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This is a REAL dream system!

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January 15, 2001 4:29:35 PM

below is a typical dream system I would build if I were strapped for cash.

this system will save you a bundle, because in the long run aggravation and down time will in fact cost YOU!

building this system = 991.00
Relaxing, sleeping, dreaming - priceless!


MS-694D VIA 694X = 140
Pentium® III 733x2= 278
goldenorb x2= 35
IbM ultra ata/100 = 149
Nic netgear 10/100 = 22
dvd = 85
GLADIAC MX 32MB AGP GEFORCE2 MX GTS SDR RETAIL = 114
256mb = 83
Atx case w/300 pwr = 55
mouse/keyboard = 30

total = 991.00
tom did not factor in taxes, accesories or aggravation, so neither will I.

----------------------------
'cause 2 is better than one.

More about : real dream system

January 15, 2001 7:44:36 PM

Nice system indeed... (for a good price.)

but "agrivation"? I thought it was quite simple putting together my computer. No agrivation. (Of course I've done it a bazillion times before). :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 15, 2001 7:58:20 PM

Pretty nice system... if they only they had a dual athalon board it would be the -ish. But my single 900 works quite well too ;) .
-Loki
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a b à CPUs
January 15, 2001 7:59:31 PM

VIA? ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH!
(taking my heart medication, breathing, breathing, ok, I think I'll hold my tongue on this one)

Suicide is painless...........
January 15, 2001 8:10:02 PM

I was trying not to turn this into an Intel vs. AMD fight or AMDMeltdown vs. Grizely1 .................
January 15, 2001 8:11:49 PM

try to get a 440bx mobo still the best.

note if there was Intel athlon chipset i would first to buy it. well the i820 and i840 where a bust but the i815 +440bx are the best to say

Cel 533 - 256mb sdram
15gb HD - ati radeon 32mb ddr (200/200)
SB live! mp3+ - win98 Beos
January 15, 2001 9:53:15 PM

1st - for the same price of your p3, you could probably get a tbird 900

2nd - hope ur running win2k with multithread software cuz ur other cpu will just be heating ur room..
January 15, 2001 9:54:42 PM

uhh two 733s aren't 280
January 15, 2001 10:16:09 PM

VP6 is also a good dual CPU mobo. The raid 0, 1, 0+1 is also a very nice feature.

AMD fans can only dream about SMP =P

667 is better price/performance CPU that overclocks 800+ Mhz easy with one hell of a FSB 150Mhz +


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by FUGGER on 01/15/01 07:17 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 15, 2001 10:19:42 PM

Uhhh actually we're gonna have it in 1 month (even less i think) :wink:
January 15, 2001 10:21:39 PM

I'm more excited about the Duron being offered in laptops.
January 15, 2001 10:22:56 PM

Naw, I already have a laptop and i doubt i'll get anotherone within 2 years. but i AM going to get Dual Palomino then Dual SledgeHammer's in the future :smile:
January 15, 2001 10:39:20 PM

"wont be good enough for gamers"? Are you high or what? What is better, 1 or 2? Some games take advantange of SMP (like quake 3).
January 15, 2001 11:03:54 PM

your right, I went back to sharky's weekly cpu price chart and it seems that I was wrong, the price for two 733mhz is $278 not $280 sorry if I've misled anyone.
January 15, 2001 11:09:40 PM

LOL you know what I meant
January 15, 2001 11:11:55 PM

A 733 p3 is $160

(do the math)
January 16, 2001 12:01:58 AM

also, im not sure how much you can trust $83 cheapo ram, better off just to get crucial or beter yet, mushkin
Also, you can get a Tbird <b>950</b> for the price of the p3 733

If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
January 16, 2001 12:21:44 AM

sCREW THE 950, get the 1GHz for 20 more bucks
January 16, 2001 12:35:37 AM

cheapest p3 733 is listed at 154 x 2 = 308. Tom is using pricewatch as a priceguideline not Bubba's back alley "lets make a deal". Also, you failed to include the shipping charges as well take note that an athlon 800 lists for 99 bucks on pricewatch + 10 shipping. You want to make price comparisons use the same formula he used and include all the cost.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
January 16, 2001 12:43:52 AM

yeah, well I hear alot of good thing about the MSI boards and I guess via chipsets "clicked" with it. It's actually a nice board for small servers and multimedia.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 16, 2001 1:41:52 AM

Too bad your graphics card is barely half of Tom's (MX vs GTS), since both of these machines would be used for one main reason... GAMING.

And if you were doing spreadsheets, you wouldn't need an Athlon 800 OR dual P3s.
January 16, 2001 4:01:41 AM

he had to skimp somewhere to compete price wise not the 100+ dollar reduction in video card....this is what you have to do if you want to go with intel. Get a big kick out of the multi processor thing too......not any help unless you have multiprocessor support OS and applications.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 16, 2001 4:13:12 AM

Apparently you subscribe to the "more is better" axiom. Even best case scenario, when you're running an app. that can take advantage of the second processor, you might get a 30% improvement in speed. You can put together a 1GHz Athlon machine for less money that will spank your dual 733's in almost everything. But, if you must have two......
January 16, 2001 4:20:18 AM

Well, to be fair if he is running win2k and uses photoshop or 3dstudiomax alot ( which I highly doubt) he will get a nice performance increase with multiprocessors. However, for gaming the second processor will just be sitting there doing next to nothing. You do have to wonder about HIS dream system I find it rather odd that he choose a via chipset baord when he could have opted for a better performing I815e. Also, his choice of a nic was rather pathetic. Then he also choose one of the worst performing heatsink/fans available.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
January 16, 2001 4:49:15 AM

if its a workstation (and with 2 cpus why wouldnt you use it as one?) go ahead and get a GW FOP 38, loud but drains heat like a heat drainer machine

If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
January 16, 2001 5:07:57 AM

where are the benchmarks? I'm running NT4, and Linux, I also run very expensive 3d applications where both cpu's work together.

All these apps take advantage of smp, which gives me much more stability.

You'll see what I mean when you get your dual amd system(if you can afford it!)

'cause deuce is better than uno!
January 16, 2001 5:40:46 AM

Would that be very expensive 3d apps or did you mean very intensive 3d apps? Which apps are you running? Why the downgrade to the mx card instead of the gts card Tom used in his system? After all you are running expensive (lol) 3d apps! If the net gain of the smp is 20% would you not be better served by using a faster processor ( even if it is intel) for the same cost? This would benefit all apps not just a select few. Tom choose to build a system that would be geared for the best performance across many platforms while you choose for comparison a machine geared only towards a select few. Then to try to make it price competitive you choose a crapola heatsink, a crapola nic card, downgraded your video card by over 100 bucks and even misquoted the price you will need to pay on the processors you intend to run not to mention you failed to add shipping charges. Furthermore I have never heard of smp increasing stability, performance perhaps but not stability. And how pray tell if you are running these intensive 3d apps would you choose the mx card?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
January 16, 2001 1:55:41 PM

I suggest you read the post again, I believe the I started with something "If I were strapped for cash"

I'm not strapped for cash, I run video cards that you probably never heard of!

if your not running a dual system, NT, 2000, linux, or beos and know nothing about it then "shut it, mate!"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 16, 2001 2:28:53 PM

I agree that for what you do you can't beat SMP , CPU intensive APPS on NT/2000, although I would like to say (not to you cos I hope you already know) that 2x PIII500 is slower than 1x PIII1ghz/Athlon 1ghz..... but 2x 1ghz is not yet beaten.....
however ,if I can remember correctly the use of SMP cost so much performance in Q3 it is hardly worth it and of course it is one of the few games that does currently take advantage of this. so horses for courses I would say

M

one of the first UK T-Bird users....
January 16, 2001 4:30:32 PM

What did you meaned by "Dream system" ? did you saw it in your dream ?
That explains why the price you write is half of what it in reality (and the "I run video cards that you probably never heard of!").


All i can offer you is the truth. Nothing more.
January 16, 2001 6:26:45 PM

Yeah, I saw it in one of my dreams.

Question is: are you as dumb as your sig?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AmdMeltdown on 01/16/01 03:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 16, 2001 9:54:03 PM

ouch, thats gotta hurt

If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
January 16, 2001 10:33:09 PM

Yeah yeah yeah, running those expensive 3d programs with those video cards I never even heard of with those POS golden orbs and a lousy mx.You almost have me believing you may actually now what you are talking about. Furthermore any gain you may have achieved by running those dual cpu's was completely lost and then some by getting that video card. So, even with those dual cpu's Tom's system would outperform yours even in those expensive 3d apps.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
January 16, 2001 10:40:51 PM

how do you figure?

If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
January 16, 2001 10:56:54 PM

Quite simple actually The mx has half the data path as the gts this cuts deeply into its performance when running the apps that amdmeltdown states he designed his system for. As important if not more so for running these apps is the video card. smp helps yes but the video card is as if not more so important. Don't get me wrong the Mx is still a nice gaming card but certainly nothing any serious graphics designer would consider. First of all, the post starts out as "a real dream system" which implies that his system would outperform the one in Tom's reveiw. After juggling some questionable prices and neglecting shipping charges he comes to a price very close to Tom's. After several posts that point out that smp is only usefull on os's that support it and only in certain apps he makes the statement that is of course what he does. I am questioning ineffect if that is indeed what he does than would not Tom's system with a better video card and slightly higher processor clock outperform his system even in 3d intensive apps?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
January 16, 2001 11:29:38 PM

Ncognito will be able to run photshop at 131 FPS and meldown will only be able to hit 128 FPS. poor poor meltdown and his slower photoshop FPS.

3D professionals usually go for the Glint OpenGL cards for the hardcore 3D graphic apps (doesnt fit into toms budget).

In 2D graphic apps MX card will deliver quality and speed for any professional.

AMD users fail to understand you are specing a DUAL CPU machine. something AMD cannot touch at this time. and the MX video card is good enough on that "budget system"

Tom did not list cost per part nor added shipping charges.
Forget about sales tax, im sure most of the parts tom got were from the same state where he purchased.
January 17, 2001 12:46:45 AM

Err ok now we are measuring photoshop in frames per second?????

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
January 17, 2001 12:55:33 AM

Quote: "Tom did not list cost per part" did you read the same article????? Or is reading beyond your abilities? please refer to this page:

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/01q1/010115/pcsystem-...

Hmmm clearly Tom did in fact list his parts costs.

Furthermore please feel free to do a search on pricewatch for these items and check there prices you will find them listed cheaper than what Tom did, however when you add shipping then whala...whadda know go figure.......

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 17, 2001 7:01:07 AM

Pentium Pro (first P6 core CPU) were modified and then called Pentium II.
Then it was called Xeon.
January 17, 2001 7:32:27 AM

>>Ncognito will be able to run photshop at 131 FPS and meldown will only be able to hit 128 FPS. poor poor meltdown and his slower photoshop FPS.<<
WHAT?????
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 17, 2001 8:29:29 AM

Here is a dream system that I would get if I wasn't strapped for cash...
Asus P4T
P4 1.5GHz oc @ 2GHz
2GB RDRAM
3DLabs Wildcat II 128MB DDR GPU
Intel EtherExpress Gigabit 64bit PCI NIC
Adaptec 4channel 3400S 64MB SO-DIMM RAID Ultra160 64 bit PCI Controller
Pinnacle PCTV Pro/DV
Sigma Designs Hollywood Plus
Creative SB Live! Platinum 5.1
Creative DTT3500 5.1 Theatre
(2) 73.4 GB Cheetah 2.9 ms 15,000RPM 16mb cache each, Ultra 160
LS-120 SCSI Floppy
Pioneer 2x SCSI DVD-RW/CD-RW (available on new macs an compaqs)
Pioneer 16x SCSI DVD
NEC 21" LCD Flat Panel
Enlight 7246 Chassis
Cost = My arms, my legs, my head, and whatever is left.


_______________________________________________________
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people."
January 17, 2001 10:45:27 AM

That aint no dream system. P4 sucks and 2 GB of RDRAM doesn't do crap over 512.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 17, 2001 11:13:56 AM

He did say dream... :) 

M

one of the first UK T-Bird users....
January 17, 2001 2:41:43 PM

whoa, I did not know about the newest scsi's! 15,000rpm, 2.9ms.

I'm there!
January 17, 2001 3:50:12 PM

What ,the truth hurts? You out of jokes about "AMD puppies" ?


All i can offer you is the truth. Nothing more.
January 17, 2001 6:56:38 PM

Yes there are new drives. But the 15000rpm 2.9ms drives only go up to 18.9 GB (there is no 73GB 15k rpm drive yet.)
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 17, 2001 7:25:51 PM

iwould only change three things on your dream machine.
1) mb....tba
2) dual sledgehammers
3) ddr

p.s. anyone know where i can mortgage my family?
January 17, 2001 8:11:07 PM

Ncognito, thanks for link for pricing, not sure how I missed it when i was looking for it.
I do see were tom leaves off tax and shipping, no biggie tho

Gateway is offering 933Mhz P3 w/ i815 mobo for $995 granted it doesnt have the Geforce2 GTS, but it does come with a 17" monitor.

The AMD 950 is 100 bucks more for basicly same build. mobo is um, less than desireable.

NO, I would not buy from Gateway.

And reguarding the FPS in Photoshop. I was joking my point is FPS in 2D apps is pointless and the MX card is good choice for that and almost all apps. I like the MX card for crap that I do. I don't play quake but MX still does extreamly well on a budget. I like the FSAA
January 18, 2001 12:49:04 AM

good lord now you are throwing a gateway at us? Thought we were building a dream system? Well whatever it takes you P-heads

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
!