[NPP] Traps & stealth

[magnate]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I just lost my ~18th Kelumen to a gorgimaera at 1150' because I forgot
it hit to paralyze and I had no FA and let it get too close. Oops. I've
decided that if I'm to stand any chance of winning this comp it's going
to be with stealth.

Jeff - can one get perfect stealth in NPP, same as in V? I forget the
number, but I think the mechanic is that each plus point of stealth
halves the chance of monsters waking up, up to something like +25 where
that chance becomes zero. Since hobbit rogues start with +9 it should
be possible (with plenty of elvenkind items) to get perfect stealth.
That would be good.

Second question: my confusion traps frequently fail, yet your recent
spoiler post claims that non-immunes get no save. These failures are on
normal non-immune beasties (orcs, ogres etc.). What's happening? Same
with slowing traps - do monsters get a save against those?

CC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Second question: my confusion traps frequently fail, yet your recent
> spoiler post claims that non-immunes get no save. These failures are on
> normal non-immune beasties (orcs, ogres etc.). What's happening? Same
> with slowing traps - do monsters get a save against those?

I would guess what's going on is that the monsters get a save against
setting off the trap. If it goes off, then presumably they get no
save against the confusion effect. Would that explain it?


Eddie

 

[magnate]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

It would, but as well as seeing "the monster avoids your trap", I'm
seeing "the monster sets off your trap -more- the monster is
unaffected!" ...

 

[magnate]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Jeff Greene wrote:
> "magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1113775657.592758.147510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> > Jeff - can one get perfect stealth in NPP, same as in V? I forget
the

> With 4gai perfect stealth isn't possible, because there is a minimum
amount
> of "background noise".

ah heck.

> > Second question: my confusion traps frequently fail, yet your
recent
> > spoiler post claims that non-immunes get no save. These failures
are on
> > normal non-immune beasties (orcs, ogres etc.). What's happening?
Same

> quote from the spoiler..."Note that unless the monster has the
no_confuse
> flag, they get no saving throw unlike confusion spells". Also, I
just
> realized it is possible for the confusion trap to do no damage if the
> monster level is high enough and the player level is low enough.
This
> problem stops when the player gets to a high enough level, but for
confusion
> traps take this damage formula...
>
> n = player level + (player level * player level)/ 12);
> "trap damage" = 3 + randint + n;
>
> ...and subtract (monster level +10). IF that is below 0, the monster
is
> unaffected as well. I think that formula needs changing.

So do I. If clev=12 (earliest for confuse traps), n=24 and trap damage
is from 27-51. So a monster deeper than 900' (level 18) could take no
damage.

Why not just drop the +10? Just subtract mlev instead of (mlev+10) and
it should be ok.

CC
P.S. What about slowing traps - any save against those?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1113775657.592758.147510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jeff - can one get perfect stealth in NPP, same as in V? I forget the
> number, but I think the mechanic is that each plus point of stealth
> halves the chance of monsters waking up, up to something like +25 where
> that chance becomes zero. Since hobbit rogues start with +9 it should
> be possible (with plenty of elvenkind items) to get perfect stealth.
> That would be good.

With 4gai perfect stealth isn't possible, because there is a minimum amount
of "background noise".

>
> Second question: my confusion traps frequently fail, yet your recent
> spoiler post claims that non-immunes get no save. These failures are on
> normal non-immune beasties (orcs, ogres etc.). What's happening? Same
> with slowing traps - do monsters get a save against those?
>
quote from the spoiler..."Note that unless the monster has the no_confuse
flag, they get no saving throw unlike confusion spells". Also, I just
realized it is possible for the confusion trap to do no damage if the
monster level is high enough and the player level is low enough. This
problem stops when the player gets to a high enough level, but for confusion
traps take this damage formula...

n = player level + (player level * player level)/ 12);
"trap damage" = 3 + randint + n;

....and subtract (monster level +10). IF that is below 0, the monster is
unaffected as well. I think that formula needs changing.

--
-Jeff

replace the ".spam"s with comcast.net to reply

Author of NPPAngband. Check it out at:
http://home.comcast.net/~nppangband/

 

[magnate]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Thanks Hugo - so what I want to know is, for NPP, what is the maximum
plus to stealth for race, class and equipment, after which adding more
has no effect? And what is the chance of a monster sleep counter being
reduced, when I hit that maximum?

CC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1113825582.976168.3770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Jeff Greene wrote:
> > "magnate" <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1113775657.592758.147510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>

>
> CC
> P.S. What about slowing traps - any save against those?
>
Just that they may disarm or avoid the trap. In NPP 0.4.1, unique are
immune, but all others who hit the trap are slowed. I changed this for 050
to check for the NO_SLOW flag instead of the unique flag.

-Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 17 Apr 2005 15:07:37 -0700, magnate wrote:

(snip)
>Jeff - can one get perfect stealth in NPP, same as in V?

Hi magnate,

I don't know about NPP, but you can't get perfect stealth in V.

The best possible stealth value is 30 (or rather: after 30, extra
stealth doesn't have any effect). The noise you make each turn is equal
to 2 to the power (30 - stealth). With stealth, that equates 1.

Each time a sleeping monster is processed, a random number from 0
through 1023 is generated: notice. If (notice * notice * notice) is less
than or equal to your noise, the monster's sleep counter is reduced
somewhat (based on your distance from the monster), and if it reaches
zero the monster wakes up.

Even at the minimum noise level of 1, there still is a 2 in 1024 chance
each turn that the monster's sleep counter is reduced.

Best, Hugo
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[magnate]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

So a hobbit rogue, whose base stealth is at +9, only needs to get +9
more stealth to have the minimum possible chance of waking up
monsters??

Hmm. That could do with being extended a little, imho.

CC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 18 Apr 2005 15:12:02 -0700, magnate wrote:

>Thanks Hugo - so what I want to know is, for NPP, what is the maximum
>plus to stealth for race, class and equipment, after which adding more
>has no effect? And what is the chance of a monster sleep counter being
>reduced, when I hit that maximum?
>
>CC

Hi CC,

I just had a quick peek at the source. This is one of the parts of the
game where Jeff made a lot of changes. I didn't take the time to really
get to the bottom of things, so I'm not sure this is 100% correct. Let's
hope that Jeff corrects me if I'm wrong

Unchanged: calculation of effective stealth is still capped at 0 minimum
and 30 maximum.

Changed: noise is removed; instead, NPP uses a base wakeup chance. This
is used as time passes, but also as specific things happen (e.g. hacking
away at an Ogre with your mace increases the total wakeup chance;
resting doesn't). I couldn't really figure out how the various wakeup
chances are massaged into a final number and how that is used to decide
which beasties wake up, but I did find the code where the base wakeup
chance is calculated. The starting value is 2000. For each point of
stealth, this is multiplied by 0.8 - but never lower than 50. This means
that stealth 18 will reduce the base wakeup chance to 50, and extra
stealth won't result in any further reduction.

Also changed: rogues and brigands attempting to steal from sleeping
monsters get a bonus based on stealth. This bonus is uncapped, so the
chance of successful stealing from a sleeping monster will keep
increasing until your stealth is 30.

Best, Hugo
--
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There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 18 Apr 2005 23:55:53 -0700, magnate wrote:

>So a hobbit rogue, whose base stealth is at +9, only needs to get +9
>more stealth to have the minimum possible chance of waking up
>monsters??

Hi CC,

Either that, or I overlooked something in the source.

>Hmm. That could do with being extended a little, imho.

Agreed.

Best, Hugo
--
Your sig line (k) was stolen! (more)
There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)