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Proposed investigation (YAGBU REQ?)

Last response: in Video Games
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Anonymous
June 29, 2005 12:58:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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Its clear to anyone who has played the game much that cursed items sell
for less than uncursed, which sell for less than blessed items.
It would be very interesting to see the guide book updated to include
all kinds of information on item cost.
This information would become extremely valuable to any character who
had not yet found an altar.

Some quick investigation shows that PV and DV modifiers change an items
value, as do ego modifiers. To hit/to damage variation does not, however.
After factoring out the various things which affect item value (trying
to be as non-spoily as possible) one could probably determine if any
specific item were cursed or not, along with its DV/PV and (in the case of
scrolls, potions, rings and wands) exactly which item it was.

Unfortunately, I don't have the motivation to do this investigation (I'm
still working towards my first victory; I haven't even seen the chaos
archmage in months!)
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 9:59:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

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> Its clear to anyone who has played the game much that cursed items sell
> for less than uncursed, which sell for less than blessed items.
> It would be very interesting to see the guide book updated to include
> all kinds of information on item cost.
> This information would become extremely valuable to any character who
> had not yet found an altar.

I think one problem would be how many other factors affect price,
namely the race of the seller/buyer , and physical stats. If you are
thinking of a Nethack-esqe guide whereby you could id an item or its
status by its price, I think it would be difficult at best in Adom.
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 10:45:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Shop prices

Batman? wrote:
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> > Its clear to anyone who has played the game much that cursed items sell
> > for less than uncursed, which sell for less than blessed items.
> > It would be very interesting to see the guide book updated to include
> > all kinds of information on item cost.
> > This information would become extremely valuable to any character who
> > had not yet found an altar.
>
> I think one problem would be how many other factors affect price,
> namely the race of the seller/buyer , and physical stats. If you are
> thinking of a Nethack-esqe guide whereby you could id an item or its
> status by its price, I think it would be difficult at best in Adom.

There's a table of how rac oif character vs race of shopkeeper effects
prices but I suspect there are other efffects too. Still you could get
rid of all of them by calibrating from the cost of an item in the shop
already. After that you'd only be dealing with that part of the cost
which is due to the nature of the item.

The data tables have a "value" listed for items which explains a lot of
the price. Multiply by the blessed/cursed status and there's a
modifier for having a magic prefix/suffix, being an artifact, other
stuff.
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 8:05:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:
> Shop prices
>
> Batman? wrote:
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>>>Its clear to anyone who has played the game much that cursed items sell
>>>for less than uncursed, which sell for less than blessed items.
>>>It would be very interesting to see the guide book updated to include
>>>all kinds of information on item cost.
>>> This information would become extremely valuable to any character who
>>>had not yet found an altar.
>>
>>I think one problem would be how many other factors affect price,
>>namely the race of the seller/buyer , and physical stats. If you are
>>thinking of a Nethack-esqe guide whereby you could id an item or its
>>status by its price, I think it would be difficult at best in Adom.
>
>
> There's a table of how rac oif character vs race of shopkeeper effects
> prices but I suspect there are other efffects too. Still you could get
> rid of all of them by calibrating from the cost of an item in the shop
> already. After that you'd only be dealing with that part of the cost
> which is due to the nature of the item.
>
> The data tables have a "value" listed for items which explains a lot of
> the price. Multiply by the blessed/cursed status and there's a
> modifier for having a magic prefix/suffix, being an artifact, other
> stuff.

Note that there's an arguably buggy behavior by which Appearance, at
least, stops improving selling price and starts *hurting* it instead,
and it gets even buggier than that in that, IIRC, this doesn't apply
when you're selling stacks of items, just single copies. Or maybe it's
vice-versa. I posted the results of my admittedly unsystematic testing
on this issue back when I was playing ADOM regularly, which means about
a year to a year and a half ago. Keywords would I guess be: Erik
appearance Adombot, potential other ones would be Laszlo charisma shop
price prices selling leggot's "high mountain village" hmv.

Erik
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 8:07:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

DavidByron wrote:
> Shop prices
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> There's a table of how rac oif character vs race of shopkeeper effects
> prices but I suspect there are other efffects too. Still you could get
> rid of all of them by calibrating from the cost of an item in the shop
> already. After that you'd only be dealing with that part of the cost
> which is due to the nature of the item.

Yes, that's the easiest way of using selling prices for pseudo-ID. If
you are more ambitious and want to gauge absolute costs, I can think of
the following factors influencing the price that are not related to
properties fo the item itself:

* shopkeeper race vs. PC race
* PC Appearance (for female PCs)
* PC Charisma (for male PCs)
* how often and how successfully the PC has haggled with the
shopkeeper
* how often the shop has restocked
* PC class powers (for merchants)
* talents (Silver Tongue, Natural Trader)

Malte
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 1:18:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

frobnoid wrote:
> v
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> Its clear to anyone who has played the game much that cursed items sell
> for less than uncursed, which sell for less than blessed items.
> It would be very interesting to see the guide book updated to include
> all kinds of information on item cost.
> This information would become extremely valuable to any character who
> had not yet found an altar.

I'm sure I've looked at all this before but I was thinking more about
trying to predict when you were down to the last read of your
spellbook.

> Unfortunately, I don't have the motivation to do this investigation (I'm
> still working towards my first victory; I haven't even seen the chaos
> archmage in months!)

Yeah most of the research I'm doing at the moment is Eternium
orientated (as ever). I had a quick look. The ratio of costs for
blessed/normal/cursed seems to be 9:6:4. However at some point the
cost is rounded to an integer before being multiplied by the number
which represents all the shopkeeper/character interation stuff (and
then rounded to an integer again). Low cost items tend to have
different ratios, especially for cursed items in small numbers, because
of this early rounding step. Some cheaper items looked like the cursed
cost multiplier would be 3, but this may have been the rounding effect.
it's the sort of thing where several eyes would be best before drawing
too many hard conclusions.

I agree that on armor the to hit bonuses didn't seem to matter. Armor
bonuses tended to give -50%,0,+50% or +100% bonuses according to how
much better or worse than average the sum of the PV and DV bonuses
were. Artifacts looked like they had a x4 multiplier.

Spellbooks are a bit odd because they can cover any value in a large
range according to what the seed value they have for how many more
readings you have left. There seemed to be a slight price difference
between cheap spells and expensive ones but the only two I could see
with very distinctive cost was Remove Curse (about x10) and Wish (about
x100). Odd that.

It's probably about time this part of the game was solved once and for
all.
!