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NPP - rogue abilities spoiler by request

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Anonymous
April 10, 2005 12:16:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

{paste in request from other post}

"Severoth" <severoth@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:D 3ab9g$181k$1@news.vol.cz...
> On 2005-04-09 20:13:19, "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I really wish all the rogue things would get explained actually. From when
> people start searching for you to the haste thing. So much information
that
> would be better off telling us. :) 
>
> Could include the things like traps as well.
>
Here you go. I agree that some of this stuff should be in the
helpfiles.....

All players get an increased chance to hit a sleeping monster (5 + player
level / 5. The rogue combat flag increases this number by 50%.

You can steal from monsters. The formula for determining successful theft
is complicated. The biggest factors for determining if the theft is
successful are:

-monster level
-player level
-monster intelligence
-monster & player speed

-you have a much better chance when the monster is asleep, confused, or
stunned.
-monsters that can steal themselves are very hard to steal from
-creatures that carry good or great objects, or chests are harder to steal
from, but on the other hand this is where the reward is worth it.

In general, I made failing to steal a bad thing. It can aggravate the whole
dungeon if you do it too often, and not even leaving the level helps this.
All monsters are given the maximum "normal" speed variance that usually
means they get 11 turns to your 10 if you are the same speed. In the town,
all the shops close for a while. I did this for game balance purposes, so a
player can't take a creature with excellent drops down to one star and just
stand there and steal excellent items all day long. And I know it makes no
sense that the monsters don't mind you hacking them to bits and plundering
their corpse but stealing from them really makes them mad, but it is a game
balance issue.

In general, a good steal should be planned. Try creatures with decent
object drops that are sleeping, confused or stunned and all alone. Haste
yourself, and give stealing a try. Just do this occasionally, don't fail
five times in a row.

You do get hasted for two turns (at normal speed) after a theft
attempt....just to let you try to get away.

rogues get increased damage from slings - 66% of player level added to total
damage.

They are very good with throwing weapons, and can do great damage with a
well balanced weapon. Try throwing one of the *thancs sometime. Can really
do damage to creatures pre-statgain.

Rogues get to hit bonus with slings - 3 + (player level / 4)

rogues get an extra shot at level 26.

rogues can set traps - monsters become wary when they see a trap being set,
or set off by another monster. They are best set around corners, ideally
when creatures walk into them one at a time without too many other creatures
seeing the trap get set off. Again, the chance of the monster setting off
the player trap depends on monster level, player level, monster
intelligence, evasiveness, etc....

you can modify a trap, the higher the player level, the more choices the
player gets:

The default is the basic trap. Individual trap damage varies each time but
goes up exponentially as the player gains levels:

n = player level + (player level * player level)/ 12);
"trap damage" = 3 + randint(n) + n;

(damage from a plain trap is half of that "trap damage" number calculated
above)

players also get a sturdy trap option right away, which does 33% damage of
the trap damage figure (or 66% of a regular trap) but is almost 3 times less
likely to break - useful for helping getting away from a room of lice or
rats.

level 6 - slowing trap - slows monsters (obviously) - helpful to set up
pillar dancing.

level 12 - confusion trap - confuses monsters (obviously) - useful to set up
thefts. Note that unless the monster has the no_confuse flag, they get no
saving throw unlike confusion spells, so it can be used to confuse some
uniques. Note: Too late for version 0.4.1, but I just changed the slowing
trap to make creatures with the NO_SLOW flag immune to slowing. Before it
had the unique flag, because when I put in the monster traps, I hadn't done
4gai yet and the NO_SLOW flag didn't exist.

level 18 - poison trap - poison ball spell with damage 66% of that "trap
damage" number calculated above, or 33% more than a normal trap.

level 24 - life draining trap - this one is probably the most useful trap -
ball spell with damage 75% of that "trap damage" number calculated above, or
50% more than a normal trap. No damage to the non-living.

level 30 - electricity trap - electric ball spell with damage 87.5% of that
"trap damage" number calculated above. Can destroy things on the ground
susceptible to electricity.

level 36 - explosion - 2 ball spells - one fire 37.5% damage of that "trap
damage" number calculated above, than one shard 37.5% damage of that "trap
damage" number calculated above. This one does destroy stuff on the ground
as well. Probably not as useful as some lower level traps. In typing this
out I realize there is much room for improvement. I think I was thinking it
would hurt more monsters than the electricity because not many things resist
shards. For NPP 050, I just changed the fire burst to plasma, and upped the
damage of each ball spell to 66% of the trap damage number. More unresisted
damage, but that will really clear out inventory on the ground as well.
Should be very nice against zephyr hounds, though.

level 42 - teleport away - I just thought this might be useful to get
creatures away from a vault without having to be within LOS of them-
probably not very useful now that the monsters hold the objects in vaults.
Suggestions?

level 48 dispel monsters - this is the big one....between 100% and 200% of
that trap damage number (and I upped to up to 250% of trap damage number for
NPP 050) - to all creatures within LOS of trap, no chance for anything to
resist - getting a creature to set this one off in a crowded room is
extremely satisfying.

Rogues also get to set a second traps at level 26. Also note that any traps
set by the create monster trap scroll does not count against this total, and
can also be modified to one of the specialized traps above.

I hope that helps.

Also one final note for the competition - Items that have a random ability
can have more than one random ability. There is now a rod of *identify*
that should get heavy use when you find it. And there is always the store
service before you find one. While there are no artifacts, there are some
very artifact-like objects to be found. Keep *identifying* those shields
and armor of elvenkind, or items with random abilities. Cloaks of Aman have
a random immunity. You will eventually find some with 2 or rarely 3 of
them. 4 or more is possible but a very remote possibility. It
automatically adds one ability/high resist/immunity than continues to add
them every time it passes a one in 20 test.

I hope this helps......

--
-Jeff

replace the ".spam"s with comcast.net to reply

Author of NPPAngband. Check it out at:
http://home.comcast.net/~nppangband/

More about : npp rogue abilities spoiler request

Anonymous
April 10, 2005 4:41:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Jeff Greene writes:

[ rogue spoilers ]

Rogue is kind of fun when you get used to it, though I fear that
monster traps will be much less useful deep in the dungeon, when
mlev >> plev.

I never thought of trap/door destruction and stinking cloud as useful
offensive weapons before, but the monster traps certainly make them so.

And you absolutely need ESP as a rogue. I spent $40K for a helmet of
ESP in the store, and it was a huge win. (Put away the Crown of
Might.)

One gripe. I can take care of all the necessary supplies except for
ammo.

The stores simply don't stock enough (0,0) iron shot/rounded pebbles.
I cache what I find at home, but I still ocassionally have to town-scum
for more. I do buy all the odd-lot branded & slay evil shot that turns
up. I suspect the shot stock amount is an artifact of vanilla, where
there's no incentive to carry 70+ iron shot. And pebbles are better,
at 20% less weight, for only 3-5% damage penalty (68.5HP/shot vs
71.5HP/shot for current character), yet they appear less frequently.

Caching ?PD takes care of it being out of stock. But I can't do
anything about the ammo.
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 5:00:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Jeff Greene wrote:
> The default is the basic trap. Individual trap damage varies each time but
> goes up exponentially as the player gains levels:
>
> n = player level + (player level * player level)/ 12);
> "trap damage" = 3 + randint(n) + n;

Exponentially? This looks quadratic in player level to me.

--
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Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
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Anonymous
April 10, 2005 5:41:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:

> Jeff Greene writes:
>
> [ rogue spoilers ]
>
> Rogue is kind of fun when you get used to it, though I fear that
> monster traps will be much less useful deep in the dungeon, when
> mlev >> plev.
>
> I never thought of trap/door destruction and stinking cloud as useful
> offensive weapons before, but the monster traps certainly make them
> so.

How is trap destruction useful offensively? That sounds interesting.

> And you absolutely need ESP as a rogue. I spent $40K for a helmet of
> ESP in the store, and it was a huge win. (Put away the Crown of
> Might.)
>
> One gripe. I can take care of all the necessary supplies except for
> ammo.
>
> The stores simply don't stock enough (0,0) iron shot/rounded pebbles.

The store only carries cheap stuff, so you can probably buy it out
pretty easily. If you are playing a comp and trying to save game
turns, you should probably go through the annoyance of
buying/destroying every item in the store. When it restocks, there
will probably be some pebbles/shots.

Another problem may be that Jeff upped the number of slots in use in
stores. I know when I originally experimented with that, it had the
surprising effect of reducing the likelihood that the alchemist
actually carried ?recall. I still haven't worked out exactly why.
Somehow useless stuff takes over and doesn't leave quickly enough. Or
maybe I was particularly unlucky during those experiments, and it was
just my imagination.


Eddie
April 10, 2005 6:06:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
> > Jeff Greene writes:

> > [ rogue spoilers ]

> > Rogue is kind of fun when you get used to it, though I fear that
> > monster traps will be much less useful deep in the dungeon, when
> > mlev >> plev.
> >
> > I never thought of trap/door destruction and stinking cloud as
useful
> > offensive weapons before, but the monster traps certainly make them
> > so.

> How is trap destruction useful offensively? That sounds interesting.

When I read it I thought "ah, so *that's* how I free up one of my traps
when I'm halfway across the room ...."

> The store only carries cheap stuff, so you can probably buy it out
> pretty easily. If you are playing a comp and trying to save game
> turns, you should probably go through the annoyance of
> buying/destroying every item in the store. When it restocks, there
> will probably be some pebbles/shots.

There must be a better solution than this. After you've solved the ID
problem (and world peace) perhaps you could turn your attentions to
stores ;-)

CC
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 7:09:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie grove writes:

> How is door destruction an offensive weapon?


There are many, many, hallways like this:

#@#
#####'####
OOO ' '
##########

I like to set the trap immediately around the corner, since only one O
is wary, and the next will step on the (lightning) trap. but I can't
if there's a door in the way. I leave the thing there, and keep
retreating until there's another crook in the passageway, and set
another. The O's (eg) never catch up, because the leaders keep dying.
And you can always set another, because the fragile traps get
destroyed.


But it only works if very few O's are "wary". Sure, there are other
ways to kill these monsters, but this technique wastes no time in
recovering HP.

And "stinking cloud" is an offensive weapon because it wakes monsters
up around a corner, so they will step in your trap. Or it wakes a
whole bunch of fire ants (eg) up at once, so they will all die
together, no need to waste ammo, no need to let anything get
incinerated, lots of easy experience.
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 7:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Followup on destroying doors as an offensive weapon for Rogue:

I realized I didn't make myself clear enough in the previous post.
There are two good places to put a trap: immediately around a corner,
and the next square beyond that. The best thing to do is to use both
places like this:

#^#
####^#####

##########

Corners are a valuable commodity when you are retreating down a hallway
setting traps. Destroying the door allows you to use the corner twice.
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 7:24:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Eddie Grove wrote:
>> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > Jeff Greene writes:
>
>> > [ rogue spoilers ]
>
>> > Rogue is kind of fun when you get used to it, though I fear that
>> > monster traps will be much less useful deep in the dungeon, when
>> > mlev >> plev.
>> >
>> > I never thought of trap/door destruction and stinking cloud as
> useful
>> > offensive weapons before, but the monster traps certainly make them
>> > so.
>
>> How is trap destruction useful offensively? That sounds interesting.
>
> When I read it I thought "ah, so *that's* how I free up one of my traps
> when I'm halfway across the room ...."

Oh - you mean rod of disarming - that's something completely
different. :)  <ducks>

>> The store only carries cheap stuff, so you can probably buy it out
>> pretty easily. If you are playing a comp and trying to save game
>> turns, you should probably go through the annoyance of
>> buying/destroying every item in the store. When it restocks, there
>> will probably be some pebbles/shots.
>
> There must be a better solution than this. After you've solved the ID
> problem (and world peace) perhaps you could turn your attentions to
> stores ;-)

It is classic *band maintainer philosophy that stores should be random
instead of simply providing essentials. I never understood it, but
there is no point in complaining about it. There are easy solutions,
e.g. in NPP one could make food, oil, lanterns, each base ammo, etc
available as store services easily enough.

It would not bother me if stores had no inventory at all, and
everything was either available as a store service or not at all.
But that's a radical viewpoint, and I don't mean to push anyone
else to act on it.

My solution is to change the "commonly stocked" code to increase the
set of objects commonly stocked and to keep them in much higher
quantities. If I ever get my patch done, perhaps Jeff will snag some
of my mods. I'd rather he spent his time working on AI issues.


Eddie
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 8:27:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove writes:
>My solution is to change the "commonly stocked" code to increase the
>set of objects commonly stocked and to keep them in much higher
>quantities. If I ever get my patch done, perhaps Jeff will snag some
>of my mods. I'd rather he spent his time working on AI issues.

I don't mind that the stores sometimes run out. I'm willing to town
scum in exceptional cases. Most of them run out so rarely that it's
not much of an issue; with the exception of shot, the only ones in NPP
that you really have to worry about is ID, _tele, ?PD and !Hero, for
those who like melee. For those, I may keep a backup supply at home.

The trouble with shot is that the average amount I find in the store
seems to be lower than the average amount I use between store visits.
I generally come back to town with zero ammo/PD/cheap books.

If the average amount of shot in the store when I return is 30(?),
there is nothing I can do but scum. With arrows and bolts, the
average in the two stores combined is much higher than the average
count of shot+pebbles. Eg: 0,0 shot seems never to show up in the
weapon smith's.

This isn't a problem in vanilla, because there's no reason to use shot
except possibly on levels 1-3, when you might have been unable to buy a
bow, or if you happen to find an ego sling early. But with NPP Rogue,
shot/pebbles has become a useful commodity in bulk.

Alternatively, shot could be much less fragile, and afford more re-use.
That's actually not unreasonable, since:

1. It weighs a lot, so it's harder to carry than arrows. (Pretty much
a wash with bolts, since Xbow is so heavy to begin with. But xbow does
more damage.)
2. Even for rogues, branded shot does less damage on average than
branded arrows/bolts. This is a significant penalty for (expensive)
branding service.
3. (less important) How on earth does an iron shot break anyway? :-)
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 8:46:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in message
news:m38y3q1i0e.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com...
> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Jeff Greene writes:
> >
> >
> > I never thought of trap/door destruction and stinking cloud as useful
> > offensive weapons before, but the monster traps certainly make them
> > so.
>
> I never thought of trap/door destruction and stinking cloud as useful
> offensive weapons before, but the monster traps certainly make them
> so.

Set a trap(s) behind a door, or wall where the monsters can't see you so
they don't become wary (which makes them much less susceptible to traps and
stealing). Step back, open the door or blast it with stone to mud. Let the
monsters through into your row of traps....stand back and pick off the
survivors with your sling.

-Jeff
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 2:58:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:16:44 -0400, "Jeff Greene"
<nppangband@spam.spam.spam.spam,> wrote:

(snip useful info)

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for posting this!! Sure beats rummaging through the source
files...

Best, Hugo
--
Your sig line (k) was stolen! (more)
There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 7:39:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1113167212.927920.82530@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Eddie Grove wrote:
> > "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
> > > Jeff Greene writes:
>
> > > [ rogue spoilers ]

> There must be a better solution than this. After you've solved the ID
> problem (and world peace) perhaps you could turn your attentions to
> stores ;-)
>

BM offered a *identfy* rod for 120k and I couldn't resist. Three words: TMJ
is solved...
*big nasty drops pile of stuff*
*z8*
*on the ground: useless junk, squelched* (x7)
*on the ground: thingy of usefullness*
*you pick up thingy of usefullness*
*you continue the hunt*

mass Id really does the job :)  thanks Jeff

Now my rogue just needs to get strong enough to actually clear any high
level pits, so the rod can show it's real power

> CC
>
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 7:58:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Jeff Greene" <nppangband@spam.spam.spam.spam,> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:gvednfxMsufVhMTfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...
> {paste in request from other post}
>
> "Severoth" <severoth@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:D 3ab9g$181k$1@news.vol.cz...
> > On 2005-04-09 20:13:19, "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I really wish all the rogue things would get explained actually. From
when
> > people start searching for you to the haste thing. So much information
> that
> > would be better off telling us. :) 
> >
> > Could include the things like traps as well.
> >
> Here you go. I agree that some of this stuff should be in the
> helpfiles.....
>

> level 6 - slowing trap - slows monsters (obviously) - helpful to set up
> pillar dancing.
>
> level 12 - confusion trap - confuses monsters (obviously) - useful to set
up
> thefts. Note that unless the monster has the no_confuse flag, they get no
> saving throw unlike confusion spells, so it can be used to confuse some
> uniques. Note: Too late for version 0.4.1, but I just changed the slowing
> trap to make creatures with the NO_SLOW flag immune to slowing. Before it
> had the unique flag, because when I put in the monster traps, I hadn't
done
> 4gai yet and the NO_SLOW flag didn't exist.

.... never used any of the early three traps Usually if I can't kill *insert
monster* on the current level, then making it slow or confused either
doesn't work on it, or doesn't help enough. Probably very usefull against
non unique orcs... Must remember that next time...

>
> level 18 - poison trap - poison ball spell with damage 66% of that "trap
> damage" number calculated above, or 33% more than a normal trap.
>
> level 24 - life draining trap - this one is probably the most useful
trap -
> ball spell with damage 75% of that "trap damage" number calculated above,
or
> 50% more than a normal trap. No damage to the non-living.
>
> level 30 - electricity trap - electric ball spell with damage 87.5% of
that
> "trap damage" number calculated above. Can destroy things on the ground
> susceptible to electricity.
>

Those things are fun, and kill most Z easy. Also nice for Ts. I think those
3 are well ballenced, enough damage to use them, but no
overkill

> level 36 - explosion - 2 ball spells - one fire 37.5% damage of that "trap
> damage" number calculated above, than one shard 37.5% damage of that "trap
> damage" number calculated above. This one does destroy stuff on the
ground
> as well. Probably not as useful as some lower level traps. In typing
this
> out I realize there is much room for improvement. I think I was thinking
it
> would hurt more monsters than the electricity because not many things
resist
> shards. For NPP 050, I just changed the fire burst to plasma, and upped
the
> damage of each ball spell to 66% of the trap damage number. More
unresisted
> damage, but that will really clear out inventory on the ground as well.
> Should be very nice against zephyr hounds, though.
>

This one does not just destroy stuff on the ground, but also always destroys
the trap, well at least in 20 tries where I looked closely at the
messages all 20 were destroyed on first use. With Plasma stunning those will
rock

> level 42 - teleport away - I just thought this might be useful to get
> creatures away from a vault without having to be within LOS of them-
> probably not very useful now that the monsters hold the objects in vaults.
> Suggestions?
>

Haven't reached 42 yet, but here is my suggestion: It doesn't matter if that
40ood monster holds half of the vaults items, I don't want to fight it.
However I want to kill the small kobold in front of it, and behind it. So if
you would make the 42 trap remote controllable, I could savely teleport out
the
big one.

> level 48 dispel monsters - this is the big one....between 100% and 200% of
> that trap damage number (and I upped to up to 250% of trap damage number
for
> NPP 050) - to all creatures within LOS of trap, no chance for anything to
> resist - getting a creature to set this one off in a crowded room is
> extremely satisfying.
>
Can't wait to reach 48 :)  :)  :) 

> Rogues also get to set a second traps at level 26. Also note that any
traps
> set by the create monster trap scroll does not count against this total,
and
> can also be modified to one of the specialized traps above.
>
> I hope that helps.
>

yes it does. Trapping is fun.

> replace the ".spam"s with comcast.net to reply
>
> Author of NPPAngband. Check it out at:
> http://home.comcast.net/~nppangband/
>
>
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 7:58:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Jeda" <Matthias.n0spamRudolf@gmail.helloworld.com> wrote in message
news:D 3cli7$22b$00$1@news.t-online.com...
>
> "Jeff Greene" <nppangband@spam.spam.spam.spam,> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:gvednfxMsufVhMTfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...

> >
>
> This one does not just destroy stuff on the ground, but also always
destroys
> the trap, well at least in 20 tries where I looked closely at the
> messages all 20 were destroyed on first use. With Plasma stunning those
will
> rock
>
True, the explosion trap is always destroyed by a special hack. This is the
only trap like this.

-Jeff
!