Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)
With the help of AdomBot.
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There are 13 levels of piety corresponding to the following points
values (the values are the lowest piety you can be within each group -
ie piety 30000 is 'extremely close', piety -50 is 'unconcerned'). Also
listed are the (abreviated) messages received after an action that
takes piety to that level and the punishments.
+30000 Extremely close
+15000 Very close
+ 8000 Spiritually invincible
+ 3000 Inner peace
+ 1000 Very pleased
+ 50 Pleased
- 50 Unconcerned
- 1000 Nuisance / ground rumbles
- 3000 Nuisance / [deity] grumbling
- 8000 Impudence (inventory items cursed OR doomed)
-15000 Ye art a pest (equipped items destroyed OR doomed)
-20000 I punish you (bolt)
-20001 pestered me too long (creatures summoned)
The last level is -20001 or below. Maximum piety is 100 million and
there ought to be a similar minimum but at the moment we have the
overflow bug instead (at about -2 billion). This list of levels is
similar to the one in the GB but there is no "Nothing else happens" and
note that the two grumblings are distinct levels and both come with the
"nuisance" message, so are easy to confuse.
In addition to the penalties above, other levels have some special
features. 'Extremely close' is required for crowning, and removal of
doomed status even though neither cost as much as 30000 piety. 'Very
close' is required to recieve a pickaxe in certain locations, and
removal of bad fate / cursed even though neither cost 15000. 'Pleased'
is required for a prayer to uncurse a piece of equipment (in this case
the cost is initially 1000, the same as the piety minimum). However
most prayers seem to be answered if you have at least 'Pleased' even if
their cost exceeds 50 piety. It's quite possible to have a prayer
answered and the cost pulls you down to low enough to recieve a
warning, or penalty, but there are some safeguards against this
happening and it's unlikely unless you have been doing a lot of
praying. Here's a funny example:
You pray to Istaria.
Your cursed broadsword (+1, 1d7+3) glows in a silvery light.
You suddenly hear a thundering voice.
"*I* hereby punish thee, puny mortal!"
Your equipment turns to dust.
The main safeguard is that you cannot drop more than 3 levels of piety
in answering a prayer if you start off at least "Inner peace". Instead
you will be at the bottom of the level three below where you started
from. For example if you start at 3000 piety and your prayer costs
15000 piety you will end up at -50 piety. That applies to unanswered
prayers too - which also cost piety. I don't know but I don't think it
applies to non-prayer piety penalties but the only one big enough to
matter would be destroying an altar I think...
A second safeguard is that if your prayer is NOT answered and you had
at least "Unconcerned" then, if you drop to one of the low levels, you
will NOT receive a penalty due to low piety (or a warning message)
until the next time you pray.
Well let's review some prices.
In general the cost of a prayer or unanswered prayer is the base cost
multiplied by a factor that increases incredibly fast according to how
many OF THAT KIND OF PRAYER (or how many unanswered prayers) you have
had with that character. The count increases even if you switch
deities. The multiplier is 'triangular n' or n(n+1)/2.
For example the first unanswered prayer costs 20 piety. The second
will cost 60, then 120, 200, 300, 420 and so on. The formula for the
total piety cost of n prayers of the same kind is n(n+1)(2n+1)/6
multiplied by the base cost.
Base costs.
I have probably missed a bunch (especially those that remove nasty
statuses).
I'll need to add more later.
pre/post-crowning 50000
removal of doom 10000
removal of bad fate 3000
prevent breeding 2500
granting of pickaxe 2000
uncurse 1 equiped item 1000
food 500(*)
full heal 150
remove darkness 120
full mana 80
nothing happens 20
(*) The BASE cost of divine mana is between 450 and about 520 depending
upon how starved you are. The cost of 450 is if you have just become
hungry, the cost of 500 is for when you are just about to start
reducing ability levels. Remember to multiply by the triangular n
penalty.
I haven't looked into what the order of precedence is in cases where
there are two or more possible prayer results. Perhaps folks can try
to order those? Some of these prayer results have conditions.
Preventing breeding requires a minimum number of breeders on the level
(not sure what, between 14 and 40). Healing requires you have less
than 75% of health. Presumably a similar limit is on full mana and in
addition it looks like you must know at least one spell. You have to
be at least hungry to get divine mana. In general there is no luck to
this. If you don't get prayer answered the first time don't bother
praying again (as some have done over the pickaxe) until you can boost
piety - unless you want to lose piety to "unanswered prayer".
After all that there is a final deduction to the cost of 50% if you are
a champion and paladins seem to get prayer at 2/3rds cost (not priests
though), or 1/3rd if crowned. Those do NOT apply to the cost of
pre-post crownings.
In fact the crownings need their own discussion.
Crowning itself requires "Extremely close" (30000 piety) and costs
40000 piety but does not reduce you to below 20000 piety. So
effectively the cost is 10000. Very odd behaviour. In practise then
the crowning costs only 10000. Pre or post crownings cost the same.
Although I have listed their base cost as 50000 (meaning that the first
one costs 50000, 2nd costs 150000, then 300000 etc) there are a couple
of oddities. Sometimes (usually) there is a special pre/post crowning
that costs only 10000 piety. The rest use the formula above but all
cost an extra 10000 more than the formula would suggest. However it
looks like you may need to have 20001 piety more than the cost of the
pre/post crowning to get it. There is some doubt here because the GB
suggests that 2 postcrownings can be had at merely "Very close" level
(less than 30000 piety). Possibly a version difference --- all these
notes apply to version 1.1.1
min piety cost
30000 10000 crowning
30001 10000 1st post-crowning (usually)
80001 60000 2nd post-crowning
180001 160000 3rd post-crowning
330001 310000 4th post-crowning
530001 510000 5th post-crowning
780001 760000 6th post-crowning
1080001 1060000 7th post-crowning
Miscellaneous piety changes
Start game with 200 piety
Attempt to turn undead -200 piety
Destroy altar -10000 piety (and alignment shift)
Kick altar -100 piety
Destroy others altar +1000 if opposite alignemnt, +100 if it was
neutral
Use of holy symbol +0.5 (yes, a half point!)
Convert using altar piety set to -850 for new deity
Gain a level +10xlevel in piety for aligned deity
Also there is a 1% loss of piety (if piety is above 0) every 220
actions.
For the usual ways of altering piety (ie prayer and sacrificing) the
two rival deities gain or lose 1/30th the amount of piety (rounded
down) that the aligned deity loses or gains. That doesn't apply to
crownings or to any of the miscellaneous changes above.
I haven't looked much at the piety gains from sacrificing but
sacrificing gold coin gives about 0.32 piety per gold coin, except for
Dwarves who get about 0.48 piety (because their deities likes cash
especially). Or roughly triple (double) the amount of piety needed and
there's your gold cost. Compare with the current GB figures and it
comes out about right. Tentatively it looks like live sacrifices
score 448 piety and food scores 120. This sort of stuff is very easy
to read of AdomBot (except you can't just add items with it) and I
haven't got very far but I wasn't impressed by anything else's score
(in terms of - do you get more piety selling the item and sacrificing
the gold - with food I'd say "no", with the rest maybe yes).
With the help of AdomBot.
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There are 13 levels of piety corresponding to the following points
values (the values are the lowest piety you can be within each group -
ie piety 30000 is 'extremely close', piety -50 is 'unconcerned'). Also
listed are the (abreviated) messages received after an action that
takes piety to that level and the punishments.
+30000 Extremely close
+15000 Very close
+ 8000 Spiritually invincible
+ 3000 Inner peace
+ 1000 Very pleased
+ 50 Pleased
- 50 Unconcerned
- 1000 Nuisance / ground rumbles
- 3000 Nuisance / [deity] grumbling
- 8000 Impudence (inventory items cursed OR doomed)
-15000 Ye art a pest (equipped items destroyed OR doomed)
-20000 I punish you (bolt)
-20001 pestered me too long (creatures summoned)
The last level is -20001 or below. Maximum piety is 100 million and
there ought to be a similar minimum but at the moment we have the
overflow bug instead (at about -2 billion). This list of levels is
similar to the one in the GB but there is no "Nothing else happens" and
note that the two grumblings are distinct levels and both come with the
"nuisance" message, so are easy to confuse.
In addition to the penalties above, other levels have some special
features. 'Extremely close' is required for crowning, and removal of
doomed status even though neither cost as much as 30000 piety. 'Very
close' is required to recieve a pickaxe in certain locations, and
removal of bad fate / cursed even though neither cost 15000. 'Pleased'
is required for a prayer to uncurse a piece of equipment (in this case
the cost is initially 1000, the same as the piety minimum). However
most prayers seem to be answered if you have at least 'Pleased' even if
their cost exceeds 50 piety. It's quite possible to have a prayer
answered and the cost pulls you down to low enough to recieve a
warning, or penalty, but there are some safeguards against this
happening and it's unlikely unless you have been doing a lot of
praying. Here's a funny example:
You pray to Istaria.
Your cursed broadsword (+1, 1d7+3) glows in a silvery light.
You suddenly hear a thundering voice.
"*I* hereby punish thee, puny mortal!"
Your equipment turns to dust.
The main safeguard is that you cannot drop more than 3 levels of piety
in answering a prayer if you start off at least "Inner peace". Instead
you will be at the bottom of the level three below where you started
from. For example if you start at 3000 piety and your prayer costs
15000 piety you will end up at -50 piety. That applies to unanswered
prayers too - which also cost piety. I don't know but I don't think it
applies to non-prayer piety penalties but the only one big enough to
matter would be destroying an altar I think...
A second safeguard is that if your prayer is NOT answered and you had
at least "Unconcerned" then, if you drop to one of the low levels, you
will NOT receive a penalty due to low piety (or a warning message)
until the next time you pray.
Well let's review some prices.
In general the cost of a prayer or unanswered prayer is the base cost
multiplied by a factor that increases incredibly fast according to how
many OF THAT KIND OF PRAYER (or how many unanswered prayers) you have
had with that character. The count increases even if you switch
deities. The multiplier is 'triangular n' or n(n+1)/2.
For example the first unanswered prayer costs 20 piety. The second
will cost 60, then 120, 200, 300, 420 and so on. The formula for the
total piety cost of n prayers of the same kind is n(n+1)(2n+1)/6
multiplied by the base cost.
Base costs.
I have probably missed a bunch (especially those that remove nasty
statuses).
I'll need to add more later.
pre/post-crowning 50000
removal of doom 10000
removal of bad fate 3000
prevent breeding 2500
granting of pickaxe 2000
uncurse 1 equiped item 1000
food 500(*)
full heal 150
remove darkness 120
full mana 80
nothing happens 20
(*) The BASE cost of divine mana is between 450 and about 520 depending
upon how starved you are. The cost of 450 is if you have just become
hungry, the cost of 500 is for when you are just about to start
reducing ability levels. Remember to multiply by the triangular n
penalty.
I haven't looked into what the order of precedence is in cases where
there are two or more possible prayer results. Perhaps folks can try
to order those? Some of these prayer results have conditions.
Preventing breeding requires a minimum number of breeders on the level
(not sure what, between 14 and 40). Healing requires you have less
than 75% of health. Presumably a similar limit is on full mana and in
addition it looks like you must know at least one spell. You have to
be at least hungry to get divine mana. In general there is no luck to
this. If you don't get prayer answered the first time don't bother
praying again (as some have done over the pickaxe) until you can boost
piety - unless you want to lose piety to "unanswered prayer".
After all that there is a final deduction to the cost of 50% if you are
a champion and paladins seem to get prayer at 2/3rds cost (not priests
though), or 1/3rd if crowned. Those do NOT apply to the cost of
pre-post crownings.
In fact the crownings need their own discussion.
Crowning itself requires "Extremely close" (30000 piety) and costs
40000 piety but does not reduce you to below 20000 piety. So
effectively the cost is 10000. Very odd behaviour. In practise then
the crowning costs only 10000. Pre or post crownings cost the same.
Although I have listed their base cost as 50000 (meaning that the first
one costs 50000, 2nd costs 150000, then 300000 etc) there are a couple
of oddities. Sometimes (usually) there is a special pre/post crowning
that costs only 10000 piety. The rest use the formula above but all
cost an extra 10000 more than the formula would suggest. However it
looks like you may need to have 20001 piety more than the cost of the
pre/post crowning to get it. There is some doubt here because the GB
suggests that 2 postcrownings can be had at merely "Very close" level
(less than 30000 piety). Possibly a version difference --- all these
notes apply to version 1.1.1
min piety cost
30000 10000 crowning
30001 10000 1st post-crowning (usually)
80001 60000 2nd post-crowning
180001 160000 3rd post-crowning
330001 310000 4th post-crowning
530001 510000 5th post-crowning
780001 760000 6th post-crowning
1080001 1060000 7th post-crowning
Miscellaneous piety changes
Start game with 200 piety
Attempt to turn undead -200 piety
Destroy altar -10000 piety (and alignment shift)
Kick altar -100 piety
Destroy others altar +1000 if opposite alignemnt, +100 if it was
neutral
Use of holy symbol +0.5 (yes, a half point!)
Convert using altar piety set to -850 for new deity
Gain a level +10xlevel in piety for aligned deity
Also there is a 1% loss of piety (if piety is above 0) every 220
actions.
For the usual ways of altering piety (ie prayer and sacrificing) the
two rival deities gain or lose 1/30th the amount of piety (rounded
down) that the aligned deity loses or gains. That doesn't apply to
crownings or to any of the miscellaneous changes above.
I haven't looked much at the piety gains from sacrificing but
sacrificing gold coin gives about 0.32 piety per gold coin, except for
Dwarves who get about 0.48 piety (because their deities likes cash
especially). Or roughly triple (double) the amount of piety needed and
there's your gold cost. Compare with the current GB figures and it
comes out about right. Tentatively it looks like live sacrifices
score 448 piety and food scores 120. This sort of stuff is very easy
to read of AdomBot (except you can't just add items with it) and I
haven't got very far but I wasn't impressed by anything else's score
(in terms of - do you get more piety selling the item and sacrificing
the gold - with food I'd say "no", with the rest maybe yes).
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