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I wish there was an attack warning feature

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Anonymous
February 20, 2005 8:27:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The "are you sure you want to attack" message only pops up when the PC
is about to attack a non hostile monster, like a farmer. However, I
wish I could specify my PC to display the "are you sure" message when
karmics and cats pop up. It would be very helpful when I'm leaning on
the keyboard to clear an easy random vault with a melee character.

Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats or
hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option because I
like to play very fast and actively.

More about : attack warning feature

Anonymous
February 21, 2005 4:48:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108949236.242714.242220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The "are you sure you want to attack" message only pops up when the PC
> is about to attack a non hostile monster, like a farmer. However, I
> wish I could specify my PC to display the "are you sure" message when
> karmics and cats pop up. It would be very helpful when I'm leaning on
> the keyboard to clear an easy random vault with a melee character.
>
> Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats or
> hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option because I
> like to play very fast and actively.

I think the whole point about karmics and kitties is that you have to play
carefully. It's a test of tactics in dealing with them, and care and
attention on the part of the player... Would be quite unfair, I think, if
you could have some part of the game that would always stop you from doiong
wrong like that...

--
Darren Grey, aka Tekhne
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 9:37:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

SPOILER SPACE














Where is your spoilerspace...? Sombody Who is unspoiled will now think
something diffrent about cats and karmics.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 10:03:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Darren Grey wrote:
> "Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1108949236.242714.242220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > The "are you sure you want to attack" message only pops up when the
PC
> > is about to attack a non hostile monster, like a farmer. However, I
> > wish I could specify my PC to display the "are you sure" message
when
> > karmics and cats pop up. It would be very helpful when I'm leaning
on
> > the keyboard to clear an easy random vault with a melee character.
> >
> > Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats
or
> > hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option
because I
> > like to play very fast and actively.
>
> I think the whole point about karmics and kitties is that you have to
play
> carefully. It's a test of tactics in dealing with them, and care and
> attention on the part of the player... Would be quite unfair, I
think, if
> you could have some part of the game that would always stop you from
doiong
> wrong like that...
>
> --
> Darren Grey, aka Tekhne

No to mention, that it would confuse newbies that do not know why it is
so bad idea to kill that karmic dragon or cave lion which is tearing
you apart. (taken from their point of view)

but afaik, game should have safeties for REALLY stupid things you can
do (low hp swiming without skill) - like "hesitation"

if "very defensive" or "coward" tactics is employed (or maybe when
doomed too), character will hesitate (in efect wait one turn and print
message "You really dont feel like swimming in such bad condition", or
while drinking unid potion: "You cant bring yourself to dring this
strange fluid" or while reading unid scroll/book "Those runes scare you
and you have seccond thoughts about reading them") after hesitation
message, trying to do it again will finally do it.

imho this will add level of realisn to playing cowards :) 
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:46:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<1108949236.242714.242220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
> The "are you sure you want to attack" message only pops up when the PC
> is about to attack a non hostile monster, like a farmer. However, I
> wish I could specify my PC to display the "are you sure" message when
> karmics and cats pop up. It would be very helpful when I'm leaning on
> the keyboard to clear an easy random vault with a melee character.
>
> Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats or
> hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option because I
> like to play very fast and actively.

That kind of reckless playing will get you killed.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 2:01:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Petr Prokop wrote:

> Darren Grey wrote:
>
>> "Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1108949236.242714.242220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> The "are you sure you want to attack" message only pops up when
>>> the PC is about to attack a non hostile monster, like a farmer.
>>> However, I wish I could specify my PC to display the "are you
>>> sure" message when karmics and cats pop up. It would be very
>>> helpful when I'm leaning on the keyboard to clear an easy random
>>> vault with a melee character.
>>>
>>> Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats
>>> or hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option
>>> because I like to play very fast and actively.
>>
>> I think the whole point about karmics and kitties is that you have
>> to play carefully. It's a test of tactics in dealing with them,
>> and care and attention on the part of the player... Would be quite
>> unfair, I think, if you could have some part of the game that would
>> always stop you from doiong wrong like that...
>
> No to mention, that it would confuse newbies that do not know why it
> is so bad idea to kill that karmic dragon or cave lion which is
> tearing you apart. (taken from their point of view)
>
> but afaik, game should have safeties for REALLY stupid things you can
> do (low hp swiming without skill) - like "hesitation"

....there *is* something in the case of "low HP swimming without skill" -
the yes/no prompt of "Do you want to jump into the water without knowing
how to swim?", for characters regardless of HP who do not have the
Swimming skill.

> if "very defensive" or "coward" tactics is employed (or maybe when
> doomed too), character will hesitate (in efect wait one turn and
> print message "You really dont feel like swimming in such bad
> condition", or while drinking unid potion: "You cant bring yourself
> to dring this strange fluid" or while reading unid scroll/book "Those
> runes scare you and you have seccond thoughts about reading them")
> after hesitation message, trying to do it again will finally do it.
>
> imho this will add level of realisn to playing cowards :) 

Also slow things down (which could be fatal in some circumstances -
desperately drinking potions in the heat of combat in hopes of a healing
potion, because if you don't find one you're dead anyway), and add an
annoying level of "I know better than you do what you want to do" to the
game which I for one would find offputting.

If you want to play a coward, then do it; your character's cowardice vs.
courage vs. reckless neglect of anything resembling danger, in all
practical terms, really is all in your head. All of those are entirely a
matter of how the character reacts, mentally, to any particular
situation; since your character doesn't actually *have* a mind, just
whatever you dedicate to doing its thinking while playing, you can
simulate that kind of thing exactly as much as you want to.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 3:26:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> Higher Game wrote:
>

>> Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats
>> or hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option
>> because I like to play very fast and actively.
>>
>
> You could try to write a macro for adombot/adom sage and let it stop
> when a cat/karmic is next to you. However attacking just anything
> isn't a good idea at all, when I'm playing 'fast and actively' I
> nearly always end up being smashed by a too powerful opponent. (A
> swordsman on ID1 just killed my level6 farmer, because I didn't pay
> attention)

That's what always ended up killing me; simple lack of paying attention.
Clearing a vault, or killing worms, or anything like that... I often
just start going about it quickly since the enemies are easy and all.
Then an experience purple worm critical hits me two turns in a row and
I'm suddenly dead when I was 10 away from full hp last time I checked ;P
It's hard to be patient and pay attention, but it's rather difficult
(not impossible) to win unless you do.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 5:04:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

spoily...

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

I failed miserably to keep a straight face when I read that
on Mon, 21 Feb 2005 01:48:02 -0000, Darren Grey wrote:
> "Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1108949236.242714.242220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> I hate killing cats or hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully"
>> is not an option because I like to play very fast and actively.
>
> I think the whole point about karmics and kitties is that you have to
> play carefully. It's a test of tactics in dealing with them, and care
> and attention on the part of the player... Would be quite unfair, I
> think, if you could have some part of the game that would always stop
> you from doiong wrong like that...

Agreed. Nothing wrong with playing fast and actively, but you'll have
to accept the disadvantages it incurs. After all, it doesn't make the
game unwinnable or anything.

Léon (aka Oliphaunt)
--
"Linux is very fast.
It can do an infinite loop in about 5 seconds."
-- Linus Torvalds
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 3:29:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"Petr Prokop" <zwei2stein@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108998236.828799.72650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> but afaik, game should have safeties for REALLY stupid things you can
> do (low hp swiming without skill) - like "hesitation"
>
> if "very defensive" or "coward" tactics is employed (or maybe when
> doomed too), character will hesitate (in efect wait one turn and print
> message "You really dont feel like swimming in such bad condition", or
> while drinking unid potion: "You cant bring yourself to dring this
> strange fluid" or while reading unid scroll/book "Those runes scare you
> and you have seccond thoughts about reading them") after hesitation
> message, trying to do it again will finally do it.

Nah, way too tedious - would put everybody off using Coward mode. And
besides, that's what trial and error is for. I know I learnt a lot of thing
from my very many early deaths when playing the game. It's what toughens
you up and makes you think more flexibly so you can win the game in the end.
This shouldn't be spoiled for new players.

> imho this will add level of realisn to playing cowards :) 

Just because you're a coward doesn't mean you're not stupid ;) 

--
Darren Grey
February 22, 2005 11:17:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game" <sidney...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108949236.242714.242220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The "are you sure you want to attack" message only pops up when the
PC
> is about to attack a non hostile monster, like a farmer. However, I
> wish I could specify my PC to display the "are you sure" message when

> karmics and cats pop up. It would be very helpful when I'm leaning on

> the keyboard to clear an easy random vault with a melee character.
>
> Is there any way to modify ADOM to have this? I hate killing cats or
> hitting karmics by mistake. "Play carefully" is not an option because
I
> like to play very fast and actively.

I take issue with everyone leaping up and saying "that's the price you
pay, and that's how it should be." Accidentally attacking Karmics and
Cats etc is actually a side-effect of a shortcut in the ADOM interface;
that movement and attacking are controlled by the same keys. In
reality it really isn't possible to accidentally stick your sword into
something you didn't mean to even if you are running from something,
and striving for 'perfect play' in ADOM sometimes slows the game to the
point of dull.

I don't see anything wrong with an RFE for a customisable 'safelist' of
monsters that you get a prompt for.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 12:03:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

KevinO <dthspell@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Accidentally attacking Karmics and
> Cats etc is actually a side-effect of a shortcut in the ADOM interface;
> that movement and attacking are controlled by the same keys.
Good diagnosis.

> I don't see anything wrong with an RFE for a customisable 'safelist' of
> monsters that you get a prompt for.
Bad remedy.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 12:03:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:

> KevinO <dthspell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Accidentally attacking Karmics and Cats etc is actually a
>> side-effect of a shortcut in the ADOM interface; that movement and
>> attacking are controlled by the same keys.
>
> Good diagnosis.
>
>> I don't see anything wrong with an RFE for a customisable
>> 'safelist' of monsters that you get a prompt for.
>
> Bad remedy.

Well, it might not be good, but it's better than the (original?)
proposal of a *non*-customizable one. The only reason I can think of why
this is bad is that by removing the possibility of such accidental
attacks it would remove or very sharply limit the problem of such
creatures to begin with - and I don't see how *any* possible remedy for
the diagnosed problem (short of, or even perhaps including, an interface
revamp such that attacking and movement are controlled separately) could
avoid doing that.

As a side note, a slightly related point is that because movement and
attacking are considered identical you will attack something you move
into even if you can't see it (in the dark or when blind) - leading to
the question of how you know in time whether or not there's something in
the square you've just moved into, and the fact that this is also
unrealistic and would not be resolved by such a proposed safelist
(unless such a list did not take into account whether or not you could
tell what you were attacking, in which case it would be even less
appropriate than is what we currently have).

Phew. That's overly dense and not well written, but...

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 4:28:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The Wanderer wrote:
> Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
>
> > KevinO <dthspell@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Accidentally attacking Karmics and Cats etc is actually a
> >> side-effect of a shortcut in the ADOM interface; that movement and
> >> attacking are controlled by the same keys.
> >
> > Good diagnosis.
> >
> >> I don't see anything wrong with an RFE for a customisable
> >> 'safelist' of monsters that you get a prompt for.
> >
> > Bad remedy.
>
> Well, it might not be good, but it's better than the (original?)
> proposal of a *non*-customizable one. The only reason I can think of
why

I'm sorry. I meant to mention it to be customizable. For example,
lawfuls warned about not attacking that hostile white unicorn, but
chaotics don't care about killing lawful creatures.

> this is bad is that by removing the possibility of such accidental
> attacks it would remove or very sharply limit the problem of such
> creatures to begin with - and I don't see how *any* possible remedy
for
> the diagnosed problem (short of, or even perhaps including, an
interface
> revamp such that attacking and movement are controlled separately)
could
> avoid doing that.
>
> As a side note, a slightly related point is that because movement and
> attacking are considered identical you will attack something you move
> into even if you can't see it (in the dark or when blind) - leading
to
> the question of how you know in time whether or not there's something
in
> the square you've just moved into, and the fact that this is also
> unrealistic and would not be resolved by such a proposed safelist
> (unless such a list did not take into account whether or not you
could
> tell what you were attacking, in which case it would be even less
> appropriate than is what we currently have).
>
> Phew. That's overly dense and not well written, but...
>
> --
> The Wanderer
>
> Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with
any
> side of it.
>
> A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 9:23:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Higher Game wrote:

> The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
>>
>>> KevinO <dthspell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Accidentally attacking Karmics and Cats etc is actually a
>>>> side-effect of a shortcut in the ADOM interface; that movement
>>>> and attacking are controlled by the same keys.
>>>
>>> Good diagnosis.
>>>
>>>> I don't see anything wrong with an RFE for a customisable
>>>> 'safelist' of monsters that you get a prompt for.
>>>
>>> Bad remedy.
>>
>> Well, it might not be good, but it's better than the (original?)
>> proposal of a *non*-customizable one. The only reason I can think
>> of why
>
> I'm sorry. I meant to mention it to be customizable. For example,
> lawfuls warned about not attacking that hostile white unicorn, but
> chaotics don't care about killing lawful creatures.

This sounds like you're saying that what creatures are on the list
depends on what alignment you are, which certainly doesn't count as
customizability. What would would be something analogous to the current
status of autopickup - each player defines in the config file which
things will be automatically picked up and which will not.

<snip 49-line quote>
Please, learn to snip. Cut out anything you aren't replying to. (And as
a side note, you might also want to re-wrap any lines which get messed
up when being quoted - there are a number of them in your last reply to
me, including the one ending in "why" above.) Thank you.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 11:20:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I failed miserably to keep a straight face when I read that
on Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:59:11 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> Przemyslaw Brojewski wrote:
>
>> KevinO <dthspell@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Accidentally attacking Karmics and Cats etc is actually a
>>> side-effect of a shortcut in the ADOM interface; that movement and
>>> attacking are controlled by the same keys.
>>
>> Good diagnosis.
>>
>>> I don't see anything wrong with an RFE for a customisable
>>> 'safelist' of monsters that you get a prompt for.
>>
>> Bad remedy.
>
> Well, it might not be good, but it's better than the (original?)
> proposal of a *non*-customizable one. The only reason I can think of why
> this is bad is that by removing the possibility of such accidental
> attacks it would remove or very sharply limit the problem of such
> creatures to begin with - and I don't see how *any* possible remedy for
> the diagnosed problem (short of, or even perhaps including, an interface
> revamp such that attacking and movement are controlled separately) could
> avoid doing that.

Well... an option to toggle between 'move without attacking' mode and
'move or attack' mode might be a better remedy. It would probably not
suit people using the 'quick and active' style of gameplay. If they
hold down the arrow keys to clean a horde of monsters, this won't save
them from attacking monsters they don't want to attack. And maybe even
having to switch between the modes isn't active enough for them.

Decoupling movement and attack keys is not really an option, IMO. And I
really don't see Thomas implementing the safelist feature. I think
those spoily creatures are there exactly to discourage the fast style of
gameplay. On the other hand, the mode toggle will also help in other
cases.

Léon (aka Oliphaunt)
--
"Linux is very fast.
It can do an infinite loop in about 5 seconds."
-- Linus Torvalds
!