[HENG] Melee Forcetrainer - Ultimate Fighter w/ 2k+ damage..

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

~2 months ago i tried Forcetrainer, inspired by Adam. Very
straightforward Pious Archon Life, playing like a mage,
ignoring melee almost completely. Died before reaching
CLVL 50 (sadly, Ultimate Resist seemed awesome) but
I´ve got the super Kamehameha and improve force, and
it´s very cool to improve and them release a ~1000 damage
beam.

I´ve noticed that Barehanded damage is affected
by Improve Force. Never got to real hi melee power,
4 attacks (max of forcetrainer is 5) w/spellcaster gear,
~400 damage, but got awed that my damage could rise
to ~1000 with a few force improvements, but this effect
applies only to BAREHANDED. Wearing a weapon
nullifies this effect. I had 4 blows, not very hi to-dam and no
ring of extra attacks that benefit Forcetrainer
much more than monk.

Then just now i had an insight:

A melee hi-lvl forcetrainer could get 5 blows + shiva + RoEA +2/3
and get ~800 damage i think. AND THEN force improvement
could improve this damage to ~1500 (?). Already a good reason
to try huh?

NOW the REAL DEAL:
Weapon melee damage isn´t affected by improve force. Only
barehanded. And it seems to affect Barehanded DICE, just like
it affects the dice of all spells. If this is the case, the ~1500 damage
from force improvement can still be multiplied by the almighty
craft spell ELEMENTAL BRANDING, any monster that
doesn´t resist one of the 4/5? basic elements can be hit by damage
that can probably reach the 2.5 k house.

The above is false if Force improvement gives straight damage
to melee.

THE BIG PRO
- Potentially highest damage a character other than Zerker
can deal in an ammount of time in Heng (other than Time Stop)

THE BIG CON (to me anyway)
- Craft Magic. I love it, even thu i go nuts casting all the buffs
when i reach a level high enough. It´s common to waste ~6
turns before combat. And then, ADD the force powers,
management of force power to stay at a reasonable high level
heh
I can imagine the gameplay would need *LOTS* of phasedoor
to re-improve force, and *LOTS* of macros to make things
easier. ~4 rounds melee, phase, re-improve/heal, etc etc...

Now... I really don´t want to burn my brain before every
fight with Craft/Forcepowers IF Force improvement gives
straight barehand damage and/or don´t work with
elemental branding, and it´s already hard to see cuz from
my monk experiences Branding works w/ barehand
but doesn´t show nowhere in the character screen.
In this case, i would play Life and be happy trying to get
Ultimate Res... only 3 buffs then, Lightspeed, UR and IF.

BTW... I think there r other classes that can be very good
melee fighters: Mindcrafter, Magic Eater, Imitator.... all w/
5 blows and abilities geared towards combat.

NOTE: MUCH OF THE INFO ABOVE IS THEORETICAL!
Comments? Flames? Gunshots?
--
I will hold the candle till it burns up my arm.
I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired.
I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind.
I won't change direction and I won't change my mind...
How much difference does it make?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I'd love to try it... As soon as there's an OSX version of Hengband.

Hint hint.

On 2005-05-13 13:51:20 -0700, Atriel <atriel666@hotmail.com> said:

> ~2 months ago i tried Forcetrainer, inspired by Adam. Very
> straightforward Pious Archon Life, playing like a mage, ignoring melee
> almost completely. Died before reaching
> CLVL 50 (sadly, Ultimate Resist seemed awesome) but
> I´ve got the super Kamehameha and improve force, and
> it´s very cool to improve and them release a ~1000 damage
> beam.
>
> I´ve noticed that Barehanded damage is affected
> by Improve Force. Never got to real hi melee power,
> 4 attacks (max of forcetrainer is 5) w/spellcaster gear,
> ~400 damage, but got awed that my damage could rise
> to ~1000 with a few force improvements, but this effect
> applies only to BAREHANDED. Wearing a weapon
> nullifies this effect. I had 4 blows, not very hi to-dam and no ring of
> extra attacks that benefit Forcetrainer much more than monk.
>
> Then just now i had an insight:
>
> A melee hi-lvl forcetrainer could get 5 blows + shiva + RoEA +2/3
> and get ~800 damage i think. AND THEN force improvement
> could improve this damage to ~1500 (?). Already a good reason
> to try huh?
>
> NOW the REAL DEAL:
> Weapon melee damage isn´t affected by improve force. Only
> barehanded. And it seems to affect Barehanded DICE, just like
> it affects the dice of all spells. If this is the case, the ~1500 damage
> from force improvement can still be multiplied by the almighty
> craft spell ELEMENTAL BRANDING, any monster that
> doesn´t resist one of the 4/5? basic elements can be hit by damage
> that can probably reach the 2.5 k house.
>
> The above is false if Force improvement gives straight damage
> to melee.
>
> THE BIG PRO
> - Potentially highest damage a character other than Zerker
> can deal in an ammount of time in Heng (other than Time Stop)
>
> THE BIG CON (to me anyway)
> - Craft Magic. I love it, even thu i go nuts casting all the buffs
> when i reach a level high enough. It´s common to waste ~6
> turns before combat. And then, ADD the force powers, management of
> force power to stay at a reasonable high level
> heh
> I can imagine the gameplay would need *LOTS* of phasedoor
> to re-improve force, and *LOTS* of macros to make things
> easier. ~4 rounds melee, phase, re-improve/heal, etc etc...
>
> Now... I really don´t want to burn my brain before every
> fight with Craft/Forcepowers IF Force improvement gives
> straight barehand damage and/or don´t work with
> elemental branding, and it´s already hard to see cuz from
> my monk experiences Branding works w/ barehand
> but doesn´t show nowhere in the character screen.
> In this case, i would play Life and be happy trying to get
> Ultimate Res... only 3 buffs then, Lightspeed, UR and IF.
>
> BTW... I think there r other classes that can be very good
> melee fighters: Mindcrafter, Magic Eater, Imitator.... all w/
> 5 blows and abilities geared towards combat.
>
> NOTE: MUCH OF THE INFO ABOVE IS THEORETICAL!
> Comments? Flames? Gunshots?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Woohoo. Inspired someone.

"Atriel" <atriel666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d63408$13c9$1@news.vol.cz...
> ~2 months ago i tried Forcetrainer, inspired by Adam.

With the right equipment set up, you can definitely see
some pretty good melee damage with a forcetrainer.
However, the boosted damage from "Use Force"
only is good for one attack, and then every subsequent
turn it drops down fairly quickly, to where in 3-4
turns you are back to ordinary damage again.

I think the amount of turns it stays boosted at all
depends on how many times you layered your
"improve force" ability, and like I said, every turn
it drops a big chunk.

I'm not sure about your Craft spell comment--
doesn't that spell require you to pick an item or
ammunition to brand? If it does (I'm pretty sure
it does), it doesn't help the Forcetrainer, whose
boosted damage applies only to unarmed attack
damage, not to damage with weapons.

-- Adam

The character was quite fun to play though. I'd
change your damage potential order from berserker,
to monk, to forcetrainer most likely around 3rd. If
their "Improve Force" damage boost lasted for
a number of turns at full strength, you'd have a good
point.


>
> Then just now i had an insight:
>
> A melee hi-lvl forcetrainer could get 5 blows + shiva + RoEA +2/3
> and get ~800 damage i think. AND THEN force improvement
> could improve this damage to ~1500 (?). Already a good reason
> to try huh?
>
> NOW the REAL DEAL:
> Weapon melee damage isn´t affected by improve force. Only
> barehanded. And it seems to affect Barehanded DICE, just like
> it affects the dice of all spells. If this is the case, the ~1500 damage
> from force improvement can still be multiplied by the almighty
> craft spell ELEMENTAL BRANDING, any monster that
> doesn´t resist one of the 4/5? basic elements can be hit by damage
> that can probably reach the 2.5 k house.
>
> The above is false if Force improvement gives straight damage
> to melee.
>
> THE BIG PRO
> - Potentially highest damage a character other than Zerker
> can deal in an ammount of time in Heng (other than Time Stop)
>
> THE BIG CON (to me anyway)
> - Craft Magic. I love it, even thu i go nuts casting all the buffs
> when i reach a level high enough. It´s common to waste ~6
> turns before combat. And then, ADD the force powers,
> management of force power to stay at a reasonable high level
> heh
> I can imagine the gameplay would need *LOTS* of phasedoor
> to re-improve force, and *LOTS* of macros to make things
> easier. ~4 rounds melee, phase, re-improve/heal, etc etc...
>
> Now... I really don´t want to burn my brain before every
> fight with Craft/Forcepowers IF Force improvement gives
> straight barehand damage and/or don´t work with
> elemental branding, and it´s already hard to see cuz from
> my monk experiences Branding works w/ barehand
> but doesn´t show nowhere in the character screen.
> In this case, i would play Life and be happy trying to get
> Ultimate Res... only 3 buffs then, Lightspeed, UR and IF.
>
> BTW... I think there r other classes that can be very good
> melee fighters: Mindcrafter, Magic Eater, Imitator.... all w/
> 5 blows and abilities geared towards combat.
>
> NOTE: MUCH OF THE INFO ABOVE IS THEORETICAL!
> Comments? Flames? Gunshots?
> --
> I will hold the candle till it burns up my arm.
> I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired.
> I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind.
> I won't change direction and I won't change my mind...
> How much difference does it make?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

> I'm not sure about your Craft spell comment--
> doesn't that spell require you to pick an item or
> ammunition to brand? If it does (I'm pretty sure
> it does), it doesn't help the Forcetrainer, whose
> boosted damage applies only to unarmed attack
> damage, not to damage with weapons.

Nope, Elemental Branding gives a temporary elemental brand to
your current weapon, like an aura, blessing etc, and that´s
why its so cool with monks barehanded that already have
high dice ad high levels, and my assumption is that if
Improve Force improves the dice of barehanded, then
Elemental Branding will have a much greater impact!

--
I will hold the candle till it burns up my arm.
I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired.
I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind.
I won't change direction and I won't change my mind...
How much difference does it make?

 

[Manwe]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-05-14 19:28:30, Atriel <atriel666@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > I'm not sure about your Craft spell comment--
> > doesn't that spell require you to pick an item or
> > ammunition to brand? If it does (I'm pretty sure
> > it does), it doesn't help the Forcetrainer, whose
> > boosted damage applies only to unarmed attack
> > damage, not to damage with weapons.
>
> Nope, Elemental Branding gives a temporary elemental brand to
> your current weapon, like an aura, blessing etc, and that�s
> why its so cool with monks barehanded that already have
> high dice ad high levels, and my assumption is that if
> Improve Force improves the dice of barehanded, then
> Elemental Branding will have a much greater impact!
>

I can testify personally that Elemental Branding is EXTREMELY powerful with a
barehanded monk. As in, take a great bile wyrm down in 5-6 rounds of melee. Not
bad at all, except that it is a terribly mana-hungry spell, and its fail rate is
nothing to smirk at. In general, though, Craft is easily the most powerful realm
for a monk, with Passwall, Resistance, Stone Skin, Magical Armor, Living Trump,
and of course, Mana Branding, and more. That's how I was able to almost win
with my hobbit monk Tilson Firefist (now in the ladder graveyards) in under 16
hours of play.

Best,

Victor


--
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.