How do I play a monk/beastfighter?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

My monk was doing very well for most of the early game. He was strong
and walls were not an issue to him. However, he began to fade out in
the middle game. He had to retreat from Nonnak and Griff many times
before winning. The pyramid almost killed him. Eventually, he died
shortly after killing the snake from beyond. He took about 70 damage
instantly from a lucky berzerker emperor. However, I was getting tired
of him even before I got careless. Cap was not a problem at all. It was
damage. Lack of it.

How do I deal out enough damage? I had level 10 in unarmed combat, 31
strength ( very high for a drakeling!), and level 15. I set my tactics
to berserk. I was only doing 4 or 5 damage a hit after PV. I completely
depended on critical hits from find weakness. Do most beastfighters and
monk players abuse starvation to get ridiculously high strength? I
don't understand how I'm supposed to kill most monsters with such a
weak attack...

And despite having excellent learning and mana (both somewhere in the
20's), there just weren't enough spellbooks out there. The monk's
intelligence just didn't help me much. The library is out of the
question until I can take on molochs and ancient dragons (haha).

Overall, with the exception of finding a rare magic writing set, monks
just don't make the cut for me. I now prefer paladins as
fighter/spellcaster hybrids. Still, I'm open minded, so I would like
some more background on the class, just out of interest. This was my
first serious attempt at playing as a monk!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I played human monks a lot last december and, my, that was a
refreshing experience. Took one of them to the (normal) victory.
Under 25 days game time, never stat-scummed, and never wielded a
weapon.

Higher Game wrote:

> How do I deal out enough damage? I had level 10 in unarmed
> combat, 31 strength ( very high for a drakeling!), and level
> 15. I set my tactics to berserk. I was only doing 4 or 5
> damage a hit after PV. I completely depended on critical hits
> from find weakness. Do most beastfighters and monk players
> abuse starvation to get ridiculously high strength? I don't
> understand how I'm supposed to kill most monsters with such a
> weak attack...

You *definitely* were burdened. Get burdened, and monks lose
all of their yummy HtH bonuses. That's one of the reasons I
started playing them, - normally I'm such a packrat it stinks.
Doesn't works that way with monks.

Stay unburdened and (non-greater) molochs are not a problem
for a mid-level monk - he could easily slay those beasties with
his bare hands. Don't try that on greater molochs, though.
A single (un)lucky crit, and you're dead meat.

> And despite having excellent learning and mana (both somewhere
> in the 20's), there just weren't enough spellbooks out there.
> The monk's intelligence just didn't help me much. The library
> is out of the question until I can take on molochs and ancient
> dragons (haha).

Monks don't find a lot of random drop spellbooks. That's just
something you have to accept. If you really want to go
spellcasting-heavy, you gotta get to and clear the library
somehow (or find a convenient book shop or two). Not that monks
really need it - they're perfectly lethal even without spells.

> Overall, with the exception of finding a rare magic writing
> set, monks just don't make the cut for me. I now prefer
> paladins as fighter/spellcaster hybrids. Still, I'm open
> minded, so I would like some more background on the class,
> just out of interest. This was my first serious attempt at
> playing as a monk!

Monks are amazing. Their unarmed attack is simply incredible.
Their movement speed bonuses make the game really fast - I bet
it's possible to run through it in under 10 days game time.
The carrying weight restriction is a good thing, too. And finding
(or wishing for) an MWS is even better for them than for all
other characters.

--
roy axenov

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:
> My monk was doing very well for most of the early game. He was strong
> and walls were not an issue to him. However, he began to fade out in
> the middle game. He had to retreat from Nonnak and Griff many times
> before winning. The pyramid almost killed him. Eventually, he died
> shortly after killing the snake from beyond. He took about 70 damage
> instantly from a lucky berzerker emperor. However, I was getting tired
> of him even before I got careless. Cap was not a problem at all. It was
> damage. Lack of it.

Were you burdened (or worse) by chance? That _heavily_ affects a monk's
ToHit and Damage.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I was not unburdened. I had 2 of the 3 cap talents, so I had no
problems at all with weight.

I never ran from monsters I could kill. I decided to do the water
temple because I already did the dwarven quests. Darkforge was not an
option because I had no lightning attacks and steel golems are nearly
impossible to damage. I wanted to get the water orb before doing the
TotHK. I did have a source of cold. I had about 100 charges of ice
ball. I just wanted 10 extra willpower against the skeleton king.

I just think monks have awfully low power, considering they do not have
the benefit of a shield. Corrupting hits were becoming an issue due to
very low DV (35 or so). Shieldless characters shouldn't have a hard
time damaging monsters with only ~20 PV! Also, they can't bless their
fists against undead or demons.

My spear barbs would have around 60 DV and the rune trident at this
point (all ravens become spear barbs). They would all die due to
carelessness, of course!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I mean unburdened. I was not burdened. Damage wise, I would do about 35
damage normally. After going through PV, this just didn't amount to
much.

I'm a newb at ADOM, so I still have some questions. I have the .flg
file, but I don't know how to look at it and post it. Also, is crystal
considered a "higher metal"? I know crystal is not a metal in real
life. Is it safe to wear a crystal tower shield in the ToEF?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:

> My monk was doing very well for most of the early game. He was strong
> and walls were not an issue to him. However, he began to fade out in
> the middle game. He had to retreat from Nonnak and Griff many times
> before winning. The pyramid almost killed him. Eventually, he died
> shortly after killing the snake from beyond. He took about 70 damage
> instantly from a lucky berzerker emperor. However, I was getting tired
> of him even before I got careless. Cap was not a problem at all. It was
> damage. Lack of it.
>
> How do I deal out enough damage? I had level 10 in unarmed combat, 31
> strength ( very high for a drakeling!), and level 15.

Were you perhaps burdened or worse, or wearing a shield? Next time you
have a high-level monk running, use the "W" command to check what
significant difference that makes.

Level 15 seems fairly low for this stage by the way -- for monks and
beastfighters, level is the most important factor in deciding their
special unarmed damage. Maybe a race with lower experience requirements
(Hurthilings, Gnomes, Humans, ...) might suit you better. That being
said, I never had problems with Troll Monks, so it should work either way.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

ToEF is usually where my adventures end. I had one character beat it.
My trollish barbarian got a very lucky tremendous blow and crushed the
ACW. He was promptly killed by a 100+ damage critical hit from a fire
elemental. So, I guess I've technically beaten the ToEF...

I'm back to using a drakish barbarian. I don't play trolls anymore.
Drakelings are my favorite because they get alertness and acid spit.

Here's the good parts of the .flg. I WAS just one hit ponit from
living... (no screeny because of format issues. Berserker emperor
proved my undoing.)

ZoZo St:31 Le:25 Wi:30 Dx:26 To:31 Ch:12 Ap: 3 Ma:18
Pe:18 L+
DV/PV: 19/26 H: 0(223) P: 90(90) Exp: 16/338343 D: 21
Sp: 122
Blessed Berserk

Head : uncursed rusty metal cap (+1, +1) [+0, +1]
[50s]
Neck : uncursed ankh
[3s]
Body : uncursed ancient mummy wrapping [+1, +5] {Ap-8}
[60s]
Girdle : uncursed adamantium girdle [+0, +3]
[18s]
Cloak : uncursed light cloak [+1, +0]
[20s]
Right Hand : -
Left Hand : -
Right Ring : blessed ring of protection +1
[1s]
Left Ring : uncursed ring of mental stability [+0, +1] {Le+1}
[1s]
Bracers : uncursed rusty bracers of speed [+0, +0] (+4 spd)
[10s]
Gauntlets : blessed elemental gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +3]
[10s]
Boots : blessed boots of the divine messenger [+3, +3] {Dx+5}
[25s]
Missile weapon: -
Missiles : bundle of 7 uncursed drakish scurgari (+5, 1d8+3)
[70s]
Tool : cursed Chaos Orb of Elemental Water {Wi+10}
[100s]

(I was crowned with some nice boots. Too bad the RNG wouldn't grant
me a better helmet!)

Unarmed fighting 11 +10 +6 +5 Mastery 2522

(mainly melee)

Right hand: +90 bonus to hit, 1d24+29 damage

(Even under berserk, this just isn't enough damage to cut it. I was
doing more than I thought, but this left me so defenceless.)

Alertness ................100 (superb) [+2d4]
Athletics ................ 91 (superb) [+2d4]
Backstabbing ............. 33 (fair) [+1d5]
Climbing ................. 56 (good) [+1d5]
Concentration ............100 (superb) [+2d4]
Dodge .................... 71 (great) [+1d5]
Find weakness ............100 (superb) [+1d3]
First aid ................ 62 (good) [+3d4]
Food preservation ........100 (superb) [+2d4]
Haggling ................. 23 (mediocre) [+3d5]
Healing ..................100 (superb) [+2d4]
Herbalism ................ 84 (great) [+1d5]
Listening ................ 83 (great) [+3d4]
Literacy ................. 73 (great) [+2d4]
Music .................... 7 (poor) [+4d5]
Stealth .................. 73 (great) [+2d4]
Swimming ................. 59 (good) [+3d3]
Tactics .................. 20 (mediocre) [+3d4]
Two weapon combat ........ 53 (good) [+3d4]

(I had concentration maxed, ready for some great spells. Never got any.
And having high learning let me increase my skills a lot early.)
Blah blah blah...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I just thought of 2 things that might have hurt me. Does a speed of 122
greatly harm the leveling rate? How much experience did I lose because
of it?

Also, is it worth pumping up your max hit points with potions of extra
healing? I usually save them for emergencies, but I usually don't
recognize an emergency when I'm in one.

Oh, and Khelly died. I was hoping for some writing sets, so corruption
wouldn't be a big deal to me. And an ultra ending is too hard!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1106384228.952571.62500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> My monk was doing very well for most of the early game. He was strong
> and walls were not an issue to him. However, he began to fade out in
> the middle game. He had to retreat from Nonnak and Griff many times
> before winning. The pyramid almost killed him. Eventually, he died
> shortly after killing the snake from beyond. He took about 70 damage
> instantly from a lucky berzerker emperor. However, I was getting tired
> of him even before I got careless. Cap was not a problem at all. It was
> damage. Lack of it.
>
> How do I deal out enough damage? I had level 10 in unarmed combat, 31
> strength ( very high for a drakeling!), and level 15. I set my tactics
> to berserk. I was only doing 4 or 5 damage a hit after PV. I completely
> depended on critical hits from find weakness.

As other posters have already said: avoid becoming burdened or worse like
the plague with a monk, it makes a mockery of your skills. For those really
tough critters that are still a problem when you are unburdened, well...
that's what you have been training your missile skills all this time for,
haven't you?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:

> I was not unburdened. I had 2 of the 3 cap talents, so I had no
> problems at all with weight.

Do you mean "I was not burdened"?

> I just think monks have awfully low power, considering they do not have
> the benefit of a shield. Corrupting hits were becoming an issue due to
> very low DV (35 or so). Shieldless characters shouldn't have a hard
> time damaging monsters with only ~20 PV! Also, they can't bless their
> fists against undead or demons.

Really, you shouldn't have problems dishing out damage with monks. It is
hard to tell the source of the problem without more information, but if
you experience similar problems again, check the "W" command and send a
character dump.

Here are two examples of what monks are capable of:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3ABF0AE9.42713A92%40durham.ac.uk
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B49BF4D.4284DC8B%40informatik.uni-freiburg.de

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I'm a newb at ADOM, so I still have some questions. I have the .flg
> file, but I don't know how to look at it and post it.
>

Just use notepad, you can set the open file dialog so it shows you all
files, not only txt.
Or rename it to *.txt



--
rgra bug list: http://adombugs.100free.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:

> I mean unburdened. I was not burdened. Damage wise, I would do about 35
> damage normally. After going through PV, this just didn't amount to
> much. I'm a newb at ADOM, so I still have some questions. I have the
> .flg file, but I don't know how to look at it and post it.

Hmm, that's not too bad. Most monsters have a much lower PV. But maybe
your problem was something else after all.

The .flg file is just a text file. Are you on Windows? Then you can open
it with any text editor (like Notepad), copy it to the clipboard with
Ctrl+C, then paste it into your browser (looks like you are posting via
Google Groups) with Ctrl+V while composing a posting.

Be sure to snip irrelevant stuff when posting a .flg. If as a newbie you
don't know what is irrelevant, I guess nobody will eat you alive if you
don't, though. ;-)

> I'm a newb at ADOM, so I still have some questions. I have the .flg
> file, but I don't know how to look at it and post it. Also, is crystal
> considered a "higher metal"? I know crystal is not a metal in real
> life. Is it safe to wear a crystal tower shield in the ToEF?

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

Yes, crystal is safe from fire. I suppose that this is not a monk we're
talking about now? Because shields should be a no-no for monks.

Assuming this is not a save-scummed character, getting to the ToEF is
quite an achievement. For me, 80% of the characters that make it that
far go on to win the game.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:

> I just thought of 2 things that might have hurt me. Does a speed of 122
> greatly harm the leveling rate?

Yes. Monks and Beastfighters have a greater benefit from higher levels
that other classes because of their damage bonuses *and* they don't
really need high speed because of the "built-in seven-league boots"
class ability.

> Also, is it worth pumping up your max hit points with potions of extra
> healing? I usually save them for emergencies, but I usually don't
> recognize an emergency when I'm in one.

No, bless them, save them and learn to recognize emergencies.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:

> Here's the good parts of the .flg. I WAS just one hit ponit from
> living... (no screeny because of format issues. Berserker emperor
> proved my undoing.)

Never fight melee monsters when low on hit points! With a monk of that
speed, you could have easily applied hit-and-run tactics.

> ZoZo St:31 Le:25 Wi:30 Dx:26 To:31 Ch:12 Ap: 3 Ma:18
> Pe:18 L+
> DV/PV: 19/26 H: 0(223) P: 90(90) Exp: 16/338343 D: 21
> Sp: 122
> Blessed Berserk

Stats are ok, level is too low! At that level you should be leaving the
Pyramid!

> Head : uncursed rusty metal cap (+1, +1) [+0, +1]
> Neck : uncursed ankh
> Body : uncursed ancient mummy wrapping [+1, +5] {Ap-8}
> Girdle : uncursed adamantium girdle [+0, +3]
> Cloak : uncursed light cloak [+1, +0]
> Right Ring : blessed ring of protection +1
> Left Ring : uncursed ring of mental stability [+0, +1] {Le+1}
> Bracers : uncursed rusty bracers of speed [+0, +0] (+4 spd)
> Gauntlets : blessed elemental gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +3]
> Boots : blessed boots of the divine messenger [+3, +3] {Dx+5}
> Missiles : bundle of 7 uncursed drakish scurgari (+5, 1d8+3)
> Tool : cursed Chaos Orb of Elemental Water {Wi+10}
>
> (I was crowned with some nice boots. Too bad the RNG wouldn't grant
> me a better helmet!)

PV should be higher. Better helmet, different armour (only wear that one
where it's actually needed). The bracers don't cut it since your speed
is good enough anyway, and you must be kidding about the ring of
protection. ;-)

> Unarmed fighting 11 +10 +6 +5 Mastery 2522
>
> (mainly melee)

Did you train Bows and possibly Crossbows? Those are extremely useful
for all PCs.

> Right hand: +90 bonus to hit, 1d24+29 damage
>
> (Even under berserk, this just isn't enough damage to cut it. I was
> doing more than I thought, but this left me so defenceless.)

With a PV like that, I wouldn't go berserk all the time. Monks get very
good DV bonuses when not berserk.

> Athletics ................ 91 (superb) [+2d4]
> Tactics .................. 20 (mediocre) [+3d4]
>
> (I had concentration maxed, ready for some great spells. Never got any.
> And having high learning let me increase my skills a lot early.)
> Blah blah blah...

Maxing Concentration with a Monk isn't worth it, at least not if you
could have invested into these two skills.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert <helmert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
[ ... ]
> PV should be higher. Better helmet, different armour (only wear that one
> where it's actually needed).

Spoily? Maybe, so...
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all: monks get
severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour. I've just made a quick test
with the savegame of a Drakling monk winner. Without any armour, DV/PV is
81/42, but after putting on an adamantium plate mail [-2, +11], DV/PV is
50/53 -- a quite obvious drop in DV, while there is no change in unarmed
damage. So it's not that easy to find a good outfit for a monk -- not only
burdening inhibits their fighting style, but also suits of armour that
provide better protection. It isn't really surprising that the Shirt of the
Saints is one of their crowning gifts, is it?

[ ... ]

>> (Even under berserk, this just isn't enough damage to cut it. I was
>> doing more than I thought, but this left me so defenceless.)

> With a PV like that, I wouldn't go berserk all the time. Monks get very
> good DV bonuses when not berserk.

Indeed. The tactics setting of monks should hardly ever go beyond Very
aggressive, the point beyond which they lose their DV bonus. Again, the
Drakling winner from above has -12 DV on Very Aggressive, but a crippling
-31 DV on Berserker (with a Tactics skill at 100). Go figure.

Cheers, Gero

--
Gero Kunter (gero.kunter@epost.de)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> Gero Kunter wrote:
> > Malte Helmert <helmert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
> > [ ... ]
> >
> > Spoily? Maybe, so...
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> > Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all: monks
> > get severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour.

[...]

> Indeed. The robes of resistance would seem to be the ideal body
> armour for Monks.

And that's rather strange. Someone (Twinge?) guessed that Monks only
get their DV bonus while wearing body armours lighter than 60s. Robes
of resistance are heavier than that, but still, Monks DO seem to
retain the bonus while wearing those.

--
roy axenov

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
> > Malte Helmert wrote:
> >
> >>Gero Kunter wrote:
> >>
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>.
> >>>
> >>>Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all:
> >>>monks get severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> >>Indeed. The robes of resistance would seem to be the ideal
> >>body armour for Monks.
> >
> >
> > And that's rather strange. Someone (Twinge?) guessed that Monks
> > only get their DV bonus while wearing body armours lighter than
> > 60s. Robes of resistance are heavier than that, but still, Monks
> > DO seem to retain the bonus while wearing those.
>
> According to the Guidebook, they do weigh 60s. Does that clear it
> up?

I was absolutely certain they were 120s, so I checked in the game.
My, I should pay attention. Both you and the GB are absolutely right
there. 60s, indeed.

I apologize.

--
roy axenov

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Gero Kunter wrote:
> Malte Helmert <helmert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
> [ ... ]
>
>>PV should be higher. Better helmet, different armour (only wear that one
>>where it's actually needed).
>
>
> Spoily? Maybe, so...
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all: monks get
> severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour. I've just made a quick test
> with the savegame of a Drakling monk winner. Without any armour, DV/PV is
> 81/42, but after putting on an adamantium plate mail [-2, +11], DV/PV is
> 50/53 -- a quite obvious drop in DV, while there is no change in unarmed
> damage. So it's not that easy to find a good outfit for a monk -- not only
> burdening inhibits their fighting style, but also suits of armour that
> provide better protection. It isn't really surprising that the Shirt of the
> Saints is one of their crowning gifts, is it?

Indeed. The robes of resistance would seem to be the ideal body armour
for Monks.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

roy axenov wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>>Gero Kunter wrote:
>>
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>
>>>Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all: monks
>>>get severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour.
>
> [...]
>
>
>>Indeed. The robes of resistance would seem to be the ideal body
>>armour for Monks.
>
>
> And that's rather strange. Someone (Twinge?) guessed that Monks only
> get their DV bonus while wearing body armours lighter than 60s. Robes
> of resistance are heavier than that, but still, Monks DO seem to
> retain the bonus while wearing those.

According to the Guidebook, they do weigh 60s. Does that clear it up?

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

So, does this mean I'm doomed to wear a heavily smithed elven chain
mail unless I somehow get one of those artifact armors?
I guess monks aren't right for me after all...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On 2005-01-24, Malte Helmert <helmert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>
>>>Gero Kunter wrote:
>>>
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>.
>>>>
>>>>Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all: monks
>>>>get severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>Indeed. The robes of resistance would seem to be the ideal body
>>>armour for Monks.
>>
>>
>> And that's rather strange. Someone (Twinge?) guessed that Monks only
>> get their DV bonus while wearing body armours lighter than 60s. Robes
>> of resistance are heavier than that, but still, Monks DO seem to
>> retain the bonus while wearing those.
>
> According to the Guidebook, they do weigh 60s. Does that clear it up?

Not so fast! The AMW also weighs 60s, but it is treated like "heavy
armor" as far as a monk's DV bonuses go. I suspect only clothes and
robes are acceptable. I was rather surprised to find the AMW not be,
given it's presumably made of cloth, but perhaps it's too stiff from
the preparation.

njm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..


> So, does this mean I'm doomed to wear a heavily smithed elven chain
> mail unless I somehow get one of those artifact armors?
> I guess monks aren't right for me after all...

You'll have the same DV as anyone else if you wear heavy stuff, but
you'll get a BONUS if you wear light stuff.


Quote what you're responding to. It appears you're using google groups
-- You'll have to go to more options for the message, and click reply
there instead of replying at the bottom of the page. (Snip irrelevant
stuff, though.)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Nathan Miller <rat@athei.st> wrote:
> On 2005-01-24, Malte Helmert <helmert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
>> roy axenov wrote:
>>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gero Kunter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all: monks
>>>>>get severe DV penalties for wearing heavy armour.
>>> [...]
>>>>Indeed. The robes of resistance would seem to be the ideal body
>>>>armour for Monks.
>>>
>>> And that's rather strange. Someone (Twinge?) guessed that Monks only
>>> get their DV bonus while wearing body armours lighter than 60s. Robes
>>> of resistance are heavier than that, but still, Monks DO seem to
>>> retain the bonus while wearing those.
>>
>> According to the Guidebook, they do weigh 60s. Does that clear it up?

> Not so fast! The AMW also weighs 60s, but it is treated like "heavy
> armor" as far as a monk's DV bonuses go. I suspect only clothes and
> robes are acceptable. I was rather surprised to find the AMW not be,
> given it's presumably made of cloth, but perhaps it's too stiff from
> the preparation.

The situation seems to be slightly more complicated. Here is a list of all
pieces of armour that are less than 100s, with the exception of the Robes of
Resistance which were unavailable to my test monk (L:50):

DV/PV Weight Penalty
without any body armour 82/42 - no
elven chain mail [+0, +5] 82/47 10s no
Shirt of the Saints [+8, +4] 89/46(?) 20s no
fancy clothes [+3, +0] 55/42 30s yes
clothes [+0, +0] 82/42 40s no
ugly clothes [+0, +0] 52/42 50s yes
black robe [+0, +1] 82/43 50s no
mummy wrapping [-3, +0] 50/42(?) 50s yes
clean robe [+2, +1] 84/43 60s no
robe [+0, +1] 82/43 60s no
robe of invisibility [+0, +3] 52/45 60s yes
blood-stained robe [+0, +4] 52/46 60s yes
Ancient Mummy Wrapping [+1, +5] 53/47 60s yes
leather apron [+3, +2] 55/44 75s yes

So obviously there is neither a weight limit nor a restriction like "only
clothes and robes are allowed" -- an ordinary robe weights 60s, just like a
blood-stained one, but the one is allowed, the other not. Elven chain mail
is very light, and doesn't cause a penalty, but it is different from all the
other allowed suits of armour in being made of metal.

Note that there is something strange with the Shirt of the Saints and the
mummy wrapping. The base DV value is 82, this should add up to 90 with the
Shirt. It doesn't. Likewise with the mummy wrapping. In all instances, the
penalty for wearing unsuiting armour results in a penalty of -30 to DV. For
mummy wrappings, the penalty is only -29. This was tested against a wrapping
with [-2, +0] (DV/PV: 51/42) and one with [-1, +0] (DV/PV: 52/42). I really
have no idea why mummy wrappings should be different from all other armours
(this is not the case for the AMW, by the way).

Cheers, Gero

> njm


--
Gero Kunter (gero.kunter@epost.de)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Gero Kunter wrote:
> Nathan Miller <rat@athei.st> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-01-24, Malte Helmert <helmert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
>>
>>>roy axenov wrote:
>>>
>>>>Malte Helmert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gero Kunter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>

[On DV bonus for monks with light armour]

> The situation seems to be slightly more complicated. Here is a list of all
> pieces of armour that are less than 100s, with the exception of the Robes of
> Resistance which were unavailable to my test monk (L:50):
>
> DV/PV Weight Penalty
> without any body armour 82/42 - no
> elven chain mail [+0, +5] 82/47 10s no
> Shirt of the Saints [+8, +4] 89/46(?) 20s no
> fancy clothes [+3, +0] 55/42 30s yes
> clothes [+0, +0] 82/42 40s no
> ugly clothes [+0, +0] 52/42 50s yes
> black robe [+0, +1] 82/43 50s no
> mummy wrapping [-3, +0] 50/42(?) 50s yes
> clean robe [+2, +1] 84/43 60s no
> robe [+0, +1] 82/43 60s no
> robe of invisibility [+0, +3] 52/45 60s yes
> blood-stained robe [+0, +4] 52/46 60s yes
> Ancient Mummy Wrapping [+1, +5] 53/47 60s yes
> leather apron [+3, +2] 55/44 75s yes
>
> So obviously there is neither a weight limit nor a restriction like "only
> clothes and robes are allowed" -- an ordinary robe weights 60s, just like a
> blood-stained one, but the one is allowed, the other not. Elven chain mail
> is very light, and doesn't cause a penalty, but it is different from all the
> other allowed suits of armour in being made of metal.

Looks like Thomas hard-coded certain armour types to get the DV bonus
and forgot to add fancy and ugly clothes and blood-stained robes as they
were added to the game (which happened only very recently compared to
the other armour types).

> Note that there is something strange with the Shirt of the Saints and the
> mummy wrapping. The base DV value is 82, this should add up to 90 with the
> Shirt. It doesn't. Likewise with the mummy wrapping. In all instances, the
> penalty for wearing unsuiting armour results in a penalty of -30 to DV. For
> mummy wrappings, the penalty is only -29. This was tested against a wrapping
> with [-2, +0] (DV/PV: 51/42) and one with [-1, +0] (DV/PV: 52/42). I really
> have no idea why mummy wrappings should be different from all other armours
> (this is not the case for the AMW, by the way).

I'd guess that the DV modifiers of armours are applied before some other
(partly multiplicative) modifiers, so the modifiers are again modified.
Was this on normal tactics with a character without the Tactics skill?
If the character was not on normal tactics or has the Tactics skill, I
wouldn't be surprised to see such results.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> Gero Kunter wrote:

Moderately spoily: Monk DV bonuses

..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..


>>
>> So obviously there is neither a weight limit nor a restriction like
>> "only clothes and robes are allowed" -- an ordinary robe weights
>> 60s, just like a blood-stained one, but the one is allowed, the
>> other not. Elven chain mail is very light, and doesn't cause a
>> penalty, but it is different from all the other allowed suits of
>> armour in being made of metal.
>
>
> Looks like Thomas hard-coded certain armour types to get the DV bonus
> and forgot to add fancy and ugly clothes and blood-stained robes as
> they were added to the game (which happened only very recently
> compared to the other armour types).

Indeed he did. Here's what I found:

The armors you can wear and not be counted as wearing heavy armor
include the following:
Robe, Black Robe, Shirt of the Saints, Robes of Resistance, Elven Chain
Mail, Clean Robe, Clothes.
ALSO, you cannot be weilding a shield for this bonus to apply.

The bonus is Equal to the (Monk's Level * 2) / 3.

Beastfighters get a bonus of Level / 3, but have no armor restrictions.


I suppose this could technically be conisdered a bug, though we can't
say for certain.