A Noob Question......

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Greetings All,

I am new to this group and was very happy to find Angband. It
reminded me of when I used to play Moria when it was around (yes, I am
a tad dated ;o) and I am enjoying reading about others' experiences
here. It has been a while so I don't remember too well if Moria did
this or not and I didn't find the answer in the FAQ, or I missed it,
but here goes:

I am playing a 3rd lvl ranger. It will be 20 more lvls till he can
cast "Identify" and then at a 87% failure rate (17 Int). So, I was
wondering, in the case of potions and scrolls, mebey wands and such:
If Star2 finds "A gray potion" and drinks it (assuming it dosed't kill
him outright) and say it was a "cure light wounds", the next time he
finds a gray potion, will it tell him "pick up gray potion of cure
light wounds?" or will it still just be "a gray potion? I.E. will
drinking it ID it?

Also, if he successfully reads a scroll "ABCDEF" and his weapon glows
for a moment (a giveaway I know) will the next scroll "ABCDEF" be
auto-IDed? Side note: if one scroll is XYZ and is of slaying red
worms, are all scrolls of red worm slaying labeled XYZ or once a
scroll/potion is IDed it just tells the name (what it does?)

I suppose the same might be asked of rods/staves/wands/etc.

Just thought I'd ask. ;>

Thanks in advance!

Paul C. Heisner
******************************************************
My 3rd lvl Ranger got his ass kicked by a *Novice* warrior?
What's up with *that*?!?
******************************************************

 

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Paul & Victoria Heisner wrote:
[snip]

All wands, rods, potions, scrolls, rings, amulets, or staves of a
certain type are known by the character once one of them is. Quaff a
"green gloopy" potion, learn it's resist cold, and all "green gloopy"
potions are and will identify as potions of resist cold for the rest of
the game.

Some stuff can benefit from further identifying however. A wand of fire
bolts or staff of perception will be known on sight once you've
identified one, but you won't know how many charges each one has without
identifying it. Likewise, once you've seen one ring of strength, you'll
know which rings are rings of strength, but without identifying (or
testing) them you won't know if they raise or lower strength, or by how
much.

Also, by the time you reach level 23 you will probably have raised your
Int at least a point or two, if you're diligent about finding useful
stat potions in the black market and at accumulating wealth.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-05-11 05:36:51, Paul & Victoria Heisner <pheisner@shoreham.net> wrote:

> So, I was
> wondering, in the case of potions and scrolls, mebey wands and such:
> If Star2 finds "A gray potion" and drinks it (assuming it dosed't kill
> him outright) and say it was a "cure light wounds", the next time he
> finds a gray potion, will it tell him "pick up gray potion of cure
> light wounds?" or will it still just be "a gray potion? I.E. will
> drinking it ID it?

Only in case it's effect is "obvious", meaning that you would be able to tell
which potion it is yourself if you would be a character used to different
types of potions.
If, for example, you drink this potion but you were already at full health, it
will not be automatically IDed but, all other gray potions you get before you
manage to actually identify the potion, will be marked as {tried}, telling u've
already quaffed it at least once.
Usually it's the best way to quaff all potions and read all scrolls in the
beginning game (in Vanilla, until 500'-600', because at this depth bad potions
are more likely to occur, for example Lose Memories, Stat-losing potions etc. I
guess you're a Vanilla player, so I now mainly speak about it) Sometimes potions
and scrolls have bad effects, but at beginning game very seldom anything mortal.
If you sell potions and scrolls you nearly always lose something expensive and
really good by mistake just because you sold it for 6 or so gold pieces. (I once
found a scroll of *Remove Curse* at 50' in Vanilla and sold it for 6 gold
pieces... and I've done even worse things with weapons and like, but that's not
the case now. I know some folks use the selling way, but I prefer just trying
them and IDing them from those dangerous levels on.) In general, you can afford
to sell one potion or scroll if you've got many of them; also you can sell
potions and scrolls found on boring levels since they, if not dropped by
monsters, would affect the feeling if much out of depth.

>
> Also, if he successfully reads a scroll "ABCDEF" and his weapon glows
> for a moment (a giveaway I know) will the next scroll "ABCDEF" be
> auto-IDed?

A case similar to potions. It will be auto-IDed if it has an obvious effect
(there are, however, some strange cases there.) It is mainly with scrolls that
{tried} message occurs, mostly because of many different Locating scrolls and
also because of Trap Creation, which will not have an effect if read without no
empty adjacent square.
(Of course {tried} is pretty ordinary a message with potions, wands, rods and
staves as well)

> Side note: if one scroll is XYZ and is of slaying red
> worms, are all scrolls of red worm slaying labeled XYZ or once a
> scroll/potion is IDed it just tells the name (what it does?)

Depends on the variant I think (if I understood u right, unsure about it). In
Vanilla it does show the XYZ but in, for example, ToME it does not.

> I suppose the same might be asked of rods/staves/wands/etc.
>

The same depends on them. Any item can be given a {tried} message but also can
be IDed by trying. And, most important, that's exactly the way these 3 types of
items should be identified in. No scrolls should be wasted on them. (Of course
if you have the spell or prayer it doesn't matter any more. Most of my
experience is with warriors, so that's my main way of thinking.)

btw if u're a noob there's something else u may not know. If you happen to come
across Haradekket it's nearly always good to wield it. I like it really much,
it's a super-good scimitar... of course nothing in comparison to, for example,
Ringil...

Ojomax

 

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"Paul & Victoria Heisner" <pheisner@shoreham.net> schrieb...

> If Star2 finds "A gray potion" and drinks it (assuming it dosed't kill
> him outright) and say it was a "cure light wounds", the next time he
> finds a gray potion, will it tell him "pick up gray potion of cure
> light wounds?" or will it still just be "a gray potion? I.E. will
> drinking it ID it?

Yes, if drinking it has an obvious effect.
If he drinks it while at full health, it won't be identified.

Best way to identify early potions and scrolls is to sell them.
The shopkeeper will id them for you, and you will know what it is
when you find it again.
Some people only sell items if they have two of the same kind,
to avoid selling a great rare item.

After a while, you will use scrolls of identify and staffs of
perception to id things.

> Side note: if one scroll is XYZ and is of slaying red
> worms, are all scrolls of red worm slaying labeled XYZ or once a
> scroll/potion is IDed it just tells the name (what it does?)

Depends on your option settings ('use flavour').
All scrolls of slay red worms have the same name (say xyz).
After you managed to id one, they are all either
scroll labeled 'xyz' of slay red wormy, or just
scroll of slay red worms.

Werner.

 

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Ojomax schrieb:
> Usually it's the best way to quaff all potions and read all
scrolls in the
> beginning game (in Vanilla, until 500'-600', because at this depth
bad potions
> are more likely to occur, for example Lose Memories, Stat-losing
potions etc. I
> guess you're a Vanilla player, so I now mainly speak about it)
Sometimes potions
> and scrolls have bad effects, but at beginning game very seldom
anything mortal.

Though it my be deadly for a new charakter to read a "summon monster"
scroll (which I did the other day ;-) ).

 

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Paul & Victoria Heisner schrieb:
> Greetings All,
>
> I am new to this group and was very happy to find Angband. It
> reminded me of when I used to play Moria when it was around (yes, I
am
> a tad dated ;o) and I am enjoying reading about others' experiences
> here. It has been a while so I don't remember too well if Moria did
> this or not and I didn't find the answer in the FAQ, or I missed it,
> but here goes:

I also used to play Moria on my Amiga (that's really a long time ago
;-) ). The Amiga version had at that time graphics and menus which made
it easier to learn for newbies.
I never managed to get Moria work with the Amiga UAE-Emulator. I then
discovered Angband a couple of years ago and played sometimes. It gets
even better with every new version an I'm quite happy with it.

> I am playing a 3rd lvl ranger.

You should rely very much on a good bow. The ranger will get extra
shots with a bow while increasing in level. Buy (or find) a lot of
arrows and enchant both your weapon and ammunition with "enchant weapon
to hit/dam" scrolls. Than you can weaken even hard enemies from
distance.

>It will be 20 more lvls till he can
> cast "Identify" and then at a 87% failure rate (17 Int)

The failure rate will decrease with ascending level and you can also
use staffs, rods and scrolls to identify items.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

That's what I usually do, but once I've found a potion of experience at
350' or so. I was lucky to identify that one using a scroll! ;-)
Out-of-depth-items aren't that rare, I think. I also found a bronze
dragon scalemail at 350', just lying around (waiting for lucky me :-D ).

 

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Mondkalb wrote:
> That's what I usually do, but once I've found a potion of experience at
> 350' or so. I was lucky to identify that one using a scroll! ;-)
> Out-of-depth-items aren't that rare, I think. I also found a bronze
> dragon scalemail at 350', just lying around (waiting for lucky me :-D ).
>

The only shorts-changer I've ever had was a !oAugmentation at 500'. As
you can guess, the RNG claimed that character soon afterwords.

 

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"Mondkalb" <seoman_mondkalb@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115911034.363588.168900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ojomax schrieb:
> > Usually it's the best way to quaff all potions and read all
> scrolls in the
> > beginning game (in Vanilla, until 500'-600', because at this depth
> bad potions
> > are more likely to occur, for example Lose Memories, Stat-losing
> potions etc. I
> > guess you're a Vanilla player, so I now mainly speak about it)
> Sometimes potions
> > and scrolls have bad effects, but at beginning game very seldom
> anything mortal.
>
> Though it my be deadly for a new charakter to read a "summon
monster"
> scroll (which I did the other day ;-) )

The best way to identify potions is as follows:

Let them remain unknown until you have 2 or more of any given type.

Then sell one or more of a shop to a shop that buys potions.

The odds against getting, say, TWO of the same kind of stat potions or
experience potions out of depth are very small. If you've gotten two
of the same kind, chances are, they're "shallow" potions: so, if you
sell an unidentified one, the chances are you're selling a cheap one.

In fact the worst thing that can happen is if you end up selling a
Potion of Speed or Berserk Strength - something that will cost you
maybe a couple of hundred gold pieces if you want to buy it back, and
in any case the potions are common. Besides, you get to bilk the
shopkeepers out of a lot of money for really worthless potions.

Jonathan.

 

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"Mondkalb" <seoman_mondkalb@yahoo.com> schrieb...

> Though it my be deadly for a new charakter to read a "summon monster"
> scroll (which I did the other day ;-) ).

Only read unknown scrolls when you are standing on a stairway
in a corridor. You might still get killed if a strong unique
appears, but in most cases, you can escape if someting too strong
shows up.

Werner.

 

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Mondkalb wrote:
> Though it my be deadly for a new charakter to read a "summon monster"
> scroll (which I did the other day ;-) ).

I did that once and got Grip AND Fang. With a mage. AND LIVED TO TELL
THE TALE. (Phase door, some missiles and spells, had gained a couple
levels, and some other luck factored in -- probably terrain -- upshot: I
killed them both and got another level out of it.)

Subsequently, I never read-ID or quaff-ID in *bands (Sang may become an
exception when I get around to trying it). I sell-ID anything I found
more than one of until I no longer need to be concerned about conserving
ID, and then I ID anything unique. Usually find a stat potion and at
least one fairly deep scroll in my home at this point.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

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Mondkalb wrote:
> That's what I usually do, but once I've found a potion of experience at
> 350' or so. I was lucky to identify that one using a scroll! ;-)
> Out-of-depth-items aren't that rare, I think. I also found a bronze
> dragon scalemail at 350', just lying around (waiting for lucky me :-D ).

Any specific item will be quite rare out of depth. But the odds of
getting *some* seriously out of depth item by 500' are quite good. In
retrospect, the chances of the specific item you found seem
astronomically small, but added up over all the other possible out of
depth items, the chances of getting one of them weren't too shabby.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

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Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> Mondkalb wrote:
> > Though it my be deadly for a new charakter to read a "summon monster"
> > scroll (which I did the other day ;-) ).
>
> I did that once and got Grip AND Fang. With a mage. AND LIVED TO TELL
> THE TALE. (Phase door, some missiles and spells, had gained a couple
> levels, and some other luck factored in -- probably terrain -- upshot: I
> killed them both and got another level out of it.)
>
> Subsequently, I never read-ID or quaff-ID in *bands (Sang may become an
> exception when I get around to trying it). I sell-ID anything I found
> more than one of until I no longer need to be concerned about conserving
> ID, and then I ID anything unique. Usually find a stat potion and at
> least one fairly deep scroll in my home at this point.

I sell everything I bring up from 50' and a most of what I find on 100
and 150' unless the level is fairly special. I figure I need the cash
for upgrading more than the stuff until I can buy a longbow, some decent
armor, a lantern, a shovel, a Staff of Perception and some recharging
scrolls. Deeper, I try to identify everything one way or another. I
figure I come out ahead despite the odd valuable item that I lose early.
I can usually reach level 10 by 250' doing that.

--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin>
My neuroscience wikiwiki is at
<http://scat-he-g4.sunderland.ac.uk/~harryerw/phpwiki/index.php>

 

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Harry Erwin wrote:
> I sell everything I bring up from 50' and a most of what I find on 100
> and 150' unless the level is fairly special. I figure I need the cash
> for upgrading more than the stuff until I can buy a longbow, some decent
> armor, a lantern, a shovel, a Staff of Perception and some recharging
> scrolls. Deeper, I try to identify everything one way or another. I
> figure I come out ahead despite the odd valuable item that I lose early.
> I can usually reach level 10 by 250' doing that.

What's the shovel for? Wands of stone to mud are much lighter and start
showing up fairly shallow, and until that depth mining isn't very
lucrative, especially without a source of treasure detection.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

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On 2005-05-12 21:27:39, Polarhound <Polarhound@comcast.net> wrote:

> Mondkalb wrote:
> > That's what I usually do, but once I've found a potion of experience at
> > 350' or so. I was lucky to identify that one using a scroll! ;-)
> > Out-of-depth-items aren't that rare, I think. I also found a bronze
> > dragon scalemail at 350', just lying around (waiting for lucky me :-D ).
> >
>
> The only shorts-changer I've ever had was a !oAugmentation at 500'. As
> you can guess, the RNG claimed that character soon afterwords.
>

Loads of OOD items for me... my statpotion rec is a Potion of Strength at 50'
and I once got a Shining dragon scalemail from Maggot... but this scalemail
game was when I was were noob to the game and so died quickly afterwards...
many other cool potions and other items for me as well... RoS at 250' or so...
surely, though, I'm the biggest scum-user Vanilla's ever seen... even AutoScum
doesn't satisfy me... In general, I don't explore any level, even at 50', if it
isn't "you like the look of this place" or better, which means either excellent
item or a huge OOD, so it's just logical I've got great OOD records...

Ojomax

 

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On 2005-05-12 17:17:14, "Mondkalb" <seoman_mondkalb@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ojomax schrieb:
> > Usually it's the best way to quaff all potions and read all
> scrolls in the
> > beginning game (in Vanilla, until 500'-600', because at this depth
> bad potions
> > are more likely to occur, for example Lose Memories, Stat-losing
> potions etc. I
> > guess you're a Vanilla player, so I now mainly speak about it)
> Sometimes potions
> > and scrolls have bad effects, but at beginning game very seldom
> anything mortal.
>
> Though it my be deadly for a new charakter to read a "summon monster"
> scroll (which I did the other day ;-) ).

True... but as I said, I'm a warrior specialist, and a warrior is usually the
best in early game and can get alive of such situations... I once summoned a
group of Snagas as a 1st level character and get out as the winner... in fact
summoning's the main reason I'm doing this reading in early game, it's SO much
fun... Anyone else whose winner bought 28 ?s of Recharging during the game and
used every single one for recharging Staves of Summoning? As a matter of fact,
I've been planning a variation where one'd have to summon uniques, they
wouldn't be generated normally... and where one'd have to kill all those
summoned uniques...

Ojomax

 

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On 2005-05-13 14:40:47, Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> Harry Erwin wrote:
> > I sell everything I bring up from 50' and a most of what I find on 100
> > and 150' unless the level is fairly special. I figure I need the cash
> > for upgrading more than the stuff until I can buy a longbow, some decent
> > armor, a lantern, a shovel, a Staff of Perception and some recharging
> > scrolls.

I know everyone doesn't like it, but there's another way to get the money, very
slow but very useful... known as townsperson farming... if u rest for thousands
of turns in a corner of the town, there'll be loads of townspersons and u get
loads of money... I once had a player who did this (back in Vanilla 2.9.3): at
one point: 3M turns used, EXP about 300, AC 95, nice equipment... slow way to
go, though...

> > Deeper, I try to identify everything one way or another. I
> > figure I come out ahead despite the odd valuable item that I lose early.
> > I can usually reach level 10 by 250' doing that.
>
> What's the shovel for? Wands of stone to mud are much lighter and start
> showing up fairly shallow, and until that depth mining isn't very
> lucrative, especially without a source of treasure detection.

In variants one doesn't have to have digging equipment (for example, Vanilla),
the normal weapon also is good enough. Treasure detection is generally of no
use, because one doesn't really need money that much and if he does, he can
generally get it in another way.

Ojomax

 

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Ojomax <lahtonen.sampsa@suomi24.fi> wrote:

> On 2005-05-13 14:40:47, Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Harry Erwin wrote:
> > > I sell everything I bring up from 50' and a most of what I find on 100
> > > and 150' unless the level is fairly special. I figure I need the cash
> > > for upgrading more than the stuff until I can buy a longbow, some decent
> > > armor, a lantern, a shovel, a Staff of Perception and some recharging
> > > scrolls.
>
> I know everyone doesn't like it, but there's another way to get the money,
> very slow but very useful... known as townsperson farming... if u rest for
> thousands of turns in a corner of the town, there'll be loads of
> townspersons and u get loads of money... I once had a player who did this
> (back in Vanilla 2.9.3): at one point: 3M turns used, EXP about 300, AC
> 95, nice equipment... slow way to go, though...
>
> > > Deeper, I try to identify everything one way or another. I
> > > figure I come out ahead despite the odd valuable item that I lose early.
> > > I can usually reach level 10 by 250' doing that.
> >
> > What's the shovel for? Wands of stone to mud are much lighter and start
> > showing up fairly shallow, and until that depth mining isn't very
> > lucrative, especially without a source of treasure detection.
>
> In variants one doesn't have to have digging equipment (for example, Vanilla),
> the normal weapon also is good enough. Treasure detection is generally of no
> use, because one doesn't really need money that much and if he does, he can
> generally get it in another way.
>
> Ojomax

Interesting. I play vanilla and use the shovel early.
--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin>
My neuroscience wikiwiki is at
<http://scat-he-g4.sunderland.ac.uk/~harryerw/phpwiki/index.php>

 

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"Paul & Victoria Heisner" <pheisner@shoreham.net> wrote in message
news:har2811ul45ngs5m5is9h4rdkgmvslp5h1@4ax.com...
>
> Greetings All,
<<SNIP!!>>

>

Best way to id shallow good scrolls & potions remains buy 1 & sell it
back...

seems obvious but nobody has mentioned it and the subject is Noob Question!

--
A(3.0.0) CD "Detritus" H W 33 DL1750' A++ R+ Sp- Wefender Tridend
A W H- D- c-- f- PV++ s d+ P++ M+ C- S+ I !So B-- ac- SQ? !V

 

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On 2005-05-14 19:25:15, herwin@theworld.com (Harry Erwin) wrote:

> > In variants one doesn't have to have digging equipment (for example, Vanilla),
> > the normal weapon also is good enough. Treasure detection is generally of no
> > use, because one doesn't really need money that much and if he does, he can
> > generally get it in another way.
> >
>
> Interesting. I play vanilla and use the shovel early.

This is mainly a question of what class you're playing, because tunneling is
affected by STR. A mage or priest, with bad STR, definitely needs a shovel of
some kind. As a warrior specialist, I usually have no need for digging
equipment even in early game, because I can tunnel quickly enough with normal
weapon if I really want
to.

Ojomax

 

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Ojomax wrote:
> This is mainly a question of what class you're playing, because tunneling is
> affected by STR. A mage or priest, with bad STR, definitely needs a shovel of
> some kind.

Except that early mining is useless, and by the time vaults and
summoners are showing up the wands of stone to mud are showing up also
-- and mages of course have the spell by that time too!

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

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On 2005-05-15 08:18:57, Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> Ojomax wrote:
> > This is mainly a question of what class you're playing, because tunneling is
> > affected by STR. A mage or priest, with bad STR, definitely needs a shovel of
> > some kind.
>
> Except that early mining is useless, and by the time vaults and
> summoners are showing up the wands of stone to mud are showing up also
> -- and mages of course have the spell by that time too!
>

That's the usual case, but, especially with priests, not always true. I once
detected an obvious greater vault of type I don't remember anymore at 650'.
Good luck? Definitely not. I didn't have any kind of digging equipment or wand
of stone to mud.
I searched and researched the entire level, nothing to help me. I couldn't get
there anyhow! I was very disappointed, but I had to leave the dungeon. (Of
course this was partly my own stupidity, but all the same it shows a priest may
have great need for digging equipment. I think I'd have gotten alive out of the
vault, there weren't too bad evil creatures there.) A mage generally has a
stone to mud spell at this point, but as a weak creature (s)he is always in
great danger with OOD monsters so it's questionable if a mage should enter such
a vault, however good may it be, in early game.

Ojomax