Why need more than 486-dx2-66?

Tormented · Jan 7, 2001

People: Question ..
Why the hell do we need more than our trusty 486-dx2-66?
with 16 mb, and an sb32-with 8 mb, 8 gb hd, and some Tseng e6000 with 4 mb... now those were the days, and why do we need more? Games ? well i know different CAD and graphic designer do need the power but other than that and games ?
why the hell do we need it ?

About games that need power more and more,
I've seen a demo that was coded by some demo group (can't remember which) that ran a 3d demo on an XT.

So all you need is to optimize it and write it smart.

I've seen a 4095 Bytes demo of a DESCENT engine , that showed a complete flight .. thath only 4K!

I bet this stuff would work on some crummy ol 286...

Why because Winblows demands it ?
remeber win 1.01 now that was a GUI with only using 64k ram!

since than M$ spolied it ... Winblows is poorly written...

and games ..god... since Unreal, i havn't seen a discent game no game ,, so buy a powerfull computer for crappy games ?

well that's my opinion at least..

-----------------------
-R.K.

Grizely1 · Jan 7, 2001

CAD and GAMES are all we do anyways. That's why

Bubba · Jan 7, 2001

Games, games, games.
I wasn't aware you could use your computer for anything else.

Guest · Jan 7, 2001

You said it. Games. But also, we have to keep up with bloatware like Office 2000 (it's not just M$ who are guilty however). I find that it's a much better experience running anything on a faster PC.

Also, I do quite large amounts of maths on my PC using computer algebra packages - and they certainly run faster on 1GHz than 100MHz.

Some of the databases I use are over 10MB, for example customer records, etc. With only 16MB (like some of the really old PCs at work) these feel really tired, cos the hard drive is being used as memory (with a huge performance downer). Stuff that I scan simply won't fit into 16MB, for example 5000 pixels by 5000 pixels in 36-bit colour (which is a pretty small image these days) is well over 100MB uncompressed (no not even JPEG can compress that much!). When you're working on a couple of these, cutting and pasting, and applying filters etc, 128MB or 256MB feels much more comfortable.

Lastly, With a 60GB hard drive, I can give 40GB to Win and 20GB to Linux. You may say the OSes are bloated, and I agree, but with a large hard drive you can have any number of systems running together.

Mordy · Jan 7, 2001

There are some applications that need all that power , like MP3 playing, software based wawetable cynth, e.t.c.

Guest · Jan 7, 2001

Games, video editing, mpeg1-4, internet, cad, mp3s, cd burning, office apps, the ability to use more and more sensitive and more feature rich peripherals(i.e. video cameras(firewire), optical mice(need usb), Feedback joysticks)), super rich graphics(lots of huge, super detailed textures), dolby surround sound 5.1, etc. etc. etc.

it's called innovation, sort of what makes the world go round. You need a little imagination to see where it is all going and why we are getting more and more powerful computers.

Guest · Jan 7, 2001

Microsoft, Microsoft, Bloatware all the way.......

oh, and games

mpjesse · Jan 7, 2001

What the hell are you talking about? I run Windows 3.1 on my T-bird. I play all my games in DOS 6.22. I use memmaker to optimize all my memory- all 256 megs of it. =) Just kidding.

-MP Jesse

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

Those were the days, when you'd use every trick you could to free up the 640k

I was satisfied with 624k - could run pretty much any DOS game with that and plenty of XMS free

mpjesse · Jan 8, 2001

LOL. It used to be SUCH a pain in the ass to get all 640K too. I remember when games were pushing the limit of using conventional memory in DOS- like Dark Forces, Doom 2, and Tie Fighter. Damn things wouldn't run if it didn't have almost all of the conv. memory. What a pain in the ass. Thank god for windows- in that aspect anyways. =)

-MP Jesse

Tormented · Jan 8, 2001

what you call pain.

I call fun, I remeber sitting hours just to free that one more K . now that was fun! more than games.

I like DOS , liked a litlle the win 3.11 , hate win95!

Dos is better...

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-R.K.

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

With that argument, we would all be driving around in Model T Fords, Try playing Project ICI on a 486

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

What about Unreal Tournament I reckon that's pretty smart and it looks sex in 1280x1024....... but you are right we don't need half of this hardware but it is fun to have.....

one of the first UK T-Bird users....

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

Perhaps the true people who needs such powerful hardwares are innovators, scientist, doctors and engineers

ie, people that made the CPU, chips

ie, engineer that uses maths so intensive requires a 1Ghz system running for a week.

ie, scientist to decone space man

Although what ever they do can be optimised, but before that day, you have to simply rely to what ever you have.

So far humans have not invented formula that could be so accurate and efficient that could replace the matrix etc.

computer simulation on a flat panel loudspeaker, not yet in full detail already takes a Dual P2-333 over 24 hours. of course it is on a dual CPU supported OS and the program that was used to calculate the stuff is written specifically to use dual CPU etc.

Best regards
cx5

rcf84 · Jan 8, 2001

well some froms of linux only need a 386.

ABIT BP6 + ATI RADEON 32MB DDR RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kodiak · Jan 8, 2001

the inital poster is right in some respect though, and if you haven't seen the Assembly 4k demos (I was lucky enough to see them

, you don't have a clue of what we're talking about... I simply couldn't believe my eyes. I spent hours trying to see if they're linking to some larger files somewhere, even booted off the floppy... those are some tight code optimizations -- everything in assembler, self-modifying code, etc. If those guys made games, Unreal would fit on couple of floppies for sure... you can bet on that

nothing is optimized today, people writing games these days license the engine, which is written in development environment, which is written in visual something or the other, which is then written in C++ or something, which is then maybe written in assembler... way, way too high-level programming.
Theoretically, that high-level machine-independent programming should bring
1- speed of development and
2- reliable, hardware-independent performance.
*Hah!*
It still takes them years for game development, and then we have to mess with the drivers ourselves, reinstall hardware and software etc...

the whole industry is going down the drains, that's whay I say!

/end rant;
anyhoo... what I'm saying is progress doesn't mean these things can't still be optimized up the wazoo... we could all write better code... we just don't bother when Ahtlons and P4s are here

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

Try running Gnome on a 386 + 2MB. It stinks. Sure, Linux on a 386 is fine as a cheap mailserver (I use one myself) but if you want to do all those things that are just better in Linux - like 3D drawing, CAD, mathematical packages, software development, etc, then you'll need a little more IMHO.

It's true ASM code is tighter - but faster processors mean that software doesn't need to be written with so much care. This has opened the software world to millions of individuals rather than huge companies who are prepared to spend hours debugging binary code.

I wonder if all the (very good) freeware available today written in VB, C++, Delphi, etc, would be around if you had to write everything in ASM? I certainly don't think so. Would there be huge numbers of software houses producing competitive products? No. (OK, I get what you're thinking - M$, but they'll be gone in 5 years tops thanks to the DOJ).

Also, I'd like to see someone video conferencing over a gigabits network in 800x600 using a 486...

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

if you were creative enough, you didn't need Windows anyway on a gmaes machine

Just for the record, I have never used memmaker, I'd play with emm386 and all that stuff without getting some program to do it for me

These days I don't even use a DOS based OS (viva la Windows NT 4.0!)

Kodiak · Jan 8, 2001

I still have dosprompt shortcutted to ctrl-alt-d... use it at least once per session (i.e. daily at least)

some things are just easier, and old habits die hard

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

I can do a lot of things so much more quickly with a DOS prompt than using explorer. Comes from being brought up on DOS/Win3.1 when everybody else was getting Win95 (Dec. 95). In hindsight Iam glad I started off with it

Kodiak · Jan 8, 2001

how would you mass-rename in windows?
ren *.exe *.bak -- no idea if that's even doable in explorer etc..

and so many things like that...

Guest · Jan 8, 2001

You need 3rd party tools for something that simple, it is annoying isnn't it?

phsstpok · Jan 8, 2001

If a Model T is a 486 then we're just driving Model T Hotrods. There isn't that much innovation in current P3s and Athlons.

Guest · Jan 9, 2001

About 10 years ago, a friend of mine plunked down a tremendous amount of money for a 486sx-25 that was often slower than my 386dx-40. Ah, the sweet days of yesteryear.

Actually I think the difference is more like model T's to F1 racecars. But perhaps it is true that we shouldn't settle for wheeled vehicles at all, any longer. Maybe we should wait for the rocketships...

Tom Mc

Even a fool, when he remains silent, appears wise.

Tormented · Jan 9, 2001

I know what 4k demos you are talking about, i've seen most of them and there are 64k compos, and names like future crew or skaven, trust me i've seen in 4k a full 3d world and flying trough it with sound ! i collect those

and love those they are the best!

-----------------------
-R.K.

Why need more than 486-dx2-66?

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