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First Post - Fire Resistance (spoily?)

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Anonymous
January 20, 2005 3:15:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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Hey everyone. Just discovered this newsgroup a while ago. I played lots
of ADOM back in around 1998, one of the latter gammas, then recently
started to play and actually read spoilers to study the game more
intricately. This also means that I don't know a lot of stuff, but I
will try to check out the GB before I ask anything stupid, as I think I
did with this question.

So here's my question. I have a lv. 18 female human elementalist. I am
wearing:

uncursed ancient mummy wrapping
uncursed ankh
uncursed sword of nonnak
uncursed large crystal shield
blessed ring of the high kings
blessed ring of fire resistence
uncursed elmental guantlets

very bare-bones, I know. I plan to frost-bolt everything anyway. I am
just at the stage of the game where there's really nothing else to do (I
think?) other than ID-scumming or ToEF. I don't like ID-scumming, so
ToEF it is.

The problem is, I am an elementalist, and I have eaten lots of fire
beetles and fire lizards, and even if that doesn't give me fire
resistence, at lv. 6 I should be fire-resistent, right? So that is
intrinsic, which should count for two, and I have at least three sources
of fire resistence in the RoHK, the ring of fire resistence, and the
elemental guantlets. Yet I am still taking 1-2 damage per turn. The GB
said that 4 should be adequate? And it looks like I have 5.

Although I faintly remember something about an earlier char, and
intrinsic (fire drake corpse) + elemental guantlets + 2 rings of fire
resistence was not enough, but removing one ring of fire resistence and
replacing it with Whirlwind was. So is it just that ring resistences
don't add (i.e. you can only get 1 level of resistence between the
rings)? Even then, it seemed that that setup had 4 source too, if the GB
is right about intrinsic fire resistence counting for 2.

Thanks.

-Yan
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 10:36:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Yan Zhang wrote:
> Spoiler Space
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> Hey everyone. Just discovered this newsgroup a while ago. I played lots
> of ADOM back in around 1998, one of the latter gammas, then recently
> started to play and actually read spoilers to study the game more
> intricately. This also means that I don't know a lot of stuff, but I
> will try to check out the GB before I ask anything stupid, as I think I
> did with this question.

Stupid questions are a part of life. A huge part. Nobody here will freak
out until you cross the Stupid-Truly Stupid frontier (e.g. "How do I
enter villages?")... or at least I will.

Don't worry, you're not there yet.

> So here's my question. I have a lv. 18 female human elementalist. I am
> wearing:
>
> uncursed ancient mummy wrapping
> uncursed ankh
> uncursed sword of nonnak
> uncursed large crystal shield
> blessed ring of the high kings
> blessed ring of fire resistence
> uncursed elmental guantlets
>
> very bare-bones, I know.

I'd say that's a pretty good setup at that point in the game, for an
elementalist anyway.

> I plan to frost-bolt everything anyway.

Only in the Tower. Otherwise, balance your attack. Melee, missile, magic.

> The problem is, I am an elementalist, and I have eaten lots of fire
> beetles and fire lizards, and even if that doesn't give me fire
> resistence, at lv. 6 I should be fire-resistent, right? So that is
> intrinsic, which should count for two, and I have at least three sources
> of fire resistence in the RoHK, the ring of fire resistence, and the
> elemental guantlets. Yet I am still taking 1-2 damage per turn. The GB
> said that 4 should be adequate? And it looks like I have 5.

The only thing I can think of that might help here is blessing the
equipment, especially the ring of fire resistance. I believe blessing
augments the effects. If it's all blessed already, then I'd be inclined
to believe that by "human", you meant "drakeling". (Which would be a
little Stupid.)

Perhaps you're doomed? I'm not sure if that matters, but it wouldn't be
particularly surprising if it did.

> Although I faintly remember something about an earlier char, and
> intrinsic (fire drake corpse) + elemental guantlets + 2 rings of fire
> resistence was not enough, but removing one ring of fire resistence and
> replacing it with Whirlwind was. So is it just that ring resistences
> don't add (i.e. you can only get 1 level of resistence between the
> rings)? Even then, it seemed that that setup had 4 source too, if the GB
> is right about intrinsic fire resistence counting for 2.

Hmm... I'm in over my head now. I never should have started writing this.

Anyway, bless your stuff and try again. Somebody in the know can tell more.

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 10:51:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Yan Zhang wrote:
>
>> Spoiler Space
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>> Hey everyone. Just discovered this newsgroup a while ago. I played
>> lots of ADOM back in around 1998, one of the latter gammas, then
>> recently started to play and actually read spoilers to study the game
>> more intricately. This also means that I don't know a lot of stuff,
>> but I will try to check out the GB before I ask anything stupid, as I
>> think I did with this question.
>
>
> Stupid questions are a part of life. A huge part. Nobody here will freak
> out until you cross the Stupid-Truly Stupid frontier (e.g. "How do I
> enter villages?")... or at least I will.
>
> Don't worry, you're not there yet.
>

Just a random funny story this reminds me of:

I introduced this game to a friend who never played roguelikes before
(who loves ADOM now, but anyway). I remember he came to me angrily 10
minutes after I told him over AIM how to start and play. His question
was like:

"Man, I couldn't pick up this small helmet, though I kept trying. Then I
starved to death really quickly. Do you need that much food?"

What the hell is a small helmet? Anyway. I soon figured out what helmet
it was: "Terinyo, a small Helmet".

(SNIP - equipment)

>> The problem is, I am an elementalist, and I have eaten lots of fire
>> beetles and fire lizards, and even if that doesn't give me fire
>> resistence, at lv. 6 I should be fire-resistent, right? So that is
>> intrinsic, which should count for two, and I have at least three
>> sources of fire resistence in the RoHK, the ring of fire resistence,
>> and the elemental guantlets. Yet I am still taking 1-2 damage per
>> turn. The GB said that 4 should be adequate? And it looks like I have 5.
>
>
> The only thing I can think of that might help here is blessing the
> equipment, especially the ring of fire resistance. I believe blessing
> augments the effects. If it's all blessed already, then I'd be inclined
> to believe that by "human", you meant "drakeling". (Which would be a
> little Stupid.)
>
> Perhaps you're doomed? I'm not sure if that matters, but it wouldn't be
> particularly surprising if it did.

I blessed everything, and made sure that I was not cursed/doomed by
praying until "very close". That does it, right?

>> Although I faintly remember something about an earlier char, and
>> intrinsic (fire drake corpse) + elemental guantlets + 2 rings of fire
>> resistence was not enough, but removing one ring of fire resistence
>> and replacing it with Whirlwind was. So is it just that ring
>> resistences don't add (i.e. you can only get 1 level of resistence
>> between the rings)? Even then, it seemed that that setup had 4 source
>> too, if the GB is right about intrinsic fire resistence counting for 2.
>
>
> Hmm... I'm in over my head now. I never should have started writing this.
>
> Anyway, bless your stuff and try again. Somebody in the know can tell more.
>

Just a new development, so I have a new theory:

I indeed was able to gain full resistance after eating a fire drake
corpse, though by my class power I should have already been resistant.
The only reason I can think of is that my class power's idea of fire
resistance is not the same as the intrinsic fire resistance I get from
eating corpses, and is somehow neglected if I had other sources of fire
resistence.

Though I died at the hands (err, energy rays) of the ACW. That is
another story. It did about ~80 damage to me, maybe more exp would have
helped. Is it just me or are the temple creatures a lot more beefed up
than they used to be 6 years ago? (I remember the GB mentions this in
"version changes", though I didn't realize it was this much. My one lv.
50 character back in the day beat the ACW when he was lv. 15 or
something. . .

How strong are energy rays anyway? I don't see an explicit calculation
anywhere, or how I can be made resistant to them.

-Yan
Related resources
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 4:44:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Yan Zhang wrote:
>
>> Spoiler Space
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>> The problem is, I am an elementalist, and I have eaten lots of fire
>> beetles and fire lizards, and even if that doesn't give me fire
>> resistence, at lv. 6 I should be fire-resistent, right? So that is
>> intrinsic, which should count for two, and I have at least three
>> sources of fire resistence in the RoHK, the ring of fire resistence,
>> and the elemental guantlets. Yet I am still taking 1-2 damage per
>> turn. The GB said that 4 should be adequate? And it looks like I have 5.
>
> The only thing I can think of that might help here is blessing the
> equipment, especially the ring of fire resistance. I believe blessing
> augments the effects. If it's all blessed already, then I'd be inclined
> to believe that by "human", you meant "drakeling". (Which would be a
> little Stupid.)

There used to be a bug that prevented elementalist intrinsic fire
resistance from helping against background heat in the ToEF. Don't know
if it still exists.

And it is well possible that the PC has not gained intrinsic fire
resistance from corpses either (in case that is counted differently),
since there is a random factor involved with those corpses. So maybe
there are only three sources after all?

Malte
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 6:07:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Yan Zhang wrote:
> Spoiler Space
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> So here's my question. I have a lv. 18 female human elementalist. I am
> wearing:

> blessed ring of the high kings
> blessed ring of fire resistence
> uncursed elmental guantlets
>
> The problem is, I am an elementalist, and I have eaten lots of fire
> beetles and fire lizards, and even if that doesn't give me fire
> resistence, at lv. 6 I should be fire-resistent, right? So that is
> intrinsic, which should count for two, and I have at least three sources
> of fire resistence in the RoHK, the ring of fire resistence, and the
> elemental guantlets. Yet I am still taking 1-2 damage per turn. The GB
> said that 4 should be adequate? And it looks like I have 5.

As far as I can remember that elementalist class power doesn't count
against the background heat in the ToEF, so the most reasonable
explanation would seem to be that despite all the corpses you still
haven't gained that intrinsic fire resistance. Adding one more source
should do the trick but it's easier said than done.

> Although I faintly remember something about an earlier char, and
> intrinsic (fire drake corpse) + elemental guantlets + 2 rings of fire
> resistence was not enough, but removing one ring of fire resistence and
> replacing it with Whirlwind was. So is it just that ring resistences
> don't add (i.e. you can only get 1 level of resistence between the
> rings)? Even then, it seemed that that setup had 4 source too, if the GB
> is right about intrinsic fire resistence counting for 2.

Rings of fire resistance don't stack for (at least) this purpose. The
RotHK and a ring of fire resistance do though. On the other hand
Whirlwind's fire resistance didn't use to help against the background
heat (in the earlier versions anyway, I don't know if that has changed),
so I'd be guessing your memory fails you on some bits there. Intrinsic
fire resistance, elemental gauntlets and for example the RotHK are
definitely enough to protect against the background heat. It doesn't
mean you're fully immune to fire though, breath attack will still hurt you.


Teemu
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 9:09:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

From: Teemu Kokki tkokki@hut.invalid
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:07:12 +0200

>Yan Zhang wrote:
>> Spoiler Space
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>

>Intrinsic
>fire resistance, elemental gauntlets and for example the RotHK are
>definitely enough to protect against the background heat. It doesn't
>mean you're fully immune to fire though, breath attack will still hurt you.

And if you ever get a drakeling to the Tower, no number of resistances or
immunities will stop him from burning out due to his hyperactive metabolism.
Speed is of the essence in that particular case (and is also suddenly in much
greater supply).
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 12:22:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> Josh Singh wrote:
>
>> Yan Zhang wrote:
>>
>>> Spoiler Space
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>>> The problem is, I am an elementalist, and I have eaten lots of fire
>>> beetles and fire lizards, and even if that doesn't give me fire
>>> resistence, at lv. 6 I should be fire-resistent, right? So that is
>>> intrinsic, which should count for two, and I have at least three
>>> sources of fire resistence in the RoHK, the ring of fire resistence,
>>> and the elemental guantlets. Yet I am still taking 1-2 damage per
>>> turn. The GB said that 4 should be adequate? And it looks like I have 5.
>>
> There used to be a bug that prevented elementalist intrinsic fire
> resistance from helping against background heat in the ToEF. Don't know
> if it still exists.

Yup, that was for 1.1.1.

> And it is well possible that the PC has not gained intrinsic fire
> resistance from corpses either (in case that is counted differently),
> since there is a random factor involved with those corpses. So maybe
> there are only three sources after all?

IIRC you can't get real intrinsic fire resistance anymore when you have the
elementalist one.

- ToGu
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 10:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

ToGu wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
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>> There used to be a bug that prevented elementalist intrinsic fire
>> resistance from helping against background heat in the ToEF. Don't
>> know if it still exists.
[...]
> IIRC you can't get real intrinsic fire resistance anymore when you have
> the elementalist one.

Either this has been changed or you misremember, since this is what the
original poster reported in his second post to the thread:

I indeed was able to gain full resistance after eating a fire drake
corpse, though by my class power I should have already been
resistant.

Malte
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 12:46:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> ToGu wrote:
>
>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
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>>>>>
>>> There used to be a bug that prevented elementalist intrinsic fire
>>> resistance from helping against background heat in the ToEF. Don't
>>> know if it still exists.
>
> [...]
>
>> IIRC you can't get real intrinsic fire resistance anymore when you
>> have the elementalist one.
>
> Either this has been changed or you misremember, since this is what the
> original poster reported in his second post to the thread:
>
> I indeed was able to gain full resistance after eating a fire drake
> corpse, though by my class power I should have already been
> resistant.

I went back and looked at the disassembly for the first time in a long while,
and discovered it was actually much worse: It varies from corpse to corpse :) 

Beetles, lizards and giants won't grant you resistance if you already "have" it,
while drakes and dragons will. This is because the first ones check for fire
resistance too when they check if you're lucky enough to get resistance from
them, while dragons just give you resistance. (This difference wouldn't matter
if resistance had just been checked in the "proper" way for the ToEF background
damage)

On the matter of fire resistance: this reminds me that the GB switched around
chance to get resistance from beetles and lizards - beetles really are more
likely to grant resistance than lizards.

- ToGu
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 12:46:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

ToGu wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>> ToGu wrote:
>>
>>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> .
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>>>> There used to be a bug that prevented elementalist intrinsic
>>>> fire resistance from helping against background heat in the
>>>> ToEF. Don't know if it still exists.
>>>
>>> IIRC you can't get real intrinsic fire resistance anymore when
>>> you have the elementalist one.
>>
>>
>> Either this has been changed or you misremember, since this is what
>> the original poster reported in his second post to the thread:
>>
>> I indeed was able to gain full resistance after eating a fire drake
>> corpse, though by my class power I should have already been
>> resistant.
>
>
> I went back and looked at the disassembly for the first time in a
> long while, and discovered it was actually much worse: It varies from
> corpse to corpse :) 
>
> Beetles, lizards and giants won't grant you resistance if you already
> "have" it, while drakes and dragons will. This is because the first
> ones check for fire resistance too when they check if you're lucky
> enough to get resistance from them, while dragons just give you
> resistance. (This difference wouldn't matter if resistance had just
> been checked in the "proper" way for the ToEF background damage)

Ah, indeed! Makes sense. I didn't make any note of that when I compiled
the corpse effects because it shouldn't matter.
Another one for the bug list, looks like.

> On the matter of fire resistance: this reminds me that the GB
> switched around chance to get resistance from beetles and lizards -
> beetles really are more likely to grant resistance than lizards.

Yeah, Andy hasn't had a lot of time to update the guidebook ;)  I
mentioned that as one of many important changes for the corpse effects.
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 1:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:

> Yeah, Andy hasn't had a lot of time to update the guidebook ;)  I
> mentioned that as one of many important changes for the corpse effects.

Check the mirror. All of the information has not been incorporated.
but the one under discussion has.

I'm having trouble with the main site.
--
Andy Williams
ADOM Guidebook: http://www.andywlms.com/adom/
Mirror: http://users.rcn.com/andy.williams/adom/
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 1:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Andy Williams wrote:
> Twinge wrote:
>
>
>> Yeah, Andy hasn't had a lot of time to update the guidebook ;)  I
>> mentioned that as one of many important changes for the corpse
>> effects.
>
>
> Check the mirror. All of the information has not been incorporated.
> but the one under discussion has.
>
> I'm having trouble with the main site.

Ah, I see. fair enough =)

By the way, instead of posting every little update suggestion I have
here, I made on page on our wiki for it:

http://adom.falldowngoboom.org/wiki/index.php/Recommend...

If you have the time (and care to bother), you could edit that page and
strike out stuff you've completed or something. For relatively minor
issues (that there shouldn't be a lot of discussion on) that seemed like
an easier, more logical route to take.
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 4:20:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:

> Andy Williams wrote:

> > Check the mirror. All of the information has not been incorporated.
> > but the one under discussion has.

> > I'm having trouble with the main site.

> By the way, instead of posting every little update suggestion I have
> here, I made on page on our wiki for it:

> http://adom.falldowngoboom.org/wiki/index.php/Recommend...

> If you have the time (and care to bother), you could edit that page and
> strike out stuff you've completed or something. For relatively minor
> issues (that there shouldn't be a lot of discussion on) that seemed like
> an easier, more logical route to take.

I looked at it; that will be very helpful and save a lot of time.
Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get to it until sometime
next week. On the road again... But after this trip I should be OK
until mid-February or so.
--
Andy Williams
ADOM Guidebook: http://www.andywlms.com/adom/
Mirror: http://users.rcn.com/andy.williams/adom/
!