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Wands of wishing: fable or fact?

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Last response: in PC Gaming
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 6:51:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but to me
they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've played so
far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon me their
chances for generation and other general statistics, at their leisure?
I'm curious.

Thank you.

-Dkarrde

More about : wands wishing fable fact

Anonymous
January 4, 2005 7:44:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

dkarrde@gmail.com wrote:

> Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but
> to me they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've
> played so far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon
> me their chances for generation and other general statistics, at
> their leisure? I'm curious.

I played ADOM regularly about 2 years, and in those hundreds of games I
found only two wands of wishing: one was on the level of the Assassin
Prince, the other was somewhere around dungeon level 25-35 in the
Caverns of Chaos. One was cursed, and didn't yield a wish at all.

Wands of wishing are rare indeed. And at the time you could find one,
it's quite likely that you have the mana battery corruption which will
drain all the charges from a wand of wishing (but at least you can
wrench the final charge).

So if you really find or pick pocket a wand of wishing, you are indeed
very lucky, and you should be very happy and make the current game a
win!
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 8:18:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

dkarrde@gmail.com wrote:
> Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but to
> me they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've played
> so far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon me their
> chances for generation and other general statistics, at their
> leisure? I'm curious.
>
> Thank you.

Almost as rare as most artifacts. I've yet to see one myself either...
they have a creation probabilty of 50 (most artifacts are 25, leather
boots, for example, are 2000) and a danger level of 15 (you won't ever
see one early on like you might see a RoDS).

Each item created on DL15 has a 0.00433% chance of being a wand of
wishing, so you'd need to see over 23,000 items, on average, before you
ever saw a WoWi. There are so few items with a higher danger level that
the chance of generation barely goes down when you get deeper, so it's
not really worth hanging out specifically at D:15 to try and find one.

On top of it's rarity, each zap has only a 50% chance of giving you a wish.
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
January 5, 2005 4:41:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge, completely geschtonkenflapped, wrote:

(spoiler space)

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[on wands of wishing]
> On top of it's rarity, each zap has only a 50% chance of giving you a
> wish.

huh? i've seen my share of WoWi (5 or 6 until now, with a total
of about 25 charges), and they never wasted a zap.


--
there is a cheer. the gnomes have learned a new way to say hooray. [-shpongle]

address is scrambled - remove the superfluous "x" marks to reply
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 4:41:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

matija wrote:
> Twinge, completely geschtonkenflapped, wrote:
>
> (spoiler space)
>
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>
> [on wands of wishing]
>
>> On top of it's rarity, each zap has only a 50% chance of giving you
>> a wish.
>
>
> huh? i've seen my share of WoWi (5 or 6 until now, with a total of
> about 25 charges), and they never wasted a zap.

Ah, my mistake, I missed part of it when I saw that skimming the code.
You have a 50% chance for a wish if the wand is cursed, otherwise it's
100%. (No difference between blessed and uncursed though)

And my mistake for forgetting to add the spoiler space too, sorry about
that =)
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 8:59:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:11 -0800, dkarrde wrote:

> Of course they exist. I'm not seriously disputing that fact, but to me
> they're fiction. I haven't seen one in the half-year I've played so
> far... can one of the code-heads we have here bestow upon me their
> chances for generation and other general statistics, at their leisure?
> I'm curious.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Dkarrde


Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven archer.
I've been playing since gamma 8, just one win, with the same race class
combo (the character ate all the bugs of bugville). After that win a
couple of unlucky events made me loose heart, restarted only recently. In
all this time I remember three or four wands of wishing. My recent adom
revival was due mostly to several very lucky characters; I thought each of
them was a win candidate; it turned out differently: Grey Elven wizard
killed by the chaos Wyrm; a very strong elven elementalist killed by the
master cat and most recently, a human fighter (I thought that making
things simple I could be more lucky), aged to death in one blow on D50 by
the last ghost lord, having cleared womps and chaos warriors.

In the current game, my char is at exp level 15; the first
altar available, apart from Dwarftown, was in the High Kings cave. I
started camping there, saccing and pick-pocketting (obviously, had to
switch from L to N in order to train pick-pockets). As it is just past day
30, I decided to go just for the crowning and continue with business
(lack of patience and relying too much on luck are my biggest problems).
The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?

.... But as I was looking through my inventory after having identified
various pieces of loot and products of chaos-potion-dipping (which, by the
way got me teleportitis), I noticed a beautiful uncursed wand of wishing
with FIVE charges.

Now, most distinguished group, here is where I would like to hear your
advice and ideas on the following matters:

1. I intend to bless it and wish for: 1) aols, 2) 7lb, 3)rings of ice, 4)
red dragon scale armour, 5) a decent bow and 6) (final wrench) will be
kept for later, because I would like to try the moloch method of gaining
experience. What do you think?

2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch method be safely
applied?

3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?

4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?

5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?

6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles by
breaking and repairing them. How exactly?

Thanks a lot in advance for any comments.
M.
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 9:00:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork Marcin Oseka bork 5:59:59 PM bork 1/5/2005 bork bork:

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[...]

> 1. I intend to bless it and wish for: 1) aols, 2) 7lb, 3)rings of ice, 4)
> red dragon scale armour, 5) a decent bow and 6) (final wrench) will be
> kept for later, because I would like to try the moloch method of gaining
> experience. What do you think?

Don't feel wise enough to answer. Certainly all of the items you mention are
wishing "classics" except for the decent bow; however, for an archer, even
that basically makes sense. The problem is that you can't wish for ego
suffixes, so I'm not sure how you could make sure your wish provided an
extraordinary bow.

> 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch method be safely
> applied?

Don't feel wise enough to answer. In my one victory, I think I was killing
molochs without too much angst by level 40 or so, but there are many, many
things that affect the equation (e.g. stats on the one hand, and the
difference between meeting them unexpectedly vs. meeting them by choice on
the other).

> 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?

Experience gains from killing monsters are affected by one's speed at the
time of the kill. For most monsters, the XP for the kill doesn't justify the
added bother. For a few, like greater molochs, it does.

> 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?

No, but they do help a lot.

> 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?

Dunno.

> 6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles by
> breaking and repairing them. How exactly?

Read a cursed scroll of repair and choose a pile of uncursed missiles as the
thing to repair. They will now become broken, and can be fixed. Fixing them
with a blessed scroll of repair will both fix them and bless them. This is
superior to the holy-water method for really large piles, since holy water is
restricted to 19s of material at a time. (Any part of a pile exceeding 19s
will retain its former status.) Due to the rarity of scrolls of repair, it is
also only advisable for really large piles of stuff; the using up of two
scrolls of repair is not a trivial thing (although exactly how non-trivial
also depends on things like one's penchant for smithing and/or scumming for
stone giants and/or scumming for crystals of learning :-)).

Erik
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 9:00:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

roy axenov wrote:
> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>
>
>> Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven archer. I've been
>> playing since gamma 8, just one win, with the same race class combo
>> (the character ate all the bugs of bugville).
>
> Playing HE archers is almost like cheating :-) The guys are awesome.

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>> The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?
>
>
> Yeah. You could give it to the demented ratling. Or you could sac it.
> Or, if you would like five or ten thousand gps, - you could sell it.
> Otherwise, it's too much of a pain in the neck to use the thing.

Hate. Thunderstroke. So. Much.

>> [WoWi (6) found -- Big Plans!]
>
>
>> 1) aols, 2) 7lb,
>
>
> Now who would argue about those two?

Me! Argue Argue Argue!

>> 3)rings of ice,
>
>
> Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather painful if you
> have RoIs but not blankets. Even two blessed ones don't stop the
> equipment destruction completely.

This also depends on some other factors... does he have a good melee
weapon (artifact most likely) with some skill in it? If so, rings of ice
aren't nearly as important as they might be if he _needs_ to use missles
to kill anything.

>> 4) red dragon scale armour,
>
>
> *bzzzzt* Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent things you could
> wish for. GoGS. SoCRs. Damn, fletchery sets, if you're really missile
> heavy. You could get three or four, and the number of charges
> averages at about five. That's a lot of missiles with Fletchery 100
> and that archer special power.

Slightly off topic, but relevant -- how to fletch:
Don't fletch at all until you're past level 18; you'll make 50% more
ammo then. Always fletch logs, not wooden sticks (logs give you about 3
times more ammo), if at all possible (animated forest). Also, the most
important factor is the B/U/C status of the wood you're working with
(the logs) -- the status of the fletchery set doesn't seem to matter at
all. You can expect to average a whopping 85 arrows per blessed log you
fletch with a level 18+ archer. Using a wish you'll average about 18
charges worth of fletchery, so that's 1500 arrows! (About half as many
quarrels; half your porudction again if you're using uncursed logs
instead of blessed) If you can get the logs and bless them (another time
where using the repair trick might be good, 2 scrolls of repair or 18+
potions of holy water) then this isn't a terrible idea. If you get lucky
you'll pull a nice beefy stack of slaying ammo too, (just 'slaying' -
they have a slaying effect on _everything_. you can't create ammo of foo
slaying with fletchery.) or maybe penetration.

Fletchery Sets and arrows/quarrels aren't really so rare that I think
it'd be worth the wish, personally (circle a room and let a
kobold/raider/barbarian start giving you some if you need to), but if
you do fletch make sure you do it right =)

> Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really depends on
> the point in the game though. Sure you'll be drowning in armor by the
> end of the game... if you get there. Good armor will HELP you get
> there.
>
> That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be a better
> wish... one dungeon, however feared, truly doth not a whole game
> make, and the more general benefits of eternium plate mail will help
> more generally than RDSM.

It's not a completely terrible wish, but it shouldn't be needed. You
might also consider tower eternium shields too -- dual-weilded shields
for an archer are a good idea since you can still fire your bow. Two
Good Shields + Shield Skill = 50+ DV!

> You could also save a wish for... something... you might really want
> later. I dunno. Scrolls of danger? potions of uselessness? Something
> like that.

Yeah, I'd suggest saving at least 1 or 2 for emergencies.

>> 5) a decent bow
>
>
> *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish for 'of
> hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth it. Oh, forget it,
> forget it please! Better save that wish for later!

Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows aren't _that_
rare, and don't even help that much anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a
brutal longbow of devesation ;) 

>> 6) (final wrench) will be kept for later, because I would like to
>> try the moloch method of gaining experience. What do you think?
>
>
> Now that's very wise. Tried it, loved it - and archers defnitely
> *need* it - their lvl 50 power is simply too awesome to miss on
> emperor moloch if you have a wish to spare. And they don't have a lot
> of trouble with those things.
>

Do boomerangs hit them both going and returning? ;) 

>> 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch method be safely
>> applied?
>
>
> Tried it with a HE archer around Clvl 30. Worked well. (Of course,
> you'd need 7LBs, teleportation+control and a LOT of ammo).
>

Man, every idea I've come up with that I think is so unique and original
has actually been done before =) I thought I was a genius when I figured
out you might be able to make infinate wishes with potions of exchange
and rings a few months ago ;O

When I was playing around wishing for the emperor moloch with my
save-scummed archer, I was able to take them out well in melee with
Executor (demon slayer), but if you melee you have to be very careful
and can't safely slow yourself down for the experience boost. I'd
suggest being at least level 25-30, and probably only that low if you
are really buff.

>> 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?
>
>
> Your experience gains depend on your speed. The lower your speed, the
> more xp you get. But I wouldn't recommend that unless you Sp already
> went through the roof (that is, you've cleared the BUGCAV or the
> quickling tree). You definitely don't want greater molochs in melee
> range. A single crit can be instakill.

Test how much you'll be slowed down beforehand. Greater Molochs usually
have a speed around 80 IIRC, so you don't want to go very far below that
(even with SLB and archer's ultra-fast-shot(TM))

>> 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?
>
>
> Nope. Actually, penetrators worked better for me. But even absolutely
> ordinary blessed arrows (+0, 1d6) worked ok. (Archers get so much
> bonuses on their missiles it's ridiculous.)

Just remember to Beserk when firing (having tactics skill at 100 too
preferably) as long as they aren't next to you.

>> 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?
>
>
> Yep. Just enter a wilderness square and wish for an emperor moloch.
> Just watch out for those greater molochs picking up their fallen
> comrades' hulking armours. Those are absolutely priority targets!
> Luckily, it takes some time for them to equip the thing, so you can
> usually kill them before that.
>
> If you don't manage to catch them with their pants (um, hulking
> armours) down - teleport away, and leave the wilderness. It's a pity
> to waste so much potential xp, but uber-molochs are THE killing
> machines of the game. TB really should do something about the bug.


You will summon 34 (possibly 35) greater molochs when you executre this
wish. They will be fairly spread out, but not across the entire level.
You probably want to do it from one side of the wilderness square so you
can teleport to the other side to get away/get a safe shot. Go into
coward before you teleport in case there's a GM next to or on your
teleport spot.

I'll also point out, though you probably already know, to be sure to
wish for multiples of anything you do wish for. fletchery set*s*,
*pairs* of seven league boots, etc.

> Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves. (Three of my
> favorite "underdog" wishes.)

Skills can certainly be nice. The worthwhile ones to wish for being
concentration, food preservation, mining, find weakness, dodge, courage,
or necromancy... maybe gemology or backstabbing.

You'll pull about 10-11 charges from wishing for magic writing sets,
though anything good you write will cause some potential stat loss:
Item creation: Base * 4
Increase Melee Accuracy/Damage: Base * 5
Protection/Defense: Base * 6
Education: Base * 7
Chaos Resist: Base * 10
(I haven't really yet tried to work out the specifics, but those are the
ones that will be most likely to cause any stat loss and thier relative
difficulty)

If I'm recalling correctly you only lose Mana, so if you have some mana
boosters (pendant of mana, mana orb, etc.) then you can probably write 3
wishes worth of education or chaos resistance for the cost of a single
wish (and some mana you can regain later, possibly by exchanging stats)
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 9:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:59:59 +0100, Marcin Oseka wrote:


Sorry! I forgot the spoiler space in my above post!
January 5, 2005 10:00:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Just found one yesterday, playing my high elven
>>> archer. I've been playing since gamma 8, just one win,
>>> with the same race class combo (the character ate all
>>> the bugs of bugville).
>>
>> Playing HE archers is almost like cheating :-) The guys
>> are awesome.
>
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>>> The gods gave me Thunderstroke - is it any useful?
>>
>>
>> Yeah. You could give it to the demented ratling. Or you
>> could sac it. Or, if you would like five or ten
>> thousand gps, - you could sell it. Otherwise, it's too
>> much of a pain in the neck to use the thing.
>
> Hate. Thunderstroke. So. Much.

It is absolutely useless since it doesn't return.
Furthermore it doesn't have any slaying powers to justify
it's exisistence. The bundle of 12 winged quarrels of
slaying in Bugville are just as lethal and at least there
are enough to finish the foe and reclaim them.

You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?

>>> [WoWi (6) found -- Big Plans!]
>>
>>
>>> 1) aols, 2) 7lb,
>>
>>
>> Now who would argue about those two?
>
> Me! Argue Argue Argue!

1) AoLS (if not found)
2) 7LB (if not found)
3) GoGS (if not found)
4) As Archer you have Concentration so Food Preservation
(race dependant).
Save the last for weirdness. SoD and boar sculls may be
worth a wish later in the game to keep options open. Rings
of Ice and somesuch can also be hard finds.

>>> 3)rings of ice,
>>
>>
>> Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather
>> painful if you have RoIs but not blankets. Even two
>> blessed ones don't stop the equipment destruction
>> completely.
>
> This also depends on some other factors... does he have
> a good melee weapon (artifact most likely) with some
> skill in it? If so, rings of ice aren't nearly as
> important as they might be if he _needs_ to use missles
> to kill anything.

The ToEF can be a virtual PITA without a ring of ice.
Expect corruption en masse and have a wand for stunning
the big guy. He can hit for a ton of damage in melee.

>>> 4) red dragon scale armour,
>>
>>
>> *bzzzzt* Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent
>> things you could wish for. GoGS. SoCRs. Damn, fletchery
>> sets, if you're really missile heavy. You could get
>> three or four, and the number of charges averages at
>> about five. That's a lot of missiles with Fletchery 100
>> and that archer special power.
>
> Slightly off topic, but relevant -- how to fletch: Don't
> fletch at all until you're past level 18; you'll make
> 50% more ammo then. Always fletch logs, not wooden
> sticks (logs give you about 3 times more ammo), if at
> all possible (animated forest). Also, the most important
> factor is the B/U/C status of the wood you're working
> with (the logs) -- the status of the fletchery set
> doesn't seem to matter at all. You can expect to average
> a whopping 85 arrows per blessed log you fletch with a
> level 18+ archer. Using a wish you'll average about 18
> charges worth of fletchery, so that's 1500 arrows!
> (About half as many quarrels; half your porudction again
> if you're using uncursed logs instead of blessed) If you
> can get the logs and bless them (another time where
> using the repair trick might be good, 2 scrolls of
> repair or 18+ potions of holy water) then this isn't a
> terrible idea. If you get lucky you'll pull a nice beefy
> stack of slaying ammo too, (just 'slaying' - they have a
> slaying effect on _everything_. you can't create ammo of
> foo slaying with fletchery.) or maybe penetration.
>
> Fletchery Sets and arrows/quarrels aren't really so rare
> that I think it'd be worth the wish, personally (circle
> a room and let a kobold/raider/barbarian start giving
> you some if you need to), but if you do fletch make sure
> you do it right =)

However Fletchery sets seems to pop up with far higher
frequency than writing sets. I would definately go for
writing sets and give hoots about mana until I can restore
it (Nuuraghs corpse + Mana Orb + White Unicorn). A wish
there will net you app. 10-15 scrolls of your own choice.
Education. Chaos res. You name it.

>> Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really
>> depends on the point in the game though. Sure you'll be
>> drowning in armor by the end of the game... if you get
>> there. Good armor will HELP you get there.
>>
>> That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be
>> a better wish... one dungeon, however feared, truly
>> doth not a whole game make, and the more general
>> benefits of eternium plate mail will help more
>> generally than RDSM.
>
> It's not a completely terrible wish, but it shouldn't be
> needed. You might also consider tower eternium shields
> too -- dual-weilded shields for an archer are a good
> idea since you can still fire your bow. Two Good Shields
> + Shield Skill = 50+ DV!
>
>> You could also save a wish for... something... you
>> might really want later. I dunno. Scrolls of danger?
>> potions of uselessness? Something like that.
>
> Yeah, I'd suggest saving at least 1 or 2 for
> emergencies.

Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are past
level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium plate
mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take the
entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the Hydras
and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go into swamps
(takes a bit more time than hunting on the assasin-pyramid
road). Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of
weakness (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a
wish on armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for
the extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale is
ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's there
when you need it.

>>> 5) a decent bow
>>
>>
>> *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish
>> for 'of hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth
>> it. Oh, forget it, forget it please! Better save that
>> wish for later!
>
> Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows
> aren't _that_ rare, and don't even help that much
> anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a brutal longbow of
> devesation ;) 

No way you should wish for a bow. They are easily
destroyed and easy to find.

>>> 6) (final wrench) will be kept for later, because I
>>> would like to try the moloch method of gaining
>>> experience. What do you think?
>>
>>
>> Now that's very wise. Tried it, loved it - and archers
>> defnitely *need* it - their lvl 50 power is simply too
>> awesome to miss on emperor moloch if you have a wish to
>> spare. And they don't have a lot of trouble with those
>> things.
>>
>
> Do boomerangs hit them both going and returning? ;) 

If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers (plenty),
7LB and good marks in the missile device of choice and
safe means of moving about (spell: Controlled Teleport).
As mentioned above regarding wilderness and fletching
getting past certain levels will open up new options to
you.

>>> 2. How early in terms of experience can the moloch
>>> method be safely applied?
>>
>>
>> Tried it with a HE archer around Clvl 30. Worked well.
>> (Of course, you'd need 7LBs, teleportation+control and
>> a LOT of ammo).
>>
>
> Man, every idea I've come up with that I think is so
> unique and original has actually been done before =) I
> thought I was a genius when I figured out you might be
> able to make infinate wishes with potions of exchange
> and rings a few months ago ;O
>
> When I was playing around wishing for the emperor moloch
> with my save-scummed archer, I was able to take them out
> well in melee with Executor (demon slayer), but if you
> melee you have to be very careful and can't safely slow
> yourself down for the experience boost. I'd suggest
> being at least level 25-30, and probably only that low
> if you are really buff.

It depends. If you can "spare" either Terinyo or HMV there
is a neat little island for you to use. It blocks some
options if Khelly is in Terinyo and you have not satisfied
the old crone yet.

>>> 3. Why is it better to cast slow-monster on oneself?
>>
>>
>> Your experience gains depend on your speed. The lower
>> your speed, the more xp you get. But I wouldn't
>> recommend that unless you Sp already went through the
>> roof (that is, you've cleared the BUGCAV or the
>> quickling tree). You definitely don't want greater
>> molochs in melee range. A single crit can be instakill.
>
> Test how much you'll be slowed down beforehand. Greater
> Molochs usually have a speed around 80 IIRC, so you
> don't want to go very far below that (even with SLB and
> archer's ultra-fast-shot(TM))

Two things.

1) The amount of experience is dependent on you current
XP. Not worth it for a fire beetle, but definately worth
considering before planting the final arrow of dragon
slaying into the hide of the water dragon or karmic wyrm.

2) The amount of speed you get from corpses are dependant
on your speed. IIRC you are guaranteed full increase with
speed below 120. With Slow Monster, an armor of sloth and
boots of the slow shuffle (also wish-worthy in this
regard) you can be a 300 speed rocket.

>>> 4. Are arrows of demon slaying absolutely essential?
>>
>>
>> Nope. Actually, penetrators worked better for me. But
>> even absolutely ordinary blessed arrows (+0, 1d6)
>> worked ok. (Archers get so much bonuses on their
>> missiles it's ridiculous.)
>
> Just remember to Beserk when firing (having tactics
> skill at 100 too preferably) as long as they aren't next
> to you.

Arrows of slaying (can be fletched through a bit of luck -
works better on higher levels), arrows of penetration (can
likewise be fletched, also level dep.), arrows of demon
slaying and arrows of humaniod slaying (yep GM's are
humanoids) all cause pain. Everything else will bounce off
or cause too little damage to counter regeneration.
Besides you DON'T have time and space after a wish for
Emperor Moloch.

Remember to bless all the missiles for that 50% extra
damage.

>>> 5. Can I do it anywhere in the wilderness?
>>
>>
>> Yep. Just enter a wilderness square and wish for an
>> emperor moloch. Just watch out for those greater
>> molochs picking up their fallen comrades' hulking
>> armours. Those are absolutely priority targets!
>> Luckily, it takes some time for them to equip the
>> thing, so you can usually kill them before that.
>>
>> If you don't manage to catch them with their pants (um,
>> hulking armours) down - teleport away, and leave the
>> wilderness. It's a pity to waste so much potential xp,
>> but uber-molochs are THE killing machines of the game.
>> TB really should do something about the bug.
>
>
> You will summon 34 (possibly 35) greater molochs when
> you executre this wish. They will be fairly spread out,
> but not across the entire level. You probably want to do
> it from one side of the wilderness square so you can
> teleport to the other side to get away/get a safe shot.
> Go into coward before you teleport in case there's a GM
> next to or on your teleport spot.
>
> I'll also point out, though you probably already know,
> to be sure to wish for multiples of anything you do wish
> for. fletchery set*s*, *pairs* of seven league boots,
> etc.

Re-enter a swmap hex until an island is generated in the
corners :) . Just thought of that. If it is at all
possible. Like this

"=
==

>> Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves.
>> (Three of my favorite "underdog" wishes.)
>
> Skills can certainly be nice. The worthwhile ones to
> wish for being concentration, food preservation, mining,
> find weakness, dodge, courage, or necromancy... maybe
> gemology or backstabbing.

All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without Food
pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can be
useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought to have
backstabbing covered by now.

> You'll pull about 10-11 charges from wishing for magic
> writing sets, though anything good you write will cause
> some potential stat loss: Item creation: Base * 4
> Increase Melee Accuracy/Damage: Base * 5
> Protection/Defense: Base * 6
> Education: Base * 7
> Chaos Resist: Base * 10
> (I haven't really yet tried to work out the specifics,
> but those are the ones that will be most likely to cause
> any stat loss and thier relative difficulty)
>
> If I'm recalling correctly you only lose Mana, so if you
> have some mana boosters (pendant of mana, mana orb,
> etc.) then you can probably write 3 wishes worth of
> education or chaos resistance for the cost of a single
> wish (and some mana you can regain later, possibly by
> exchanging stats)

... or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
certainly wish for writing sets.
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 10:11:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork roy axenov bork 7:04:05 PM bork 1/5/2005 bork bork:

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> Do you have any fireproof blankets? ToEF is rather painful if
> you have RoIs but not blankets. Even two blessed ones don't
> stop the equipment destruction completely.

It's also rather painful if you have the blankets but not the RoIs... and
there are guaranteed blankets in the game, and they are also not nearly as
unusual as random drops as rings of ice are.

And bows are made of wood. Sure you can carry eight or nine of them and swap
one in when the previous one burns up, but why not just avoid the hassle?

I'd side with Marcin here.

> > 4) red dragon scale armour,
>
> bzzzzt [...]

Aww c'mon. Good armor is not THAT bad a wish. It really depends on the point
in the game though. Sure you'll be drowning in armor by the end of the
game... if you get there. Good armor will HELP you get there.

That said, plain old eternium plate mail would still be a better wish... one
dungeon, however feared, truly doth not a whole game make, and the more
general benefits of eternium plate mail will help more generally than RDSM.

> Why, oh why?! There are so many excellent things you
> could wish for. GoGS. SoCRs.

Writing sets. Scrolls of education. Skills themselves. (Three of my favorite
"underdog" wishes.)

Erik
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 10:11:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Marcin Oseka <maose.unnecessarybit@esculap.pleezreemoovzis.pl> wrote:


S

p

o

i

l

e

r


s

p

a

c

e














> 1. I intend to bless it and wish for: 1) aols, 2) 7lb, 3)rings of ice, 4)
> red dragon scale armour, 5) a decent bow and 6) (final wrench) will be
> kept for later, because I would like to try the moloch method of gaining
> experience. What do you think?

Wish for aols if Khelavaster still lives.
Wish for 7lb's.
Wish for rings of ice.

Keep rest of charges for later use. If you need a decen't bow
very desperately then go ahead, wish for long bows.

brojek.
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 10:15:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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Marcin Oseka <maose.unnecessarybit@esculap.pleezreemoovzis.pl> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:11 -0800, dkarrde wrote:



> 6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles by
> breaking and repairing them. How exactly?

you may bless up to 40 missiles by plain dipping. Breaking-reparing
method is usually wastefull in this case, unless you have 81+ missiles
in a stack.
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 10:15:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
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> .
> .
> .
> .
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> .
> .
> .
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>
>
> Marcin Oseka <maose.unnecessarybit@esculap.pleezreemoovzis.pl> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:11 -0800, dkarrde wrote:
>
>
>
>> 6. Someone was referring once to a method of mass-blessing missiles
>> by breaking and repairing them. How exactly?
>
>
> you may bless up to 40 missiles by plain dipping. Breaking-reparing
> method is usually wastefull in this case, unless you have 81+
> missiles in a stack.

Wow, I didn't even know that arrows and quarrels broke the laws of
dipping, interesting. Definately don't bother breaking them then; I
assumed they followed standard rules and you could only dip 9 =)
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:44:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:

> Twinge wrote:
>> roy axenov wrote:
>>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>>
>>>

[several snips]


and spoiler space



=

=


=


=


=


=

>
> You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
> close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?

U is way beyond my league. Let me win a couple more times the old normal
way and I'll reconsider :-)


>
>
> Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are past
> level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium plate
> mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take the
> entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the Hydras
> and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go into swamps
> (takes a bit more time than hunting on the assasin-pyramid
> road).

Until recently excursions in the wilderness were never an important part
of my gameplay. My current archer collected lots of arrows from
barbarians. However, I cannot imagine deliberately dooming myself.

> Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of
> weakness (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a
> wish on armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for
> the extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
> rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale is
> ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's there
> when you need it.
>

Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found - probably in Darkforge
- Nature's companion. Fire will no longer hurt me; I am going to get the
ROTHK now, and then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly short on
potions of water and I may need to build a bridge across the piranha pool
(no wand of cold).


>>>
>>> *BZZZZZT!* You gotta be kidding! Even if you can wish
>>> for 'of hunting' or 'of accuracy' it's simply not worth
>>> it. Oh, forget it, forget it please! Better save that
>>> wish for later!
>>
>> Agreed. Don't wish for this; hunting and accuracy bows
>> aren't _that_ rare, and don't even help that much
>> anyway. You cannot wish for, say, a brutal longbow of
>> devesation ;) 
>
> No way you should wish for a bow. They are easily
> destroyed and easy to find.
>

Point fully taken.

> If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
> wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers (plenty),
> 7LB and good marks in the missile device of choice and
> safe means of moving about (spell: Controlled Teleport).
> As mentioned above regarding wilderness and fletching
> getting past certain levels will open up new options to
> you.
>

Not just yet. I have only a hudred something hitpoints and just a handfull
of demon-slaying arrows. And my means of teleportation is teleportitis
(controlled with amulet).

> All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
> Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without Food
> pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
> definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
> Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can be
> useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought to have
> backstabbing covered by now.

My playing skill and experience makes me feel comfortable with food
pres. eg. to get strength from fire giant corpses. I have never tried
necromancy.

> .. or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
> certainly wish for writing sets.


Thanks soooo much! I hope I'll make good use of this advice.
M
January 10, 2005 5:11:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Marcin Oseka wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
>> Twinge wrote:
>>> roy axenov wrote:
>>>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>
> [several snips]
>
>
> and spoiler space
>
>
>
> =
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
>
> =
>
>>
>> You mean to say you crowned? Why on earth that. It'll
>> close all options for a U*E. Or was it a pre-crown?
>
> U is way beyond my league. Let me win a couple more
> times the old normal way and I'll reconsider :-)
>

Fair enough. I didn't mean to sound so blunt.

>> Once you have a pair of 7LB, means of dooming and are
>> past level 25 you'll be walking knee high in eternium
>> plate mails if you go wilderness scumming. Just take
>> the entourage, quickling and ogre encounters. And the
>> Hydras and Black Dragons (equipment piles) if you go
>> into swamps (takes a bit more time than hunting on the
>> assasin-pyramid road).
>
> Until recently excursions in the wilderness were never
> an important part of my gameplay. My current archer
> collected lots of arrows from barbarians. However, I
> cannot imagine deliberately dooming myself.
>

Wear a <foo> of damnation. Usually an orcish knife or
spear will turn up with that postfix. It increases the
amount of wilderness encounters tremendously.

>> Naturally ogres are for those with a ring of weakness
>> (may also be worth a wish). If I had to burn a wish on
>> armor it would be a crown. Possibly lightning for the
>> extra speed. Depends on the situation. Crown of Fire
>> rather than red dragon scale for sure. Once the scale
>> is ruined the fire immunity is gone. With a crown it's
>> there when you need it.
>>
>
> Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
> probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will no
> longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now, and
> then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly short on
> potions of water and I may need to build a bridge across
> the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
>

Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of logs
in your inventory.

[SNIP: Bow wishing... not]

>> If you can manage Greater Molochs it would be worth the
>> wish right now. You need blessed demon slayers
>> (plenty), 7LB and good marks in the missile device of
>> choice and safe means of moving about (spell:
>> Controlled Teleport). As mentioned above regarding
>> wilderness and fletching getting past certain levels
>> will open up new options to you.
>>
>
> Not just yet. I have only a hudred something hitpoints
> and just a handfull of demon-slaying arrows. And my
> means of teleportation is teleportitis (controlled with
> amulet).
>

Oki-dokey. You don't want to blow this particular event.

>> All good picks. Though Concentration in class skill for
>> Archers and Necromancy have less usefulness without
>> Food pres. Besides you can only make zombies, so it'll
>> definately have to be an SMC quickling royalty zombie.
>> Also Herbalism might be an option. Occationally it can
>> be useful to have if herb bushes are sparse. He ought
>> to have backstabbing covered by now.
>
> My playing skill and experience makes me feel
> comfortable with food pres. eg. to get strength from
> fire giant corpses. I have never tried necromancy.
>
>> .. or using the unicorn as mentioned above. I would
>> certainly wish for writing sets.
>
>
> Thanks soooo much! I hope I'll make good use of this
> advice.

So do I. I wait until I really need to scribe and do it in
one go so I can recover the lost mana immidiately
afterwards.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:44:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
>>
>>>Twinge wrote:
>>>
>>>>roy axenov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>[several snips]
>>
>>
>>and spoiler space
>>
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>
>>Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
>>probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will no
>>longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now, and
>>then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly short on
>>potions of water and I may need to build a bridge across
>>the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
>>
>
>
> Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of logs
> in your inventory.

Save any hatchets you find and give them to the carpenter; this will
raise your bridge building skill (more the higher your learning is).
January 10, 2005 7:49:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
>>>> Twinge wrote:
>>>>> roy axenov wrote:
>>>>>> Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> [several snips]
>>>
>>>
>>> and spoiler space
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
>>> probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will
>>> no longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now,
>>> and then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly
>>> short on potions of water and I may need to build a
>>> bridge across the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of
>> logs in your inventory.
>
> Save any hatchets you find and give them to the
> carpenter; this will raise your bridge building skill
> (more the higher your learning is).

Stuff like that is too valuable knowledge to have hidden
away in the "(Spoily) YAGBU: Complete list of HP & PP
Regenration information WAS: YAGBU: Healing, Regenration
Rates" thread. Also I think we need those alignment swifts
quantified. How many of them are level dependant and so
forth? For an ULE candidate at level 50 every white stone
counts.

Perhaps an auxillary site a'la ToGu/Vladi with the info
until AW can update the GB.
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 2:23:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
> Twinge wrote:
>
>>maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
>>
>>>Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:00:40 -0800, maddog wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Twinge wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>roy axenov wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Marcin Oseka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[several snips]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>and spoiler space
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Luckily this is no longer an issue, since I found -
>>>>probably in Darkforge - Nature's companion. Fire will
>>>>no longer hurt me; I am going to get the ROTHK now,
>>>>and then I'll try the TOEF. Right now I am terribly
>>>>short on potions of water and I may need to build a
>>>>bridge across the piranha pool (no wand of cold).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thats a bummer. Hope you can carry that truckload of
>>>logs in your inventory.
>>
>>Save any hatchets you find and give them to the
>>carpenter; this will raise your bridge building skill
>>(more the higher your learning is).
>
>
> Stuff like that is too valuable knowledge to have hidden
> away in the "(Spoily) YAGBU: Complete list of HP & PP
> Regenration information WAS: YAGBU: Healing, Regenration
> Rates" thread. Also I think we need those alignment swifts
> quantified. How many of them are level dependant and so
> forth? For an ULE candidate at level 50 every white stone
> counts.

All of them are. I posted the most important pieces of the formula
elsewhere; essentially, you'll recieve 0.02 of the stated amount at
level 50, so +5000 base would only actually give you 100 stones. I
forget if there is a minimum increase of 1 or not.

> Perhaps an auxillary site a'la ToGu/Vladi with the info
> until AW can update the GB.

Possibly, either an addendum to the guidebook or a 'Andy hasn't time to
update the guidebook with this information yet' page, etc. as I've
mentioned elsewhere as well. We'll see how it goes.