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YAGBU: Healing, Regenration Rates *spoily*

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December 26, 2004 2:38:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

{spoiler space}

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Not detailed technical information I'm afraid, but this is definately
worth a mention all the same.

The guidebook states that it is essential to obtain the Healing skill.
Advanced strategies involving a lot of careful play and herb-harvesting
aside, a candle-born character with the healthy talent is perfectly
capable of getting through the game without healing. To give one
example, my Candle-born Gnomish Thief with Healthy but not Healing is
currently regenerating something in the region of 2 hitpoints every 12
turns, after one troll corpse. (The rate wasn't far off that before
the corpse either.)
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 4:44:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

KevinO wrote:
> {spoiler space}
>
> Y
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> .
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>
> Not detailed technical information I'm afraid, but this is definately
> worth a mention all the same.

Did someone say 'detailed technical information'? =D
Vlad pulled most of this information, I just retyped it to make it
_hopefully_ understandable and readable ;) 

> The guidebook states that it is essential to obtain the Healing
> skill. Advanced strategies involving a lot of careful play and
> herb-harvesting aside, a candle-born character with the healthy
> talent is perfectly capable of getting through the game without
> healing. To give one example, my Candle-born Gnomish Thief with
> Healthy but not Healing is currently regenerating something in the
> region of 2 hitpoints every 12 turns, after one troll corpse. (The
> rate wasn't far off that before the corpse either.)
>

Troll corpse effects are pretty weak, they can only lower the natural
regen rate by 1, and then only sometimes.


Well, I suppose it's as good a time as any to post *exactly* how healing
works =)
some of this information fits in several parts of the guidebook (the
regeneration section, talents, etc.), I'll help point it out when I get
a chance or if Andy misses anywhere ;) 

There are 3 possible sources of normal healing which all trigger
seperately (so all 3 can happen in a single turn). Each time one of
these sources is triggered (randomly or the right number of turns pass),
you heal an amount based on some seperate factors (always at least 1).
The 3 basic sources of healing are the natural healing that everyone
gets, the healing skill, and candle-born. The other ways you can heal
are regenerating equipment and the scarring tissue corruption.


The healing skill will activate randomly based on your healing skill
points / 1200. This means at 100 healing, it will activate every 12
turns, on average. (Much rarer when sick, about 4.5 times slower)

Candle-born PCs will heal every 12 turns automatically.

Your natural regeneration rate is based on a few more things. First, you
have your natural rate defined by your race and any trolls you've eaten
or troll blood drank. This base number cannot be lower than 5. Then it's
multipled by 10 if you're sick (you heal 10 times slower). If you have
the healthy talent, this is multiplied by 0.8 (20% more often). After
that, if you're wearing a necklace of rapid healing, this number is
multipled by 0.5 (1/2) if the necklace is uncursed or 0.125 (1/8) if the
necklace is blessed (no change if cursed). After all that, if the number
is less than 2 it instead equals 2 (you can't heal this way more than
every 2 turns). Finally, if you have rotting armor, the number is
multiplied by 10 here. This final number is how often you heal naturally
- how many turns between each healing.

Now, every time you do in fact heal in any of these 3 methods, you gain
an amount of HP, starting at 1. You get +1 if you're a level 6+ healer
and another +1 if you're level 12+. Bards level 32+ also get +1, as do
druids level 32+ that are in the wilderness. Characters born under the
candle also get +1. Finally, if you're in an 'herbs an antiseptics' room
you get +1, a 'refreshing' room gives +3.

Seperate from all of this, regenerating equipment gives you 1 HP each
and every turn. The tissue corruption gives you 1 HP every 5 turns (but
beware of the scars).

SO, If you are a Level 12+ Candle-born Healer wearing Preserver, 2 rings
of regeneration, bracers of regeneraton, a crown of regeneration, and
two knifes of endurance in a Refreshing room, as well as having the
regenerating corruption you could potentially heal as much as 29 HP in a
single turn.


In summary, the healing skill is far from nessecary, but is certainly
nice. Any candle-born player is guaranteed to heal 2 hp every 12 turns,
which is much more powerful than either the healing skill or being a
troll (but does become even more powerful when combined with either).
Also, the healthy talent is far from nessecary for a candle-born PC. It
helps a little bit, but not significantly enough to bother with if you
have anything better to get. Get it early or not at all I'd say.

Another side note is that amulets of health only protect against
sickness (they always prevent the final fit, and I think they make you
get better faster) - they do nothing with actual healing.

----
NOW, on to PP regeneration. PP regeneration is a lot less interesting;
you can only regenerate PP from one source during a turn no matter what.

If you're on the little magical island in Terinyo, you automatically
regenerate PP.

You have your natural rate for this just like you do for HP. If it hits
that turn, you regenerate PP.

There is a _(1/30)_ chance to regenerate a pp if you have the charged
talent, and as I've said this doesn't even stack on top of other stuff
so it is, in effect, even less than that 3.33%! This talent is probably
worse than most people thought it was; the only use I could see for it
is for characters without the concentration skill; it might be
marginally useful there.

Empowered armor gives you a 5% chance (1/20) to regen.

The mana battery corruption gives you a 10% (1/10) chance for regeneration.

Concentration is the big one. It is also much more important to have
this high than it is to have healing high. If you want to use spells on
a regular basis, you'll basically need concentration. You get checks
based on concentration skill / 500. However, if you have >= 75
concentration, you get a second check. Concentration >= 90 nets another
check, and concentration = 100 nets yet another check.
What this means:
Having Concentration at 100 is literally 4 times better than having it
at 74! Get it up as quickly as possible. Other numbers:
100 concentration is 22% better than 99 concentration,
14.8% chance for regen with 74 concentration alone,
48.42% chance to regen at 99 concentration (alone),
59.04% chance to regenerate with 100 concentration (alone),
60.27% chance with 100 con & charged talent,
66.03% with 100 con, charged talent, empowered armor, and mana battery
corruption.

And of course, anti-magical armor stops all PP regeneration.

I'm going to repeat myself and say that PP regeneration is different
from HP regeneration, and once one triggers that's it, you regenerate
PP. The only way to regenerate more than 1 PP in a turn is from class
bonuses. Level 40+ bards get 2 PP each time they regen, and level 12+
druides get 2 PP each time if they're in the wilderness.


----

Here's some mediocre formulas which might be easier to read for some
people (this is just the _same information_ as listed above in a
different format):

RegenRate is how often you heal, not how much. It is determined as follows:
RegenRate = Max((NaturalRegen * Sickness * HealthyTalent *
NecklaceRapidHealing),2) * RottingArmor
(Like nearly all ADOM calculations, all decimals are truncated after
every operation)
*Natural Regen: Your natural regeneration rate; cannot be lower than 5.
*Sickness: If you're sick, 10; 1 otherwise
*Healthy Talent: .8 if you have the Healthy talent, 1 otherwise
*Necklace of Rapid Healing: 0.5 if uncursed, 0.125 if Blessed, 1 otherwise
*Rotting Armor: 10 if wearing, 1 otherwise
So if your natural regeneration rate is 10 and you are wearing an
uncursed necklace of rapid healing, you will heal every 5 turns.

The healing skill provides additional random chances for regeneration as
follows:
*HealingSkillRate = (HealingSkill / (1200 * Sickness))%
*Healing Skill: Your healing skill amount, up to 100
*Sickness: 4.67 if Sick, 1 otherwise
So if you have 100 healing, you have a 0.833% chance each turn to heal
(0.388% if sick).

CandleRate = 12
Every 12 turns, a Candle-born PC heals.

Now, each time you heal in any of the 3 methods above, you gain an
amount of HP as follows:
AmountHealed = 1 + ClassBonus + CandleBonus + RoomBonus
*Class Bonus: Healers get 1, Healers level 12 or higher get 2. Bards
Level 32 or higher get 1. Druids level 32 or higher that are in the
wilderness get 1.
*Candle Bonus: PC's born under the Candle get 1.
*Room Bonus: 'Refreshing' room gives 3, and 'Herbs and Antiseptics' gives 1.

Seperate from this, Every peice of regenerating equipment you are
wearing (not counting the necklace of rapid healing) heals 1HP EVERY TURN.
Finally, The Regenerating Corruption Gives you 1HP every 5 turns (Beware
the scars though!)
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 4:44:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:44:14 -0700, Twinge wrote:

> Your natural regeneration rate is based on a few more things. First, you
> have your natural rate defined by your race and any trolls you've eaten or
> troll blood drank. This base number cannot be lower than 5. Then it's

The Guidebook notes that trolls may not make use of troll's blood to lower
regeneration time, and that corpses may not be used to lower regen time
below 6.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 27, 2004 8:40:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

frobnoid wrote:
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> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:44:14 -0700, Twinge wrote:
>
>
>> Your natural regeneration rate is based on a few more things.
>> First, you have your natural rate defined by your race and any
>> trolls you've eaten or troll blood drank. This base number cannot
>> be lower than 5. Then it's
>
>
> The Guidebook notes that trolls may not make use of troll's blood to
> lower regeneration time, and that corpses may not be used to lower
> regen time below 6.
>

This is correct. Corpses will lower it by 1 if blessed and have a 50%
chance to lower it by 1 otherwise, no lower than 6. (Shadow Trolls
always lower it by 1 no matter what the status, but they also decrease
toughness.)

Troll blood decreases this by 2d3 if uncursed, 4d3 if blessed, and
increases it by 2d3 if cursed. This can't lower it to less than 5 nor
can it raise it past 200.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 6:08:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> KevinO wrote:
>
>> {spoiler space}
>>
>> Y
>> e
>> t
>>
>> a
>> n
>> o
>> t
>> h
>> e
>> r
>>
>> g
>> u
>> i
>> d
>> e
>> b
>> o
>> o
>> k
>>
>> u
>> p
>> d
>> a
>> t
>> e
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>
>> Not detailed technical information I'm afraid, but this is definately
>> worth a mention all the same.
>
>
> Did someone say 'detailed technical information'? =D
> Vlad pulled most of this information, I just retyped it to make it
> _hopefully_ understandable and readable ;) 
>
>> The guidebook states that it is essential to obtain the Healing skill.
>> Advanced strategies involving a lot of careful play and
>> herb-harvesting aside, a candle-born character with the healthy talent
>> is perfectly capable of getting through the game without healing. To
>> give one example, my Candle-born Gnomish Thief with Healthy but not
>> Healing is currently regenerating something in the region of 2
>> hitpoints every 12 turns, after one troll corpse. (The rate wasn't
>> far off that before the corpse either.)
>>
>
> Troll corpse effects are pretty weak, they can only lower the natural
> regen rate by 1, and then only sometimes.
>
>
> Well, I suppose it's as good a time as any to post *exactly* how healing
> works =)
> some of this information fits in several parts of the guidebook (the
> regeneration section, talents, etc.), I'll help point it out when I get
> a chance or if Andy misses anywhere ;) 
>
> There are 3 possible sources of normal healing which all trigger
> seperately (so all 3 can happen in a single turn). Each time one of
> these sources is triggered (randomly or the right number of turns pass),
> you heal an amount based on some seperate factors (always at least 1).
> The 3 basic sources of healing are the natural healing that everyone
> gets, the healing skill, and candle-born. The other ways you can heal
> are regenerating equipment and the scarring tissue corruption.
>
>
> The healing skill will activate randomly based on your healing skill
> points / 1200. This means at 100 healing, it will activate every 12
> turns, on average. (Much rarer when sick, about 4.5 times slower)
>
> Candle-born PCs will heal every 12 turns automatically.
>
> Your natural regeneration rate is based on a few more things. First, you
> have your natural rate defined by your race and any trolls you've eaten
> or troll blood drank. This base number cannot be lower than 5. Then it's
> multipled by 10 if you're sick (you heal 10 times slower). If you have
> the healthy talent, this is multiplied by 0.8 (20% more often). After
> that, if you're wearing a necklace of rapid healing, this number is
> multipled by 0.5 (1/2) if the necklace is uncursed or 0.125 (1/8) if the
> necklace is blessed (no change if cursed). After all that, if the number
> is less than 2 it instead equals 2 (you can't heal this way more than
> every 2 turns). Finally, if you have rotting armor, the number is
> multiplied by 10 here. This final number is how often you heal naturally
> - how many turns between each healing.
>
> Now, every time you do in fact heal in any of these 3 methods, you gain
> an amount of HP, starting at 1. You get +1 if you're a level 6+ healer
> and another +1 if you're level 12+. Bards level 32+ also get +1, as do
> druids level 32+ that are in the wilderness. Characters born under the
> candle also get +1. Finally, if you're in an 'herbs an antiseptics' room
> you get +1, a 'refreshing' room gives +3.
>
> Seperate from all of this, regenerating equipment gives you 1 HP each
> and every turn. The tissue corruption gives you 1 HP every 5 turns (but
> beware of the scars).
>
> SO, If you are a Level 12+ Candle-born Healer wearing Preserver, 2 rings
> of regeneration, bracers of regeneraton, a crown of regeneration, and
> two knifes of endurance in a Refreshing room, as well as having the
> regenerating corruption you could potentially heal as much as 29 HP in a
> single turn.
>
>
> In summary, the healing skill is far from nessecary, but is certainly
> nice. Any candle-born player is guaranteed to heal 2 hp every 12 turns,
> which is much more powerful than either the healing skill or being a
> troll (but does become even more powerful when combined with either).
> Also, the healthy talent is far from nessecary for a candle-born PC. It
> helps a little bit, but not significantly enough to bother with if you
> have anything better to get. Get it early or not at all I'd say.
>
> Another side note is that amulets of health only protect against
> sickness (they always prevent the final fit, and I think they make you
> get better faster) - they do nothing with actual healing.
>
> ----
> NOW, on to PP regeneration. PP regeneration is a lot less interesting;
> you can only regenerate PP from one source during a turn no matter what.
>
> If you're on the little magical island in Terinyo, you automatically
> regenerate PP.
>
> You have your natural rate for this just like you do for HP. If it hits
> that turn, you regenerate PP.
>
> There is a _(1/30)_ chance to regenerate a pp if you have the charged
> talent, and as I've said this doesn't even stack on top of other stuff
> so it is, in effect, even less than that 3.33%! This talent is probably
> worse than most people thought it was; the only use I could see for it
> is for characters without the concentration skill; it might be
> marginally useful there.
>
> Empowered armor gives you a 5% chance (1/20) to regen.
>
> The mana battery corruption gives you a 10% (1/10) chance for regeneration.
>
> Concentration is the big one. It is also much more important to have
> this high than it is to have healing high. If you want to use spells on
> a regular basis, you'll basically need concentration. You get checks
> based on concentration skill / 500. However, if you have >= 75
> concentration, you get a second check. Concentration >= 90 nets another
> check, and concentration = 100 nets yet another check.
> What this means:
> Having Concentration at 100 is literally 4 times better than having it
> at 74! Get it up as quickly as possible. Other numbers:
> 100 concentration is 22% better than 99 concentration,
> 14.8% chance for regen with 74 concentration alone,
> 48.42% chance to regen at 99 concentration (alone),
> 59.04% chance to regenerate with 100 concentration (alone),
> 60.27% chance with 100 con & charged talent,
> 66.03% with 100 con, charged talent, empowered armor, and mana battery
> corruption.
>
> And of course, anti-magical armor stops all PP regeneration.
>
> I'm going to repeat myself and say that PP regeneration is different
> from HP regeneration, and once one triggers that's it, you regenerate
> PP. The only way to regenerate more than 1 PP in a turn is from class
> bonuses. Level 40+ bards get 2 PP each time they regen, and level 12+
> druides get 2 PP each time if they're in the wilderness.
>
>
> ----
>
> Here's some mediocre formulas which might be easier to read for some
> people (this is just the _same information_ as listed above in a
> different format):
>
> RegenRate is how often you heal, not how much. It is determined as follows:
> RegenRate = Max((NaturalRegen * Sickness * HealthyTalent *
> NecklaceRapidHealing),2) * RottingArmor
> (Like nearly all ADOM calculations, all decimals are truncated after
> every operation)
> *Natural Regen: Your natural regeneration rate; cannot be lower than 5.
> *Sickness: If you're sick, 10; 1 otherwise
> *Healthy Talent: .8 if you have the Healthy talent, 1 otherwise
> *Necklace of Rapid Healing: 0.5 if uncursed, 0.125 if Blessed, 1 otherwise
> *Rotting Armor: 10 if wearing, 1 otherwise
> So if your natural regeneration rate is 10 and you are wearing an
> uncursed necklace of rapid healing, you will heal every 5 turns.
>
> The healing skill provides additional random chances for regeneration as
> follows:
> *HealingSkillRate = (HealingSkill / (1200 * Sickness))%
> *Healing Skill: Your healing skill amount, up to 100
> *Sickness: 4.67 if Sick, 1 otherwise
> So if you have 100 healing, you have a 0.833% chance each turn to heal
> (0.388% if sick).
>
> CandleRate = 12
> Every 12 turns, a Candle-born PC heals.
>
> Now, each time you heal in any of the 3 methods above, you gain an
> amount of HP as follows:
> AmountHealed = 1 + ClassBonus + CandleBonus + RoomBonus
> *Class Bonus: Healers get 1, Healers level 12 or higher get 2. Bards
> Level 32 or higher get 1. Druids level 32 or higher that are in the
> wilderness get 1.
> *Candle Bonus: PC's born under the Candle get 1.
> *Room Bonus: 'Refreshing' room gives 3, and 'Herbs and Antiseptics'
> gives 1.
>
> Seperate from this, Every peice of regenerating equipment you are
> wearing (not counting the necklace of rapid healing) heals 1HP EVERY TURN.
> Finally, The Regenerating Corruption Gives you 1HP every 5 turns (Beware
> the scars though!)

Man, no one was even interested in this info? ;O
January 9, 2005 8:58:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
[big snip]

> Man, no one was even interested in this info? ;O

Actually, I'm archiving the bulk of your posts ;)  A lot of the information
you've put up here hasn't shown up in the guidebook, and it is extremely
useful for playing the game. I've even contemplated mailing you directly to
pester you with some specifics (b/u/c status on all items, what each does,
some other random tidbits), but I figure you're busy enough with the random
requests that show up in the group.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 8:58:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Marcus wrote:
> Twinge wrote:
> [big snip]
>
>
>>Man, no one was even interested in this info? ;O
>
>
> Actually, I'm archiving the bulk of your posts ;)  A lot of the
> information you've put up here hasn't shown up in the guidebook, and
> it is extremely useful for playing the game. I've even contemplated
> mailing you directly to pester you with some specifics (b/u/c status
> on all items, what each does, some other random tidbits), but I
> figure you're busy enough with the random requests that show up in
> the group.

Awesome.

Look up some of Vladamir's old posts for more of the same; he's the one
who set me up with all this disassembly action and has certainly posted
his share of info that's been 'lost' (hasn't become common knowledge or
appeared in the guidebook).

Feel free to email me specific questions and I'll see what I can do.
I've mainly been looking up stuff that interests me (corpse effects is
what started my involvement with the internals -- I was asking Vlad
about it and he said 'have you seen the disassembly?') or things
requested that are easy enough to look up (I am moderately lazy, so if
it's a lot of effort to decipher something relatively meaningless I'll
generally pass). Email twinge [ at ] gmail [ dot ] com instead of the
homelesspete one.

'All items' is way to general to look up, but again, if you have
anything specific I'll see what I can do =)

(I think I should probably avoid posting my 100k odd worth of text notes
and guidebook update info at least until some of the corpse effects get
incorpated, hehe. I feel like a fortune cookie: "You can't play a flute
underwater." "Giving hatchets to the carpenter raises your bridge
building." "Giving candy to Blup raises alignment more than giving candy
to children.")
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:32:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
@individual.net:


> 'All items' is way to general to look up, but again, if you have
> anything specific I'll see what I can do =)
>
> (I think I should probably avoid posting my 100k odd worth of text
notes
> and guidebook update info at least until some of the corpse effects get
> incorpated, hehe. I feel like a fortune cookie: "You can't play a flute
> underwater." "Giving hatchets to the carpenter raises your bridge
> building." "Giving candy to Blup raises alignment more than giving
candy
> to children.")

Actually, could you e-mail these notes to me at netbrian(removethis)
@aol.com? I'm very curious indeed as to what you found out, especially
with regards to skill increases and fooling around with alignment.

Also, with regards to healing... Ignoring powers such as the Healer's
for a moment, does class factor into regeneration rate at all?

Oh! Another quick note -- could you give me a quick rundown on
Dodge/Alertness within combat? Specifically, I want to know if they're
like Concentration or Athletics in that hitting certain points gives you
better multipliers, or like Healing in that 90 versus 100 makes very
little difference indeed. I'd truly love to know.

Thank you so much for your hard work!

Netbrian
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:32:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Netbrian wrote:
> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
> @individual.net:
>
>
>
>> 'All items' is way to general to look up, but again, if you have
>> anything specific I'll see what I can do =)
>>
>> (I think I should probably avoid posting my 100k odd worth of text
>> notes and guidebook update info at least until some of the corpse
>> effects get incorpated, hehe. I feel like a fortune cookie: "You
>> can't play a flute underwater." "Giving hatchets to the carpenter
>> raises your bridge building." "Giving candy to Blup raises
>> alignment more than giving candy to children.")
>
> Actually, could you e-mail these notes to me at netbrian(removethis)
> @aol.com? I'm very curious indeed as to what you found out,
> especially with regards to skill increases and fooling around with
> alignment.

Well, for everyone's enjoyment (or lack thereof?) here's a list of
random factoids (some fairly common knowledge or stuff that I've
recently mentioned, others not)... I'll email you some unsorted
disorganized notes if you really want them I suppose ;) 

Amulet of protection from undead protects against banshee's wail a
little bit; it only does a lot of damage (20d15) instead of causing
instant death.
Bandaging a wound can cause sickness (you catch a disease).
Barbarians take more experience to level up than other classes do, while
healers and farmers take the least.
Bards always start with a wand of light.
Berserkers never leave corpses.
Blessed pickaxes break almost 7 times less than cursed or uncursed
pickaxes.
Blup enjoys candy more than children do.
Broken weapons deal half the stated damage.
Candle-born characters are guaranteed to heal 2 hitpoints every 12
turns.
Damage is increased by 10 in 'chilling silence' rooms.
Dwarven merchants start with more gold than anyone else.
Dwarves have a far higher chance of recieving rolf's savior as a quest
reward.
Eating a dark sage can grant you literacy if you don't already have it.
Eating a fairy dragon cures sickness.
Eating a swamp hydra has a 1 in 1000 chance to sicken you instead of
confuse you.
Eating candy negatively trains toughness.
Eating ratling guardian corpses raises your alignment.
Giant Boars have a 1 in 3 chance to drop a giant boar skull when killed.
Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
Giving hatchets to the carpenter raises your bridge building.
Giving the village healer healing equipment raises your alignment.
Having 100 in your concentration skill is 4 times better than having
only 74.
Hurtling Assassins always start with boomerangs.
If you're wearing a blessed ring of the master cat, cats are generated
non-hostile.
If you're wearing a necklace of rabies resistance, the
blessed/uncursed/cursed status determines how satiating a rabid dog
corpse is.
If you dual weild the Dwarven Shield & the Dwarven Rune Axe, you get a
+10 bonus to hit and damage.
If you whip yourself to death, your alignment will go up a lot.
Iron Boots and Spiked Boots both give increases to kick damage.
Long bows shoot farther than short bows.
Monks can't get a True Berserker bonus.
Monks don't lose mana when creating scrolls.
Negative alignment changes are actually _increased_ by the Unicorn
birthsign.
Pissing off one God makes the others happy.
Pools have about a 1% chance of granting a wish.
Recieving the weird tome sets your literacy to 100.
Rusty weapons do half thier normal damage.
The blessed/uncursed/cursed status of morgia roots doesn't matter for
training at all.
The dodge and alertness skills both factor into dodging bolt spells.
The Holy Avenger sword deals double damage for Paladins.
The more seeds you give farmers, the less alignment raised with each.
The ratling rebel will reward you with a scroll of peace if you slay the
arena master.
The raven birthsign gives you a 1 in 4 chance to evade a doppleganger's
confusion attack.
The Sixth Sense talent gives you a 1 in 6 chance to evade an
undiscovered trap.
Wizards born under the Salamander (birthsign) always start with the Fire
Bolt spell.
Wizards, priests, druids, and necromancers are 10 times more likely to
find spellbooks.
You always fall at least once when entering the rift.
You can't play a flute underwater.
You can complete the frog quest without ever drinking from a pool.
You can tame a barbarian with a wedding ring, but only if they are the
_same_ gender as you.
You cannot get a true berserker bonus unless you are weilding a weapon.
You gain a small amount of experience from sacrificing monsters.

> Also, with regards to healing... Ignoring powers such as the Healer's
> for a moment, does class factor into regeneration rate at all?

Only the ones I listed; healers' and bards' class powers depending on level.

> Oh! Another quick note -- could you give me a quick rundown on
> Dodge/Alertness within combat? Specifically, I want to know if
> they're like Concentration or Athletics in that hitting certain
> points gives you better multipliers, or like Healing in that 90
> versus 100 makes very little difference indeed. I'd truly love to
> know.

Athletics, at least as far as stat training, doesn't tier like
concentration; it's linear like most stuff.

Dodge and Alertness are both linear (like healing) when dodging bolt
spells and traps; dunno how exactly dodge factors into melee combat
(alertness doesn't at all as far as I've seen).
January 10, 2005 3:33:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

> Dwarves have a far higher chance of recieving rolf's savior as a quest
> reward.

Ahh interesting, I figured I got it due to my L+ alignment, apparently it
was my race.

> Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.

Now *that* is clever. Is there any in-game reference to this whatsoever?
Chatting with them when they're peaceful? It makes sense, but I can't
imagine EVER doing it accidentally (or intuiting it, as it is such a special
case).

> Giving hatchets to the carpenter raises your bridge building.

Interesting. Any in-game reference to this either?

> Giving the village healer healing equipment raises your alignment.

And again.

> Iron Boots and Spiked Boots both give increases to kick damage.

Logical. Query - other than monks, do any other classes get good kick
damage? For that matter, does kicking have any real purpose as a combat
tool, or is it more useful for booting doors down?

> The Holy Avenger sword deals double damage for Paladins.

Interesting. Is this visible as an ingame modification with W?

> The ratling rebel will reward you with a scroll of peace if you slay
> the arena master.

Cute!

> The raven birthsign gives you a 1 in 4 chance to evade a
> doppleganger's confusion attack.

Very interesting.

> The Sixth Sense talent gives you a 1 in 6 chance to evade an
> undiscovered trap.

Nice.

Very interesting stuff. Out of curiosity, would you be interested in working
on a... hmm. How to describe it. 'info packed' newbie guide? Sort of an
inbetween version of the manual and the guidebook. Basically a lot of useful
details about mechanics, how commands, classes, abilities, and attributes
function, etc. I'd be willing to do the legwork as far as organizing and
presenting information, but I don't have the means of extracting the answers
to certain questions.

Then again, I'm not sure how many new people discover Adom these days...
January 10, 2005 5:11:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> Marcus wrote:
>> Twinge wrote:
>> [big snip]

>>> Man, no one was even interested in this info? ;O
>>
>> Actually, I'm archiving the bulk of your posts ;) 
[SNIP]
>
> Awesome.

Yeah, I didn't realise that there hadn't been comment on this
thread either. ..Like most of your posts that have appeared
lately: explaining Herb Picking, Room Effects, Spellbook Creation
probabilities, etc. I immediately stopped whatever else I was
doing, gave it a thorough read thru. Went "wow, I didn't know
that" to a few points. And promptly saved the post in my Adom
Documents directory for later reference.

At this point I would like to say "Twinge, you rock." And, of
course "Vladmir, you rock too." All this info that's been comming
out of the code lately have been most interesting. Oh, and of
course the huge amount of info that has come from Vladimir's site
on, well, everything .. not to mention that cool AdomBot program.

And I must mention ToGu as well, who has given many many helpful
interpretations of code too, and patches to make things bearable
in 1.1.1. "You sir, rock."

Nathan.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:57:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge stated:

(Using this quoted text as spoiler space. So don't blame me for "snip
what you are not quoting"!)

> Netbrian wrote:
> > Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
> > @individual.net:
> >
> >
> >
> >> 'All items' is way to general to look up, but again, if you have
> >> anything specific I'll see what I can do =)
> >>
> >> (I think I should probably avoid posting my 100k odd worth of text
> >> notes and guidebook update info at least until some of the corpse
> >> effects get incorpated, hehe. I feel like a fortune cookie: "You
> >> can't play a flute underwater." "Giving hatchets to the carpenter
> >> raises your bridge building." "Giving candy to Blup raises
> >> alignment more than giving candy to children.")
> >
> > Actually, could you e-mail these notes to me at netbrian(removethis)
> > @aol.com? I'm very curious indeed as to what you found out,
> > especially with regards to skill increases and fooling around with
> > alignment.
>
> Well, for everyone's enjoyment (or lack thereof?) here's a list of
> random factoids (some fairly common knowledge or stuff that I've
> recently mentioned, others not)... I'll email you some unsorted
> disorganized notes if you really want them I suppose ;) 

> Eating a fairy dragon cures sickness.

Very good thing to know.


> If you whip yourself to death, your alignment will go up a lot.

How am I supposed to use this alignment bonus after whipping myself to
death? Amulet of life saving?

> Wizards, priests, druids, and necromancers are 10 times more likely to
> find spellbooks.

Very interesting one... because I was wondering why spellbooks are rare
for elementalists.
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W

"People told me I can't dress like a fairy.
I say, I'm in a rock band and I can do what the hell I want!"
-- Amy Lee

Running on: 300MHz Pentium, 128MB RAM, 8.4GB HD, 56k modem, Windows 98
SE
Mozilla Firefox 1.0, Gravity 2.70, Wget as downloader
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:57:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Chaos Master wrote:
> Twinge stated:

Spoily random factoid action.
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..


>
>
>> Netbrian wrote:
>>
>>> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
>>> @individual.net:
>>>
>>
>> Well, for everyone's enjoyment (or lack thereof?) here's a list of
>> random factoids (some fairly common knowledge or stuff that I've
>> recently mentioned, others not)... I'll email you some unsorted
>> disorganized notes if you really want them I suppose ;) 
> [snipped factoids]
>
>> Eating a fairy dragon cures sickness.
>
>
> Very good thing to know.

Much more common (and thus more useful - fairy dragons are very rare) is
that drinking potions of healing can cure sickness too. Healers don't
really have to worry about sickness because they start with many potions
of healing which should last until other methods (spell, herbs) are
found. I've definately found this one useful considering sickness was
one of my greatest early-game fears.

Also, amulets of health deal with sickness. You will cure from sickness
faster wearing one, and you won't ever have the 'final fit' attack
wearing one.

Amulets of rabies resistance make rabid dog corpses edible. I haven't
seen _anything_ else that they do ;)  (how satiating the corpse is
depends on the B/U/C status of the amulet)

>> If you whip yourself to death, your alignment will go up a lot.
>
>
> How am I supposed to use this alignment bonus after whipping myself
> to death? Amulet of life saving?
>

I hadn't even thought of managing to live through it (mecromancer level
50 ability would work too -- might possibly be useful there if you
really need to be lawful, but there should still be better methods)... I
noted that one down because it was funny ;)  It might affect final score
too, I forget.

>> Wizards, priests, druids, and necromancers are 10 times more likely
>> to find spellbooks.
>
> Very interesting one... because I was wondering why spellbooks are
> rare for elementalists.

Paladins also get a small bonus, 2.5 times as much. Elementalists and
Healers really get shafted ;) 


...


>> Dwarves have a far higher chance of recieving rolf's savior as a
>> quest reward.
>
>
> Ahh interesting, I figured I got it due to my L+ alignment,
> apparently it was my race.

You do have to be lawful to recieve it, but you also have to get lucky.
Even dwarves don't have a 1 in 2 chance: Non-dwarves have a 1/6 chance
of Rolf's savior being available (set at character creation), and
dwarves have that 1/6 chance plus a 1/3 chance which combines to a 44.4%
chance.

As for the other equipment, it does depend specifically on class.
Fighter-type classes (I forget which ones exactly, I'll look it up again
if anyone is interested) get the fighting gear (randomly addy or mith
for each piece) and the other classes get the blankets and stuff.


>> Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
>
>
> Now *that* is clever. Is there any in-game reference to this
> whatsoever? Chatting with them when they're peaceful? It makes sense,
> but I can't imagine EVER doing it accidentally (or intuiting it, as
> it is such a special case).

Yeah, I was looking through all of the 'Give Items to Monsters'
subroutines, and that was one of the stranger ones :)  I don't know that
there is any mention of that, though I'm thinking that there is some
mention to the special features of fish meat (I don't know where, I
might be imagining it)... it's not something most players would even get
at all in the first place. You can also tame giant racoons (diggers) and
(this one is already known) some cats with fish meat. The B/U/C status
of the fish (or giant rat corpses for cats) factors in too.

After finding this in the disassembly I did test giving fish meat to
black hurtlings in game and they do indeed become tame.

>> Giving hatchets to the carpenter raises your bridge building.
>
> Interesting. Any in-game reference to this either?

I don't think so. You'll also learn more the higher your learning score
is... useful considering this is the only way besides actually using the
skill to raise it that I know of. (It's almost always maxed out at level
up, and repeatedly reading the manual or talking to the carpenter
doesn't seem to ever raise it at all.) Amount of skill raised is
Learning * 0.8 + 2d5, I believe.

>> Giving the village healer healing equipment raises your alignment.
>
> And again.

This is abuseable; have some way of showing mercy a lot and you can give
him the stuff he gives you for an alignment boost!

The items and thier alignment boosts: Stethescope = 250, Extra Healing =
150, Healing = 50, Ultra Healing = 250, Cure Poison = 100 (As mentioned
earlier, the alignment boost values are base values, modified by some
other factors)

>> Iron Boots and Spiked Boots both give increases to kick damage.
>
>
> Logical. Query - other than monks, do any other classes get good kick
> damage? For that matter, does kicking have any real purpose as a
> combat tool, or is it more useful for booting doors down?

Not really. I don't even bother with it for monks, too much effort. They
increase some automatically (1 for iron boots and 4 for spiked) and an
additional 1 for every PV the boots give.


>> The Holy Avenger sword deals double damage for Paladins.
>
>
> Interesting. Is this visible as an ingame modification with W?

I'd assume so, but I haven't seen it personally.

>> The ratling rebel will reward you with a scroll of peace if you
>> slay the arena master.
>
>
> Cute!

A decent alignment drop too :p 

>> The raven birthsign gives you a 1 in 4 chance to evade a
>> doppleganger's confusion attack.
>
>
> Very interesting.

I was kind of hoping it would be more than 1/4 personally, but *shrug* ;) 

>> The Sixth Sense talent gives you a 1 in 6 chance to evade an
>> undiscovered trap.
>
>
> Nice.

Alertness also gives you an alertness / 600 chance to evade a new trap
-- so 1/6 at 100 alertness. There is also a pretty small chance based on
your mana that you will avoid a trap entirely (not even discover it).

> Very interesting stuff. Out of curiosity, would you be interested in
> working on a... hmm. How to describe it. 'info packed' newbie guide?
> Sort of an inbetween version of the manual and the guidebook.
> Basically a lot of useful details about mechanics, how commands,
> classes, abilities, and attributes function, etc. I'd be willing to
> do the legwork as far as organizing and presenting information, but I
> don't have the means of extracting the answers to certain questions.
>
>
> Then again, I'm not sure how many new people discover Adom these
> days...

I'd consider it, mainly because Andy seems to actually have enough of a
life that he can't update the guidebook constantly =) We'll see.
Probably end up being a nice list of the stuff that Vladamir, ToGu, and
I pull out; perhaps kind of a Guidebook addendum, or a 'not yet added'
list for the guidebook, etc. etc.
This kind of info is far from only useful to newbies; I'd say it's worth
more to experienced players, really.


More interesting 'give items to monsters' stuff:

Giving books or scrolls to the ghost librarian (not blank scrolls) will
bless you (or increase the amount of time you'll be blessed) for 2000 turns.

Turning in bounties to the sherrif raises alignment too; half of the
bounty paid.

Giving food to any humanoids raises alignment by 100? <-- I haven't
tested this one, there might be some other caveats.

600 alignment for giving the cute dog corpse to the tiny girl.

Candy to children is +2 alignment per piece of candy, to Blup it's +10.

Dragons get pissed off if you give them dragon scale or dragon-hide
gauntlets of the appropriate color (white and black scale is switched
for some reason).

A variable keeps track of how many seeds you've given farmers and
reduces your alignment gain the more you give based on a formula. (To
prevent abuse of getting seeds via survival I guess.)

If the fool is angry at you (depends on how you make him angry I think)
he'll only give you either potions of sickness or of poison instead of
the normal random for booze.

Giving Bart the ratling pamphlet is entertaining.

Blink Dogs, Big Dogs, Large Dogs, and the Cute Dog can be tamed by bones
-- useful if you accidentally tick off the cute dog.

There seemed to be something that give you a random color of worthless
glass in exchange for an artifact, but nothing actually referenced it so
it's probably unused old code. (ratling rebel is elsewhere)

Anything classified as an animal can be calmed with raw or fresh meat.

Giving children weapons is entertaining as well.

Black Unicorns are the only non-unique monsters that can net you a PoCC
from the Druid.

+5000 aligment for saving Kelly.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 11:38:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
> Netbrian wrote:
>> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
>> @individual.net:
>>

Since

Twinge

Complained

That

Nobody

Comments

His

Wonderfull

Posts

(Masterpieces

I Would

Say)

Here

Goes

My

Nitpicking

After

A Spoiler

Space.

> Amulet of protection from undead protects against banshee's wail a
> little bit; it only does a lot of damage (20d15) instead of causing
> instant death.
Aha, so one with 301HP could try :) 

> Bandaging a wound can cause sickness (you catch a disease).
I new bandages was useless.

> Blessed pickaxes break almost 7 times less than cursed or uncursed
> pickaxes.
I suspected that.

> Blup enjoys candy more than children do.
More white stones?

> Broken weapons deal half the stated damage.
This is shown by a :w command.

> Damage is increased by 10 in 'chilling silence' rooms.
Multiplied by 10, or just 10 added to the roll?

> Eating candy negatively trains toughness.
Ho hum. I seem to remember that this applied to gnomish candy only.
Plain candy is bad for health too? But children don't complain...

> Giant Boars have a 1 in 3 chance to drop a giant boar skull when killed.
I've been incredibly lucky with them than. Killed only few handfuls of
them in my entire adom carrier and would estimate chance at 1 in 2.
Isn't doomed/cursed status significant?

> Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
Wow.

> If you're wearing a blessed ring of the master cat, cats are generated
> non-hostile.
Wow again!

> If you're wearing a necklace of rabies resistance, the
> blessed/uncursed/cursed status determines how satiating a rabid dog
> corpse is.
They taste foul. But seem to be more satiating than large rations.

> If you dual weild the Dwarven Shield & the Dwarven Rune Axe, you get a
> +10 bonus to hit and damage.
Prefer SoCR more.

> If you whip yourself to death, your alignment will go up a lot.
I hear someone chuckling :) 

> Long bows shoot farther than short bows.
No, really?

> Negative alignment changes are actually _increased_ by the Unicorn
> birthsign.
Logical. Tree is the starsign for staying lawfull.

> Rusty weapons do half thier normal damage.
And then they break to have their damage halved once more.

> The blessed/uncursed/cursed status of morgia roots doesn't matter for
> training at all.
That's why I prefer cursed morgia -- it's less satiating and makes
starving sessions way shorter.

> Wizards born under the Salamander (birthsign) always start with the Fire
> Bolt spell.
And then die to fire beetles in the SMC.

> Wizards, priests, druids, and necromancers are 10 times more likely to
> find spellbooks.
This sentence sounds a bit incomplete. Like "This new windows system is
faster".

> You can't play a flute underwater.
How about blowing whistles?

brojek.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 11:38:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Netbrian wrote:
>>
>>>Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
>>>@individual.net:
>>>
>
>
> Since
>
> Twinge
>
> Complained
>
> That
>
> Nobody
>
> Comments
>
> His
>
> Wonderfull
>
> Posts
>
> (Masterpieces
>
> I Would
>
> Say)
>
> Here
>
> Goes
>
> My
>
> Nitpicking
>
> After
>
> A Spoiler
>
> Space.

I was just kind of surprised there wasn't a single reply to the mystery
of regeneration especially since several important points were noted
(charged talent being near useless, importance of very high
concentration, actual effects of several healing stuff).

>> Amulet of protection from undead protects against banshee's wail a
>> little bit; it only does a lot of damage (20d15) instead of causing
>> instant death.
>
> Aha, so one with 301HP could try :) 

Well the average damage would only be 160; over 200 would be quite rare.
Not that there's any reason to do it anyway, except for the 'hey, I
haven't tried this yet' factor.

I found this when I was trying to figure out what, if anything,
protection from undead and constructs actually did. Not much, it turns
out; they reduce something somewhere to 3/5 of blessed or 4/5 if
uncursed, but I haven't figured out _what_. It's not damage from such
creatures or anything so obvious; it has something to do with chances
for being hit by a corrupting attack or something, also based on PV...
it's strange. I asked Vlad to see if he could figure out what it
actually was since he's more experienced with the assembly (read: I'm lazy).


>> Bandaging a wound can cause sickness (you catch a disease).
>
> I new bandages was useless.

I know! I've never had it actually happen, but it was still surprising
to find that it was possible :)  (I didn't check the specifics; it's
based on luck and first aid skill)


>> Blessed pickaxes break almost 7 times less than cursed or uncursed
>> pickaxes.
>
> I suspected that.

I never thought that the difference between uncursed and blessed was so
massive; I was finding mining a painful process without the artifact
pickaxe in the past, assumedly because I was using uncursed picks.

>> Blup enjoys candy more than children do.
>
> More white stones?

Yeah; both effects are pretty minor though. (+10 for Blup, +2 for
children as base alignment change values)

>> Broken weapons deal half the stated damage.
>
> This is shown by a :w command.

Yep, as is rusty. I didn't know that rusty weapons did less damage than
normal or that broken was only 1/2 (and both were shown in the info)
until someone pointed it out to me ;) 

(:w by default is monster wound status, not weapon stats, but it was
obvious what you meant)

>
>> Damage is increased by 10 in 'chilling silence' rooms.
>
> Multiplied by 10, or just 10 added to the roll?

Good eye. Multiplied by 10. I think the 'crawling with life' room effect
actually decreases damage (tests have shown it has no effect on breeding
rates), but I'm not certain yet. (Haven't tested it or double-checked
the code)

>
>> Eating candy negatively trains toughness.
>
> Ho hum. I seem to remember that this applied to gnomish candy only.
> Plain candy is bad for health too? But children don't complain...

Both are, but gnomish candy is 10 times worse (-50 and -5).

>
>> Giant Boars have a 1 in 3 chance to drop a giant boar skull when
>> killed.
>
> I've been incredibly lucky with them than. Killed only few handfuls
> of them in my entire adom carrier and would estimate chance at 1 in
> 2. Isn't doomed/cursed status significant?

Not at all. Straight up 1 in 3 chance.

>
>> If you're wearing a blessed ring of the master cat, cats are
>> generated non-hostile.
>
> Wow again!

Not friendly either though, only non-hostile. You have to be wearing the
ring (either finger) and it has to be blessed.

>
>> If you're wearing a necklace of rabies resistance, the
>> blessed/uncursed/cursed status determines how satiating a rabid dog
>> corpse is.
>
> They taste foul. But seem to be more satiating than large rations.

With a blessed amulet, I think they actually are. (The corpse's status
doesn't matter)

>
>> If you dual weild the Dwarven Shield & the Dwarven Rune Axe, you
>> get a +10 bonus to hit and damage.
>
> Prefer SoCR more.

50% chance. Still worth the risk generally since the artifact isn't
particularily amazing even with the bonus, though the other end of the
50% is barely anything at all. I explained the shield's chances in
another reply.

>> If you whip yourself to death, your alignment will go up a lot.
>
> I hear someone chuckling :) 

Indeed! I re-read the code for that several times before I believed it;
first I thought it might be lowering your HP really low - say, to 1.

>
>> Long bows shoot farther than short bows.
>
> No, really?

Hehe. My brother asked, and I wasn't sure until I tried it :p  (Short bow
range has generally been plenty so I haven't noticed deficiences)

>
>> Negative alignment changes are actually _increased_ by the Unicorn
>> birthsign.
>
> Logical. Tree is the starsign for staying lawfull.

*Not* logical -- it's a bug. The same holds true for Wand and Book; all
3 of these birtsigns are supposed to reduce changes in negative aligment
(at least when lawful) but actually increase it. Tree does act as
advertised and diminishes all aligment changes. Amulets of balance do
too, but only if you're neutral. (/2 /4 /8 if C/U/B)

>
>> Rusty weapons do half thier normal damage.
>
> And then they break to have their damage halved once more.

Yep, 1/4 with both.

>
>> The blessed/uncursed/cursed status of morgia roots doesn't matter
>> for training at all.
>
> That's why I prefer cursed morgia -- it's less satiating and makes
> starving sessions way shorter.

They satiate so little it barely matters anyway; 10 compared to 25 IIRC,
with normal food being around 500ish.

>
>> Wizards, priests, druids, and necromancers are 10 times more likely
>> to find spellbooks.
>
> This sentence sounds a bit incomplete. Like "This new windows system
> is faster".

Hmm? Paladins get a bonus too, but that's it. There _should_ be more IMO
(Healers, Elementalists) but there aren't.

>
>> You can't play a flute underwater.
>
> How about blowing whistles?

I think you can actually, but I don't care enough to check =)
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:00:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chaos Master wrote:
>> Twinge stated:

> Spoily random factoid action.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .


More interesting 'give items to monsters' stuff:

> Giving books or scrolls to the ghost librarian (not blank scrolls) will
> bless you (or increase the amount of time you'll be blessed) for 2000 turns.

However, the Ghost librarian is picky. He likes "undead" stuff.
darkness and amnesia are best bets, light is dismissed with "this is
not one of our pieces".


> Dragons get pissed off if you give them dragon scale or dragon-hide
> gauntlets of the appropriate color (white and black scale is switched
> for some reason).
They cross-mate to breed zebra dragons, didn't you know?


> Giving Bart the ratling pamphlet is entertaining.
Ha, finally a use for that piece of paper!


> Blink Dogs, Big Dogs, Large Dogs, and the Cute Dog can be tamed by bones
> -- useful if you accidentally tick off the cute dog.
Frances described her proceedings with cute dog some long time ago.
She accidently attacked it in a room with flickering lights and
later tamed it with bones after dispatching tension room full of
skeletons.


brojek.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 1:09:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Thread so far:

> Spoily random factoid action.
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>>> Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
>>
>>
>> Now *that* is clever. Is there any in-game reference to this
>> whatsoever? Chatting with them when they're peaceful? It makes sense,
>> but I can't imagine EVER doing it accidentally (or intuiting it, as
>> it is such a special case).
>
> Yeah, I was looking through all of the 'Give Items to Monsters'
> subroutines, and that was one of the stranger ones

Makes perfect sense to me. If you postulate "Black Hurthling" = "Gollum",
then imagine Frodo and Gollum discussing "nice fisssssh", it all becomes
quite clear.

If you don't catch the Tolkien reference, how on earth did you get into
fantasy role playing games? :) 

-- Jeff
-- aka The Eternal Newbie :) 

--------------------------------------------------------------
The power of accurate observation is frequently called
cynicism by those who haven't got it. - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 1:17:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I wrote:

> Thread so far:
>
>> Spoily random factoid action.
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>>>> Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
>
> Makes perfect sense to me. If you postulate "Black Hurthling" = "Gollum",
> then imagine Frodo and Gollum discussing "nice fisssssh", it all becomes
> quite clear.

One additional thought on this matter: does it matter whether or not the
fish is cooked? As I recall, Gollum hated cooked fish, preferring it raw.
Perhaps this is also true of black hurthlings in general?

-- Jeff
-- aka The Eternal Newbie :) 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because,
if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of
reason, than that of blind-folded fear. -- Thomas Jefferson
--------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 1:39:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The Beerslayer wrote:
> Thread so far:
>
>
>>Spoily random factoid action.
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>>>>Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
>>>
>>>Now *that* is clever. Is there any in-game reference to this
>>>whatsoever? Chatting with them when they're peaceful? It makes sense,
>>>but I can't imagine EVER doing it accidentally (or intuiting it, as
>>>it is such a special case).
>>
>>Yeah, I was looking through all of the 'Give Items to Monsters'
>>subroutines, and that was one of the stranger ones
>
> Makes perfect sense to me. If you postulate "Black Hurthling" = "Gollum",
> then imagine Frodo and Gollum discussing "nice fisssssh", it all becomes
> quite clear.

If that IS the reference, do they refuse cooked fish meat? :p 
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 2:02:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> writes:

> Spoily random factoid action.
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> +5000 aligment for saving Kelly.

That seems incredibly high - in my experience, saving Khelly takes you
from N= to N+, not all the way to L+ as this would seem to imply. Did
you mean +500 alignment, or is +5000 the reward for saving him at
level 1, and it is reduced at higher levels?

I'd be interested to have more detail about the factors which modify
the "base" alignment changes - are they reduced as you level up?

Have you done any research into the effect on your alignment of
killing specific monsters? For example, killing a lawful is always
slightly chaotic, but killing a white unicorn is extremely chaotic,
and killing Blup's mum seems to be rather more chaotic than killing a
farmer.
Eva.

--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm1001@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:22:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
> Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
>> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Netbrian wrote:
>>>
>>>>Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote in news:34cjm8F4alfvfU1
>>>>@individual.net:
>>>>
>>
>>
>> Since
>>
>> Twinge
>>
>> Complained
>>
>> That
>>
>> Nobody
>>
>> Comments
>>
>> His
>>
>> Wonderfull
>>
>> Posts
>>
>> (Masterpieces
>>
>> I Would
>>
>> Say)
>>
>> Here
>>
>> Goes
>>
>> My
>>
>> Nitpicking
>>
>> After
>>
>> A Spoiler
>>
>> Space.

> I was just kind of surprised there wasn't a single reply to the mystery
> of regeneration especially since several important points were noted
> (charged talent being near useless, importance of very high
> concentration, actual effects of several healing stuff).


>>
>>> Damage is increased by 10 in 'chilling silence' rooms.
>>
>> Multiplied by 10, or just 10 added to the roll?

> Good eye. Multiplied by 10. I think the 'crawling with life' room effect
> actually decreases damage (tests have shown it has no effect on breeding
> rates), but I'm not certain yet. (Haven't tested it or double-checked
> the code)

That room increases PV to an absurd value. I had claw bugs punching
through my armour and failing to hurt me in this room.
Fortunately spells ignore the effect. Breeders benefit from other
room, with tiny white eggs on the floor.


>>> If you're wearing a necklace of rabies resistance, the
>>> blessed/uncursed/cursed status determines how satiating a rabid dog
>>> corpse is.
>>
>> They taste foul. But seem to be more satiating than large rations.

> With a blessed amulet, I think they actually are. (The corpse's status
> doesn't matter)

Ha. Some clarification at last. From original message it would seem that
corpse's status does matter.

>>
>>> Long bows shoot farther than short bows.
>>
>> No, really?

> Hehe. My brother asked, and I wasn't sure until I tried it :p  (Short bow
> range has generally been plenty so I haven't noticed deficiences)

You have never played a character with access to Farsight spell, have you?
Or burning torch in a tool slot, vigilant adamantium plate mail of
travelling, necklace of the eye, two rings of gain attribute {Pe+1},
and, say, two swift daggers of the eagle. Now combine that with
Farsight and willpower at 99 and you may discower that even long bow
with griffon-feathered or winged arrows has somewhat insufficient range.

However if it was Level 50 Archer with St of 99 and Far Slayer or
Sun's Messenger... Make's me wanting to switch from playing wizards
to see if it is possible to fire missile from one corner to another
of a standard wildernesss location :) 



>>
>>> Negative alignment changes are actually _increased_ by the Unicorn
>>> birthsign.
>>
>> Logical. Tree is the starsign for staying lawfull.

> *Not* logical -- it's a bug.
But unicorn is supposed to stay pure. So if it commits chaotic act
than the punishment should be higher. Just a thouuht :) 

> The same holds true for Wand and Book; all
> 3 of these birtsigns are supposed to reduce changes in negative aligment
> (at least when lawful) but actually increase it.

Now that indeed sounds like a bug.

>>
>>> The blessed/uncursed/cursed status of morgia roots doesn't matter
>>> for training at all.
>>
>> That's why I prefer cursed morgia -- it's less satiating and makes
>> starving sessions way shorter.

> They satiate so little it barely matters anyway; 10 compared to 25 IIRC,
> with normal food being around 500ish.

So how many morgias one has to eat to increase Willpower potential?
Let's say 8, tough my practice tells me that 12 work much better.
8 * 25 = 200. 200 turns spent on waiting for a stat to drop below
25. You can raise willpower to 53. Let's assume Starting willpower was
10 and raised to 20 while you have been harvesting morgias. That leaves
33 stats to go. Spontaneous stat increases happen about every 7 game
hours. So 33 increases mean 33 game days. One day for increasing potential,
and then actual stat. for It is logical to scum ID 24-25 during this time
for rings of djinni summoning. Potions of potential stat are also not
to be neglected.

33 * (200 + 100) = 9900 turns spent in a corrupting zone. At least one
corruption. Compare that to 33 * (80 + 40) in case of cursed morgia.
3960 turns. See my point?

Of course one could go and do other things than just wait for stat to
decrease. But I died from starvation every time I tried to pull that.
Got distracted by some out of depth monster and didn't pay attention
to my starvation status.

And by the way, I love being Strained! and having invisibility from
an item. They are such a saviours, corruption-wise.

>>> You can't play a flute underwater.
>>
>> How about blowing whistles?

> I think you can actually, but I don't care enough to check =)

My current character found a whistle, so I will check that
in the near future.

brojek.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:51:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Przemyslaw Brojewski <brojek@zly.kis.p.lodz.pl> writes:
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> However if it was Level 50 Archer with St of 99 and Far Slayer or
> Sun's Messenger... Make's me wanting to switch from playing wizards

I found archers far more fun than wizards. Once you get a little bit
of slaying ammunition you can do amazing things (killed Rehetep,
dwarftown demon, Griff Bloodax each with a single shot - sadly the ACW
needed two).

> to see if it is possible to fire missile from one corner to another
> of a standard wildernesss location :) 

With winged arrows, easily, well before level 50. I had a range of
several hundred with winged arrows by level 20-ish or possibly
earlier.

With normal arrows only(!) range ~60, but then, I only had strength in
the 30s.

--
Chris
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:32:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Chris Morris <c.i.morris@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> Przemyslaw Brojewski <brojek@zly.kis.p.lodz.pl> writes:
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>> However if it was Level 50 Archer with St of 99 and Far Slayer or
>> Sun's Messenger... Make's me wanting to switch from playing wizards

> I found archers far more fun than wizards. Once you get a little bit
> of slaying ammunition you can do amazing things (killed Rehetep,
> dwarftown demon, Griff Bloodax each with a single shot - sadly the ACW
> needed two).
Reheteps is a wimp. One zap of burning hands or indeed one shot with
slaying ammo from a near with a long bow. That's wizard for you.

I always kill Griff with holy water. One shouldn't be so savvy.

Sadly ACW needs about four blasts of Ice Ball, but then again, those
four blast kill lots of other scum along the way. Especially with
willpower of 53 + Sword of Nonak and amulet of perseverance on top of
that.

>> to see if it is possible to fire missile from one corner to another
>> of a standard wildernesss location :) 

> With winged arrows, easily, well before level 50. I had a range of
> several hundred with winged arrows by level 20-ish or possibly
> earlier.

That settles it than. My next early deaths will be archers.

brojek.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:37:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Chris Morris <c.i.morris@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> Przemyslaw Brojewski <brojek@zly.kis.p.lodz.pl> writes:
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>> However if it was Level 50 Archer with St of 99 and Far Slayer or
>> Sun's Messenger... Make's me wanting to switch from playing wizards

> I found archers far more fun than wizards. Once you get a little bit
> of slaying ammunition you can do amazing things (killed Rehetep,
> dwarftown demon, Griff Bloodax each with a single shot - sadly the ACW
> needed two).
Reheteps is a wimp. One zap of burning hands or indeed one shot with
slaying ammo from a near with a long bow. That's wizard for you.

I always kill Griff with holy water. One shouldn't be so thrifty.

Sadly ACW needs about four blasts of Ice Ball, but then again, those
four blast kill lots of other scum along the way. Especially with
willpower of 53 + Sword of Nonak and amulet of perseverance on top of
that.

>> to see if it is possible to fire missile from one corner to another
>> of a standard wildernesss location :) 

> With winged arrows, easily, well before level 50. I had a range of
> several hundred with winged arrows by level 20-ish or possibly
> earlier.

That settles it than. My next early deaths will be archers.

brojek.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Eva Myers wrote:
> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Spoily random factoid action.
>>.
>>.
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Whew, I get the messages for the newsgroup after only half a day has
elapses and there are 25 odd new messages! All responses to this stuff
in one thread here.

>> +5000 aligment for saving Kelly.
>
>
> That seems incredibly high - in my experience, saving Khelly takes
> you from N= to N+, not all the way to L+ as this would seem to imply.
> Did you mean +500 alignment, or is +5000 the reward for saving him at
> level 1, and it is reduced at higher levels?
>
> I'd be interested to have more detail about the factors which modify
> the "base" alignment changes - are they reduced as you level up?
>
> Have you done any research into the effect on your alignment of
> killing specific monsters? For example, killing a lawful is always
> slightly chaotic, but killing a white unicorn is extremely chaotic,
> and killing Blup's mum seems to be rather more chaotic than killing a
> farmer.

I haven't done much research into killing stuff; important ones would be
tested fairly easy with ADOMBot, so I might do that eventually. There
also may be seperate effects for both attacking a non-hostile and for
killing a lawful.

The base changes (as I've mentioned a few times, all alignment values
I've listed are base values modified by a formula. The most important
change is the higher your level, the lower the effect of positive
changes. Here's the basic info, though there is more to the formula I
haven't completely worked out (or written out legibley) yet.

Ranges from -10000 to +6000

Change
= * 1.2 If Negative and Unicorn (bug)
= * 0.9 If Tree
= * 1.15 If Negative and Book or Wand (bug)
= * (51 - PCLevel) * 0.02 If Change is Positive
= / 2\4\8 If wearing a C\U\B Amulet of Balance And Nuetral


.....


>>>> Damage is increased by 10 in 'chilling silence' rooms.
>>>
>>> Multiplied by 10, or just 10 added to the roll?
>
>
>> Good eye. Multiplied by 10. I think the 'crawling with life' room
>> effect actually decreases damage (tests have shown it has no effect
>> on breeding rates), but I'm not certain yet. (Haven't tested it or
>> double-checked the code)
>
>
> That room increases PV to an absurd value. I had claw bugs punching
> through my armour and failing to hurt me in this room. Fortunately
> spells ignore the effect. Breeders benefit from other room, with tiny
> white eggs on the floor.

I was thinking they were the same room for some reason, thought I'm not
certain breeders are actually affected by that one either.

Anyway, Melee damage looks to be reduced to 0.1 of it's normal amount in
a 'vibrating with life' room.

>> They satiate so little it barely matters anyway; 10 compared to 25
>> IIRC, with normal food being around 500ish.
>
>
> So how many morgias one has to eat to increase Willpower potential?
> Let's say 8, tough my practice tells me that 12 work much better. 8 *
> 25 = 200. 200 turns spent on waiting for a stat to drop below 25.
> You can raise willpower to 53. Let's assume Starting willpower was 10
> and raised to 20 while you have been harvesting morgias. That leaves
> 33 stats to go. Spontaneous stat increases happen about every 7 game
> hours. So 33 increases mean 33 game days. One day for increasing
> potential, and then actual stat. for It is logical to scum ID 24-25
> during this time for rings of djinni summoning. Potions of potential
> stat are also not to be neglected.
>
> 33 * (200 + 100) = 9900 turns spent in a corrupting zone. At least
> one corruption. Compare that to 33 * (80 + 40) in case of cursed
> morgia. 3960 turns. See my point?
>
> Of course one could go and do other things than just wait for stat to
> decrease. But I died from starvation every time I tried to pull
> that. Got distracted by some out of depth monster and didn't pay
> attention to my starvation status.

I don't abuse this nearly as much as I should ;)  I completely missed
your initial comment about starvation; yes, cursed are the best for that
by far. The amount you have to eat depends on your current stat amount
and chance (a little bit anyway).

Morgia Root trains toughness up to 25, 5d100+200; trains Willpower up to
25, 50d10. The maximum amount of training that can be 'stored' from root
(or moss) is 5000.

You'll need to eat about 18 on average to max out your training (from
root, other training can still raise it past that); 5000 training gives
you a great chance to raise potential, even pretty high: at 52 willpower
(maxed) you'll still have about a 5/6 chance to raise it. Also, whenever
training is checked, 1000 training points are reduced if it raises (not
maxed), 2000 points are reduced if it raises the max, and an additional
1000 points are always deducted. (So, you'll never 'lose' more than 3000
points of training, so it'll potentially take fewer roots to get back up
to the 5000 mark. 5000 training is a guaranteed increase when a stat is
maxed up to 42 of a stat as long as your learning is at least 10.)

> And by the way, I love being Strained! and having invisibility from
> an item. They are such a saviours, corruption-wise.

....eh? how?


.....


>> The ratling rebel will reward you with a scroll of peace if you
>> slay the arena master.
>
>
> I'm curious: is the generation of the ratling rebel non-guaranteed?
> In many games, I've not found him, and I'm not sure if he's not been
> generated, or simply been killed off by hostiles before I could
> reach him. It's not just an academic questions; scrolls of peace are
> rare and useful.

I'm pretty sure he is guaranteed. I've never _not_ seen him there,
personally, so I assume something just managed to take him out. Do note
that you will take an alignment hit not only for killing the non-hostile
Dak but for accepting the scroll as well.


.....


>> Giving books or scrolls to the ghost librarian (not blank scrolls)
>> will bless you (or increase the amount of time you'll be blessed)
>> for 2000 turns.
>
>
> However, the Ghost librarian is picky. He likes "undead" stuff.
> darkness and amnesia are best bets, light is dismissed with "this is
> not one of our pieces".

Maybe it has to be a type of scroll or book that spawned in the library
(varys between classes)... I only saw a specific exception to blank
scrolls, even re-checking it. Anything that is accepted raises your
blessed status the same amount no matter what it is, anyway.

>> Giving Bart the ratling pamphlet is entertaining.
>
> Ha, finally a use for that piece of paper!

Also potentially useful to train literacy? I forget.

>
>> Blink Dogs, Big Dogs, Large Dogs, and the Cute Dog can be tamed by
>> bones -- useful if you accidentally tick off the cute dog.
>
> Frances described her proceedings with cute dog some long time ago.
> She accidently attacked it in a room with flickering lights and later
> tamed it with bones after dispatching tension room full of
> skeletons.

Ah, it was mentioned before, wasn't sure. A lot of stuff like this is
mentioned by someone at sometime but then gets lost over time :p 


.....


>>>>> Giving Black Hurtlings fish meat can tame them.
>>
>> Makes perfect sense to me. If you postulate "Black Hurthling" =
>> "Gollum", then imagine Frodo and Gollum discussing "nice fisssssh",
>> it all becomes quite clear.
>
>
> One additional thought on this matter: does it matter whether or not
> the fish is cooked? As I recall, Gollum hated cooked fish, preferring
> it raw. Perhaps this is also true of black hurthlings in general?

Unfortunately, they do appear to accept fried fish the same as cooked,
what a shame ;) 

Their chat message is something like 'Hast thou seen the one ring?
*chuckle*'


.....


>>>> If the fool is angry at you (depends on how you make him angry
>>>> I think) he'll only give you either potions of sickness or of
>>>> poison instead of the normal random for booze.
>>>
>>> Interesting. I can imagine special cases where each of these
>>> would be more useful than booze.
>>
>> Special cases. Hmm. Sickness maybe. I learned to live with
>> poisonous hands and usually will not remove it if I posess thick
>> gauntlets.
>
>
> Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), you can't order specific
> corruptions to your liking. Poison hands may be your first
> corruption, but you also may spend the whole game trying to get it
> and never succeed. This technique, on the other hand, is reliable.

Reliable as long as you can figure out exactly how to piss him off so
that it works, anyway ;)  Needs some further testing.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:43:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork Twinge bork 7:56:04 AM bork 1/10/2005 bork bork:

> If the fool is angry at you (depends on how you make him angry I think)
> he'll only give you either potions of sickness or of poison instead of
> the normal random for booze.

Interesting. I can imagine special cases where each of these would be more
useful than booze.

Erik
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:49:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Erik Piper <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:
> bork bork bork Twinge bork 7:56:04 AM bork 1/10/2005 bork bork:

>> If the fool is angry at you (depends on how you make him angry I think)
>> he'll only give you either potions of sickness or of poison instead of
>> the normal random for booze.

> Interesting. I can imagine special cases where each of these would be more
> useful than booze.

Special cases. Hmm. Sickness maybe. I learned to live with poisonous
hands and usually will not remove it if I posess thick gauntlets.

Can any formidable enemy, for example Kherab, be made sick with
potion of sickness?

brojek.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:59:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork Przemyslaw Brojewski bork 5:49:25 PM bork 1/10/2005 bork bork:

I

s
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a
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> Erik Piper <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:
> > bork bork bork Twinge bork 7:56:04 AM bork 1/10/2005 bork bork:
>
> >> If the fool is angry at you (depends on how you make him angry I think)
> >> he'll only give you either potions of sickness or of poison instead of
> >> the normal random for booze.
>
> > Interesting. I can imagine special cases where each of these would be more
> > useful than booze.
>
> Special cases. Hmm. Sickness maybe. I learned to live with poisonous
> hands and usually will not remove it if I posess thick gauntlets.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), you can't order specific corruptions
to your liking. Poison hands may be your first corruption, but you also may
spend the whole game trying to get it and never succeed. This technique, on
the other hand, is reliable.

Erik
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 2:21:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Przemyslaw Brojewski <brojek@zly.kis.p.lodz.pl> wrote in news:cru0ek$9lf$2
@kujawiak.man.lodz.pl:


> That settles it than. My next early deaths will be archers.
>
> brojek.
>

Actually, Archers are one of the classes I'd designate as least likely for
an early death. Even someone reasonably incompetent at the game such as
myself can almost always survive a fair while with an archer.

Quick question -- other than range, what's the difference between a Short
Bow and a Long Bow? Or a Light versus Heavy Crossbow?

Brian
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 5:09:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On 2005-01-10, Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
> Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
>>
>> Since
>>
>> Twinge
>>
>> Complained
>>
>> That
>>
>> Nobody
>>
>> Comments
>>
>> His
>>
>> Wonderfull
>>
>> Posts
>>
>> (Masterpieces
>>
>> I Would
>>
>> Say)
>>
>> Here
>>
>> Goes
>>
>> My
>>
>> Nitpicking
>>
>> After
>>
>> A Spoiler
>>
>> Space.
<snippage>
> I found this when I was trying to figure out what, if anything,
> protection from undead and constructs actually did. Not much, it turns
> out; they reduce something somewhere to 3/5 of blessed or 4/5 if
> uncursed, but I haven't figured out _what_. It's not damage from such
> creatures or anything so obvious; it has something to do with chances
> for being hit by a corrupting attack or something, also based on PV...

I original thought these would protect from damage, but playtesting
ruled that out. Then I thought, perhaps they protect from stat drains
or aging (for undead) and slowing (for some constructs)?

Just a thought...

Also, on the subject of Justifier (mentioned elsewhere) I think there's
more to it than just doing extra damage for Paladins. I just received
it as a Priest, and I swear it wasn *not* doing its full stated damage.
I was failing to hurt or barely hurting critters with PV < 10, which
would make no sense given its supposed rating.

njm
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 12:38:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eva Myers wrote:
>> Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Spoily random factoid action.
>>>.
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>>>

>>
>> So how many morgias one has to eat to increase Willpower potential?
>> Let's say 8, tough my practice tells me that 12 work much better. 8 *
>> 25 = 200. 200 turns spent on waiting for a stat to drop below 25.
>> You can raise willpower to 53. Let's assume Starting willpower was 10
>> and raised to 20 while you have been harvesting morgias. That leaves
>> 33 stats to go. Spontaneous stat increases happen about every 7 game
>> hours. So 33 increases mean 33 game days. One day for increasing
>> potential, and then actual stat. for It is logical to scum ID 24-25
>> during this time for rings of djinni summoning. Potions of potential
>> stat are also not to be neglected.
>>
>> 33 * (200 + 100) = 9900 turns spent in a corrupting zone. At least
>> one corruption. Compare that to 33 * (80 + 40) in case of cursed
>> morgia. 3960 turns. See my point?
>>
>> Of course one could go and do other things than just wait for stat to
>> decrease. But I died from starvation every time I tried to pull
>> that. Got distracted by some out of depth monster and didn't pay
>> attention to my starvation status.

> I don't abuse this nearly as much as I should ;)  I completely missed
> your initial comment about starvation; yes, cursed are the best for that
> by far. The amount you have to eat depends on your current stat amount
> and chance (a little bit anyway).

> Morgia Root trains toughness up to 25, 5d100+200; trains Willpower up to
> 25, 50d10. The maximum amount of training that can be 'stored' from root
> (or moss) is 5000.

> You'll need to eat about 18 on average to max out your training (from
> root, other training can still raise it past that); 5000 training gives
> you a great chance to raise potential, even pretty high: at 52 willpower
> (maxed) you'll still have about a 5/6 chance to raise it. Also, whenever
> training is checked, 1000 training points are reduced if it raises (not
> maxed), 2000 points are reduced if it raises the max, and an additional
> 1000 points are always deducted. (So, you'll never 'lose' more than 3000
> points of training, so it'll potentially take fewer roots to get back up
> to the 5000 mark. 5000 training is a guaranteed increase when a stat is
> maxed up to 42 of a stat as long as your learning is at least 10.)

>> And by the way, I love being Strained! and having invisibility from
>> an item. They are such a saviours, corruption-wise.

> ...eh? how?

By reducing by a factor of about 10 time spent in a corrupting zones
starving and doing nothing. Raising stat to 50-iest by training takes
long time, and you can do something usefull in the meantime.




>> Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), you can't order specific
>> corruptions to your liking. Poison hands may be your first
>> corruption, but you also may spend the whole game trying to get it
>> and never succeed.

I use tracts of order to reject unwanted corruptions. I often wish
for them if I can't find one before day 90. One tract last fairly
long -- about 5 readings on average from my experience with wizards.

Bu I agree, rejecting all corruptions and hunting for poison hands
would most probably waste a tract and gain nothing :)  However, rejecting
stiff muscles, mana battery (up to a point), and unholy aura works
like a charm.

brojek.
!