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Suggestions for Undead Encounter?

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Anonymous
August 5, 2004 10:31:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with the
average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief, cleric
and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear the
group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest a
type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies and
vampires/mummies/liches?

More about : suggestions undead encounter

Anonymous
August 5, 2004 10:49:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Ray Reynolds" <reymonrey@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:abWdnWxGb4MEq4_cRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with
the
> average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief, cleric
> and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear the
> group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest a
> type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies and
> vampires/mummies/liches?

Well, wights, wraiths and shadows all spring to mind. Nice selection of
these are immune to ordinary weapons (if my memory serves me well), which'd
make them all the more annoying to a physical-combat orientated party.
Either that or just beef up the stat's and go for ogre skeletons/zombies, or
similarly enlarged (and thus harder) variants,

Ncik.
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 4:50:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Nick Reed" <ncik@another.com> wrote in message
news:8f7e7$41127331$d925e721$12136@nf1.news-service-com...
> "Ray Reynolds" <reymonrey@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:abWdnWxGb4MEq4_cRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> > Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with
> the
> > average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief,
cleric
> > and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear
the
> > group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest
a
> > type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies
and
> > vampires/mummies/liches?
>
> Well, wights, wraiths and shadows all spring to mind. Nice selection of
> these are immune to ordinary weapons (if my memory serves me well),
which'd
> make them all the more annoying to a physical-combat orientated party.
> Either that or just beef up the stat's and go for ogre skeletons/zombies,
or
> similarly enlarged (and thus harder) variants,

A bit outside of this are Shadows - in a dark room they can be a real
challenge. I like to pair up a necromancer with lesser undeads to make
things more challenging.

Frank
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 11:21:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

How about you just take a 'regular' monster or caracter be enchanted with
some magic that makes them undead? Ok, it is cheesy, but saves a lot of
work.

In my bag of holding I still have a periapt of foul rotting, interested?
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 11:21:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"NeaZyneave" <schrijfmemaar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:274b8c8b7ec524aa6ead9a4bfcb2ec33@localhost.talkaboutgaming.com...
> How about you just take a 'regular' monster or caracter be enchanted with
> some magic that makes them undead? Ok, it is cheesy, but saves a lot of
> work.
>
> In my bag of holding I still have a periapt of foul rotting, interested?
>

I think I'll pass on that one NeaZyneave, but thanks for the offer. ;-)

Thanks for the suggestions, I was just drawing a blank and couldn't think.
Actually I want to introduce a series of undead creatures throughout the
entire campaign that scale in power with the PCs. Untilmately (if they make
it that far), they'll have to confront a Titian-turned-lich.
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 2:18:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

sounds a bit the the 'Kreen' I need to kill in my game. He is such a ^%$$%
strong guy, I fear him.

What kind of setting do you play in, maybe that will help me and other
people to come up with ideas.

btw; I did find a good use of sourvereign glue... I glued myself to a
ancient red dragon that I had to kill. It helped!
Anonymous
August 15, 2004 11:18:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Well that was helpfull ;) 

Did you consider the fact that suggestions we offer here could also be
read by your group?
Anonymous
August 15, 2004 12:06:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

> Did you consider the fact that suggestions we offer here could also be
> read by your group?

Yes I have, that's one reason I am being so evassive. ;-)
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 7:40:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

In article <abWdnWxGb4MEq4_cRVn-iA@comcast.com>, reymonrey@comcast.net wrote:

>Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with the
>average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief, cleric
>and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear the
>group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest a
>type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies and
>vampires/mummies/liches?

What's wrong with ghouls, ghasts, and shadows?

--
======================================================================
ISLAM: Winning the hearts and minds of the world, one bomb at a time.
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 9:32:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Ghouls are always good for a laugh.

Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
undead will be a problem to DM

i.e. they will either get blasted by tuning or they will need to be so
strong that they could be a serious threat to total party destruction
if the cleric fails a turn roll.

still, it makes for tense encounters..

I'm having current fun in a campaign playing a non combat, but high CHA
Priest of Pelor.. with the sun domain, and the feats extra turning and
greater turning I was blasting the ghouls drom 2nd lev! When I get the
Radiant Servant PrC things should be even more undead-blasting-tastic
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 1:37:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
undead will be a problem to DM "

"Not if they come in waves.. "

Yes. This is one of the easiest ways to accomplish the goal of widdling
down party resources and forcing the players to think about
conservation.

The original question also comes with another easy answer... if you
want to surprise your party, throw some skeletons at them that have a
few levels of fighter... or monk! Monk skeletons are a nice little
shock to the system (literally and figuratively) for any party.

The ability to apply the skeleton template to any race and then apply
some class levels on top of that is something you should not pass up.
There are endless combinations and flavors of encounter you can
generate this way. Mix it up a bit by adding in other templates... what
about a skeleton that's literally "from hell"? Just add the fiendish
template on top of the skeleton template and a few levels of fighter or
barbarian for a nice "undead footsoldier of the damned".

If you don't use the flexibility of the 3.5 system, you're just playing
a slightly more complicated 2nd edition. 3.5 is all about creating your
OWN encounters and customizing everything about them to the flavor of
your campaign.
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 5:37:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

J.O. Aho wrote:

> If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from

> turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it
have
> been Thay?

There's also simply the Turn Resistance feat.

> Throw in a couple of zombies that has it cast on, then the group
would have to
> use their arm strength to solve the problem instead of relaiing on
that the
> priest earns 200xp and the rest of the group gets none.

Ah... what? Is this some special exception rule I've never heard of
(ok, I'm an old 1e hack, so I'll admit I could have missed it)? This
sounds really wrong. If the fighter takes out an opponent on his own,
you don't give the XP to just the one player. It is assumed that each
player brings their own strengths to the combat, and while the cleric
might turn some undead in this combat, the wizard might fireball the
next group down before they have a chance to close, and a lucky crit
from the ranger's magic bow might take out the next creature in short
order.

Experience should be evenly distributed (not counting level differences
and XP penalties for multiclass) unless the party is physically
seperated for an encounter.
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 7:46:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Murf" wrote
>
> Ghouls are always good for a laugh.
>
> Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
> undead will be a problem to DM

Not if they come in waves..



John
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 10:33:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

<AaronJSherman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111430278.095907.19110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The original question also comes with another easy answer... if you
> want to surprise your party, throw some skeletons at them that have a
> few levels of fighter... or monk! Monk skeletons are a nice little
> shock to the system (literally and figuratively) for any party.

Hehe, I was already planning to do this with our party in a somewhat
different manner. You see, we play 2E, where humanoids have fairly
predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of the forest
and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you all!
MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked the
party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed, dontchaknowit).

I'm going to do basically the same thing again, except this time, it will be
a lone kobold who jumps out in front of them, and he's actually part of a
kobold adventuring party of sorts(ie higher levels of kobolds), with his
friends waiting in the wings. He'll do the "gimme yer gold" bit, and they
will laugh and probably just tell the thing to bugger off before they swat
it, at which point the kobolds will attack from an ambush position. They'll
just assume they can mow through them, so they'll do attack splitting and
stuff like that, but they won't realize until it's too late that this is
basically an NPC party like the PC's themselves.

That skeleton idea is good too, I like it. I think I'm going to implement
it at a "long abandoned monk cloister" setting. A bunch of long dead monk
skeletons of varying levels, damn, that would be a tough fight, even without
their special abilities!

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 10:51:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Murf wrote:
> Ghouls are always good for a laugh.
>
> Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
> undead will be a problem to DM

If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from
turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it have
been Thay?

Throw in a couple of zombies that has it cast on, then the group would have to
use their arm strength to solve the problem instead of relaiing on that the
priest earns 200xp and the rest of the group gets none.


//Aho
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 3:06:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

ajs@ajs.com wrote:
> J.O. Aho wrote:

>>If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from
>>turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it
>> have been Thay?
> There's also simply the Turn Resistance feat.

No feats in AD&D.


>>Throw in a couple of zombies that has it cast on, then the group
>>would have to
>>use their arm strength to solve the problem instead of relaiing on
>>that the
>>priest earns 200xp and the rest of the group gets none.
>
> Ah... what? Is this some special exception rule I've never heard of
> (ok, I'm an old 1e hack, so I'll admit I could have missed it)? This
> sounds really wrong. If the fighter takes out an opponent on his own,
> you don't give the XP to just the one player.

At least I do class that creatures that are easilly turned, are classed as
creatures that don't present a real threat, with other words 0XP for the whole
group. The priest will still get XP forusing a granted power, which is only
100XP (just messed it up with rouges who get the 200XP).


//Aho
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 3:28:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:06:56 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> scribed
into the ether:

>ajs@ajs.com wrote:
>> J.O. Aho wrote:
>
>>>If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from
>>>turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it
>>> have been Thay?
>> There's also simply the Turn Resistance feat.
>
>No feats in AD&D.

It's not a feat, but there are plenty of undead that are classified as
more-difficult-to-turn than their HD would indicate. Just bump them up a
rank on the turn chart.
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 5:43:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:33:41 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Hehe, I was already planning to do this with our party in a somewhat
> different manner. You see, we play 2E, where humanoids have fairly
> predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of the forest
> and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you all!
> MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked the
> party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed, dontchaknowit).

Would a human have done that? If not, why would a kobold? They have
the same intelligence as humans in A/D&D.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 5:43:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:ng1v31ppgbpi1s0i48b9r39dmcbun55eu1@4ax.com...
> > predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of the
forest
> > and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you all!
> > MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked the
> > party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed, dontchaknowit).
>
> Would a human have done that? If not, why would a kobold? They have
> the same intelligence as humans in A/D&D.

The encounter was more for a humorous interlude, rather than for any kind of
reality. It was amusing to have the PCs get confronted by a lone kobold,
demanding their money.

It was a throwaway encounter for levity, nothing more. Perhaps it would
have been more accurate to say "THIS kobold wasn't the brightest spark".

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 5:52:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

AaronJSherman@gmail.com wrote:
> "Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent
CHA,
> undead will be a problem to DM "
>
> "Not if they come in waves.. "
>
> Yes. This is one of the easiest ways to accomplish the goal of
widdling
> down party resources and forcing the players to think about
> conservation.
>
> The original question also comes with another easy answer... if you
> want to surprise your party, throw some skeletons at them that have a
> few levels of fighter... or monk! Monk skeletons are a nice little
> shock to the system (literally and figuratively) for any party.
>
> The ability to apply the skeleton template to any race and then apply
> some class levels on top of that is something you should not pass up.
> There are endless combinations and flavors of encounter you can
> generate this way. Mix it up a bit by adding in other templates...
what
> about a skeleton that's literally "from hell"? Just add the fiendish
> template on top of the skeleton template and a few levels of fighter
or
> barbarian for a nice "undead footsoldier of the damned".
>

If the person who solicited advice hasn't checked it out, they might
want to look at Libris Mortis at their local library from interloan. I
own it and found it to be a pretty damn good book for idea mining. And
it throws some pretty unconventional monsters and spells from
necromancy into the mix. I'm seriously considering running a
necromancer with the necrotic cyst spells. They're simply vile and
disgusting.

> If you don't use the flexibility of the 3.5 system, you're just
playing
> a slightly more complicated 2nd edition. 3.5 is all about creating
your
> OWN encounters and customizing everything about them to the flavor of
> your campaign.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 6:18:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:33:41 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
> <autockr@comcast.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
> > Hehe, I was already planning to do this with our party in a
somewhat
> > different manner. You see, we play 2E, where humanoids have fairly
> > predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of
the forest
> > and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you
all!
> > MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked
the
> > party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed,
dontchaknowit).
>
> Would a human have done that? If not, why would a kobold? They have
> the same intelligence as humans in A/D&D.
>

Maybe his kobold was retarded according to kobold standards. I kinda
like his idea, but maybe he should have more than a single one waiting
in the wings to make it more believable. Kobold does it, attacks, and
his weak allies join in thinking numbers are on their side and make the
last mistake they'll ever make. I've had a couple weak bandit gangs
(level 1 warriors with level 2 fighter captain/level 1 fighter aide de
camp) attack mid level parties near 8-11 in the wilderness because I
would think it sometimes would happen. Not to mention that sometimes
throwing these easy encounters at them shows real character growth in
the world at large because at 1-2 level they know they'd be fighting
for their lives whereas level dependant DR encounters only would make
characters wonder what exactly is the point of leveling up if everyone
is doing so at the same rate they are. Needless to say, the bandits
posed no threat and the party quickly dispatched them. Using that
experience, transfer it to another similar situation but use the
uber-badass kobolds to give them a shock.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 6:45:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

J.O. Aho wrote:
> Rump Ranger wrote:
>
> > But since you're an old 1E hack, maybe you'd appreciate this
reference.
> > The DM could use the most *lame* creature type ever made:
> > psuedo-undead. Gygax had to be high or worn out when he made that
one
> > up.
>
> As I never played 1E (only old D&D and AD&D2), so could you shortly
descibe
> thise psuedo-undead, could be fun to scare the PCs with something
that don't
> work as thought.
>

My old Monster Manual II from the 1E days is packed away somewhere.
After I got fed up with 2E, I jetisoned pretty much all 1E/2E rules and
came back when 3E came out. So my memory is not perfect on exact
stats, but psuedo-undead are in fact basically living humanoids who
*appear* as undead in all respects but aren't. The only thing which
makes them special is that adventurers will fear they are the real
deal. Looking at ENWorld, it looks like they converted it to 3E:

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/template/pseudo-und...

All that said, what makes this lame concept so *totally stupid* is that
they're actually weaker than the undead they mimic and the characters
will automatically assume it's the real deal and whoomp 'em. Even
attempting to turn and fail might convince them to use martial/magical
might instead. It is possible the characters see a "psuedo-vampire" or
ghost and run, but then again in 3E, vampires and ghosts can start
appearing at pretty low levels since they're templates.

> I have used a quite cool "undead" in an adventure for low level PCs,
it's from
> a Dragon magazine (don't recal the number). The PCs meets a skeleton
that the
> priest can't turn (even if the preist should be able), the funny
thing is that
> there is a wizard who uses unseen servants to move a skeleton, as if
it was a
> undead. Add a few rouges and/or fighters to that and you can lay an
ambush.
>

Yes, that is indeed a pretty slick idea. If your players don't know
about it, they won't see it coming unless they detected magic on it or
had a wizard doing recon from above or some other divination prepared,
but in 3E some players might assume it's an advanced or templated one.
In 3E, the DM can do some truly diabolical things without going all ad
hoc.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 8:33:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> "Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1111706320.689982.93890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > Maybe his kobold was retarded according to kobold standards. I
kinda
> > like his idea, but maybe he should have more than a single one
waiting
> > in the wings to make it more believable.
>
> The whole idea was to place something utterly defeatable in the path
of the
> PC's who was utterly convinced of his own invincability. The humor
is in
> the irony, guys, sheesh.
>

Dude, I got it. You got a chuckle out of me when I read it and I was
responding more to Rupert. The idea of a 1d4 hp kobold assuming he's
able take on a party of high level adventurers is actually funny
because it's *absurd* rather than ironic.

> In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
archers
> and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing
as last
> time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT
A
> TICK!!
>

If they're mature enough and don't masterbate on their character
sheets, chances are they'll enjoy it.

> > is doing so at the same rate they are. Needless to say, the
bandits
> > posed no threat and the party quickly dispatched them. Using that
> > experience, transfer it to another similar situation but use the
> > uber-badass kobolds to give them a shock.
>
> Yep, precisely. A band of truly effective kobolds would DEFINITELY
be a
> shocker for the party.
>
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 10:17:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111706320.689982.93890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe his kobold was retarded according to kobold standards. I kinda
> like his idea, but maybe he should have more than a single one waiting
> in the wings to make it more believable.

The whole idea was to place something utterly defeatable in the path of the
PC's who was utterly convinced of his own invincability. The humor is in
the irony, guys, sheesh.

In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of archers
and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as last
time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
TICK!!

> is doing so at the same rate they are. Needless to say, the bandits
> posed no threat and the party quickly dispatched them. Using that
> experience, transfer it to another similar situation but use the
> uber-badass kobolds to give them a shock.

Yep, precisely. A band of truly effective kobolds would DEFINITELY be a
shocker for the party.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 3:15:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Rump Ranger wrote:

> But since you're an old 1E hack, maybe you'd appreciate this reference.
> The DM could use the most *lame* creature type ever made:
> psuedo-undead. Gygax had to be high or worn out when he made that one
> up.

As I never played 1E (only old D&D and AD&D2), so could you shortly descibe
thise psuedo-undead, could be fun to scare the PCs with something that don't
work as thought.

I have used a quite cool "undead" in an adventure for low level PCs, it's from
a Dragon magazine (don't recal the number). The PCs meets a skeleton that the
priest can't turn (even if the preist should be able), the funny thing is that
there is a wizard who uses unseen servants to move a skeleton, as if it was a
undead. Add a few rouges and/or fighters to that and you can lay an ambush.


//Aho
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 3:27:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111714409.391971.325050@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > The whole idea was to place something utterly defeatable in the path
> of the
> > PC's who was utterly convinced of his own invincability. The humor
> is in
> > the irony, guys, sheesh.
> >
>
> Dude, I got it. You got a chuckle out of me when I read it and I was
> responding more to Rupert. The idea of a 1d4 hp kobold assuming he's
> able take on a party of high level adventurers is actually funny
> because it's *absurd* rather than ironic.

Yeah, well the joke was on them. It took MORE THAN ONE ROUND TO KILL THE
THING!!! Since nobody took it seriously, the first thing that happened was
a fighter tried to throw a warhammer at it, but critically missed, hitting
the wizard behind him on the head. Everyone laughed, and the kobold didn't
really know what to do(since he couldn't actually REACH any of them, given
that they were on horseback). The NEXT round, the wizard had collected
himself enough to actually cast a spell, said "screw it, I'm not going to
leave this up to YOU inept idiots" and magic missiled the thing into
oblivion. To say "overkill" would be a bit of an understatement.

> > In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
> archers
> > and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing
> as last
> > time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT
> A
> > TICK!!
> >
>
> If they're mature enough and don't masterbate on their character
> sheets, chances are they'll enjoy it.

Well, they are, and they ... uh... don't... *puzzled look* That whole
"masturbating on character sheets" is an issue for your group? "Eww,
Thundar is all sticky!"

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 4:25:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:

> In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of archers
> and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as last
> time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
> TICK!!

Kobold Stormtroopers, 60hp each ;) 
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 4:25:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:3ah40aF6c4sleU1@individual.net...
> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>
> > In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
archers
> > and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as
last
> > time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
> > TICK!!
>
> Kobold Stormtroopers, 60hp each ;) 

Yep, that's about the size of it. They're used to kobolds falling off their
swords as they are sliced n diced 50 per round. It will be a CONSIDERABLE
shock if they are facing a group of actually TOUGH kobolds.

"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
<scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the first
volley of arrows rains down>

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
March 25, 2005 11:37:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:41:36 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net> raised a finger to the sky and proclaimed:

>"J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote in message
>news:3ah40aF6c4sleU1@individual.net...
>> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>>
>> > In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
>archers
>> > and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as
>last
>> > time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
>> > TICK!!
>>
>> Kobold Stormtroopers, 60hp each ;) 
>
>Yep, that's about the size of it. They're used to kobolds falling off their
>swords as they are sliced n diced 50 per round. It will be a CONSIDERABLE
>shock if they are facing a group of actually TOUGH kobolds.
>
>"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
>hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
>monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
><scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the first
>volley of arrows rains down>

Man, your players are a lot easier to trick than mine. Mine keep
treating every threat as a credible one...

--
Either way, I hate you Count Chocula, if I didn't already.
- Drifter Bob, rec.games.frp.dnd
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 11:01:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Mouse" <mail141023@pop.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:jhf8419e138h73jsp2njot2dohb2uvm3t8@4ax.com...
> >"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
> >hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
> >monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
> ><scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the
first
> >volley of arrows rains down>
>
> Man, your players are a lot easier to trick than mine. Mine keep
> treating every threat as a credible one...

Put them up against 10 threats that both appear weak and ARE weak in a row.
They'll let their guard down.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 9:49:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1111817655.436456.316190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> It's also in how the DM presents the little bastards. I like to use
> them as tiny pairs of red eyes in the darkness that skitter away when
> the PCs investigate. Later, they'll make their move at the most
> inopportune time for the party, such as after a tough fight, or when
> the party is picking their way out of a pit filled with poisoned
> spikes.

I used the old "candles in the darkness" routine a while ago. Several fog
filled, darkened rooms, you describe two lights(they look like flames, sez
DM) across the room, they investigate, it's candles lit and next to each
other. Do that a few times, and then spring them with some monster that has
flames for eyes(there's a bunch). That's always fun to have the party
literally STROLL into combat range for you.

> And, just to veer back to topic, kobold vampires could be fun. A whole
> horde of the little beasts spider-climbing up the walls of your inn and
> carrying off your familiar in the dead of night.

Our damn wizard hasn't yet decided to get a familiar for me to
steal/vampirize/kill, etc. It's somewhat annoying. ;) 

I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by having
the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1111817655.436456.316190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...


> > And, just to veer back to topic, kobold vampires could be fun. A
whole
> > horde of the little beasts spider-climbing up the walls of your inn
and
> > carrying off your familiar in the dead of night.
>
> Our damn wizard hasn't yet decided to get a familiar for me to
> steal/vampirize/kill, etc. It's somewhat annoying. ;) 
>
> I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by
having
> the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.

Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could be
using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins" from
which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children. As
a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism, and
the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the noble
is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives alone
except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his family.

The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire" in
the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery and
save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.

Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
expect it.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 3:45:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> In article <1111833822.990783.123060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Rump Ranger <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote:


> >That's what I think Jeff is doing. I can believe there are some
uber
> >kobolds out there (especially with 3E campaigns). High class types
> >who've done a lot of exploring or are scouts who keep their lairs
> >hidden from possible interlopers. Every race IMC has exceptional
> >individuals.
>
> However, instead of creating a bunch of very high level kobolds, it
seems to
> me a 3e campaign should simply apply the demographics rules for
highest level
> character(s) in a community of a particular size. So you wouldn't
have a 20th
> level kobold fighter in a community of 100.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking. Assuming that elusive
"standard" campaign world, I think a few exceptional individuals are
well and good, but more 3rd-level cheiftains and such, not 20th-level
powerhouses. Kobolds that exceptional might exist IMC, but only as PCs
or some Abyssal "lord of kobolds" type of thing.

Running into a kobold over level 10 is a stretch, I think, but again
YMMV. I've certainly run campaigns in the past where high-level
humanoids were appropriate and not uncommon.

There's certainly room for situational exceptions, particularly when
applying templates. A bunch of half-fiend or kobolds, for example,
might be fun in some cursed region of the Underdark where some demonic
artifact has been lodged for millennia.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 3:54:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Rump Ranger wrote:


> My old Monster Manual II from the 1E days is packed away somewhere.
> After I got fed up with 2E, I jetisoned pretty much all 1E/2E rules
and
> came back when 3E came out. So my memory is not perfect on exact
> stats, but psuedo-undead are in fact basically living humanoids who
> *appear* as undead in all respects but aren't. The only thing which
> makes them special is that adventurers will fear they are the real
> deal. Looking at ENWorld, it looks like they converted it to 3E:
>
> http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/template/pseudo-und...
>
> All that said, what makes this lame concept so *totally stupid* is
that
> they're actually weaker than the undead they mimic and the characters
> will automatically assume it's the real deal and whoomp 'em. Even
> attempting to turn and fail might convince them to use
martial/magical
> might instead. It is possible the characters see a "psuedo-vampire"
or
> ghost and run, but then again in 3E, vampires and ghosts can start
> appearing at pretty low levels since they're templates.

The only real use for this template that comes to mind is for some sort
of "death cult" of living beings that take on the countanance of the
undead through twisted rituals or bizarre practices. I could see using
pseudo-vampires as hereditary protectors and servants of real vampires,
for example, or worshippers of dark gods that demand blood-drenched
sacrifices.

I don't know that I'd use them as some sort of bait-and-switch, though,
for the reasons you mention.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 5:20:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:D 24ap5$n70$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> I can confidently assert that these ideas are charactistics of 8-year-old
> players. We have the "no character death unless you insist on doing
something
> stupid" variant of script immunity, and he named both of his characters
after
> himself.

Actually, your 8 year old comment is pretty much spot on target. At first,
I was kind of hesitant to invite him to leave, because he hadn't really done
anything overt towards me, but there was quite a bit of animosity at the
table between players. However, I could see where it was going and I had to
decide between losing one player or all players, and decided on the former,
and opted to invite him to leave. He had a temper tantrum(he's about 30).
It made my decision so much easier it wasn't even funny.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 12:23:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1111864757.967575.216680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it
by
> > having
> > > the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.
> >
> > Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could
be
> > using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins"
from
> > which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children.
As
> > a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism,
and
> > the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
> > further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
> > retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the
noble
> > is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives
alone
> > except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his
family.
>
> Not bad. How would the local lord not know about them, though? I
mean if
> they emerge, they either have to go thru the house(!!what's that
> racket!!*snurrggh**flahhh*flergh!*) or he would never actually drink
the
> wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure
that
> little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type
adventure.
> Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.

Well, it may be that there's an old tunnel leading from the wine cellar
to somewhere outside the estate grounds. For whatever reason the lord
doesn't have much use for the cellar anymore, and/or isn't aware of the
tunnel. He's certainly not doing much entertaining, and given his
situation, he may be on to stronger things nowadays than wine. The
kobolds themselves would likely be pretty stealthy anyway, vampires are
silent, and can always do the mist thing to come and go. Bat form is
also an option, and would likely escape notice in an enormous,
crumbling manor house that probably has all manner of vermin in the
rafters and only a handful of human residents.

>
> > The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire"
in
> > the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery
and
> > save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.
>
> Save the noble you've originally set out to kill for his vampirism, I
like
> it.
>
> > Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
> > expect it.
>
> Kobolds are so innocuous that they would be perfect for it.

It could also work with gnomes, wierdly enough.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 12:25:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1111864757.967575.216680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by
> having
> > the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.
>
> Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could be
> using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins" from
> which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children. As
> a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism, and
> the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
> further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
> retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the noble
> is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives alone
> except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his family.

Not bad. How would the local lord not know about them, though? I mean if
they emerge, they either have to go thru the house(!!what's that
racket!!*snurrggh**flahhh*flergh!*) or he would never actually drink the
wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure that
little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type adventure.
Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.

> The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire" in
> the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery and
> save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.

Save the noble you've originally set out to kill for his vampirism, I like
it.

> Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
> expect it.

Kobolds are so innocuous that they would be perfect for it.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 12:55:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rump Ranger wrote:
> madafro@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> > And, just to veer back to topic, kobold vampires could be fun. A
> whole
> > horde of the little beasts spider-climbing up the walls of your inn
> and
> > carrying off your familiar in the dead of night.
> >
>
> Heh. Now that's evil. It's one reason I'm hesitant to actually get
> familiars when I played classes that allow them.

Yeah, you can overdo this kind of thing. I enjoy using animals and
children as plot hooks, not always in a mean way. I like my players to
get pets for their characters, after all, so I don't want to scare them
away from the practice.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 6:48:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1111897430.734570.270910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure
> that
> > little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type
> adventure.
> > Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.
>
> Well, it may be that there's an old tunnel leading from the wine cellar
> to somewhere outside the estate grounds. For whatever reason the lord
> doesn't have much use for the cellar anymore, and/or isn't aware of the
> tunnel. He's certainly not doing much entertaining, and given his
> situation, he may be on to stronger things nowadays than wine.

The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord in a
somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a crackling
fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire, back to
the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the chair at
the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in... Please,
sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and forboding
night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT YOU!!
HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's chest.
*gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err, well,
I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose a
'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 10:11:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Rump Ranger wrote:
>
<snip story>
>
> My point is, some people get so attached to their D&D
> characters that they can sometimes break down to tears
> when they're killed. It's kinda like players who name
> all characters after themselves.

Interestingly, naming a character after yourself is considered to be a
major warning sign of a "Mary Sue" story (fanfiction or otherwise).

I suspect this is not a coincidence. :) 

http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/otto/grayswandir/mary-s...


Arivne
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 11:50:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:


> The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord
in a
> somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a
crackling
> fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire,
back to
> the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the
chair at
> the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in...
Please,
> sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and
forboding
> night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
> MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT
YOU!!
> HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's
chest.
> *gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err,
well,
> I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose
a
> 'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."


Reminds me of "Transylvania 6-5000" for some reason.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 2:32:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:48:19 -0500, Jeff Goslin wrote:

> The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord in a
> somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a crackling
> fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire, back to
> the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the chair at
> the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in... Please,
> sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and forboding
> night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
> MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT YOU!!
> HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's chest.
> *gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err, well,
> I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose a
> 'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."

This makes a fine example of a situation where a paladin _should_ be
firing off his ability to detect evil.


"Hmmm. Guys, something's wrong here: He isn't a vampire."

--
Phoenix
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 7:35:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Rick Pikul" <rwpikul@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.28.03.32.11.720327@sympatico.ca...
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:48:19 -0500, Jeff Goslin wrote:
>
> > The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord in
a
> > somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a
crackling
> > fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire, back
to
> > the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the chair
at
> > the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in...
Please,
> > sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and forboding
> > night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
> > MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT YOU!!
> > HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's chest.
> > *gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err, well,
> > I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose a
> > 'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."
>
> This makes a fine example of a situation where a paladin _should_ be
> firing off his ability to detect evil.
>
>
> "Hmmm. Guys, something's wrong here: He isn't a vampire."

Edit, Replace, search for: Paladin, replace with: Dumb As FencePost
Fighter... ;) 

On a side note, work on that sense of humor, it's a bit rusty. ;) 

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 4:59:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:35:29 -0500, Jeff Goslin wrote:

> "Rick Pikul" <rwpikul@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:p an.2005.03.28.03.32.11.720327@sympatico.ca...

>> This makes a fine example of a situation where a paladin _should_ be
>> firing off his ability to detect evil.
>>
>>
>> "Hmmm. Guys, something's wrong here: He isn't a vampire."
>
> Edit, Replace, search for: Paladin, replace with: Dumb As FencePost
> Fighter... ;) 
>
> On a side note, work on that sense of humor, it's a bit rusty. ;) 

Actually, I was more making note that you came up with a very good
example, even if it was intended to be humourous. In fact, the
"funny-oops" nature of it is part of what makes it a good example.

--
Phoenix
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 5:59:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Rick Pikul" <rwpikul@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.29.05.59.27.495029@sympatico.ca...
> > Edit, Replace, search for: Paladin, replace with: Dumb As FencePost
> > Fighter... ;) 
> >
> > On a side note, work on that sense of humor, it's a bit rusty. ;) 
>
> Actually, I was more making note that you came up with a very good
> example, even if it was intended to be humourous. In fact, the
> "funny-oops" nature of it is part of what makes it a good example.

Well, thank you. Personally, I like putting characters in situations that
have a humorous silver lining in them. We play for fun, after all. I don't
think I can recall a recent adventure that DIDN'T have at least one humorous
encounter. I mean, it's not all clowny and stuff, we do serious stuff too,
but it's fun to let your hair down once in an 8 hour session, ya know? It's
what we do to unwind, after all.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 4:48:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> "Mouse" <mail141023@pop.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:jhf8419e138h73jsp2njot2dohb2uvm3t8@4ax.com...
>
>>>"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
>>>hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
>>>monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
>>><scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the
>
> first
>
>>>volley of arrows rains down>
>>
>>Man, your players are a lot easier to trick than mine. Mine keep
>>treating every threat as a credible one...
>
>
> Put them up against 10 threats that both appear weak and ARE weak in a row.
> They'll let their guard down.

Then, you give them a kobold named Brucius Banerius... "Don't make me
abgry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 4:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1111864757.967575.216680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by
>>
>>having
>>
>>>the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.
>>
>>Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could be
>>using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins" from
>>which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children. As
>>a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism, and
>>the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
>>further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
>>retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the noble
>>is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives alone
>>except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his family.
>
>
> Not bad. How would the local lord not know about them, though? I mean if
> they emerge, they either have to go thru the house(!!what's that
> racket!!*snurrggh**flahhh*flergh!*) or he would never actually drink the
> wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure that
> little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type adventure.
> Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.
>
>
>>The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire" in
>>the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery and
>>save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.
>
>
> Save the noble you've originally set out to kill for his vampirism, I like
> it.
>
>
>>Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
>>expect it.
>
>
> Kobolds are so innocuous that they would be perfect for it.

Maybe the Noble is so poor that rather than continue paying his
servants, he dismissed them and hired Kobolds to be his servants a
couple decades ago. That's why they are there.

Of course, they weren't vampiric at the time. That happened in the last
couple months/years, when a vampiric kobold heard about the sweet lair
the other kobolds were living in, came around, and 'took over' the tribe.

They haven't killed the noble, because he unwittingly provides
protection to their predations, being embarrassed to have kobolds as
servants, he doesn't allow anyone into the central keep, so no one else
knows they are around.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 5:18:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

madafro@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> David Alex Lamb wrote:
>
>>In article <1111833822.990783.123060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>Rump Ranger <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>That's what I think Jeff is doing. I can believe there are some
>
> uber
>
>>>kobolds out there (especially with 3E campaigns). High class types
>>>who've done a lot of exploring or are scouts who keep their lairs
>>>hidden from possible interlopers. Every race IMC has exceptional
>>>individuals.
>>
>>However, instead of creating a bunch of very high level kobolds, it
>
> seems to
>
>>me a 3e campaign should simply apply the demographics rules for
>
> highest level
>
>>character(s) in a community of a particular size. So you wouldn't
>
> have a 20th
>
>>level kobold fighter in a community of 100.
>
>
> This is along the lines of what I was thinking. Assuming that elusive
> "standard" campaign world, I think a few exceptional individuals are
> well and good, but more 3rd-level cheiftains and such, not 20th-level
> powerhouses. Kobolds that exceptional might exist IMC, but only as PCs
> or some Abyssal "lord of kobolds" type of thing.
>
> Running into a kobold over level 10 is a stretch, I think, but again
> YMMV. I've certainly run campaigns in the past where high-level
> humanoids were appropriate and not uncommon.
>
> There's certainly room for situational exceptions, particularly when
> applying templates. A bunch of half-fiend or kobolds, for example,
> might be fun in some cursed region of the Underdark where some demonic
> artifact has been lodged for millennia.

In an OD&D game I was in many years back, we ended up with a clutch of
Kobold Eggs, and decided to take them home and hatch them (We were quite
low level at the time).

By the time the campaign ended (due to graduations, marriages etc), we
were in the 15-17 level range, and the kobolds were trusty NPCs and
companions, with levels ranging from 3 to 7.

If you encounter kobolds laired in an empty mage's tower, the leaders
may very well have been that mage's trusted companions, so watch out.

Imagine the same situation in 3E: The tribe is lead by former
followers/cohorts of an adeventuring party that retired. The hundred or
so kobolds you've just met may well include a dozen fighters and
wizard/sorceror-types in the 6 to 10 level range, all trained and tested
in the 'Big Leagues' of Dungeon Delving. These leader types have
trained their new tribe, so many, if not all will be leveled, the
exceptional among them being 3rd to fifth level.

So, whattya got?
5 Fighter Types leveled 5 to 10
5 Wizard Types leveled 5 to 10
10 Fighter Types leveled 3 to 5
10 Wizard Types leveled 3 to 5
15 Fighter Types leveled 1 to 3
15 Wizard Types leveled 1 to 3
40 Normal Kobolds

With experience coupled to innate cunning.

*shudder*
!