I just had an idea about wizard talents

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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Because wizards have such a great amount of mana, the mana talents and
book caster talents are not important. However, to kill monsters that
shrug bolts, a good bow IS important. So, picking the missile talents
is better than picking the mana talents!

The shield and defensive talents also look like great picks. For the
late game (after clearing bugville before a final dive), the speed
talents could also be great.

Overall, I just don't see the point of the mana talents for wizards.
They should give a +% boost to mana instead of (3,6,9). After defence
tactics, the shield talents amount to about 10 DV, which is a LOT
better than 18 more mana, which is just about a single level's worth!
More missile damage is also very nice because wizards are often elven
and great at bows.

The mana and book cast talents just seem suited for mindcrafters
instead of wizards. Just something I now realized.
12 answers Last reply
More about idea wizard talents
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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    (Is spoiler space needed for a non first post?)

    Certain potions can give spells to mindcrafters, making book casts
    possible. They would be late game picks anyway, after getting some of
    these potions. I would pick missile talents first.

    1.0 was a little easier. There were no talents, but the game was harder
    in other ways. Apples and oranges.

    And I thought my idea was good. I hadn't read it anywhere else.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Higher Game wrote:
    > SPOILS
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    > Because wizards have such a great amount of mana, the mana talents and
    > book caster talents are not important. However, to kill monsters that
    > shrug bolts, a good bow IS important. So, picking the missile talents
    > is better than picking the mana talents!
    >
    > The shield and defensive talents also look like great picks. For the
    > late game (after clearing bugville before a final dive), the speed
    > talents could also be great.
    >
    > Overall, I just don't see the point of the mana talents for wizards.
    > They should give a +% boost to mana instead of (3,6,9). After defence
    > tactics, the shield talents amount to about 10 DV, which is a LOT
    > better than 18 more mana, which is just about a single level's worth!
    > More missile damage is also very nice because wizards are often elven
    > and great at bows.

    If you think this idea is revolutionary or something, think again. If
    you don't like the mana talents, then don't take them.

    This isn't a blog. We don't need you to document every little epiphany
    you have. If you manage to win with a wizard that doesn't take wizard
    talents, then say whatever you want about it in the VP to show everyone
    what a good idea it turned out to be. Keep in mind that there were no
    wizard talents, or any talents whatsoever, in previous versions of ADOM
    and people won with wizards just fine. Not having the wizard talents is
    no new idea; in 1.0.0 and earlier, there was no choice in the matter.

    > The mana and book cast talents just seem suited for mindcrafters
    > instead of wizards. Just something I now realized.

    Mindcrafters can't learn spells in the first place. They're the worst
    spellbook readers in the game. The book talents are a waste. They can't
    even learn Light. They are an extremely bad choice for a casting class.

    Just so you don't hope to get that intended mindcrafter by with magic.

    --
    Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
    The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
    http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
    or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Higher Game wrote:
    > .
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    > (Is spoiler space needed for a non first post?)

    YES, yes it is. And I don't know where your attributions and quotes are
    ending up, but you'd better figure it out, because people *WILL* tire of
    you, regardless of your excuses.

    You also need more spoiler space.


    > Certain potions can give spells to mindcrafters, making book casts
    > possible. They would be late game picks anyway, after getting some of
    > these potions.

    I don't know how many potions and wands of wonder you're hoping to find
    in a game, and I sure don't know how you expect to necessarily get
    something useful out of each drink or zap. And I don't know how you
    expect to find the appropriate books for the spells you get stuck with,
    considering mindcrafters get very few of them.

    A spellcasting mindcrafter is a pipe dream, unless you are a profoundly
    talented player. Bluntly put, you don't qualify as anything close to a
    profoundly talented player.

    > 1.0 was a little easier. There were no talents, but the game was harder
    > in other ways. Apples and oranges.

    That's a subjective call.

    > And I thought my idea was good. I hadn't read it anywhere else.

    I didn't say it wasn't a good idea. I said it's no revolution in ADOM
    gaming. That's exactly why you haven't read it anywhere.

    --
    Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
    The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
    http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
    or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Josh Singh wrote:

    >This isn't a blog. We don't need you to document
    > every little epiphany you have.

    Wow, somebody needs to switch to decaf.

    >From the FAQ, question numero uno:

    "All things pertaining to ADOM are acceptable here,
    including requests for help locating and playing the
    game, announcements of new versions of the game,
    and so forth."

    I think discussion of strategy and technique is very
    much on-topic.

    Cheers --
    -- Quothz
    quothz@yahoo.com
    Making little vegetables out of big vegetables since 2002.
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Malte wrote:

    > I think Josh was more annoyed by the general tone
    > and lack of netiquette of those posts.

    I'm not sure how a plural snuck in; the post looks
    fine to me. Got spoiler space, an appropriate
    topic, and it's in the correct newsgroup. From here
    it looks like -Josh- can't tell netiquette from a napkin -
    his tone in this thread seems a bit over the top. If his
    problem is with the poster, rather than the post, well,
    that's why Kibo gave us killfiles.

    Cheers --
    -- Quothz
    quothz@yahoo.com
    Making little vegetables from big vegetables since 2002.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Higher Game wrote:

    > .
    > .
    > .
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    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > (Is spoiler space needed for a non first post?)

    Yes. People who want to avoid spoilers do not necessarily skip over a
    whole thread just because the initial post contained spoilers. Besides,
    posts often arrive out of sequence, so this post might arrive before
    your first post.

    Malte
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Quothz wrote:

    > Josh Singh wrote:
    >
    >
    >>This isn't a blog. We don't need you to document
    >>every little epiphany you have.
    >
    > Wow, somebody needs to switch to decaf.
    >
    >>From the FAQ, question numero uno:
    >
    > "All things pertaining to ADOM are acceptable here,
    > including requests for help locating and playing the
    > game, announcements of new versions of the game,
    > and so forth."
    >
    > I think discussion of strategy and technique is very
    > much on-topic.

    I think Josh was more annoyed by the general tone and lack of netiquette
    of those posts. The posts are certainly on-topic, but some attention to
    the posting style would be well advised.

    Malte
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    The last two undead greater vaults I encountered had more than 1
    emperor lich (in 1.1.1).
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Quothz wrote:
    > Malte wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I think Josh was more annoyed by the general tone
    >>and lack of netiquette of those posts.
    >
    >
    > I'm not sure how a plural snuck in; the post looks
    > fine to me. Got spoiler space, an appropriate
    > topic, and it's in the correct newsgroup. From here
    > it looks like -Josh- can't tell netiquette from a napkin -
    > his tone in this thread seems a bit over the top. If his
    > problem is with the poster, rather than the post, well,
    > that's why Kibo gave us killfiles.

    Survey the regulars and old hands in the group and see which ones can't
    stand me. In fact, find a few who haven't enjoyed having my off-colour
    sentiments thrown in now and then over the past 2 years, just keeping
    things interesting.

    And, believe me, if John Rowat were around, I'd stand down and let him
    handle all this. He has a way with words that sets fools aflame. He's
    not around, so somebody has to do the dirty work. I'm not nearly as
    skilful, but what the hell.

    Besides, Malte's right. I was already well-biased against Higher Game
    when I got to this thread. If I wasn't, I probably wouldn't have said
    anything here.

    --
    Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
    The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
    http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
    or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Rob F wrote:
    > The last two undead greater vaults I encountered had more than 1
    > emperor lich (in 1.1.1).

    I think there are greater vaults with several "boss" monsters, I think.
    By "more than 1", do you mean a few or more than a dozen (like in the
    olden days)?

    Malte
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    "Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:1107665721.587957.309190@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

    > SPOILS
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    > Because wizards have such a great amount of mana, the mana talents and
    > book caster talents are not important. However, to kill monsters that
    > shrug bolts, a good bow IS important. So, picking the missile talents
    > is better than picking the mana talents!
    >
    > The shield and defensive talents also look like great picks. For the
    > late game (after clearing bugville before a final dive), the speed
    > talents could also be great.
    >
    > Overall, I just don't see the point of the mana talents for wizards.
    > They should give a +% boost to mana instead of (3,6,9). After defence
    > tactics, the shield talents amount to about 10 DV, which is a LOT
    > better than 18 more mana, which is just about a single level's worth!
    > More missile damage is also very nice because wizards are often elven
    > and great at bows.
    >
    > The mana and book cast talents just seem suited for mindcrafters
    > instead of wizards. Just something I now realized.
    >

    I'd like to note that the Book Caster talents might be better for Wizards
    than they appear at first glance. While most of the time I have plenty
    of castings for any spell I want, there are some rarer books, such as
    Teleportation, Invisibility, Mystic Shovel, Identify, Remove Curse, etc
    where the amount I might want to use them greatly exceeds the number of
    castings that I might find for them. In that cast, being able to Book
    Caster properly comes in handy.

    Also, when you encounter monsters that shrug off bolts, you might
    consider a few other approaches before wasting slaying ammo. For
    instance, Burning Hands is powerful enough to be almost broken, and I use
    it extensively (one of the things that makes the ToEF hardest for my
    Wizards is that it doesn't work there!). Later on, work with ball
    spells, which also cannot be shrugged off.

    If I recall correctly, shrugging off is also a function of skill level.
    Thus it is often better to specialize in a few attack spells before
    branching out. Besides the aforementioned Burning Hands, I'd really
    reccomend using Magic Missile as much as possible throughout the game --
    monsters won't resist it generally, and it doesn't destroy objects on the
    ground. Be careful about bouncing bolts though! I've lost many
    excellent characters to just that, and it is so depressing when it
    happens.

    Brian
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

    Netbrian wrote:
    > "Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in
    > news:1107665721.587957.309190@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
    >
    > > SPOILS
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    > > Because wizards have such a great amount of mana, the mana talents
    and
    > > book caster talents are not important. However, to kill monsters
    that
    > > shrug bolts, a good bow IS important. So, picking the missile
    talents
    > > is better than picking the mana talents!
    > >
    > > The shield and defensive talents also look like great picks. For
    the
    > > late game (after clearing bugville before a final dive), the speed
    > > talents could also be great.
    > >
    > > Overall, I just don't see the point of the mana talents for
    wizards.
    > > They should give a +% boost to mana instead of (3,6,9). After
    defence
    > > tactics, the shield talents amount to about 10 DV, which is a LOT
    > > better than 18 more mana, which is just about a single level's
    worth!
    > > More missile damage is also very nice because wizards are often
    elven
    > > and great at bows.
    > >
    > > The mana and book cast talents just seem suited for mindcrafters
    > > instead of wizards. Just something I now realized.
    > >
    >
    > I'd like to note that the Book Caster talents might be better for
    Wizards
    > than they appear at first glance. While most of the time I have
    plenty
    > of castings for any spell I want, there are some rarer books, such as

    > Teleportation, Invisibility, Mystic Shovel, Identify, Remove Curse,
    etc
    > where the amount I might want to use them greatly exceeds the number
    of
    > castings that I might find for them. In that cast, being able to
    Book
    > Caster properly comes in handy.
    >
    > Also, when you encounter monsters that shrug off bolts, you might
    > consider a few other approaches before wasting slaying ammo. For
    > instance, Burning Hands is powerful enough to be almost broken, and I
    use
    > it extensively (one of the things that makes the ToEF hardest for my
    > Wizards is that it doesn't work there!). Later on, work with ball
    > spells, which also cannot be shrugged off.
    >
    > If I recall correctly, shrugging off is also a function of skill
    level.
    > Thus it is often better to specialize in a few attack spells before
    > branching out. Besides the aforementioned Burning Hands, I'd really
    > reccomend using Magic Missile as much as possible throughout the game
    --
    > monsters won't resist it generally, and it doesn't destroy objects on
    the
    > ground. Be careful about bouncing bolts though! I've lost many
    > excellent characters to just that, and it is so depressing when it
    > happens.
    >
    > Brian
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    I find I have plenty of mana for book casting teleportation when it's
    necessary (D30 or deeper when I want to save time.) Invisibility is
    rarely needed and not too expensive anyway. Mystic shovel isn't needed
    much either, and there are always wands of digging. Scrolls of identify
    are common, too.

    I just now realized that the sword of Nonnak gives resistance to death
    rays, and I had it in my inventory, only thinking of the willpower
    boost when I got to 43 and needed 5 more. I'll have my next wizard use
    swords just to use this weapon. Death ray resistance on a weapon is
    very nice.
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