anyone have any ideas where to look
>> next?
>>
>> Also, I did the ground mods suggested in marvin3m but am having trouble
> with
>> the 6 digit displays flickering from time to time. The guide says to tie
>> the two grounds together display boards. I found the main ground right
> away
>> but am not seeing the second ground. Any tips on this?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks Ed. Do you know if I can use crimp-on connectors with the IDC
plastic housing? I know I'll have to "double up" some of the connectors
thoguh.

thanks,
Eric

"GPE" <See_my_website_for_email@cox.net> wrote in message
news:39hZe.19237$tB5.10179@okepread06...
> Yup - that was my first though.
> Dem steenkin edge connectors!
>
> -- Ed
>
>
> "Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
> news:YWfZe.13079$L45.1749@fe07.lga...
> >I just went and put the non-working 4 digit display in my Sinbad and the
> >"1"
> > digit comes in ok on that machine. Now I am starting to think connector
> > problems maybe?
> >
> > "Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
> > news:SyfZe.13077$L45.2607@fe07.lga...
> >> On my Haunted House, the four digit display will not show the digit "1"
> >> in
> >> any of the four places. I have replaced Z26 on the MPU board and also
> >> replaced Z3 (digit driver) on the display itself. I ohmed out the
digit
> >> driver ckt too. I swapped a four digit display from my Sinbad and it
> > worked
> >> fine with the "1" showing up. Does anyone have any ideas where to look
> >> next?
> >>
> >> Also, I did the ground mods suggested in marvin3m but am having trouble
> > with
> >> the 6 digit displays flickering from time to time. The guide says to
tie
> >> the two grounds together display boards. I found the main ground right
> > away
> >> but am not seeing the second ground. Any tips on this?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Eric
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.

df

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Check out the connector section again on Clay's site. He lists the
proper crimp connector to use in the IDC housing. It works real slick.

As far as your flickering problem, I just grounded the aux. light board
and that took care of the bleed over from the backbox lighting that was
causing the flickering in my displays.

I was missing an upper row on one display of my HH and it was a broken
wire at he display it's self. I found it by using the schematics and
tracing it out.

Good luck, Dave

Eric wrote:

> Thanks Ed. Do you know if I can use crimp-on connectors with the IDC
> plastic housing? I know I'll have to "double up" some of the connectors
> thoguh.
>
> thanks,
> Eric
>
> "GPE" <See_my_website_for_email@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:39hZe.19237$tB5.10179@okepread06...
>
>>Yup - that was my first though.
>>Dem steenkin edge connectors!
>>
>>-- Ed
>>
>>
>>"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
>>news:YWfZe.13079$L45.1749@fe07.lga...
>>
>>>I just went and put the non-working 4 digit display in my Sinbad and the
>>>"1"
>>>digit comes in ok on that machine. Now I am starting to think connector
>>>problems maybe?
>>>
>>>"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
>>>news:SyfZe.13077$L45.2607@fe07.lga...
>>>
>>>>On my Haunted House, the four digit display will not show the digit "1"
>>>>in
>>>>any of the four places. I have replaced Z26 on the MPU board and also
>>>>replaced Z3 (digit driver) on the display itself. I ohmed out the
>
> digit
>
>>>>driver ckt too. I swapped a four digit display from my Sinbad and it
>>>
>>>worked
>>>
>>>>fine with the "1" showing up. Does anyone have any ideas where to look
>>>>next?
>>>>
>>>>Also, I did the ground mods suggested in marvin3m but am having trouble
>>>
>>>with
>>>
>>>>the 6 digit displays flickering from time to time. The guide says to
>
> tie
>
>>>>the two grounds together display boards. I found the main ground right
>>>
>>>away
>>>
>>>>but am not seeing the second ground. Any tips on this?
>>>>
>>>>thanks,
>>>>Eric
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.

Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the MPU
"strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven) digits fast
enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single digit?

thanks,
Eric
"Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
> hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.
>
> df
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

logic probe

Eric wrote:
> Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
>
> Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the MPU
> "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven) digits fast
> enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single digit?
>
> thanks,
> Eric
> "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
>>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.
>>
>>df
>>
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

!!!!! Be careful!

(Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote

> logic probe




>
> Eric wrote:
> > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
> >
> > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the MPU
> > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven) digits fast
> > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single digit?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Eric
> > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
> >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.
> >>
> >>df
> >>
> >
> >
> >

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thats what I was kind of thinking; a logic probe and +42V is a bad
combination.

Am I correct in assuming that the MPU "pulses" each digit quickly in order
to handle all 4 digits on one data bus? Any way just to isolate one digit?

thanks,
Eric

"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:dh800i0t7m@enews1.newsguy.com...
> !!!!! Be careful!
>
> (Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
>
> "David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote
>
> > logic probe
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Eric wrote:
> > > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the
MPU
> > > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven) digits
fast
> > > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single
digit?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Eric
> > > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
> > >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.
> > >>
> > >>df
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I haven't even messed with a Sys 80 in quite some
time, and I'm not even sure it has a display test....

On WMS, and DE for example, you put the game in
display test. Get to the test that lights every _segment_,
then you can check all the lines for activity.

I don't recall this being possible on GTB, but that's
the best way.

Did you check the connectors yet? It's almost
always the issue in these games.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************






"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message news:MNQZe.7$wg7.0@fe06.lga...
> Thats what I was kind of thinking; a logic probe and +42V is a bad
> combination.
>
> Am I correct in assuming that the MPU "pulses" each digit quickly in order
> to handle all 4 digits on one data bus? Any way just to isolate one digit?
>
> thanks,
> Eric
>
> "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
> news:dh800i0t7m@enews1.newsguy.com...
> > !!!!! Be careful!
> >
> > (Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)
> >
> > --
> > Fred
> > TX
> > CARGPB#8
> > ******************
> >
> >
> > "David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote
> >
> > > logic probe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Eric wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the
> MPU
> > > > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven) digits
> fast
> > > > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single
> digit?
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Eric
> > > > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> > > >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
> > > >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.
> > > >>
> > > >>df
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks for the tip Fred. I was leaning toward connector issues myself
because the display works in Sinbad just fine, I was just curious on how to
test the chip (that darn engineer in me). It will probably be a few days
until I work on the connectors now since I started digging into my TZ lamp
matrix column problem. Boy, I can't get 4 games to work all the time, how
do the guys with 20 machines do it?


"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:dh9vbm0283d@enews2.newsguy.com...
> I haven't even messed with a Sys 80 in quite some
> time, and I'm not even sure it has a display test....
>
> On WMS, and DE for example, you put the game in
> display test. Get to the test that lights every _segment_,
> then you can check all the lines for activity.
>
> I don't recall this being possible on GTB, but that's
> the best way.
>
> Did you check the connectors yet? It's almost
> always the issue in these games.
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
news:MNQZe.7$wg7.0@fe06.lga...
> > Thats what I was kind of thinking; a logic probe and +42V is a bad
> > combination.
> >
> > Am I correct in assuming that the MPU "pulses" each digit quickly in
order
> > to handle all 4 digits on one data bus? Any way just to isolate one
digit?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Eric
> >
> > "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
> > news:dh800i0t7m@enews1.newsguy.com...
> > > !!!!! Be careful!
> > >
> > > (Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Fred
> > > TX
> > > CARGPB#8
> > > ******************
> > >
> > >
> > > "David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote
> > >
> > > > logic probe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric wrote:
> > > > > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like
the
> > MPU
> > > > > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven)
digits
> > fast
> > > > > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single
> > digit?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks,
> > > > > Eric
> > > > > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had
a
> > > > >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display
problems.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>df
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Yes, they do have a multiplexed segment bus and use individual digit
strobes. You can isolate the digit drive signals at the connector. You
should see these at pins 2, 3, 5 and 6 for the digits left to right.

As always - suspect that edge connector first....

-- Ed




"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
news:MNQZe.7$wg7.0@fe06.lga...
> Thats what I was kind of thinking; a logic probe and +42V is a bad
> combination.
>
> Am I correct in assuming that the MPU "pulses" each digit quickly in order
> to handle all 4 digits on one data bus? Any way just to isolate one
> digit?
>
> thanks,
> Eric
>
> "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
> news:dh800i0t7m@enews1.newsguy.com...
>> !!!!! Be careful!
>>
>> (Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)
>>
>> --
>> Fred
>> TX
>> CARGPB#8
>> ******************
>>
>>
>> "David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote
>>
>> > logic probe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Eric wrote:
>> > > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the
> MPU
>> > > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven)
>> > > digits
> fast
>> > > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single
> digit?
>> > >
>> > > thanks,
>> > > Eric
>> > > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > >
>> > >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had a
>> > >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display problems.
>> > >>
>> > >>df
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

OK, I replaced the IDC connectors with crimp-on connectors and it didn't fix
the problem (Darn it, nothings easy for me!)

Anyway, on the original HH 4 digit display, the digit "1" will not appear in
any of the digits, but the segments are good for all other numbers. I
replaced the 6118 digit chip (Z3) on the 4 digit display and replaced Z26 on
the MPU.

I swapped in my 4 digit display from my Sinbad and the "1" digit shows up,
but it is much fainter than the other number digits and "flutters" (IE it
doesn't stay on constantly, just on and off very fast).

I am starting to think to go back to the MPU. I am thinking Z22 possibly
could be a source of problems. I am going to need to spend some time with
the schematics in any case.

If you have a suggestion though, I open for advice.
thanks,
Eric

"GPE" <See_my_website_for_email@cox.net> wrote in message
news:wi2_e.26174$tB5.16319@okepread06...
> Yes, they do have a multiplexed segment bus and use individual digit
> strobes. You can isolate the digit drive signals at the connector. You
> should see these at pins 2, 3, 5 and 6 for the digits left to right.
>
> As always - suspect that edge connector first....
>
> -- Ed
>
>
>
>
> "Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
> news:MNQZe.7$wg7.0@fe06.lga...
> > Thats what I was kind of thinking; a logic probe and +42V is a bad
> > combination.
> >
> > Am I correct in assuming that the MPU "pulses" each digit quickly in
order
> > to handle all 4 digits on one data bus? Any way just to isolate one
> > digit?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Eric
> >
> > "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
> > news:dh800i0t7m@enews1.newsguy.com...
> >> !!!!! Be careful!
> >>
> >> (Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Fred
> >> TX
> >> CARGPB#8
> >> ******************
> >>
> >>
> >> "David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote
> >>
> >> > logic probe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Eric wrote:
> >> > > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
> >> > >
> >> > > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like the
> > MPU
> >> > > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven)
> >> > > digits
> > fast
> >> > > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single
> > digit?
> >> > >
> >> > > thanks,
> >> > > Eric
> >> > > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > >
> >> > >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had
a
> >> > >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display
problems.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>df
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
news:6rn_e.3573$wg7.398@fe06.lga...
> OK, I replaced the IDC connectors with crimp-on connectors and it didn't
> fix
> the problem (Darn it, nothings easy for me!)
>
> Anyway, on the original HH 4 digit display, the digit "1" will not appear
> in
> any of the digits, but the segments are good for all other numbers. I
> replaced the 6118 digit chip (Z3) on the 4 digit display and replaced Z26
> on
> the MPU.
>
> I swapped in my 4 digit display from my Sinbad and the "1" digit shows up,
> but it is much fainter than the other number digits and "flutters" (IE it
> doesn't stay on constantly, just on and off very fast).
>
> I am starting to think to go back to the MPU. I am thinking Z22 possibly
> could be a source of problems. I am going to need to spend some time with
> the schematics in any case.
>
> If you have a suggestion though, I open for advice.
> thanks,
> Eric



If you get a proper looking numbers on the four digit display but not a
"1" - I would give Z2 a serious looking after. And based on the other
segments looking good - I suspect Z2.

I doubt it will be Z22 for the "h" segment (number "1"). If the CPU board
were to be at fault, my guess would have been Z17.

Good luck,
Ed



>
> "GPE" <See_my_website_for_email@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:wi2_e.26174$tB5.16319@okepread06...
>> Yes, they do have a multiplexed segment bus and use individual digit
>> strobes. You can isolate the digit drive signals at the connector.
>> You
>> should see these at pins 2, 3, 5 and 6 for the digits left to right.
>>
>> As always - suspect that edge connector first....
>>
>> -- Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Eric" <estrangeway@NOcharter.SPAMMERSnet> wrote in message
>> news:MNQZe.7$wg7.0@fe06.lga...
>> > Thats what I was kind of thinking; a logic probe and +42V is a bad
>> > combination.
>> >
>> > Am I correct in assuming that the MPU "pulses" each digit quickly in
> order
>> > to handle all 4 digits on one data bus? Any way just to isolate one
>> > digit?
>> >
>> > thanks,
>> > Eric
>> >
>> > "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
>> > news:dh800i0t7m@enews1.newsguy.com...
>> >> !!!!! Be careful!
>> >>
>> >> (Be sure you are on the +5vdc side.)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Fred
>> >> TX
>> >> CARGPB#8
>> >> ******************
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "David Schulpius" <dschulpius@wi.rr.com> wrote
>> >>
>> >> > logic probe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Eric wrote:
>> >> > > Thanks for the posts guys. I'll take a look at things tonite.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Does anyone know a good way to test the 6118 IC? It looks like
>> >> > > the
>> > MPU
>> >> > > "strobes" the display, going between the four (or six or seven)
>> >> > > digits
>> > fast
>> >> > > enough so the human eye can't tell. Any way just to test a single
>> > digit?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > thanks,
>> >> > > Eric
>> >> > > "Wabajape" <dgfinck@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > > news:1127622754.952144.304360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > >
>> >> > >>Closely check the traces at the edge of the display PCB. I've had
> a
>> >> > >>hairline crack there cause maddeningly intermittent display
> problems.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>df
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>