Time passing in dungeon making monsters stronger?

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I noticed in a game I was playing the other day that after spending
quite some time in a dungeon, the monsters appeared to get stronger
and stronger. Was it just my impression?

 

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Pink_isn't_well wrote:
> I noticed in a game I was playing the other day that after spending
> quite some time in a dungeon, the monsters appeared to get stronger
> and stronger. Was it just my impression?

I've noticed it, too. I once killed a shambling mound (and even
stronger monsters as well) in the big room! I don't know if it was my
PC's level from leveling in there, or the amount of time I was in there.

 

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Pink_isn't_well wrote:

> I noticed in a game I was playing the other day that after spending
> quite some time in a dungeon, the monsters appeared to get stronger
> and stronger. Was it just my impression?

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To a certain extent. What causes is this is that each monster gains
experience proportional to the number of their kin you've killed.
Thus, if you killed a ton of rats, each subsequent rat will be slightly
stronger. This can cause some balance issues with monsters that tend
to be summoned in large numbers, like Jackals or Spiders.

 

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On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 23:58:03 +0000, Dynamique Dolce wrote:

> Pink_isn't_well wrote:
>
>> I noticed in a game I was playing the other day that after spending
>> quite some time in a dungeon, the monsters appeared to get stronger and
>> stronger. Was it just my impression?
>
> Spoiler
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> To a certain extent. What causes is this is that each monster gains
> experience proportional to the number of their kin you've killed. Thus, if
> you killed a ton of rats, each subsequent rat will be slightly stronger.
> This can cause some balance issues with monsters that tend to be summoned
> in large numbers, like Jackals or Spiders.

To clarify slightly: monsters gain experience proportional to the number
of their kin you've killed relative to their likely of being spawned. This
means that monsters which occur frequently (rats) don't gain so fast, but
monsters which occur less frequently naturally but are summoned often
(jackals and spiders) gain experience much more quickly.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Possibly spoily...
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Malte Helmert wrote:
> With that one exception, the type of monsters generated
> in a given level usually stays the same over time. It is
> not related to PC level either [1].

Hm... I've seen a moloch generated on level 10 of the CoC after closing
the gate with a L50 gnomish ranger.

 

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Malte Helmert wrote:

[...]
> With that one exception, the type of monsters generated in a
> given level usually stays the same over time. It is not related to
> PC level either [1].

[...]
> [1] Unlike, for example, Nethack, where monster difficulty is based
> on the sum of PC level and dungeon level.

Monster generation *does* depend on PC experience level. During my
last games I entered the CoC at PC experience level 17 and at CoC:1 I
seem to recall quite appropriate tough monsters like troll chiefs, hill
giants and similar.

 

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On 6 Mar 2005 22:23:45 GMT, Pink_isn't_well wrote:

> I noticed in a game I was playing the other day that after spending
> quite some time in a dungeon, the monsters appeared to get stronger
> and stronger. Was it just my impression?

In addition to things others have mentioned, there is one specific
dungeon level where monsters become quickly too dangerous to handle. You
might want to try going to different places to see if the problem goes
away, or listen to songs of Mad Minstrel if you can find him.

Janne Joensuu,
Endoperez

 

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"Higher Game" <sidneyg83@yahoo.com> wrote on Mon, 07 Mar 2005
06:17:31 GMT in rec.games.roguelike.adom:

> I've noticed it, too. I once killed a shambling mound (and even
> stronger monsters as well) in the big room! I don't know if it
> was my PC's level from leveling in there, or the amount of time
> I was in there.
>

I was saying that *mosters* get stronger, not your character.

 

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"J.M. Joensuu" <spam_wanted_here@hotmail.com> wrote on Mon, 07 Mar
2005 11:27:38 GMT in rec.games.roguelike.adom:

> In addition to things others have mentioned, there is one
> specific dungeon level where monsters become quickly too
> dangerous to handle.

I know that one. So it doesn't happen in most other places? I'm just
asking whether it's standard in the ADOM world, monsters getting
stronger in the dungeon as time goes by.

 

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Pink_isn't_well wrote:
> "J.M. Joensuu" <spam_wanted_here@hotmail.com> wrote on Mon, 07 Mar
> 2005 11:27:38 GMT in rec.games.roguelike.adom:
>
>
>>In addition to things others have mentioned, there is one
>>specific dungeon level where monsters become quickly too
>>dangerous to handle.
>
> I know that one. So it doesn't happen in most other places? I'm just
> asking whether it's standard in the ADOM world, monsters getting
> stronger in the dungeon as time goes by.

With that one exception, the type of monsters generated in a given level
usually stays the same over time. It is not related to PC level either [1].

However, if you kill many monsters of the same type, then monsters of
that type will become much stronger in the future. This is known as the
"uberjackal" effect because it is most common for monsters that - like
jackals - are summoned in great quantities. This has nothing to do with
how long you stay on a given dungeon level, though.

So in your case, unless you were in that particular dungeon, I'd guess
that you were just unlucky.

Malte

[1] Unlike, for example, Nethack, where monster difficulty is based on
the sum of PC level and dungeon level.

 

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Jason Allen wrote:
> Possibly spoily...
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> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>>With that one exception, the type of monsters generated
>>in a given level usually stays the same over time. It is
>>not related to PC level either [1].
>
> Hm... I've seen a moloch generated on level 10 of the CoC after closing
> the gate with a L50 gnomish ranger.

Interesting - never happened to me. Maybe closing the gate has an effect?

Several roguelikes change the monster generation routines on the way
back up the dungeon. Crawl comes to mind.

Malte

 

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Malte Helmert wrote:
> Jason Allen wrote:
>
>> Possibly spoily...
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>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>
>>> With that one exception, the type of monsters generated
>>> in a given level usually stays the same over time. It is
>>> not related to PC level either [1].
>>
>> Hm... I've seen a moloch generated on level 10 of the CoC after closing
>> the gate with a L50 gnomish ranger.
>
> Interesting - never happened to me. Maybe closing the gate has an effect?
>
> Several roguelikes change the monster generation routines on the way
> back up the dungeon. Crawl comes to mind.

I too have observed higher level monsters in early areas, with high level
PCs who have not closed yet the gate. Are you sure PC level isn't a factor?
For example, I've seen a Dorn Beast in the big room (without the message
that can indicate an out of depth generation).

 

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Richard Honz wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>With that one exception, the type of monsters generated in a
>>given level usually stays the same over time. It is not related to
>>PC level either [1].
>
> [...]
>
>>[1] Unlike, for example, Nethack, where monster difficulty is based
>>on the sum of PC level and dungeon level.
>
> Monster generation *does* depend on PC experience level. During my
> last games I entered the CoC at PC experience level 17 and at CoC:1 I
> seem to recall quite appropriate tough monsters like troll chiefs, hill
> giants and similar.

I stand corrected. Still, my advice to the OP would be not to worry
about this too much, and explore levels at your own pace. In a normal
game, this feature should not have a significant (if any) effect.

Malte

 

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Stephen White wrote:
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> I too have observed higher level monsters in early areas, with high level
> PCs who have not closed yet the gate. Are you sure PC level isn't a factor?

No. If it exists (which now sounds likely, given your and other people's
experience), then it must be such a small factor for my playing style
that I never noticed it. On the other hand, if this feature has been
added or cranked up in recent versions (post-1.0.0), I would not be in a
position to know.

Back to the original poster's observations, has anyone experienced a
similar increase in difficulty caused by merely *staying* at one place
for a long time, rather than advancing in level?

Malte