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New 'impossible' Challenge game

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Anonymous
June 27, 2005 6:37:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Not spoily!
I've been thinking about the Eternium Man challenge and the Brimstone
Man challenge (which is the one where you go directly to the tower at
level one, without any other encounters, kill the ACW and exit).
Here's another challenge game in the same sort of style: haven't got a
name for it yet. The concept is easy enough. Win the game as normal
with a single constraint: you cannot ever eat anything. Or would it be
more fun to say, "Can't eat anything but apples" which is functionally
pretty much the same. Anyone want to suggest a name?

Starving Man?
Johny Appleseed?

By the way. Trivia question here. What class/race combination starts
the game with a guaranteed apple?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:08:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

can you pray for food or drink potions or read scrolls for sation
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:20:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The Starving Man challenge

beachteen wrote:
> can you pray for food or drink potions or read scrolls for sation

Yes, since they don't involve 'e'ating food.
Might be an idea to start the challenge on New Year's Eve.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 7:12:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:

> The Starving Man challenge
>
> beachteen wrote:
>
>>can you pray for food or drink potions or read scrolls for sation
>
>
> Yes, since they don't involve 'e'ating food.
> Might be an idea to start the challenge on New Year's Eve.
>

Hmm. Certainly an interesting challenge. Whether it's possible without
extreme tactics (read: Steel man and such) is a matter of question.

What about 'a'pplying the Survival skill? Technically, it is eating, but
not using the 'e'at command. ;-)

Some spoily notes ahead...

S
O

L
E
T
'
S

A
D
D

S
O
M
E

S
P
A
C
E

There.

The biggest problem would probably be to keep piety high enough in case
of a food emergency, or actually to get high enough piety in the early game.

So, you'd have the following ways of raising satiation level:
- Berzio potions
- Potions of (boost/potential) toughness
- Praying
- Scrolls of satiation
- Random potions
(- Survival?)

You prolly would need to play a monk, too. Some other restrictions is
the use of lots of artifacts, or invisibility-granting items. Nor could
you eat the corpses with nice effects such as fire resistance.

You'll prolly need an altar VERY early in the game, too (maybe the long
lost brother birth message would be nice).

Maybe I'll give it a shot someday. Might be useful to start a few
characters on July 2nd.. ;-)

-Tapsa
(TLD is reversed)
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 10:50:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> DavidByron wrote:
> >
> > The concept is easy enough. Win the game as normal
> > with a single constraint: you cannot ever eat anything.
>
> Are all the other ways of satiating yourself allowed?
> I can think of Survival, scrolls, potions, praying and wishes.


All fine. No eating involved there.

So long as you don't manage to eat anything it would even be ok to use
the 'e' command. Food that your character refuses to eat for example.
You could 'e' that. But no eating stuff that gives no nutritional
value. That would count as eating --- if you succeed in eating it. I
think of one of the herbs you know.



> > By the way. Trivia question here. What class/race combination starts
> > the game with a guaranteed apple?
>
> There's more than one; all beastfighters do. Did you think of a specific
> combination?

I was thinking especially of a human paladin. It seemed odd that food
was so specifically tied down like that. I mean --- is there any use
for an apple apart from just as a source of food? Does anyone like
being given one? Even so the archives have a thread discussing who
starts with an apple....

I was planning on making some notes on the various class/race starting
equipment.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 4:39:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> DavidByron wrote:
> > Malte Helmert wrote:
> >
> >>Are all the other ways of satiating yourself allowed?
> >>I can think of Survival, scrolls, potions, praying and wishes.
> >
> > All fine. No eating involved there.
>
> I don't think this would be anywhere near impossible then. Maybe I will
> give it a try some time.

To clarify again: if you begin to eat something, or try to eat
something but are stopped or interrupted that's ok. I think there are
a few places where this can happen in the game. The result in game
terms is that you don't gain satiation from such an attempt to eat.

Starving man seems a good name.

spoily
stuff
next
.....

> I guess it should be stated explicitly that abusing piety overflow is
> out of limits though -- severe bugs should never be exploited, but some
> people might find it tempting in this case.

If you only use the rivalry of the gods, and avoid the overflow bug,
you'd be limited to something of the order of 70 prayers - even if you
took the piety of the annoyed diety all the way down to -2 billion.
Piety costs really ramp FAST. You'd have to switch alignment of
course. That's not a big deal but 70 prayers is NOT going to be more
than emergencey backup plan.

I think some of the potions are very good for satiation but most are
pretty pathetic. Could do with adding potions to the list of satiation
values for food stuffs in the GB --- which I believe you researched
originally?
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 4:59:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:
>
> The concept is easy enough. Win the game as normal
> with a single constraint: you cannot ever eat anything.

Are all the other ways of satiating yourself allowed?
I can think of Survival, scrolls, potions, praying and wishes.

> By the way. Trivia question here. What class/race combination starts
> the game with a guaranteed apple?

There's more than one; all beastfighters do. Did you think of a specific
combination?

Malte
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 8:14:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>> DavidByron wrote:
>> >
>> > The concept is easy enough. Win the game as normal
>> > with a single constraint: you cannot ever eat anything.
>>
>> Are all the other ways of satiating yourself allowed?
>> I can think of Survival, scrolls, potions, praying and wishes.
>
>
> All fine. No eating involved there.
>
> So long as you don't manage to eat anything it would even be ok to use
> the 'e' command. Food that your character refuses to eat for example.
> You could 'e' that. But no eating stuff that gives no nutritional
> value. That would count as eating --- if you succeed in eating it. I
> think of one of the herbs you know.

What about things that make you vomit, like kobolds?

>
>
>
>> > By the way. Trivia question here. What class/race combination
>> > starts the game with a guaranteed apple?
>>
>> There's more than one; all beastfighters do. Did you think of a
>> specific combination?
>
> I was thinking especially of a human paladin. It seemed odd that food
> was so specifically tied down like that. I mean --- is there any use
> for an apple apart from just as a source of food?

Don't they restore some hp? I thought the message: "The apple tastes
refreshing." would mean this, I'm not sure though.

--
"It's not Camelot, but it's not Cleveland, either."
-- Kevin White, mayor of Boston

rgra bug list http://adombugs.100free.com/
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 8:51:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>>Are all the other ways of satiating yourself allowed?
>>I can think of Survival, scrolls, potions, praying and wishes.
>
> All fine. No eating involved there.

I don't think this would be anywhere near impossible then. Maybe I will
give it a try some time.

I guess it should be stated explicitly that abusing piety overflow is
out of limits though -- severe bugs should never be exploited, but some
people might find it tempting in this case.

Malte
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 2:22:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
> Starving man seems a good name.
>
> spoily
> stuff
> next
> ....

s
o
m
e

m
o
r
e

s
t
u
f
f

n
e
x
t

>>I guess it should be stated explicitly that abusing piety overflow is
>>out of limits though -- severe bugs should never be exploited, but some
>>people might find it tempting in this case.
>
> If you only use the rivalry of the gods, and avoid the overflow bug,
> you'd be limited to something of the order of 70 prayers - even if you
> took the piety of the annoyed diety all the way down to -2 billion.

Personally I wouldn't use that either; it seems quite abusive to me.

> Piety costs really ramp FAST. You'd have to switch alignment of
> course. That's not a big deal but 70 prayers is NOT going to be more
> than emergencey backup plan.

One prayer seems to be good for about 2000 turns of food for a regular
character, 4000 for a non-Troll Monk. So 25 prayers should be enough to
see a non-Troll Monk through the game if artifacts are used conservatively.

> I think some of the potions are very good for satiation but most are
> pretty pathetic. Could do with adding potions to the list of satiation
> values for food stuffs in the GB --- which I believe you researched
> originally?

Only the toughness-related ones (toughness, potential toughness, boost
toughness) are really worthwhile; maybe also berzio. I agree that this
is not a very reliable source, but with the Survival skill and ID
scumming, I guess it should be possible to complete this challenge
without praying at all.

Malte
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 8:42:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:

> Starving man seems a good name.

How about "Anorexic Man"? This seems more appropriate since he's
making a conscious decision not to eat anything, even if he has food
available and/or in his possession? :) 

Not to make light of a serious disease, of course, nor to imply that
it only applies to male PCs...

-- Jeff
-- aka The Eternal Newbie :) 

--------------------------------------------------------------
The conventional view serves to protect us from the
painful job of thinking. -- John Kenneth Galbraith
--------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 11:07:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

T. Harkila wrote:
> DavidByron wrote:
>
> > The Starving Man challenge
> >
> > beachteen wrote:
> >
> >>can you pray for food or drink potions or read scrolls for sation
> >
> >
> > Yes, since they don't involve 'e'ating food.
> > Might be an idea to start the challenge on New Year's Eve.
> >
>
> Hmm. Certainly an interesting challenge. Whether it's possible without
> extreme tactics (read: Steel man and such) is a matter of question.
>
> What about 'a'pplying the Survival skill? Technically, it is eating, but
> not using the 'e'at command. ;-)
>
> Some spoily notes ahead...
>
> S
> O
>
> L
> E
> T
> '
> S
>
> A
> D
> D
>
> S
> O
> M
> E
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> There.
>
> The biggest problem would probably be to keep piety high enough in case
> of a food emergency, or actually to get high enough piety in the early game.
>
> So, you'd have the following ways of raising satiation level:
> - Berzio potions
> - Potions of (boost/potential) toughness
> - Praying
> - Scrolls of satiation
> - Random potions
> (- Survival?)
>
> You prolly would need to play a monk, too. Some other restrictions is
> the use of lots of artifacts, or invisibility-granting items. Nor could
> you eat the corpses with nice effects such as fire resistance.
>
> You'll prolly need an altar VERY early in the game, too (maybe the long
> lost brother birth message would be nice).
>
<snip>

What about playing a paladin and using the holy symbol for piety? This
would at least help out the initials troubles of finding an altar...
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 5:02:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:

[no-food-but-apples challenge game]

> Starving man seems a good name.

It's a bit late in the game for me to be saying this, and I'm a bit
removed from the ADOM community of late, but what about, in keeping with
the chemical-compounds tradition of ADOM challenge game naming, Fructose
Man?

Erik
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 5:18:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

I failed miserably to keep a straight face when I read that
on 28 Jun 2005 06:50:37 -0700, DavidByron <davidbyron20@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>> Are all the other ways of satiating yourself allowed?
>> I can think of Survival, scrolls, potions, praying and wishes.
>
> All fine. No eating involved there.

I wouldn't say Survival doesn't involve eating. It doesn't involve
'e'ating, but it does involve eating. It would be more interesting, I
think, if Survival is banned, too.

Leon (aka Oliphaunt)

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