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You feel as if behaving in proper form...

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Anonymous
April 14, 2005 5:57:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

S
p
o
i
l
e
r

S
p
a
c
e

a
n
d

a

l
i
t
t
l
e

m
o
r
e

.... while killing some monsters. So far I had this message after
killing quickling lords, annihilators, master lichen (I'm not so sure
about this one) and some others. How many high level chaotic monsters
give such lawful boost? I suspect it might be difficult to stay
neutral in the later stages of the game (unless you kill an equal
amount of lawfuls)...

Regards,
Arkady.
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 9:34:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:57:55 -0700, Zarin wrote:

> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> S
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> a
> n
> d
>
> a
>
> l
> i
> t
> t
> l
> e
>
> m
> o
> r
> e
>
> quickling lords, annihilators, master lichen (I'm not so sure about this

I would expect master liches to move you towards lawful.

The master lichen shoots some anthrax spores. You feel diseased.
The master lichen spawns some rock lichens!
(Sorry, couldn't resist)

> lawful boost? I suspect it might be difficult to stay neutral in the
> later stages of the game (unless you kill an equal amount of lawfuls)...

Dig a few graves, kill a few confused children, farmers or goodwives
and you'll balance it out very quickly.
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 5:25:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Zarin wrote:

..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
[snip]

> I suspect it might be difficult to stay
> neutral in the later stages of the game (unless you kill an equal
> amount of lawfuls)...

One should think so; yet I've never had any problems here. Even clearing
the Mana Temple *and* D50 does squat to your alignment. Either the
alignment bonus from killing is insignificant on higher levels, or it is
insignificant for non-lawfuls, or it is insignificant altogether.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 3:11:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Helmut Hohberger wrote:
> Zarin wrote:
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> [snip]
>
>> I suspect it might be difficult to stay
>> neutral in the later stages of the game (unless you kill an equal
>> amount of lawfuls)...
>
>
> One should think so; yet I've never had any problems here. Even clearing
> the Mana Temple *and* D50 does squat to your alignment. Either the
> alignment bonus from killing is insignificant on higher levels, or it is
> insignificant for non-lawfuls, or it is insignificant altogether.

Seconded. I don't play with the Law skill very often (i.e. never) but I
have played plenty of crowned neutrals, and none of them have had
trouble so much as pushing N+ in the late game. Since most monsters in
the game are chaotic, I would imagine lawful boosts for slaying them, if
any, are restricted to greater undead, greater demons and big-tymer
chaos beings, and you encounter plenty of those in the endgame without
suffering an alignment blast. Heck, there are plenty of balors on D:50
(and they're definitely among the greatest of demons given the
experience they're worth), but when you get through them all, you'll
still be N= (or whatever you started with, you know). Any boost is
insignificant, at least for neutrals.

<segue>
Hey, Helmut. Great to see you again. I was wondering whereabouts you were...

Quickling queens! (Cackle.)

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 3:11:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Helmut Hohberger wrote:
>
>> Zarin wrote:
>>
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .

[snip all meaningful discussion for directionless tattle]

> <segue>
> Hey, Helmut. Great to see you again. I was wondering whereabouts you
> were...

I was around all right. Just took a break from ADoM and r.g.r.a. Not
that anything's wrong with either. I just shifted my spare time
priorities somewhat towards reading actual books and playing Jagged
Alliance 2. Once I'll have finished the latter, I'll go back to failing
miserably with human monks and gnomish merchants. Or maybe I'll give
trying to get better at Crawl another shot.

Anyway, I missed this place. Is anything wrong with my life? (Don't
bother coming up with the obvious reply. I *do* have one.)

I can't say I've kept up with r.g.r.a over the last couple o'months, but
some very superficial skimming through has proved somewhat, er,
disquieting. I'm not here for a few weeks and suddenly you're one of the
most respected posters around and excel at challenge games? Wassup? I
find that constant creaking and crackling in the Space-Time continuum
truly unsettling.

;) 

> Quickling queens! (Cackle.)

Stop startling me like that.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 4:25:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Helmut Hohberger wrote:
> Josh Singh wrote:
>
>> Helmut Hohberger wrote:
>>
>>> Zarin wrote:
>>>
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>
>
> [snip all meaningful discussion for directionless tattle]
>
>> <segue>
>> Hey, Helmut. Great to see you again. I was wondering whereabouts you
>> were...
>
>
> I was around all right. Just took a break from ADoM and r.g.r.a. Not
> that anything's wrong with either.

Not at all. Sometimes I get fed up with the group as well. ;) 

Actually, after my failed "Fling the Bling" thing, I'm taking a break
from ADOM myself so I can fiddle around with Iter Vehemens Ad Necem.
It's a novel game, but sometimes getting leprosy all the time isn't so
great.

> I can't say I've kept up with r.g.r.a over the last couple o'months, but
> some very superficial skimming through has proved somewhat, er,
> disquieting. I'm not here for a few weeks and suddenly you're one of the
> most respected posters around and excel at challenge games? Wassup? I
> find that constant creaking and crackling in the Space-Time continuum
> truly unsettling.

I do not excel at challenge games, you crazy fool. Where'd you come up
with that? Silly, silly Helmut.

As for being one of the most respected posters, you could find plenty of
posts that will prove I am not, either from me or the people that hate
me. Start with this one.

>> Quickling queens! (Cackle.)
>
>
> Stop startling me like that.

Well, stop being so... startle-able.

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 4:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:

> I do not excel at challenge games, you crazy fool. Where'd you come up
> with that? Silly, silly Helmut.

Well, you managed to take a GE merchant fighting only with thrown coins
further than I ever took any of my gnomish merchants, me using every
dirty trick that came to my dull mind notwithstanding. That spells
exellence to me. It's a relative term, you see.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 5:00:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Helmut Hohberger wrote:
> Josh Singh wrote:
>
>> I do not excel at challenge games, you crazy fool. Where'd you come up
>> with that? Silly, silly Helmut.
>
>
> Well, you managed to take a GE merchant fighting only with thrown coins
> further than I ever took any of my gnomish merchants, me using every
> dirty trick that came to my dull mind notwithstanding. That spells
> exellence to me. It's a relative term, you see.

Well then, all things being relative, I think my gasket-blowing in the
midgame spells inexperience and naivete. If I'd ever have gotten a
merchant that far before, I might've known that coins were not
sufficient to get even halfway through the game. Oh well, now I know.

So, I did manage to take that grey elven merchant further than any of my
own previous merchants playing with ordinary tactics (humans, gnomes,
dwarves, drakelings), but I hit a wall. I won't be trying again soon.

Anyway, now that I've learned a few things, I'll say that, if you try
the "Fling the Bling" (TM) Challenge, you will need a very high DV so
that you can use Aggressive, Very Aggressive, or even Berserk Tactics. I
found those were the settings that allowed me to hurt fire beetles and
hill orc chieftans and suchlike. And then there's the midgame, where
opponent PV can just get stupid; I had to take down three freaking stone
golems, for example. The thought of DF is just frightening. I managed to
find some half-decent shields, but a couple tower crystal deals would
have been superb. As a ring merchant, I began actually hoping, deep
down, to come across a certain spoily ring that I could use to get those
shields. Well, maybe a couple rings, so I could get some 7LB as well.
Those would make it much easier to use Berserk Tactics.

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 9:24:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Josh Singh wrote:
> Helmut Hohberger wrote:
> > Zarin wrote:
> >
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > [snip]
> >
> >> I suspect it might be difficult to stay
> >> neutral in the later stages of the game (unless you kill an equal
> >> amount of lawfuls)...
> >
> >
> > One should think so; yet I've never had any problems here. Even
clearing
> > the Mana Temple *and* D50 does squat to your alignment. Either the
> > alignment bonus from killing is insignificant on higher levels, or
it is
> > insignificant for non-lawfuls, or it is insignificant altogether.
>
> Seconded. I don't play with the Law skill very often (i.e. never) but
I
> have played plenty of crowned neutrals, and none of them have had
> trouble so much as pushing N+ in the late game. Since most monsters
in
> the game are chaotic, I would imagine lawful boosts for slaying them,
if
> any, are restricted to greater undead, greater demons and big-tymer
> chaos beings, and you encounter plenty of those in the endgame
without
> suffering an alignment blast. Heck, there are plenty of balors on
D:50
> (and they're definitely among the greatest of demons given the
> experience they're worth), but when you get through them all, you'll
> still be N= (or whatever you started with, you know). Any boost is
> insignificant, at least for neutrals.
>
I play with the law skill a lot of the time (I always end up completing
both of the sheriff's quests on PCs that live for a long time), and I
can say that the lawful boost is significant in the mid game, at least.
I've had PCs dig up "great treasures" graves around level 20, get their
alignment kicked down to L for the digging, but easily brought back to
L+ by slaying the [foo] lich and its cohorts. Steel golems, grues,
dragons, and elementals have given lawful boosts, so it they aren't
limited to undead and demons alone, as far as I know.

All of these PCs were lawful, so perhaps the boost is greater for
lawful PCs?

-Pat Kelly
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 5:32:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Pat Kelly wrote:
> Josh Singh wrote:
>
>>Helmut Hohberger wrote:
>>
>>>Zarin wrote:
>>>
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>I suspect it might be difficult to stay
>>>>neutral in the later stages of the game (unless you kill an equal
>>>>amount of lawfuls)...
>>>
>>>
>>>One should think so; yet I've never had any problems here. Even
>
> clearing
>
>>>the Mana Temple *and* D50 does squat to your alignment. Either the
>>>alignment bonus from killing is insignificant on higher levels, or
>
> it is
>
>>>insignificant for non-lawfuls, or it is insignificant altogether.
>>
>>Seconded. I don't play with the Law skill very often (i.e. never) but
>
> I
>
>>have played plenty of crowned neutrals, and none of them have had
>>trouble so much as pushing N+ in the late game. Since most monsters
>
> in
>
>>the game are chaotic, I would imagine lawful boosts for slaying them,
>
> if
>
>>any, are restricted to greater undead, greater demons and big-tymer
>>chaos beings, and you encounter plenty of those in the endgame
>
> without
>
>>suffering an alignment blast. Heck, there are plenty of balors on
>
> D:50
>
>>(and they're definitely among the greatest of demons given the
>>experience they're worth), but when you get through them all, you'll
>>still be N= (or whatever you started with, you know). Any boost is
>>insignificant, at least for neutrals.
>>
>
> I play with the law skill a lot of the time (I always end up completing
> both of the sheriff's quests on PCs that live for a long time), and I
> can say that the lawful boost is significant in the mid game, at least.
> I've had PCs dig up "great treasures" graves around level 20, get their
> alignment kicked down to L for the digging, but easily brought back to
> L+ by slaying the [foo] lich and its cohorts. Steel golems, grues,
> dragons, and elementals have given lawful boosts, so it they aren't
> limited to undead and demons alone, as far as I know.
>
> All of these PCs were lawful, so perhaps the boost is greater for
> lawful PCs?

I was playing an LN PC just below Dwarftown recently. She ran into a
blink dog in a tension room and couldn't get away without dipping to NL.
(It was my coin-chucking merchant FWIW.) After getting back to the
temple and saccing 10 gold, she immediately converted to L. She was a
born Book.

So it seems to me that the whole lawful alignment thing is a tad broken.
It's already been discovered that the alignment aspect of Unicorn does
the opposite of what it's supposed to; perhaps there's trouble with the
other star signs as well. Or perhaps it's lawful alignment more
generally. (I don't have the time or will to test this right now.)

--
Curry Bucket's Controversial Web Presence:
The Birthplace of Teenage Angst
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jsingh3/
or http://www.currybucket.cjb.net/
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 10:58:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

>Actually, after my failed "Fling the Bling" thing, I'm taking a break
>from ADOM myself so I can fiddle around with Iter Vehemens Ad Necem.
>It's a novel game, but sometimes getting leprosy all the time isn't so

>great.

I just checked this out on your reccomendation, It is pretty fun. I
cant get anywhere though. Still I like the Traditional Rougelike
elements with Whimsical overtones.
!