p4 software

[Guest]

well just read tom's latest test on the p4 looks like its pulling a bit of ground back on the amd, aslong as the software is tailered to fit,
looks to me like is going to be one software for intel and one for amd just like in the good old days of amiga vs atari
surely we cant go back to that.

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

yeah, but in those conditions; guess what? the P4 is going to come out ahead.

 

[Ncogneto]

Actually no, when sse2 optimized software finally STARTS to hit the market Amd will have its cpu's equipped with SSE2 also. Hopefully however, they wont choose the same route that Intell did by crippling its x87i FPU unit in the process. Let us wait and see, this is where, as I see it, what will actually tell which manufactorer has there customers best interest at heart. If AMD is to produce a chip with both sse2 and a reel good x87i FPU unit as well, then they will have truly shamed intel. However, if they choose the same route that intel did well then that is quite a different matter.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Yeah, but have you actually looked at the design of the P4? It's completely 100 percent optimized for running SSE2 software. Intel put all of their eggs in one basket there. But it's a plan that just might work.

Even IF AMD does release chips (other than their Hammers which are meant specifically for servers) with SSE2 capability, they will NEVER run SSE2 software as fast as Intel's P4 chips do because AMD would never design their whole chip strucutre around SSE2. They'll just take their Athons, Durons, T-Birds, etc. and add SSE2 into them. So against a P4, AMD chips will always lose while running SSE2 software.

And with SSE2 being so easy to compile for and all software engineers having been hungrily waiting for it to be served, you can bet that Intel did the right thing this time around. The only way Intel can lose now is if somehow AMD can convince everyone in the world that their chips are better before SSE2 software becomes as commonplace as MMX. Because once that happens, AMD has lost all hope of overthrowing Intel.

Oh, and it'll never get as bad as Amiga Vs. Atari (or Mac Vs. PC) because both Intel and AMD are producing chips based on the same architecture. They might be optimized in different ways, but software engineers are going to be able to adapt programs to run both ways since they're both fundamentally the same, just optimized differently.

- Anything can be fixed with duct tape, a swiss army knife, and WD-40. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by slvr_phoenix on 11/28/00 02:51 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

I'd really have to question whether or not it will be that clean cut. Sure, SSE2 apps will probably edge out a little if it's just SSE2. But most apps will likely have SSE2 enhancements. So, to better clarify, AMD's new chips may have a more sound architecture in general and just be stronger at most things but only have SSE2 included. Intel's then maybe SSE2 optimized, but overall, be more cumbersome (Rambus-like) and thus more sluggish. The more dependent the app is on SSE2, the better the Intel chip will do. However, in apps not so SSE2 heavy, the AMD chip may perform better. I think we'll really have to wait and see what the market does with SSE2.

Charles

 

[Ncogneto]

I am not quite sure I fully understand your assumption. What I gather you to be saying is that To fully implement SSE2 the chip manufactorer has to make design changes to the chip infrastructure that would fundamantally cripple its x87i FPU calculations. If a chip were to be designed that was simular to the p4 with the two MMX and two SSE units of the Pentium III or Athlon along with the one sse2 unit it would still lag in carrying out sse2 instructions? Remember when designing the p4 intell choose to remove one mmx and one sse fpu unit. This is why the p4 is suffering so much with todays software. My question is this. Could not an SSE2 unit be added without casterating the mmx/sse units? Was this a matter of optimizing the p4 for sse2 or was it simply a matter of cost reduction? Would it in theory be possible to have both or would this cause a slow down with sse2 calculations?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!