Wands of wishing: fable or fact?

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but to me
they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've played so
far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon me their
chances for generation and other general statistics, at their leisure?
I'm curious.

Thank you.

-Dkarrde
18 answers Last reply
More about wands wishing fable fact
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    dkarrde@gmail.com wrote:

    > Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but
    > to me they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've
    > played so far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon
    > me their chances for generation and other general statistics, at
    > their leisure? I'm curious.

    I played ADOM regularly about 2 years, and in those hundreds of games I
    found only two wands of wishing: one was on the level of the Assassin
    Prince, the other was somewhere around dungeon level 25-35 in the
    Caverns of Chaos. One was cursed, and didn't yield a wish at all.

    Wands of wishing are rare indeed. And at the time you could find one,
    it's quite likely that you have the mana battery corruption which will
    drain all the charges from a wand of wishing (but at least you can
    wrench the final charge).

    So if you really find or pick pocket a wand of wishing, you are indeed
    very lucky, and you should be very happy and make the current game a
    win!
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    dkarrde@gmail.com wrote:
    > Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but to
    > me they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've played
    > so far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon me their
    > chances for generation and other general statistics, at their
    > leisure? I'm curious.
    >
    > Thank you.

    Almost as rare as most artifacts. I've yet to see one myself either...
    they have a creation probabilty of 50 (most artifacts are 25, leather
    boots, for example, are 2000) and a danger level of 15 (you won't ever
    see one early on like you might see a RoDS).

    Each item created on DL15 has a 0.00433% chance of being a wand of
    wishing, so you'd need to see over 23,000 items, on average, before you
    ever saw a WoWi. There are so few items with a higher danger level that
    the chance of generation barely goes down when you get deeper, so it's
    not really worth hanging out specifically at D:15 to try and find one.

    On top of it's rarity, each zap has only a 50% chance of giving you a wish.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Twinge, completely geschtonkenflapped, wrote:

    (spoiler space)

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    [on wands of wishing]
    > On top of it's rarity, each zap has only a 50% chance of giving you a
    > wish.

    huh? i've seen my share of WoWi (5 or 6 until now, with a total
    of about 25 charges), and they never wasted a zap.


    --
    there is a cheer. the gnomes have learned a new way to say hooray. [-shpongle]

    address is scrambled - remove the superfluous "x" marks to reply
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    matija wrote:
    > Twinge, completely geschtonkenflapped, wrote:
    >
    > (spoiler space)
    >
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    > [on wands of wishing]
    >
    >> On top of it's rarity, each zap has only a 50% chance of giving you
    >> a wish.
    >
    >
    > huh? i've seen my share of WoWi (5 or 6 until now, with a total of
    > about 25 charges), and they never wasted a zap.

    Ah, my mistake, I missed part of it when I saw that skimming the code.
    You have a 50% chance for a wish if the wand is cursed, otherwise it's
    100%. (No difference between blessed and uncursed though)

    And my mistake for forgetting to add the spoiler space too, sorry about
    that =)
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:11 -0800, dkarrde wrote:

    > Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but to me
    > they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've played so
    > far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon me their
    > chances for generation and other general statistics, at their leisure?
    > I'm curious.
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    > -Dkarrde


    Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven archer.
    I've been playing since gamma 8, just one win, with the same race class
    combo (the character ate all the bugs of bugville). After that win a
    couple of unlucky events made me loose heart, restarted only recently. In
    all this time I remember three or four wands of wishing. My recent adom
    revival was due mostly to several very lucky characters; I thought each of
    them was a win candidate; it turned out differently: Grey Elven wizard
    killed by the chaos Wyrm; a very strong elven elementalist killed by the
    master cat and most recently, a human fighter (I thought that making
    things simple I could be more lucky), aged to death in one blow on D50 by
    the last ghost lord, having cleared womps and chaos warriors.

    In the current game, my char is at exp level 15; the first
    altar available, apart from Dwarftown, was in the High Kings cave. I
    started camping there, saccing and pick-pocketting (obviously, had to
    switch from L to N in order to train pick-pockets). As it is just past day
    30, I decided to go just for the crowning and continue with business
    (lack of patience and relying too much on luck are my biggest problems).
    The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?

    .... But as I was looking through my inventory after having identified
    various pieces of loot and products of chaos-potion-dipping (which, by the
    way got me teleportitis), I noticed a beautiful uncursed wand of wishing
    with FIVE charges.

    Now, most distinguished group, here is where I would like to hear your
    advice and ideas on the following matters:

    1. I intend to bless it and wish for: 1) aols, 2) 7lb, 3)rings of ice, 4)
    red dragon scale armour, 5) a decent bow and 6) (final wrench) will be
    kept for later, because I would like to try the moloch method of gaining
    experience. What do you think?

    2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch method be safely
    applied?

    3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?

    4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?

    5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?

    6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles by
    breaking and repairing them. How exactly?

    Thanks a lot in advance for any comments.
    M.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    bork bork bork Marcin Oseka bork 5:59:59 PM bork 1/5/2005 bork bork:

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    [...]

    > 1. I intend to bless it and wish for: 1) aols, 2) 7lb, 3)rings of ice, 4)
    > red dragon scale armour, 5) a decent bow and 6) (final wrench) will be
    > kept for later, because I would like to try the moloch method of gaining
    > experience. What do you think?

    Don't feel wise enough to answer. Certainly all of the items you mention are
    wishing "classics" except for the decent bow; however, for an archer, even
    that basically makes sense. The problem is that you can't wish for ego
    suffixes, so I'm not sure how you could make sure your wish provided an
    extraordinary bow.

    > 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch method be safely
    > applied?

    Don't feel wise enough to answer. In my one victory, I think I was killing
    molochs without too much angst by level 40 or so, but there are many, many
    things that affect the equation (e.g. stats on the one hand, and the
    difference between meeting them unexpectedly vs. meeting them by choice on
    the other).

    > 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?

    Experience gains from killing monsters are affected by one's speed at the
    time of the kill. For most monsters, the XP for the kill doesn't justify the
    added bother. For a few, like greater molochs, it does.

    > 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?

    No, but they do help a lot.

    > 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?

    Dunno.

    > 6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles by
    > breaking and repairing them. How exactly?

    Read a cursed scroll of repair and choose a pile of uncursed missiles as the
    thing to repair. They will now become broken, and can be fixed. Fixing them
    with a blessed scroll of repair will both fix them and bless them. This is
    superior to the holy-water method for really large piles, since holy water is
    restricted to 19s of material at a time. (Any part of a pile exceeding 19s
    will retain its former status.) Due to the rarity of scrolls of repair, it is
    also only advisable for really large piles of stuff; the using up of two
    scrolls of repair is not a trivial thing (although exactly how non-trivial
    also depends on things like one's penchant for smithing and/or scumming for
    stone giants and/or scumming for crystals of learning :-)).

    Erik
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    roy axenov wrote:
    > Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven archer. I've been
    >> playing since gamma 8, just one win, with the same race class combo
    >> (the character ate all the bugs of bugville).
    >
    > Playing HE archers is almost like cheating :-) The guys are awesome.

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    >> The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?
    >
    >
    > Yeah. You could give it to the demented ratling. Or you could sac it.
    > Or, if you would like five or ten thousand gps, - you could sell it.
    > Otherwise, it's too much of a pain in the neck to use the thing.

    Hate. Thunderstroke. So. Much.

    >> [WoWi (6) found -- Big Plans!]
    >
    >
    >> 1) aols, 2) 7lb,
    >
    >
    > Now who would argue about those two?

    Me! Argue Argue Argue!

    >> 3)rings of ice,
    >
    >
    > Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather painful if you
    > have RoIs but not blankets. Even two blessed ones don't stop the
    > equipment destruction completely.

    This also depends on some other factors... does he have a good melee
    weapon (artifact most likely) with some skill in it? If so, rings of ice
    aren't nearly as important as they might be if he _needs_ to use missles
    to kill anything.

    >> 4) red dragon scale armour,
    >
    >
    > *bzzzzt* Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent things you could
    > wish for. GoGS. SoCRs. Damn, fletchery sets, if you're really missile
    > heavy. You could get three or four, and the number of charges
    > averages at about five. That's a lot of missiles with Fletchery 100
    > and that archer special power.

    Slightly off topic, but relevant -- how to fletch:
    Don't fletch at all until you're past level 18; you'll make 50% more
    ammo then. Always fletch logs, not wooden sticks (logs give you about 3
    times more ammo), if at all possible (animated forest). Also, the most
    important factor is the B/U/C status of the wood you're working with
    (the logs) -- the status of the fletchery set doesn't seem to matter at
    all. You can expect to average a whopping 85 arrows per blessed log you
    fletch with a level 18+ archer. Using a wish you'll average about 18
    charges worth of fletchery, so that's 1500 arrows! (About half as many
    quarrels; half your porudction again if you're using uncursed logs
    instead of blessed) If you can get the logs and bless them (another time
    where using the repair trick might be good, 2 scrolls of repair or 18+
    potions of holy water) then this isn't a terrible idea. If you get lucky
    you'll pull a nice beefy stack of slaying ammo too, (just 'slaying' -
    they have a slaying effect on _everything_. you can't create ammo of foo
    slaying with fletchery.) or maybe penetration.

    Fletchery Sets and arrows/quarrels aren't really so rare that I think
    it'd be worth the wish, personally (circle a room and let a
    kobold/raider/barbarian start giving you some if you need to), but if
    you do fletch make sure you do it right =)

    > Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really depends on
    > the point in the game though. Sure you'll be drowning in armor by the
    > end of the game... if you get there. Good armor will HELP you get
    > there.
    >
    > That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be a better
    > wish... one dungeon, however feared, truly doth not a whole game
    > make, and the more general benefits of eternium plate mail will help
    > more generally than RDSM.

    It's not a completely terrible wish, but it shouldn't be needed. You
    might also consider tower eternium shields too -- dual-weilded shields
    for an archer are a good idea since you can still fire your bow. Two
    Good Shields + Shield Skill = 50+ DV!

    > You could also save a wish for... something... you might really want
    > later. I dunno. Scrolls of danger? potions of uselessness? Something
    > like that.

    Yeah, I'd suggest saving at least 1 or 2 for emergencies.

    >> 5) a decent bow
    >
    >
    > *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish for 'of
    > hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth it. Oh, forget it,
    > forget it please! Better save that wish for later!

    Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows aren't _that_
    rare, and don't even help that much anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a
    brutal longbow of devesation ;)

    >> 6) (final wrench) will be kept for later, because I would like to
    >> try the moloch method of gaining experience. What do you think?
    >
    >
    > Now that's very wise. Tried it, loved it - and archers defnitely
    > *need* it - their lvl 50 power is simply too awesome to miss on
    > emperor moloch if you have a wish to spare. And they don't have a lot
    > of trouble with those things.
    >

    Do boomerangs hit them both going and returning? ;)

    >> 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch method be safely
    >> applied?
    >
    >
    > Tried it with a HE archer around Clvl 30. Worked well. (Of course,
    > you'd need 7LBs, teleportation+control and a LOT of ammo).
    >

    Man, every idea I've come up with that I think is so unique and original
    has actually been done before =) I thought I was a genius when I figured
    out you might be able to make infinate wishes with potions of exchange
    and rings a few months ago ;O

    When I was playing around wishing for the emperor moloch with my
    save-scummed archer, I was able to take them out well in melee with
    Executor (demon slayer), but if you melee you have to be very careful
    and can't safely slow yourself down for the experience boost. I'd
    suggest being at least level 25-30, and probably only that low if you
    are really buff.

    >> 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?
    >
    >
    > Your experience gains depend on your speed. The lower your speed, the
    > more xp you get. But I wouldn't recommend that unless you Sp already
    > went through the roof (that is, you've cleared the BUGCAV or the
    > quickling tree). You definitely don't want greater molochs in melee
    > range. A single crit can be instakill.

    Test how much you'll be slowed down beforehand. Greater Molochs usually
    have a speed around 80 IIRC, so you don't want to go very far below that
    (even with SLB and archer's ultra-fast-shot(TM))

    >> 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?
    >
    >
    > Nope. Actually, penetrators worked better for me. But even absolutely
    > ordinary blessed arrows (+0, 1d6) worked ok. (Archers get so much
    > bonuses on their missiles it's ridiculous.)

    Just remember to Beserk when firing (having tactics skill at 100 too
    preferably) as long as they aren't next to you.

    >> 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?
    >
    >
    > Yep. Just enter a wilderness square and wish for an emperor moloch.
    > Just watch out for those greater molochs picking up their fallen
    > comrades' hulking armours. Those are absolutely priority targets!
    > Luckily, it takes some time for them to equip the thing, so you can
    > usually kill them before that.
    >
    > If you don't manage to catch them with their pants (um, hulking
    > armours) down - teleport away, and leave the wilderness. It's a pity
    > to waste so much potential xp, but uber-molochs are THE killing
    > machines of the game. TB really should do something about the bug.


    You will summon 34 (possibly 35) greater molochs when you executre this
    wish. They will be fairly spread out, but not across the entire level.
    You probably want to do it from one side of the wilderness square so you
    can teleport to the other side to get away/get a safe shot. Go into
    coward before you teleport in case there's a GM next to or on your
    teleport spot.

    I'll also point out, though you probably already know, to be sure to
    wish for multiples of anything you do wish for. fletchery set*s*,
    *pairs* of seven league boots, etc.

    > Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves. (Three of my
    > favorite "underdog" wishes.)

    Skills can certainly be nice. The worthwhile ones to wish for being
    concentration, food preservation, mining, find weakness, dodge, courage,
    or necromancy... maybe gemology or backstabbing.

    You'll pull about 10-11 charges from wishing for magic writing sets,
    though anything good you write will cause some potential stat loss:
    Item creation: Base * 4
    Increase Melee Accuracy/Damage: Base * 5
    Protection/Defense: Base * 6
    Education: Base * 7
    Chaos Resist: Base * 10
    (I haven't really yet tried to work out the specifics, but those are the
    ones that will be most likely to cause any stat loss and thier relative
    difficulty)

    If I'm recalling correctly you only lose Mana, so if you have some mana
    boosters (pendant of mana, mana orb, etc.) then you can probably write 3
    wishes worth of education or chaos resistance for the cost of a single
    wish (and some mana you can regain later, possibly by exchanging stats)
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:59:59 +0100, Marcin Oseka wrote:


    Sorry! I forgot the spoiler space in my above post!
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Twinge wrote:
    > roy axenov wrote:
    >> Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven
    >>> archer. I've been playing since gamma 8, just one win,
    >>> with the same race class combo (the character ate all
    >>> the bugs of bugville).
    >>
    >> Playing HE archers is almost like cheating :-) The guys
    >> are awesome.
    >
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    >>> The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?
    >>
    >>
    >> Yeah. You could give it to the demented ratling. Or you
    >> could sac it. Or, if you would like five or ten
    >> thousand gps, - you could sell it. Otherwise, it's too
    >> much of a pain in the neck to use the thing.
    >
    > Hate. Thunderstroke. So. Much.

    It is absolutely useless since it doesn't return.
    Furthermore it doesn't have any slaying powers to justify
    it's exisistence. The bundle of 12 winged quarrels of
    slaying in Bugville are just as lethal and at least there
    are enough to finish the foe and reclaim them.

    You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
    close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?

    >>> [WoWi (6) found -- Big Plans!]
    >>
    >>
    >>> 1) aols, 2) 7lb,
    >>
    >>
    >> Now who would argue about those two?
    >
    > Me! Argue Argue Argue!

    1) AoLS (if not found)
    2) 7LB (if not found)
    3) GoGS (if not found)
    4) As Archer you have Concentration so Food Preservation
    (race dependant).
    Save the last for weirdness. SoD and boar sculls may be
    worth a wish later in the game to keep options open. Rings
    of Ice and somesuch can also be hard finds.

    >>> 3)rings of ice,
    >>
    >>
    >> Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather
    >> painful if you have RoIs but not blankets. Even two
    >> blessed ones don't stop the equipment destruction
    >> completely.
    >
    > This also depends on some other factors... does he have
    > a good melee weapon (artifact most likely) with some
    > skill in it? If so, rings of ice aren't nearly as
    > important as they might be if he _needs_ to use missles
    > to kill anything.

    The ToEF can be a virtual PITA without a ring of ice.
    Expect corruption en masse and have a wand for stunning
    the big guy. He can hit for a ton of damage in melee.

    >>> 4) red dragon scale armour,
    >>
    >>
    >> *bzzzzt* Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent
    >> things you could wish for. GoGS. SoCRs. Damn, fletchery
    >> sets, if you're really missile heavy. You could get
    >> three or four, and the number of charges averages at
    >> about five. That's a lot of missiles with Fletchery 100
    >> and that archer special power.
    >
    > Slightly off topic, but relevant -- how to fletch: Don't
    > fletch at all until you're past level 18; you'll make
    > 50% more ammo then. Always fletch logs, not wooden
    > sticks (logs give you about 3 times more ammo), if at
    > all possible (animated forest). Also, the most important
    > factor is the B/U/C status of the wood you're working
    > with (the logs) -- the status of the fletchery set
    > doesn't seem to matter at all. You can expect to average
    > a whopping 85 arrows per blessed log you fletch with a
    > level 18+ archer. Using a wish you'll average about 18
    > charges worth of fletchery, so that's 1500 arrows!
    > (About half as many quarrels; half your porudction again
    > if you're using uncursed logs instead of blessed) If you
    > can get the logs and bless them (another time where
    > using the repair trick might be good, 2 scrolls of
    > repair or 18+ potions of holy water) then this isn't a
    > terrible idea. If you get lucky you'll pull a nice beefy
    > stack of slaying ammo too, (just 'slaying' - they have a
    > slaying effect on _everything_. you can't create ammo of
    > foo slaying with fletchery.) or maybe penetration.
    >
    > Fletchery Sets and arrows/quarrels aren't really so rare
    > that I think it'd be worth the wish, personally (circle
    > a room and let a kobold/raider/barbarian start giving
    > you some if you need to), but if you do fletch make sure
    > you do it right =)

    However Fletchery sets seems to pop up with far higher
    frequency than writing sets. I would definately go for
    writing sets and give hoots about mana until I can restore
    it (Nuuraghs corpse + Mana Orb + White Unicorn). A wish
    there will net you app. 10-15 scrolls of your own choice.
    Education. Chaos res. You name it.

    >> Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really
    >> depends on the point in the game though. Sure you'll be
    >> drowning in armor by the end of the game... if you get
    >> there. Good armor will HELP you get there.
    >>
    >> That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be
    >> a better wish... one dungeon, however feared, truly
    >> doth not a whole game make, and the more general
    >> benefits of eternium plate mail will help more
    >> generally than RDSM.
    >
    > It's not a completely terrible wish, but it shouldn't be
    > needed. You might also consider tower eternium shields
    > too -- dual-weilded shields for an archer are a good
    > idea since you can still fire your bow. Two Good Shields
    > + Shield Skill = 50+ DV!
    >
    >> You could also save a wish for... something... you
    >> might really want later. I dunno. Scrolls of danger?
    >> potions of uselessness? Something like that.
    >
    > Yeah, I'd suggest saving at least 1 or 2 for
    > emergencies.

    Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are past
    level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium plate
    mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take the
    entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the Hydras
    and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go into swamps
    (takes a bit more time than hunting on the assasin-pyramid
    road). Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of
    weakness (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a
    wish on armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for
    the extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
    rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale is
    ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's there
    when you need it.

    >>> 5) a decent bow
    >>
    >>
    >> *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish
    >> for 'of hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth
    >> it. Oh, forget it, forget it please! Better save that
    >> wish for later!
    >
    > Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows
    > aren't _that_ rare, and don't even help that much
    > anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a brutal longbow of
    > devesation ;)

    No way you should wish for a bow. They are easily
    destroyed and easy to find.

    >>> 6) (final wrench) will be kept for later, because I
    >>> would like to try the moloch method of gaining
    >>> experience. What do you think?
    >>
    >>
    >> Now that's very wise. Tried it, loved it - and archers
    >> defnitely *need* it - their lvl 50 power is simply too
    >> awesome to miss on emperor moloch if you have a wish to
    >> spare. And they don't have a lot of trouble with those
    >> things.
    >>
    >
    > Do boomerangs hit them both going and returning? ;)

    If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
    wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers (plenty),
    7LB and good marks in the missile device of choice and
    safe means of moving about (spell: Controlled Teleport).
    As mentioned above regarding wilderness and fletching
    getting past certain levels will open up new options to
    you.

    >>> 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch
    >>> method be safely applied?
    >>
    >>
    >> Tried it with a HE archer around Clvl 30. Worked well.
    >> (Of course, you'd need 7LBs, teleportation+control and
    >> a LOT of ammo).
    >>
    >
    > Man, every idea I've come up with that I think is so
    > unique and original has actually been done before =) I
    > thought I was a genius when I figured out you might be
    > able to make infinate wishes with potions of exchange
    > and rings a few months ago ;O
    >
    > When I was playing around wishing for the emperor moloch
    > with my save-scummed archer, I was able to take them out
    > well in melee with Executor (demon slayer), but if you
    > melee you have to be very careful and can't safely slow
    > yourself down for the experience boost. I'd suggest
    > being at least level 25-30, and probably only that low
    > if you are really buff.

    It depends. If you can "spare" either Terinyo or HMV there
    is a neat little island for you to use. It blocks some
    options if Khelly is in Terinyo and you have not satisfied
    the old crone yet.

    >>> 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?
    >>
    >>
    >> Your experience gains depend on your speed. The lower
    >> your speed, the more xp you get. But I wouldn't
    >> recommend that unless you Sp already went through the
    >> roof (that is, you've cleared the BUGCAV or the
    >> quickling tree). You definitely don't want greater
    >> molochs in melee range. A single crit can be instakill.
    >
    > Test how much you'll be slowed down beforehand. Greater
    > Molochs usually have a speed around 80 IIRC, so you
    > don't want to go very far below that (even with SLB and
    > archer's ultra-fast-shot(TM))

    Two things.

    1) The amount of experience is dependent on you current
    XP. Not worth it for a fire beetle, but definately worth
    considering before planting the final arrow of dragon
    slaying into the hide of the water dragon or karmic wyrm.

    2) The amount of speed you get from corpses are dependant
    on your speed. IIRC you are guaranteed full increase with
    speed below 120. With Slow Monster, an armor of sloth and
    boots of the slow shuffle (also wish-worthy in this
    regard) you can be a 300 speed rocket.

    >>> 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?
    >>
    >>
    >> Nope. Actually, penetrators worked better for me. But
    >> even absolutely ordinary blessed arrows (+0, 1d6)
    >> worked ok. (Archers get so much bonuses on their
    >> missiles it's ridiculous.)
    >
    > Just remember to Beserk when firing (having tactics
    > skill at 100 too preferably) as long as they aren't next
    > to you.

    Arrows of slaying (can be fletched through a bit of luck -
    works better on higher levels), arrows of penetration (can
    likewise be fletched, also level dep.), arrows of demon
    slaying and arrows of humaniod slaying (yep GM's are
    humanoids) all cause pain. Everything else will bounce off
    or cause too little damage to counter regeneration.
    Besides you DON'T have time and space after a wish for
    Emperor Moloch.

    Remember to bless all the missiles for that 50% extra
    damage.

    >>> 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?
    >>
    >>
    >> Yep. Just enter a wilderness square and wish for an
    >> emperor moloch. Just watch out for those greater
    >> molochs picking up their fallen comrades' hulking
    >> armours. Those are absolutely priority targets!
    >> Luckily, it takes some time for them to equip the
    >> thing, so you can usually kill them before that.
    >>
    >> If you don't manage to catch them with their pants (um,
    >> hulking armours) down - teleport away, and leave the
    >> wilderness. It's a pity to waste so much potential xp,
    >> but uber-molochs are THE killing machines of the game.
    >> TB really should do something about the bug.
    >
    >
    > You will summon 34 (possibly 35) greater molochs when
    > you executre this wish. They will be fairly spread out,
    > but not across the entire level. You probably want to do
    > it from one side of the wilderness square so you can
    > teleport to the other side to get away/get a safe shot.
    > Go into coward before you teleport in case there's a GM
    > next to or on your teleport spot.
    >
    > I'll also point out, though you probably already know,
    > to be sure to wish for multiples of anything you do wish
    > for. fletchery set*s*, *pairs* of seven league boots,
    > etc.

    Re-enter a swmap hex until an island is generated in the
    corners :). Just thought of that. If it is at all
    possible. Like this

    "=
    ==

    >> Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves.
    >> (Three of my favorite "underdog" wishes.)
    >
    > Skills can certainly be nice. The worthwhile ones to
    > wish for being concentration, food preservation, mining,
    > find weakness, dodge, courage, or necromancy... maybe
    > gemology or backstabbing.

    All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
    Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without Food
    pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
    definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
    Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can be
    useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought to have
    backstabbing covered by now.

    > You'll pull about 10-11 charges from wishing for magic
    > writing sets, though anything good you write will cause
    > some potential stat loss: Item creation: Base * 4
    > Increase Melee Accuracy/Damage: Base * 5
    > Protection/Defense: Base * 6
    > Education: Base * 7
    > Chaos Resist: Base * 10
    > (I haven't really yet tried to work out the specifics,
    > but those are the ones that will be most likely to cause
    > any stat loss and thier relative difficulty)
    >
    > If I'm recalling correctly you only lose Mana, so if you
    > have some mana boosters (pendant of mana, mana orb,
    > etc.) then you can probably write 3 wishes worth of
    > education or chaos resistance for the cost of a single
    > wish (and some mana you can regain later, possibly by
    > exchanging stats)

    ... or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
    certainly wish for writing sets.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    bork bork bork roy axenov bork 7:04:05 PM bork 1/5/2005 bork bork:

    ..
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    > Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather painful if
    > you have RoIs but not blankets. Even two blessed ones don't
    > stop the equipment destruction completely.

    It's also rather painful if you have the blankets but not the RoIs... and
    there are guaranteed blankets in the game, and they are also not nearly as
    unusual as random drops as rings of ice are.

    And bows are made of wood. Sure you can carry eight or nine of them and swap
    one in when the previous one burns up, but why not just avoid the hassle?

    I'd side with Marcin here.

    > > 4) red dragon scale armour,
    >
    > bzzzzt [...]

    Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really depends on the point
    in the game though. Sure you'll be drowning in armor by the end of the
    game... if you get there. Good armor will HELP you get there.

    That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be a better wish... one
    dungeon, however feared, truly doth not a whole game make, and the more
    general benefits of eternium plate mail will help more generally than RDSM.

    > Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent things you
    > could wish for. GoGS. SoCRs.

    Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves. (Three of my favorite
    "underdog" wishes.)

    Erik
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Marcin Oseka <maose.unnecessarybit@esculap.pleezreemoovzis.pl> wrote:


    S

    p

    o

    i

    l

    e

    r


    s

    p

    a

    c

    e


    > 1. I intend to bless it and wish for: 1) aols, 2) 7lb, 3)rings of ice, 4)
    > red dragon scale armour, 5) a decent bow and 6) (final wrench) will be
    > kept for later, because I would like to try the moloch method of gaining
    > experience. What do you think?

    Wish for aols if Khelavaster still lives.
    Wish for 7lb's.
    Wish for rings of ice.

    Keep rest of charges for later use. If you need a decen't bow
    very desperately then go ahead, wish for long bows.

    brojek.
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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    Marcin Oseka <maose.unnecessarybit@esculap.pleezreemoovzis.pl> wrote:
    > On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:11 -0800, dkarrde wrote:


    > 6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles by
    > breaking and repairing them. How exactly?

    you may bless up to 40 missiles by plain dipping. Breaking-reparing
    method is usually wastefull in this case, unless you have 81+ missiles
    in a stack.
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
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    >
    > Marcin Oseka <maose.unnecessarybit@esculap.pleezreemoovzis.pl> wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:11 -0800, dkarrde wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >> 6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles
    >> by breaking and repairing them. How exactly?
    >
    >
    > you may bless up to 40 missiles by plain dipping. Breaking-reparing
    > method is usually wastefull in this case, unless you have 81+
    > missiles in a stack.

    Wow, I didn't even know that arrows and quarrels broke the laws of
    dipping, interesting. Definately don't bother breaking them then; I
    assumed they followed standard rules and you could only dip 9 =)
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:

    > Twinge wrote:
    >> roy axenov wrote:
    >>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>>
    >>>

    [several snips]


    and spoiler space


    =

    =


    =


    =


    =


    =

    >
    > You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
    > close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?

    U is way beyond my league. Let me win a couple more times the old normal
    way and I'll reconsider :-)


    >
    >
    > Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are past
    > level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium plate
    > mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take the
    > entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the Hydras
    > and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go into swamps
    > (takes a bit more time than hunting on the assasin-pyramid
    > road).

    Until recently excursions in the wilderness were never an important part
    of my gameplay. My current archer collected lots of arrows from
    barbarians. However, I cannot imagine deliberately dooming myself.

    > Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of
    > weakness (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a
    > wish on armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for
    > the extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
    > rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale is
    > ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's there
    > when you need it.
    >

    Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found - probably in Darkforge
    - Nature's companion. Fire will no longer hurt me; I am going to get the
    ROTHK now, and then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly short on
    potions of water and I may need to build a bridge across the piranha pool
    (no wand of cold).


    >>>
    >>> *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish
    >>> for 'of hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth
    >>> it. Oh, forget it, forget it please! Better save that
    >>> wish for later!
    >>
    >> Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows
    >> aren't _that_ rare, and don't even help that much
    >> anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a brutal longbow of
    >> devesation ;)
    >
    > No way you should wish for a bow. They are easily
    > destroyed and easy to find.
    >

    Point fully taken.

    > If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
    > wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers (plenty),
    > 7LB and good marks in the missile device of choice and
    > safe means of moving about (spell: Controlled Teleport).
    > As mentioned above regarding wilderness and fletching
    > getting past certain levels will open up new options to
    > you.
    >

    Not just yet. I have only a hudred something hitpoints and just a handfull
    of demon-slaying arrows. And my means of teleportation is teleportitis
    (controlled with amulet).

    > All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
    > Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without Food
    > pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
    > definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
    > Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can be
    > useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought to have
    > backstabbing covered by now.

    My playing skill and experience makes me feel comfortable with food
    pres. eg. to get strength from fire giant corpses. I have never tried
    necromancy.

    > .. or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
    > certainly wish for writing sets.


    Thanks soooo much! I hope I'll make good use of this advice.
    M
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Marcin Oseka wrote:
    > On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
    >> Twinge wrote:
    >>> roy axenov wrote:
    >>>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >
    > [several snips]
    >
    >
    > and spoiler space
    >
    >
    >
    > =
    >
    > =
    >
    >
    > =
    >
    >
    > =
    >
    >
    > =
    >
    >
    > =
    >
    >>
    >> You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
    >> close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?
    >
    > U is way beyond my league. Let me win a couple more
    > times the old normal way and I'll reconsider :-)
    >

    Fair enough. I didn't mean to sound so blunt.

    >> Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are
    >> past level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium
    >> plate mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take
    >> the entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the
    >> Hydras and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go
    >> into swamps (takes a bit more time than hunting on the
    >> assasin-pyramid road).
    >
    > Until recently excursions in the wilderness were never
    > an important part of my gameplay. My current archer
    > collected lots of arrows from barbarians. However, I
    > cannot imagine deliberately dooming myself.
    >

    Wear a <foo> of damnation. Usually an orcish knife or
    spear will turn up with that postfix. It increases the
    amount of wilderness encounters tremendously.

    >> Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of weakness
    >> (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a wish on
    >> armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for the
    >> extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
    >> rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale
    >> is ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's
    >> there when you need it.
    >>
    >
    > Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
    > probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will no
    > longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now, and
    > then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly short on
    > potions of water and I may need to build a bridge across
    > the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
    >

    Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of logs
    in your inventory.

    [SNIP: Bow wishing... not]

    >> If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
    >> wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers
    >> (plenty), 7LB and good marks in the missile device of
    >> choice and safe means of moving about (spell:
    >> Controlled Teleport). As mentioned above regarding
    >> wilderness and fletching getting past certain levels
    >> will open up new options to you.
    >>
    >
    > Not just yet. I have only a hudred something hitpoints
    > and just a handfull of demon-slaying arrows. And my
    > means of teleportation is teleportitis (controlled with
    > amulet).
    >

    Oki-dokey. You don't want to blow this particular event.

    >> All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
    >> Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without
    >> Food pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
    >> definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
    >> Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can
    >> be useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought
    >> to have backstabbing covered by now.
    >
    > My playing skill and experience makes me feel
    > comfortable with food pres. eg. to get strength from
    > fire giant corpses. I have never tried necromancy.
    >
    >> .. or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
    >> certainly wish for writing sets.
    >
    >
    > Thanks soooo much! I hope I'll make good use of this
    > advice.

    So do I. I wait until I really need to scribe and do it in
    one go so I can recover the lost mana immidiately
    afterwards.
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
    > Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
    >>
    >>>Twinge wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>roy axenov wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>
    >>[several snips]
    >>
    >>
    >>and spoiler space
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>=
    >>
    >>=
    >>
    >>
    >>=
    >>
    >>
    >>=
    >>
    >>
    >>=
    >>
    >>
    >>=
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
    >>probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will no
    >>longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now, and
    >>then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly short on
    >>potions of water and I may need to build a bridge across
    >>the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
    >>
    >
    >
    > Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of logs
    > in your inventory.

    Save any hatchets you find and give them to the carpenter; this will
    raise your bridge building skill (more the higher your learning is).
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Twinge wrote:
    > maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
    >> Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
    >>>> Twinge wrote:
    >>>>> roy axenov wrote:
    >>>>>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>
    >>> [several snips]
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> and spoiler space
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> =
    >>>
    >>> =
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> =
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> =
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> =
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> =
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
    >>> probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will
    >>> no longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now,
    >>> and then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly
    >>> short on potions of water and I may need to build a
    >>> bridge across the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of
    >> logs in your inventory.
    >
    > Save any hatchets you find and give them to the
    > carpenter; this will raise your bridge building skill
    > (more the higher your learning is).

    Stuff like that is too valuable knowledge to have hidden
    away in the "(Spoily) YAGBU: Complete list of HP & PP
    Regenration information WAS: YAGBU: Healing, Regenration
    Rates" thread. Also I think we need those alignment swifts
    quantified. How many of them are level dependant and so
    forth? For an ULE candidate at level 50 every white stone
    counts.

    Perhaps an auxillary site a'la ToGu/Vladi with the info
    until AW can update the GB.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
    > Twinge wrote:
    >
    >>maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
    >>
    >>>Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Twinge wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>roy axenov wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Marcin Oseka wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>[several snips]
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>and spoiler space
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>=
    >>>>
    >>>>=
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>=
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>=
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>=
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>=
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
    >>>>probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will
    >>>>no longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now,
    >>>>and then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly
    >>>>short on potions of water and I may need to build a
    >>>>bridge across the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of
    >>>logs in your inventory.
    >>
    >>Save any hatchets you find and give them to the
    >>carpenter; this will raise your bridge building skill
    >>(more the higher your learning is).
    >
    >
    > Stuff like that is too valuable knowledge to have hidden
    > away in the "(Spoily) YAGBU: Complete list of HP & PP
    > Regenration information WAS: YAGBU: Healing, Regenration
    > Rates" thread. Also I think we need those alignment swifts
    > quantified. How many of them are level dependant and so
    > forth? For an ULE candidate at level 50 every white stone
    > counts.

    All of them are. I posted the most important pieces of the formula
    elsewhere; essentially, you'll recieve 0.02 of the stated amount at
    level 50, so +5000 base would only actually give you 100 stones. I
    forget if there is a minimum increase of 1 or not.

    > Perhaps an auxillary site a'la ToGu/Vladi with the info
    > until AW can update the GB.

    Possibly, either an addendum to the guidebook or a 'Andy hasn't time to
    update the guidebook with this information yet' page, etc. as I've
    mentioned elsewhere as well. We'll see how it goes.
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