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Dimension 2400 driving me mad!!

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July 29, 2004 11:16:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Hi everyone

I have an interesting problem - a friend bought a Dimension 2400 last
November. Since then she's had problem after problem with it.

The pc came with XP Home Edition and I installed a firewall (Zone
Alarm) and Norton Anti-Virus for her.

The basic problem is that the pc kept running v-e-r-y slowly and it
also regularly lost it's (cable) internet connection. She has 3
teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and Kazza and
things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.

She's uninstalled both ZA and Norton (because she's not very good with
pcs), so I reinstalled both and did a virus scan. This found over
3000 (yes, 3 THOUSAND) viruses on her pc! Norton took care of them
all and the pc seemed to be cured, as the normal speed returned.

A day or two later the pc slowed right down again and another virus
scan found a couple of hundred viruses. We decided then to completely
clear the hard drive and install XP Pro. This worked fine and
everything seemed fine.

Again, next day, the same again - slow pc, but interestingly Zone
Alarm and Norton had both disappeared from the system tray - trying to
being up the task manager only resulted in it appearing for maybe a
second at most and then disappearing before I could see what processes
were running.

At this point I thought she might have a boot sector virus and Norton
confirmed this and apparently removed it. A reboot and more viruses,
despite the fact that I had disconnected the cable modem.

I changed the hard drive for a known clean one (one of my old ones)
and installed Win XP Pro again along with ZA and Norton. Seemed fine,
but 5 minutes after I left her house ZA and Norton had again
disappeared from the tray and she's lost internet access!

Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.

I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...

Any pointers welcomed! :-)


Thanks
July 29, 2004 11:16:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:16:12 +0100, BriB <a@b.com> wrote:

>I changed the hard drive for a known clean one (one of my old ones)
>and installed Win XP Pro again along with ZA and Norton. Seemed fine,
>but 5 minutes after I left her house ZA and Norton had again
>disappeared from the tray and she's lost internet access!

Why would you swap hard drives ? Just format the original drive and
re-install XP pro..
July 29, 2004 11:16:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message news:iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com...
> Hi everyone
>
> I have an interesting problem - []

> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...

While technically possible, I don't recall ever hearing of one that
truly infects the BIOS. Anyone?

In any case, as someone else has pointed out, you not only need
to do a clean reinstall, you need to install all updates. Disconnect
the cable connection before you do a clean reinstall from trusted
media. After reinstall, enable Internet Connection Firewall on
the cable interface before reconnecting the cable internet connection.
Then use Windows Update to install all critical updates and other
relevant patches. Then install your antivirus, antispyware, etc
product(s) from the manufacturer's website or trusted media. Then
make sure those security tools have downloaded the latest updates
and are configured properly. Etc.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 11:27:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

directly after reinstalling windows xp from a re-formated drive (backup your
data first) you need to run windows update and download and install all
critical updates. then install an antivirus product other than norton
antivirus which falls flat on protecting you against trojans. computer
associates eztrust and ezfirewall (sygate under a different name) is
available for free with one year of automatic subscription update. set the
machine to automatically collect and install windows updates, and, finally,
create restricted user logons for the kids so they stop installing spyware
like kazaa.

"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com...
> Hi everyone
>
> I have an interesting problem - a friend bought a Dimension 2400 last
> November. Since then she's had problem after problem with it.
>
> The pc came with XP Home Edition and I installed a firewall (Zone
> Alarm) and Norton Anti-Virus for her.
>
> The basic problem is that the pc kept running v-e-r-y slowly and it
> also regularly lost it's (cable) internet connection. She has 3
> teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and Kazza and
> things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.
>
> She's uninstalled both ZA and Norton (because she's not very good with
> pcs), so I reinstalled both and did a virus scan. This found over
> 3000 (yes, 3 THOUSAND) viruses on her pc! Norton took care of them
> all and the pc seemed to be cured, as the normal speed returned.
>
> A day or two later the pc slowed right down again and another virus
> scan found a couple of hundred viruses. We decided then to completely
> clear the hard drive and install XP Pro. This worked fine and
> everything seemed fine.
>
> Again, next day, the same again - slow pc, but interestingly Zone
> Alarm and Norton had both disappeared from the system tray - trying to
> being up the task manager only resulted in it appearing for maybe a
> second at most and then disappearing before I could see what processes
> were running.
>
> At this point I thought she might have a boot sector virus and Norton
> confirmed this and apparently removed it. A reboot and more viruses,
> despite the fact that I had disconnected the cable modem.
>
> I changed the hard drive for a known clean one (one of my old ones)
> and installed Win XP Pro again along with ZA and Norton. Seemed fine,
> but 5 minutes after I left her house ZA and Norton had again
> disappeared from the tray and she's lost internet access!
>
> Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.
>
> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
>
> Any pointers welcomed! :-)
>
>
> Thanks
>
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 11:51:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.

Yes, its almost certainly spyware, as well as a combination of other
nasties - see below. There probably is still a virus on the system
somewhere, and its common behaviour nowadays for them to force apps to
close down to enable them to get on with their malicious behaviour.

> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
> Any pointers welcomed! :-)

I`ve tried to set up some "anti-spyware" help pages on here:

http://www.phoenixbbs.co.uk

The BIOS won`t be infected, but you may notice a common link - Norton.
Note that they issue updates every wednesday - but viruses are being
released all the time. What use is a once-a-week update ?

You need an effective virus killer - try www.kaspersky.com - updates are
available every two hours for the truly paranoid (and you need to be !)

....and ditch lookOut and IE asap !

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---
July 29, 2004 11:51:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Colin Wilson wrote:

>>Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.
>
> Yes, its almost certainly spyware, as well as a combination of other
> nasties - see below. There probably is still a virus on the system
> somewhere, and its common behaviour nowadays for them to force apps to
> close down to enable them to get on with their malicious behaviour.
>
>>I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
>>Any pointers welcomed! :-)
>
> I`ve tried to set up some "anti-spyware" help pages on here:
>
> http://www.phoenixbbs.co.uk
>
> The BIOS won`t be infected, but you may notice a common link - Norton.
> Note that they issue updates every wednesday - but viruses are being
> released all the time.

Not true - Symantec has updated virus signature available almost daily
(or did when I was doing manual downloads last year). Live Update is
usually updated weekly, but that's not cast in stone.

> What use is a once-a-week update ?
>
> You need an effective virus killer - try www.kaspersky.com - updates are
> available every two hours for the truly paranoid (and you need to be !)
>
> ...and ditch lookOut and IE asap !

Amen to that!
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 12:30:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> Live Update is usually updated weekly, but that's not cast in stone.

I knew in rare circumstances they released an interim update (usually
just too late to prevent the majority of newbies from getting stung)
but didn`t realise they had daily updates now.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---
July 30, 2004 3:25:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:10:48 -0400, "Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid>
shot his/her mouth off again, this time saying:

>
>"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message news:iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com...
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> I have an interesting problem - []
>
>> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
>
>While technically possible, I don't recall ever hearing of one that
>truly infects the BIOS. Anyone?
>
>In any case, as someone else has pointed out, you not only need
>to do a clean reinstall, you need to install all updates. Disconnect
>the cable connection before you do a clean reinstall from trusted
>media. After reinstall, enable Internet Connection Firewall on
>the cable interface before reconnecting the cable internet connection.
>Then use Windows Update to install all critical updates and other
>relevant patches. Then install your antivirus, antispyware, etc
>product(s) from the manufacturer's website or trusted media. Then
>make sure those security tools have downloaded the latest updates
>and are configured properly. Etc.


That's what I did Ted -disconnected the cable modem before installing
XP Pro and got the Windows updates. Installed Zone Alarm and Norton
and immediately ran Live Update to download any updates to this, and
the same with AdAware etc.

Still having the problem. :-(


BriB
July 30, 2004 3:28:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Hi Christopher

There aren't *any* filesharing programs installed - just bog standard
Win XP Pro and Zone Alarm and Norton AV 2004 Pro.

Have set up the kids' accounts again but restricted so they can't
install anything. They haven't even used the pc since reinstalling XP
Pro anyway.

I didn't know that about Norton. Seems like I wasted my money?

Thanks.



On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:27:21 GMT, "Christopher Muto"
<muto@worldnet.att.net> shot his/her mouth off again, this time
saying:

>directly after reinstalling windows xp from a re-formated drive (backup your
>data first) you need to run windows update and download and install all
>critical updates. then install an antivirus product other than norton
>antivirus which falls flat on protecting you against trojans. computer
>associates eztrust and ezfirewall (sygate under a different name) is
>available for free with one year of automatic subscription update. set the
>machine to automatically collect and install windows updates, and, finally,
>create restricted user logons for the kids so they stop installing spyware
>like kazaa.
>
>"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message
>news:iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com...
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> I have an interesting problem - a friend bought a Dimension 2400 last
>> November. Since then she's had problem after problem with it.
>>
>> The pc came with XP Home Edition and I installed a firewall (Zone
>> Alarm) and Norton Anti-Virus for her.
>>
>> The basic problem is that the pc kept running v-e-r-y slowly and it
>> also regularly lost it's (cable) internet connection. She has 3
>> teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and Kazza and
>> things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.
>>
>> She's uninstalled both ZA and Norton (because she's not very good with
>> pcs), so I reinstalled both and did a virus scan. This found over
>> 3000 (yes, 3 THOUSAND) viruses on her pc! Norton took care of them
>> all and the pc seemed to be cured, as the normal speed returned.
>>
>> A day or two later the pc slowed right down again and another virus
>> scan found a couple of hundred viruses. We decided then to completely
>> clear the hard drive and install XP Pro. This worked fine and
>> everything seemed fine.
>>
>> Again, next day, the same again - slow pc, but interestingly Zone
>> Alarm and Norton had both disappeared from the system tray - trying to
>> being up the task manager only resulted in it appearing for maybe a
>> second at most and then disappearing before I could see what processes
>> were running.
>>
>> At this point I thought she might have a boot sector virus and Norton
>> confirmed this and apparently removed it. A reboot and more viruses,
>> despite the fact that I had disconnected the cable modem.
>>
>> I changed the hard drive for a known clean one (one of my old ones)
>> and installed Win XP Pro again along with ZA and Norton. Seemed fine,
>> but 5 minutes after I left her house ZA and Norton had again
>> disappeared from the tray and she's lost internet access!
>>
>> Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.
>>
>> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
>>
>> Any pointers welcomed! :-)
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>


BriB
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:28:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

after years of being a trustworthy and reliable program, norton antivirus
has really disappointed lately. they simply fail to protect against many
different types of trojans. just about any other current product is more
reliable, but i like mcafee 2004/8.0 (virus scan only), computer associates
eztrust, and trend micro pccillian (in no particular order). i never called
computer associates, but my understanding is that trend micro is the only
anti virus company left that has telephone support included with the
product. and it is an excellent product. there is a chance that your
computers master boot sector is infected with some sort of virus and so you
keep becoming reinfected (even after a format). why not visit mcafee.com or
trendmicro.com and run their free on-line virus scan. they will find stuff,
and detail what was found, but you have to buy their product to have it
automatically cleaned... you could look up their manual removal instruction
(or those from another vendor) to remove something if found... i recommend
that everyone with norton antivirus do this as they may be surprised to find
what norton has missed. lets here the results from these scan utilities...

"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:6buig01l0h75dr75navlti55vp41nr03t2@4ax.com...
> Hi Christopher
>
> There aren't *any* filesharing programs installed - just bog standard
> Win XP Pro and Zone Alarm and Norton AV 2004 Pro.
>
> Have set up the kids' accounts again but restricted so they can't
> install anything. They haven't even used the pc since reinstalling XP
> Pro anyway.
>
> I didn't know that about Norton. Seems like I wasted my money?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:27:21 GMT, "Christopher Muto"
> <muto@worldnet.att.net> shot his/her mouth off again, this time
> saying:
>
> >directly after reinstalling windows xp from a re-formated drive (backup
your
> >data first) you need to run windows update and download and install all
> >critical updates. then install an antivirus product other than norton
> >antivirus which falls flat on protecting you against trojans. computer
> >associates eztrust and ezfirewall (sygate under a different name) is
> >available for free with one year of automatic subscription update. set
the
> >machine to automatically collect and install windows updates, and,
finally,
> >create restricted user logons for the kids so they stop installing
spyware
> >like kazaa.
> >
> >"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message
> >news:iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com...
> >> Hi everyone
> >>
> >> I have an interesting problem - a friend bought a Dimension 2400 last
> >> November. Since then she's had problem after problem with it.
> >>
> >> The pc came with XP Home Edition and I installed a firewall (Zone
> >> Alarm) and Norton Anti-Virus for her.
> >>
> >> The basic problem is that the pc kept running v-e-r-y slowly and it
> >> also regularly lost it's (cable) internet connection. She has 3
> >> teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and Kazza and
> >> things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.
> >>
> >> She's uninstalled both ZA and Norton (because she's not very good with
> >> pcs), so I reinstalled both and did a virus scan. This found over
> >> 3000 (yes, 3 THOUSAND) viruses on her pc! Norton took care of them
> >> all and the pc seemed to be cured, as the normal speed returned.
> >>
> >> A day or two later the pc slowed right down again and another virus
> >> scan found a couple of hundred viruses. We decided then to completely
> >> clear the hard drive and install XP Pro. This worked fine and
> >> everything seemed fine.
> >>
> >> Again, next day, the same again - slow pc, but interestingly Zone
> >> Alarm and Norton had both disappeared from the system tray - trying to
> >> being up the task manager only resulted in it appearing for maybe a
> >> second at most and then disappearing before I could see what processes
> >> were running.
> >>
> >> At this point I thought she might have a boot sector virus and Norton
> >> confirmed this and apparently removed it. A reboot and more viruses,
> >> despite the fact that I had disconnected the cable modem.
> >>
> >> I changed the hard drive for a known clean one (one of my old ones)
> >> and installed Win XP Pro again along with ZA and Norton. Seemed fine,
> >> but 5 minutes after I left her house ZA and Norton had again
> >> disappeared from the tray and she's lost internet access!
> >>
> >> Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.
> >>
> >> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
> >>
> >> Any pointers welcomed! :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >
>
>
> BriB
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:28:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Christopher Muto" <muto@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:p yfOc.4054$Yp1.1722@trndny06...
> after years of being a trustworthy and reliable program, norton antivirus
> has really disappointed lately. they simply fail to protect against many
> different types of trojans. just about any other current product is more
> reliable, but i like mcafee 2004/8.0 (virus scan only), computer
> associates
> eztrust, and trend micro pccillian (in no particular order). i never
> called
> computer associates, but my understanding is that trend micro is the only
> anti virus company left that has telephone support included with the
> product. and it is an excellent product. there is a chance that your
> computers master boot sector is infected with some sort of virus and so
> you
> keep becoming reinfected (even after a format). why not visit mcafee.com
> or
> trendmicro.com and run their free on-line virus scan. they will find
> stuff,
> and detail what was found, but you have to buy their product to have it
> automatically cleaned... you could look up their manual removal
> instruction
> (or those from another vendor) to remove something if found... i
> recommend
> that everyone with norton antivirus do this as they may be surprised to
> find
> what norton has missed. lets here the results from these scan utilities...
>

<snip>


I also wonder about the possibility of the system getting re-infected during
any brief opening connection to the web perhaps w/o firewall or update
protection. ?
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:28:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

S.Lewis wrote:
> "Christopher Muto" <muto@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:p yfOc.4054$Yp1.1722@trndny06...
>> after years of being a trustworthy and reliable program, norton
>> antivirus has really disappointed lately. they simply fail to
>> protect against many different types of trojans. just about any
>> other current product is more reliable, but i like mcafee 2004/8.0
>> (virus scan only), computer associates
>> eztrust, and trend micro pccillian (in no particular order). i never
>> called
>> computer associates, but my understanding is that trend micro is the
>> only anti virus company left that has telephone support included
>> with the product. and it is an excellent product. there is a
>> chance that your computers master boot sector is infected with some
>> sort of virus and so you
>> keep becoming reinfected (even after a format). why not visit
>> mcafee.com or
>> trendmicro.com and run their free on-line virus scan. they will find
>> stuff,
>> and detail what was found, but you have to buy their product to have
>> it automatically cleaned... you could look up their manual removal
>> instruction
>> (or those from another vendor) to remove something if found... i
>> recommend
>> that everyone with norton antivirus do this as they may be surprised
>> to find
>> what norton has missed. lets here the results from these scan
>> utilities...
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>
> I also wonder about the possibility of the system getting re-infected
> during any brief opening connection to the web perhaps w/o firewall
> or update protection. ?

This is the Achilles Heel of Windows updating. Since you have a
connection, download the updates and burn them to CD. Use that to get
the other system secure (if that is an appropriate word!). Install A/V
and firewall the same way. Then, make that first connection.

Q
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:28:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
news:CradnWrWSZSpMJTcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> S.Lewis wrote:
>> "Christopher Muto" <muto@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>> news:p yfOc.4054$Yp1.1722@trndny06...
>>> after years of being a trustworthy and reliable program, norton
>>> antivirus has really disappointed lately. they simply fail to
>>> protect against many different types of trojans. just about any
>>> other current product is more reliable, but i like mcafee 2004/8.0
>>> (virus scan only), computer associates
>>> eztrust, and trend micro pccillian (in no particular order). i never
>>> called
>>> computer associates, but my understanding is that trend micro is the
>>> only anti virus company left that has telephone support included
>>> with the product. and it is an excellent product. there is a
>>> chance that your computers master boot sector is infected with some
>>> sort of virus and so you
>>> keep becoming reinfected (even after a format). why not visit
>>> mcafee.com or
>>> trendmicro.com and run their free on-line virus scan. they will find
>>> stuff,
>>> and detail what was found, but you have to buy their product to have
>>> it automatically cleaned... you could look up their manual removal
>>> instruction
>>> (or those from another vendor) to remove something if found... i
>>> recommend
>>> that everyone with norton antivirus do this as they may be surprised
>>> to find
>>> what norton has missed. lets here the results from these scan
>>> utilities...
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>> I also wonder about the possibility of the system getting re-infected
>> during any brief opening connection to the web perhaps w/o firewall
>> or update protection. ?
>
> This is the Achilles Heel of Windows updating. Since you have a
> connection, download the updates and burn them to CD. Use that to get
> the other system secure (if that is an appropriate word!). Install A/V
> and firewall the same way. Then, make that first connection.
>
> Q
>
>


Or "hide" the system behind a router/hardware firewall before connecting
(when that is an option)....


Stew
July 30, 2004 3:30:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Thanls to everyone who's replied. Still no wiser though!

I am going to take my *old* pc round there tomorrow night and see what
happens when I hook it up to my friend's cable modem!



BriB
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:30:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:1iuig056q9l7kikqak2n0k0lrt3efgqrvh@4ax.com...
> Thanls to everyone who's replied. Still no wiser though!
>
> I am going to take my *old* pc round there tomorrow night and see what
> happens when I hook it up to my friend's cable modem!
>
>
>
> BriB


"Shields UP!"

Good luck.


Stew
July 30, 2004 7:44:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message news:b6uig0lpm5eai357heeqfqonf2srv2sgr8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:10:48 -0400, "Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid>
> shot his/her mouth off again, this time saying:

You might want to change that

> >"BriB" <a@b.com> wrote in message news:iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com...
> >In any case, as someone else has pointed out, you not only need
> >to do a clean reinstall, you need to install all updates. Disconnect
> >the cable connection before you do a clean reinstall from trusted
> >media. After reinstall, enable Internet Connection Firewall on
> >the cable interface before reconnecting the cable internet connection.
> > []

> That's what I did Ted -disconnected the cable modem before installing
> XP Pro and got the Windows updates. Installed Zone Alarm and Norton
> and immediately ran Live Update to download any updates to this, and
> the same with AdAware etc.
>
> Still having the problem. :-(

Did you reformat/repartition the drive prior to install? Are you SURE
you had ICF running on the correct network interface BEFORE you
connected the cable modem? Come to think of it, I'd also recommend
disabling Client For Microsoft Networks and File and Printer Sharing
for Microsoft Networks.

Hopefully none of the Windows udpates will reset the ICF setting. I'd
keep an eye on that.

To keep things simple, just stick with ICF for awhile and don't install
another firewall product. After you install which ever antivirus and
antimalware tools you want, do a full scan of the system. It should
be clean. If it isn't, the machine wasn't properly firewalled or something
you installed on the machine was infected.

What email client is your friend using? If OE, make sure it is set to
operate in the Restricted Sites Zone, disable the opening of potentially
harmfull attachments, read (and send) all messages as plain text, etc.

While you enjoy the good food and drink your friend has prepared
for you as a thank you for the hard work, let them play with the
machine and keep an eye on them to make sure they aren't
subsequently doing something to make their box vulnerable again.
July 30, 2004 8:04:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message news:CradnWrWSZSpMJTcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> S.Lewis wrote:

> > I also wonder about the possibility of the system getting re-infected
> > during any brief opening connection to the web perhaps w/o firewall
> > or update protection. ?
>
> This is the Achilles Heel of Windows updating. Since you have a
> connection, download the updates and burn them to CD. Use that to get
> the other system secure (if that is an appropriate word!). Install A/V
> and firewall the same way. Then, make that first connection.

IIRC, even the initial release of XP included ICF. In any case,
having the updates on disk is certainly an advantage. Microsoft
makes that Security Update CD available for free:

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/cd/ord...

But I haven't cracked mine yet, to verify whether it is just critical
updates or all updates.

When you speak of downloading updates that can be burned on
CD, are you recommending the use of the Windows Update
Catalog or are you aware of some other approach to getting your
hands on the update files?
July 30, 2004 6:52:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I think the behavior is caused by virus(es) and/or spyware. There are
a few good free internet virus scanners which can find some viruses
that may not be found by Norton.
Here are 3 that I like
http://www.pcpitstop.com/antivirus/default.asp
http://www.pcpitstop.com/freescan/default.asp
http://housecall.trendmicro.com/
Next I'd use both AdAware and SpyBot Search & Destroy (both of which
are free) to look for and remove spyware from the hard drive. I use
both because one sometimes catches something that the other one
doesn't.

If you find nothing with those 3 virus scans and the 2 spyware scans,
then it's back to the drawing board, I'd say. However, I'd also be
interested the specifications of the computer. Windows XP Home can run
very slowly on a computer with only 128 MB of RAM because it may be
accessing the hard drive a lot. Good luck.

Daniel

BriB <a@b.com> wrote in message news:<iueig0t1oppk714vac4g98tdi8d8q82mnm@4ax.com>...
> Hi everyone
>
> I have an interesting problem - a friend bought a Dimension 2400 last
> November. Since then she's had problem after problem with it.
>
> The pc came with XP Home Edition and I installed a firewall (Zone
> Alarm) and Norton Anti-Virus for her.
>
> The basic problem is that the pc kept running v-e-r-y slowly and it
> also regularly lost it's (cable) internet connection. She has 3
> teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and Kazza and
> things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.
>
> She's uninstalled both ZA and Norton (because she's not very good with
> pcs), so I reinstalled both and did a virus scan. This found over
> 3000 (yes, 3 THOUSAND) viruses on her pc! Norton took care of them
> all and the pc seemed to be cured, as the normal speed returned.
>
> A day or two later the pc slowed right down again and another virus
> scan found a couple of hundred viruses. We decided then to completely
> clear the hard drive and install XP Pro. This worked fine and
> everything seemed fine.
>
> Again, next day, the same again - slow pc, but interestingly Zone
> Alarm and Norton had both disappeared from the system tray - trying to
> being up the task manager only resulted in it appearing for maybe a
> second at most and then disappearing before I could see what processes
> were running.
>
> At this point I thought she might have a boot sector virus and Norton
> confirmed this and apparently removed it. A reboot and more viruses,
> despite the fact that I had disconnected the cable modem.
>
> I changed the hard drive for a known clean one (one of my old ones)
> and installed Win XP Pro again along with ZA and Norton. Seemed fine,
> but 5 minutes after I left her house ZA and Norton had again
> disappeared from the tray and she's lost internet access!
>
> Has anyone come across anything similar as I'm stumped.
>
> I was thinking that perhaps the BIOS had been infected...
>
> Any pointers welcomed! :-)
>
>
> Thanks
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 7:27:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

All updates including WMP9

--
Steve Williams



"Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:410a0108$0$2833$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
> "Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
news:CradnWrWSZSpMJTcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> > S.Lewis wrote:
>
> > > I also wonder about the possibility of the system getting
re-infected
> > > during any brief opening connection to the web perhaps w/o
firewall
> > > or update protection. ?
> >
> > This is the Achilles Heel of Windows updating. Since you have a
> > connection, download the updates and burn them to CD. Use that to
get
> > the other system secure (if that is an appropriate word!). Install
A/V
> > and firewall the same way. Then, make that first connection.
>
> IIRC, even the initial release of XP included ICF. In any case,
> having the updates on disk is certainly an advantage. Microsoft
> makes that Security Update CD available for free:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/cd/ord...
>
> But I haven't cracked mine yet, to verify whether it is just critical
> updates or all updates.
>
> When you speak of downloading updates that can be burned on
> CD, are you recommending the use of the Windows Update
> Catalog or are you aware of some other approach to getting your
> hands on the update files?
>
>
>




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Anonymous
July 30, 2004 10:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

dgrnyc@yahoo.com (daniel) wrote:

>BriB <a@b.com> wrote

>> I have an interesting problem - a friend bought a Dimension 2400 last
>> November. Since then she's had problem after problem with it.
>>
>> The pc came with XP Home Edition and I installed a firewall (Zone
>> Alarm) and Norton Anti-Virus for her.
>>
>> The basic problem is that the pc kept running v-e-r-y slowly and it
>> also regularly lost it's (cable) internet connection. She has 3
>> teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and Kazza and
>> things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.

This bears repeating:

>>She has 3 teenage kids who were downloading music from Morpheus and
>>Kaaza and things came to a head maybe a month ago when the pc barely ran.

Remainder snipped.

>I think the behavior is caused by virus(es) and/or spyware. There are
>a few good free internet virus scanners which can find some viruses
>that may not be found by Norton.
>Here are 3 that I like
>http://www.pcpitstop.com/antivirus/default.asp
>http://www.pcpitstop.com/freescan/default.asp
>http://housecall.trendmicro.com/
>Next I'd use both AdAware and SpyBot Search & Destroy (both of which
>are free) to look for and remove spyware from the hard drive. I use
>both because one sometimes catches something that the other one
>doesn't.
>
>If you find nothing with those 3 virus scans and the 2 spyware scans,
>then it's back to the drawing board, I'd say. However, I'd also be
>interested the specifications of the computer. Windows XP Home can run
>very slowly on a computer with only 128 MB of RAM because it may be
>accessing the hard drive a lot. Good luck.

I tend to agree with you. Depending on where those kids *got*
Kaaza in the first place, it could have brought its own spyware
with it. Many of the Kaaza downloads available come with it,
although Kaaza itself claims they got rid of it.

Secondly, kids downloading music right and left for several
months would worry the hell out of me, if I hadn't laid down the
rules for safe computing. Which would be that after every
downloading session - or every hour of a downloading session if
they're at it for several hour - they run the AV program and
AdAware and Spybot. When you send Kaaza or Morpheus out to get
something, Zeus only knows what is going to come along when it
comes back to you with the tune(s) you sent it off for.

Second rule is that they never, ever, never, turn off the
firewall or the antivirus problem. If something ever causes them
problems downloading, they call mother who can call you.

I would suspect that is exactly what happened to her machine.
Either ZA or the NAV program gave them hassles over their
downloading, so they turned them off. "It won't hurt anything,
and there's some good tunes out there I want to get today."
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 12:06:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:410a0108$0$2833$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
> "Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote in message
> news:CradnWrWSZSpMJTcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
>> S.Lewis wrote:
>
>> > I also wonder about the possibility of the system getting re-infected
>> > during any brief opening connection to the web perhaps w/o firewall
>> > or update protection. ?
>>
>> This is the Achilles Heel of Windows updating. Since you have a
>> connection, download the updates and burn them to CD. Use that to get
>> the other system secure (if that is an appropriate word!). Install A/V
>> and firewall the same way. Then, make that first connection.
>
> IIRC, even the initial release of XP included ICF. In any case,
> having the updates on disk is certainly an advantage. Microsoft
> makes that Security Update CD available for free:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/cd/ord...
>
> But I haven't cracked mine yet, to verify whether it is just critical
> updates or all updates.
>
> When you speak of downloading updates that can be burned on
> CD, are you recommending the use of the Windows Update
> Catalog or are you aware of some other approach to getting your
> hands on the update files?
>
>
>


I welcome correction, but until XP SP2, I believe the IC Firewall is "off"
by default after an install or upon first (and subsequent) boots. SP2 gives
a full screen security check off upon reboot that analyzes updates, defaults
the XP firewall to "on", and checks for an enabled AV program and whether it
is updated.

I've wondered as well about any manual means of installing updates from disc
after a clean install - short of ordering as much from MS.

Anyone know of a way to do as much?


Stew
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 12:09:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Ogden Johnson III" <oj3usmc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:05hlg0d2ucfvi59lhkspgp2u90g1029m3l@4ax.com...
> dgrnyc@yahoo.com (daniel) wrote:
>
>>BriB <a@b.com> wrote

<snip of relevant comments>


"Kids".

"Teen-aged kids."

'Nuff said in my experience. Even if they are "good" kids. Mix in P2P apps.
and say goodbye to your OS.....


Stew
July 31, 2004 3:34:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:8fCOc.510$g_5.350@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

> I welcome correction, but until XP SP2, I believe the IC Firewall is "off"
> by default after an install or upon first (and subsequent) boots. SP2 gives
> a full screen security check off upon reboot that analyzes updates, defaults
> the XP firewall to "on", and checks for an enabled AV program and whether it
> is updated.
>
> I've wondered as well about any manual means of installing updates from disc
> after a clean install - short of ordering as much from MS.
>
> Anyone know of a way to do as much?
>
>
> Stew
>
>
July 31, 2004 3:44:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:8fCOc.510$g_5.350@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

> I welcome correction, but until XP SP2, I believe the IC Firewall is "off"
> by default after an install or upon first (and subsequent) boots.

I concur. But as long as you know that and stay unconnected
until you have enabled ICF, I think you will have eliminated the
window of vulnerability you mentioned earlier. That's all I was
saying.

> I've wondered as well about any manual means of installing updates from disc
> after a clean install - short of ordering as much from MS.
>
> Anyone know of a way to do as much?

The Windows Update Catalog supposedly allows you to download
updates which can then be applied to one or more computers. I've
looked at it, but haven't played with it to confirm.

http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/catalog/en/defaul...
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 2:04:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> > I've wondered as well about any manual means of installing updates from disc
> > after a clean install - short of ordering as much from MS.
> > Anyone know of a way to do as much?
> The Windows Update Catalog supposedly allows you to download
> updates which can then be applied to one or more computers. I've
> looked at it, but haven't played with it to confirm.
> http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/catalog/en/defaul...

It works for the win9x series just fine

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 2:57:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <tccOc.5972$Mr3.4918@trndny08>, muto@worldnet.att.net
(Christopher Muto) says...

> directly after reinstalling windows xp from a re-formated drive (backup your
> data first) you need to run windows update and download and install all
> critical updates. then install an antivirus product other than norton
> antivirus which falls flat on protecting you against trojans. computer
> associates eztrust and ezfirewall (sygate under a different name) is
> available for free with one year of automatic subscription update. set the
> machine to automatically collect and install windows updates, and, finally,
> create restricted user logons for the kids so they stop installing spyware
> like kazaa.

It's the kids that are the problem. I run Zone Alarm Pro, Norton AV and
Adaware, and have never been infected with a data miner or virus. None
of the user accounts on my system have admin privileges, so nobody can
download and run a trojan.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 3:05:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <b6uig0lpm5eai357heeqfqonf2srv2sgr8@4ax.com>, a@b.com (BriB)
says...

> That's what I did Ted -disconnected the cable modem before installing
> XP Pro and got the Windows updates. Installed Zone Alarm and Norton
> and immediately ran Live Update to download any updates to this, and
> the same with AdAware etc.
>
> Still having the problem. :-(

If you have a boot sector virus, you will have to fdisk to get rid of
it. A drive format does not touch the boot sector.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 4:06:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ouch! More complete information please. Plain old FDISK can remove and add
partitions, and pretty much mess up the contents of a hard drive if not used
with great caution.

To remove a boot block virus, first make sure you have a virus-free bootable
floppy diskette drive with FDISK.EXE on it. The diskette can have been made
from any Windows release 95A or later.

Next, boot the system with the bootable floppy diskette.

Next, at the A: prompt, enter the following command exactly as shown followed
buy the Enter or Return key:

FDISK /MBR

The /MBR command line parameter tells FDISK to rewrite the master boot record on
the first hard drive, nominally the C: drive... Ben Myers

On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 23:05:18 GMT, Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote:

>In article <b6uig0lpm5eai357heeqfqonf2srv2sgr8@4ax.com>, a@b.com (BriB)
>says...
>
>> That's what I did Ted -disconnected the cable modem before installing
>> XP Pro and got the Windows updates. Installed Zone Alarm and Norton
>> and immediately ran Live Update to download any updates to this, and
>> the same with AdAware etc.
>>
>> Still having the problem. :-(
>
>If you have a boot sector virus, you will have to fdisk to get rid of
>it. A drive format does not touch the boot sector.
>
>--
>http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 4:21:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> If you have a boot sector virus, you will have to fdisk to get rid of
> it. A drive format does not touch the boot sector.

ISTR Most decent virus killers can and will get rid of boot sector
viruses. I once found one on a drive that had had Norton installed (and
was up to date), but AVP from Kaspersky spotted it straight away and
sorted it out. Norton hadn`t even noticed - and the virus was about 3
years old at the time.

Didn`t the way Windows loads alter around the release of Win98 so that a
boot sector virus wasn`t actually a problem any more ?

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
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!