Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (
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Twinge wrote:
> maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
> > frobnoid wrote:
> >
> >>I
> >>t
> >>
> >>w
> >>a
> >>s
> >>
> >>t
> >>h
> >>e
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> >>b
> >>e
> >>s
> >>t
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> >>o
> >>f
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> >>i
> >>m
> >>e
> >>s
> >>
> >>It was the blurst of times...
> >>
> >> What factors affect how well one learns a spell after reading a
> >> book? Clearly class, learning, the spell involved and literacy
> >> affect it, plus there are a couple of relevant signs and talents
> >> that can increase that number significantly and there's a random
> >> component but what else?
> >
> >
> > "How well" is too loose a term. As I see it there are three levels.
> >
> > First you need to actually succeed in reading. It seems to be a
simple
> > skill check versus Literacy. Failure is indicated by "You do not
manage
> > to decipher .."
> >
> > Then there is the actual outcome of reading. Either you get (more)
> > castings, you gain nothing or you suffer some adverse effect. This
> > seems to be highly class related and also dependant on the B/U/C
> > status of the book and the relative difficulty of the spell. The
> > Concentration skill also seems to have a fair amount of importance.
> >
> > Finally a variable amount of castings are added if successful. This
> > seems to be a complicated matter. A book seems to have an internal
> > base value of castings to add. I admit this is a bit speculative,
> > but two spellbooks with identical spells will often have different
> > prices.
> > The amount of castings also seems to be highly dependant on
> > learning. Possibly also the B/U/C status of the book and
> > Concentration. It is not my impression that class matters a lot (if
> > at all) in this respect.
> >
> > Totally empirical I admit. Perhaps a diver could illuminate the
> > matter (and spoil us rotten).
>
> Well, here's a basic overview of what is factored in (in order of
> application) to what determines if you successfully read the book:
>
> We start off with a difficulty based on the specific spellbook
> (Darkness and Light are rather low, Wish is really high)
> The 'shelves and books' room effect helps.
> Learning is counted in next.
> Druids, Priests, Wizards, and Necromancers get a bonus.
> You get a minus if drunk.
> Cursed gets a minus, blessed gets a bonus.
> Then Druids, Priests, Wizards, Necromancers, and Elementalists get
> another bonus (Elementalists for the first time) based on the PC's
> level. Then most classes get a smaller bonus based on thier level.
> Mindcrafters and Trolls, however, don't get this bonus at all.
> Next, Literacy and Concetration are factored in.
> Necromancers and druids both get a bonus for thier guaranteed
starting
> books, frost bolt and lightning bolt, respectively.
> After that you get a bonus if you're born in the month of the book.
>
> All of this combines together for some kind of base value. It's
pretty
> complicated so I'm just giving an overview for now instead of
> specifics. Now you choose wheter to cast or read the book. If you
> read it...
>
Okay so this is actually checked first.. Guess it is a good idea
to have Literacy on 100 or close since it would be wasteful to
risk the fairly serious consequences on failure here only to fail
Literacy.
Also I don't see a problem in Elementalists only getting the one
bonus here as they are not intended to get spells from books. In
fact other classes who get a number of castings pr. level up (such
as Healers) ought to get the same bonus. Healers can be awesome
spellcasters. Got a lvl 50 Wand DE Healer on ice to proove it. Calm
Monster is _the_ spell against summoners.
Forgot about the room effect briefly. Seems to be quite significant
to Mindcrafters.
> Now there's a straight up literacy roll. Basically, your literacy
> skill is a percentage chance of successfully reading the book. If
you
> fail the check, you 'cannot decipher the runes' and nothing else
> happens. Now the base value is checked against a d100. If you
> succeed, I think it then starts counting up how much to increase your
> knowledge of the spell:
>
As suspected.
> There's a check that's gives you a better bonus if you already have
at
> least 30 skill points in the book, and also depends on learning.
> Next your PC's level is factored in again.
> Continuing on, The Cup birthsign is now factored in - so Book
increases
> the chances of successfully reading a book, while Cup increases how
> much you learn from reading it.
> After that the good & great book learning talents are factored in.
(so
> they, too, only increase the amount learned, not the chance of
learning).
>
No impact from Concentration... That does not coincide with my
experiences at all. In fact I got app. 10 times more castings
with the two characters with wished for Concentration I have had
so far. Am I wrong about this or... "You are hit by a bolt of
assembly code. You are confused."
> If you fail to read the book sucessfully, it depends on all these
> previous factors plus a base value for each class (shown below) your
> chances of the book doing something nasty versus your chances to just
> not learning anything.
> 50 - Wizard, Elementalist
> 40 - Priest, Necromancer
> 35 - Healer
> 30 - Bard, Druid
> 25 - Paladin, Ranger
> 20 - Thief, Assassin, Monk, Weaponsmith, Beastfighter, Merchant
> 15 - Fighter, Archer
> 10 - Farmer
> -10 - Mindcrafter
> -20 - Barbarian
> Do note that this only determines the chances for something bad
> happening here, nothing else.
Also a bit as expected. I note the relatively high Healer and Bard
score. Much in line with the discussion above - that these classes
are spellcasters in essense. Also I note the relatively low score
for Archers, who otherwise start with Concentration and thus
spellcaster potential.
> If you fail this check, random chance of:
> Spellbook bursting into flames, power drained, feel hollow, confused,
> stunned, life force drained, explodes in a fireball, blindness,
dizzy,
> drains health (this lowers toughness by 1), spellbook vanish, or pit
> creation.
I don't recall the "feel hollow". Also I seem to recall teleporting
from failure. The -1 in To is the worst by far. It adds an element of
risk to using books as gravediggers.
[SNIP: A few notes]
> To sum up, it depends on: Class (pretty self explanatory to the
extent
> spellcasters read better), birthsign, wheter you're drunk, the
> dificulty of the spellbook, room effect, and if you're a troll. Also
> B/U/C status, Learning, Concetration, Literacy, and the PC's level
> factor in - the higher of these the better.
>
> Eventually I might get around to looking at specifics if Vlad doesn't
> beat me to it. It's relatively complex and I don't feel like working
> it out right now