TheAntipop
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are you refering to the AthlonC or the Palomino (next gen athlon)? The AthlonC is out im pretty sure
If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
mpjesse
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At the same clock speed it will. However- the palomino is only going to carry AMD so far. In the long run, the P4 is much more scalable than the Athlon. AMD has got to come up with something before the end of the year other than the Palomino.
-MP Jesse
-MP Jesse
People people its pure and simple.
Both approaches as to porcessor development hev theierr advantages and disadvantages.
Amd
1) Is clock per clock faster right now if you compare the thunderbirds and the p4/p3
2) Also is cheaper in price /performance
3) Has the het problem when heatsink not installed properly the cpu is dead within sec. (this is negated by most new socket a mobo`s who outamatically shut down in case of temp. rise)
4) May! be at its development end soon i.e. cant go much faster (mhz) with current technology.
Intel
1) Has the better name and market share.
2) Flaws aree more easily overlooked by customers.
3) Right now the hardware is ahead of the sofware and due to design this means the performance is not top notch with current applications, but is possibly top notch in optimized app.
4) There is more room for faster CPU development (theoretically)
5) It is very expensive (prices are dropping rapidly thow)
I do know this is by no means a complete list of advantages / disadvantages of either one of the cpu`s. It is clear that botyh compagnies just have chosen a different direction right now.
We just have to wait and see what compagny will get the beter hand in the years to come. Competition is stiff for both right now and thats the way it should be!
my 6 dolllars
Hey man i dont know .. i just think i do !!
Both approaches as to porcessor development hev theierr advantages and disadvantages.
Amd
1) Is clock per clock faster right now if you compare the thunderbirds and the p4/p3
2) Also is cheaper in price /performance
3) Has the het problem when heatsink not installed properly the cpu is dead within sec. (this is negated by most new socket a mobo`s who outamatically shut down in case of temp. rise)
4) May! be at its development end soon i.e. cant go much faster (mhz) with current technology.
Intel
1) Has the better name and market share.
2) Flaws aree more easily overlooked by customers.
3) Right now the hardware is ahead of the sofware and due to design this means the performance is not top notch with current applications, but is possibly top notch in optimized app.
4) There is more room for faster CPU development (theoretically)
5) It is very expensive (prices are dropping rapidly thow)
I do know this is by no means a complete list of advantages / disadvantages of either one of the cpu`s. It is clear that botyh compagnies just have chosen a different direction right now.
We just have to wait and see what compagny will get the beter hand in the years to come. Competition is stiff for both right now and thats the way it should be!
my 6 dolllars
Hey man i dont know .. i just think i do !!
I agree , the harder the competition the better deal we get ....
M
one of the first UK T-Bird users....
M
one of the first UK T-Bird users....
mpjesse
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Not really- it just depends on the promise of the optimizations. Look at Flask- an SSE2 version was created in no time. Almost every driver and game is already SSE optimized and was a long time ago. Don't forget that Intel gives out engineering samples of these chips to companies WAY before we ever get them- giving companies like Nvidia lots of time to optimize their drivers. Even before the "new" optimized chip hits. I can tell you the DoD had samples of the P4 a long long time ago and got one of the first Merced's/Itanium's from Intel.
-MP Jesse
-MP Jesse
so if the p4 was out that long ago for testing shouldn't it have been bug checked yet? Wouldnt' they already know not to release it? The simple fact is that intel f'd up. They released a chip that was not ready to be released yet, they were trying to undercut their competition by using their already built name then they messed up big time and hurt their name.
-=-Sean-=-
-=-Sean-=-
oK kiddie, lets read the article on toms main page. Athlon will do 3d rendering among other things better but Pentium does still have somewhat of a lead in some other catagories. I run an athlon system and like it a lot. But I have the balls to admit intel does some things better. It's a trade off. You will learn about trade offs someday in school. Good luck~
-=-Sean-=-
-=-Sean-=-
TheAntipop
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well, quite simply it wont be. remember intel will be replacing their current p4 with a different socket design later THIS YEAR? who would by a p4 now? you have about 6 months of upgradability before you have to get a new mobo.
If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
mpjesse
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I'm not trying to excuse Intel for the crappy performance of the P4. I'm just saying it's been out for a while and ppl have had time to optimize for SSE2. Have you seen the original design of the P4? It was awesome. I think Intel just plain screwed up. They should have stuck to something more similar to the original plans for the P4.
-MP Jesse
-MP Jesse
Thats true but remember that's not far from what AMD did with the Athlon.....
M
one of the first UK T-Bird users....
M
one of the first UK T-Bird users....
mpjesse
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He's right- comparitively speaking in the pure power sense the Athlon is still more powerful than any P4 at any clockspeed. I'm talking about the FPU- which is one of the most powerful part of the CPU.
-MP Jesse
PS, try to be a little more respectful of peoples thoughts and opinions. calling someone a "kiddie" is a little immature.
-MP Jesse
PS, try to be a little more respectful of peoples thoughts and opinions. calling someone a "kiddie" is a little immature.
slvr_phoenix
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I haven't heard of any bugs in the P4. It just has a castrated FPU. That's not a bug, it's a design decision. Personally, I think it was a bad one. I think Intel should have just gone with the larger die size since they're already planning on bailing on the P4 for a better design anyway. But who says management ever listents to the engineers?
I'm sure that with the .13 Micron version Intel will be able to fix that. I just hope that they actually do fix that. In any event it's almost assured that they eventually will make a chip based on the P4 but with a good FPU. And that's all that's holding Intel chips back from being as good as AMD chips.
Either way though, the P4 based line has more room to grow than anything AMD has at the moment. Especially when Intel goes to a socket with more pins. And AMD is going to have to do some serious work if they want to design a chip that has as much of a future.
Hopefully they will. It's been nice to see the competition between AMD and Intel. I hope it goes on for years to come.
And if AMD doesn't put a freaking thermal protection in their chips soon, I'm going to start thinking AMD doesn't care about their customers any more than Intel does (doesn't). Personally, to me it's worth paying double the price just to know that my CPU won't fry if my heat sink loosens a little or something when I move my computer. I want that assurance that three years from now my computer will still be working without having needed any replacement parts.
Either way though, whether you have an Intel chip or an AMD chip, at least it isn't a Macintosh.
And for anyone who doesn't think software optimizations are going to catch on, just remember a few years ago how many software titles REQUIRED a Pentium 166 just because of MMX. Good optimizations get accepted fast. And when Intel and AMD both plan on making chips using SSE2, software will adopt that fast enough to make your head spin.
My only real question is how well will AMD's Hammer run SSE2 optimized software compared to Intel's P4 replacement? (Since neither chip exists yet, I think it's a fair enough thing to wonder about.)
I think maybe then we can finally decide which company can actually design the better chip. Until then though the two chips are just so different it's really unfair to make any judgements other than price.
- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.
I'm sure that with the .13 Micron version Intel will be able to fix that. I just hope that they actually do fix that. In any event it's almost assured that they eventually will make a chip based on the P4 but with a good FPU. And that's all that's holding Intel chips back from being as good as AMD chips.
Either way though, the P4 based line has more room to grow than anything AMD has at the moment. Especially when Intel goes to a socket with more pins. And AMD is going to have to do some serious work if they want to design a chip that has as much of a future.
Hopefully they will. It's been nice to see the competition between AMD and Intel. I hope it goes on for years to come.
And if AMD doesn't put a freaking thermal protection in their chips soon, I'm going to start thinking AMD doesn't care about their customers any more than Intel does (doesn't). Personally, to me it's worth paying double the price just to know that my CPU won't fry if my heat sink loosens a little or something when I move my computer. I want that assurance that three years from now my computer will still be working without having needed any replacement parts.
Either way though, whether you have an Intel chip or an AMD chip, at least it isn't a Macintosh.
And for anyone who doesn't think software optimizations are going to catch on, just remember a few years ago how many software titles REQUIRED a Pentium 166 just because of MMX. Good optimizations get accepted fast. And when Intel and AMD both plan on making chips using SSE2, software will adopt that fast enough to make your head spin.
My only real question is how well will AMD's Hammer run SSE2 optimized software compared to Intel's P4 replacement? (Since neither chip exists yet, I think it's a fair enough thing to wonder about.)
I think maybe then we can finally decide which company can actually design the better chip. Until then though the two chips are just so different it's really unfair to make any judgements other than price.
- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.
Intel cannot rely on un-optimized code for their performance of the Pentium 4. What they are relying on right now is the ignorance of the general public to only b wanting the fastest CPU. It is funny that even their own P3 will outperform the P4 on some tests. The P3 will outperform all other previous Intel CPUs running any software. AMD will do the same, as they not need to rely on optimized code, just good designs.
slvr_phoenix
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Yes yes, the current P4 seems to suck.
Granted, when running optimized code it doesn't suck anymore, but you don't want to hear that.
But what about when Intel makes a chip based on the P4 but with two FPUs instead of one? Then it'll run such math intensive code faster. Do you really think Intel will go for long without fixing that when it was in the original design specs to have a second FPU in the first place and they only took one out because they wanted a smaller die size?
What will be your excuse for AMD when Intel releases a new chip based on the P4 but with a better FPU? Do you have one thought out already? Or will you just jump over to Intel's side like a mindless sheep?
My point is not that either AMD or Intel is better. It is that to think for one's self instead of just going with the flow is better. Unless you're a lemming.
There are people who believe in Intel for a reason. That reason is that for years they have provided the fastest and most stable CPU of all of their competition. And that CPU has been the foudnation of the fastest and most reliable entire system for years. Following them for that reason is not ignorance, it's intelligence. Ignorance is believing that AMD is better and will always be better than Intel just because of one bad year for Intel.
Ignorance is thinking that AMD cares more about it's customers than Intel does when AMD doesn't even put thermal protection in their CPUs. And when Intel has proven that they will replace defective products with more expensive products paying for it out of their own pocket just to keep their customers happy.
There are people who buy AMD. They do it because it's cheap and it's fast. There are people who buy Intel. They do it because they know they can trust Intel and Intel based systems, and that assurance is worth the extra price.
Is either customer wrong for doing so? No. Is either customer ignorant for making their choice? No. The only ignorant people are the ones who put other people down without first trying to see things from their point of view.
- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.
Granted, when running optimized code it doesn't suck anymore, but you don't want to hear that.
But what about when Intel makes a chip based on the P4 but with two FPUs instead of one? Then it'll run such math intensive code faster. Do you really think Intel will go for long without fixing that when it was in the original design specs to have a second FPU in the first place and they only took one out because they wanted a smaller die size?
What will be your excuse for AMD when Intel releases a new chip based on the P4 but with a better FPU? Do you have one thought out already? Or will you just jump over to Intel's side like a mindless sheep?
My point is not that either AMD or Intel is better. It is that to think for one's self instead of just going with the flow is better. Unless you're a lemming.
There are people who believe in Intel for a reason. That reason is that for years they have provided the fastest and most stable CPU of all of their competition. And that CPU has been the foudnation of the fastest and most reliable entire system for years. Following them for that reason is not ignorance, it's intelligence. Ignorance is believing that AMD is better and will always be better than Intel just because of one bad year for Intel.
Ignorance is thinking that AMD cares more about it's customers than Intel does when AMD doesn't even put thermal protection in their CPUs. And when Intel has proven that they will replace defective products with more expensive products paying for it out of their own pocket just to keep their customers happy.
There are people who buy AMD. They do it because it's cheap and it's fast. There are people who buy Intel. They do it because they know they can trust Intel and Intel based systems, and that assurance is worth the extra price.
Is either customer wrong for doing so? No. Is either customer ignorant for making their choice? No. The only ignorant people are the ones who put other people down without first trying to see things from their point of view.
- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.
TheAntipop
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the palomino WILL have thermal protection (supposedly beating out anything Intel has currently) and will reportedly run without a fan on the heatsink at decent temperatures. while this is kind of a rumor right now, AMD has been hinting at this kind of thermal performance. and I am not really sure what you are talking about with the assurance thing. I have had two AMD chips which have been running solid for over 2 years and a third which is overclocked and stable and cool as hell. people are not "mindless sheep", they just want the best price
erformance ratio possible, so if Intel comes out with something better, yes they will go with Intel, thats the way market economies work bud, take it or leave it
If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
erformance ratio possible, so if Intel comes out with something better, yes they will go with Intel, thats the way market economies work bud, take it or leave itIf at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
AmdMELTDOWN
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hey, if amd dual solution has thermo protection and runs cool like in the rumor you just spat out then ppl will serious consider it, but if it is still sitting on a pile of horse sh*t a/k/a via then let all the gamers and slackers buy them. 'cause I ain't touching that!
- Amd Helpdesk -
- Amd Helpdesk -
According to AMD's Q4 conference call the Palomino will be announced this quarter and available in April. AMD is being very vague about how much headroom the Palomino has, saying only they expect 1.7 GHz in the second half and not to hit 2 GHz until Clawhammer in Q1 2001. I'm guessing AMD is trying not to escalate a clock speed war, which they can't win, by revealing the true potential of the Palomino. I would guess that if needed, AMD can probably push it to 1.8-1.9 GHz. At .13 micron the Athlon will probably make it well beyond 2.5 GHz.
tfbww
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You wouldn't touch it if it was God's gift to hardware. You have no rational thoughts; you can't get out of the way of your bias. Why do you have enough energy to hate a computer component? It would be pretty funny actually if we all didn't have to wade through your inane posts.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by tfbww on 01/20/01 10:40 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by tfbww on 01/20/01 10:40 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
TheAntipop
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I just have a question that maybe someone can answer for me: did the 1.13ghz P3 EVER come out? Or did they finally give up on it?
Also, have they fixed the P4 bug yet?
If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
Also, have they fixed the P4 bug yet?
If at first you don't succede, skydiving isn't for you.
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = Idiot Outside
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