iron ironman dump [comp] [S]

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In this game, the closest to death was versus Boldor, but
a colbran almost did me in as well. I had to use !speed
against harpies twice. They are much scarier than uniques. :)


So far, I've identified all flavors via use, except for some
unfathomable reason I used _id to figure out wands of lightning.


Here's the dump before descending to 1650'.


[Sangband 0.9.9, beta 15d Character Dump]

Oober, the Waylayer Age : 166 STR: 18/70
Height : 5 ft, 5 in INT: 18
Weight : 102 lb Wis: 14 17
Gender : Male Dex: 18 18/20
Race : Dark-Elf Slayer of CON: 14
Ibun, Son of Mim CHR: 11

Max Hit Points 252 Power 56 Max Mana 0
Cur Hit Points 226 Score 37 Cur Mana 0

(Melee) Unspent Exp 739 (Missile)
Blows/Round 2 Gold 45688 Shots/Round 1.5
+ to Skill 8 + to Skill 7
Deadliness (%) 60 Max Depth 1600 ft Deadliness (%) 45

(Character Abilities)
Melee : Very Good Saving Throw: Excellent Magic Device: Excellent
Shooting : Excellent Stealth : Very Good Dodging : Iffy
Throwing : Excellent Perception : Excellent Fame : Spoken of
Digging : Fair Disarming : Superb Infra-Vision: 20 feet

Speed : -1
Armour : 63
Kills : 2279
Time Elapsed: 8 days, 10 hours, 8 minutes (842272 turns)


[Character Attributes]

abcdefghijkl@ Stat Intrnl abcdefghijkl@ Adjust Currnt
Stlth:............1 STR: 18 ..4.........3 18/70
Invis:............. INT: 15 ............3 18
Aware:...1......... Wis: 17 ............. 17 14
Disar:............. Dex: 11 ..........4.5 18/20 18
Devic:............. CON: 15 ............1 14
Speed:............. CHR: 12 ............1 11

abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Infra:............2 NFuel:.....+.......
Tunnl:............1 Steal:.............
Save :............. NoMag:.............
Mana :............. Telep:.............
Light:.....3....... Aggra:.............
Drain:.............

Curse:.............

abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid :.......+..... Light:............. Food :....+........
Elec :............. Dark :............. Feath:.............
Fire :............. Sound:............. Shine:.............
Cold :......+.+.... Shard:............. Regen:.............
Pois :............. Nexus:............. ESP :.............
Fear :............. Nethr:............. SeeIn:.......+.....
Blind:............. Chaos:............. FrAct:.......+.....
Confu:............. Disen:............. HLife:.............


[Skills]

Swordsmanship : 41%
Clubbing : 40% (max 41%)
Jousting : 40% (max 41%)
Archery - Xbows : 29% (max 33%)
Archery - Bows : 42% (max 44%)
Archery - Slings : 14% (max 21%)
Throwing : 41% (max 42%)
Wrestling : 43% (max 47%)
Karate : 65%
Wizardry : 50% (max 51%)
Holy Alliance : 42% (max 45%)
Nature Lore : 37% (max 40%)
Magical Device : 37% (max 40%)
Burglary : 43% (max 45%)
Perception : 41% (max 45%)
Stealth : 44% (max 45%)
Disarming : 44% (max 45%)
Dodging : 41% (max 42%)
Spell Resistance : 53% (max 55%)
Alchemy : 38% (max 40%)

You have taken the Oath of Iron.


[Character Equipment]

a Beaked Axe of Slay Animal (2d6) (+8,+8)
a Long Bow (x3) (+7,+3)
a Jasper Ring of Strength (+4)
a Bloodstone Ring of Awareness (+1)
a Bone Amulet of Slow Digestion
a Brass Lantern of Phlogiston [3]
Chain Mail of Resist Cold (-3) [14,+7]
the Cloak of Thorongil [1,+15]
a Wicker Shield of Resist Cold [2,+8] {rCold}
a Hard Leather Cap [2,+0]
a Set of Mail Gauntlets of Agility [2,+2] (+4)
a Pair of Metal Shod Boots [4,+4] {Angamaite of Umbar}
a Pouch (holding 33 essences of 14 types)
23 Bolts (1d5) (+6,+2) {Sangahyando of Umbar}
22 Arrows (1d4) (+13,+4) {Bolg, Son of Azog}
23 Arrows (1d4) (+5,+5)


[Character Inventory]

17 Green Mushrooms of Cure Poison
16 Furry Mushrooms of Cure Blindness
24 Lemon Speckled Mushrooms of Cure Confusion
a Wrinkled Mushroom of Heroism
11 Rations of Food
4 Puce Potions of Speed
3 Crimson Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
3 Scrolls titled "itder biemik" of Phase Door
2 Scrolls titled "iha re ypapp" of Teleportation
4 Scrolls titled "fri ankhden" of Remove Curse
2 Scrolls titled "sunden flittab" of Elemental Attacks
3 Sapphire Rods of Trap Location {@z1 !!}
4 Rhodium Rods of Illumination {@z2 !!}
5 Beryllium Rods of Light (1 charging) {@z3}
2 Shining Rods of Blinking {!!}
a Bronze Rod of Frost Bolts
4 Molybdenum Wands of Stinking Cloud (32 charges)
a Wrought Iron Wand of Fire Bolts (9 charges)
a Poplar Staff of Teleportation {Ibun, Son of Mim}
a Bamboo Staff of Perception (8 charges)
a Birch Staff of Cure Medium Wounds (13 charges)
a Bastard Sword (2d7) (+6,+7)


[Special advantages and disadvantages]
You were rolled up 16365 times before being accepted.
You refuse to return to the town or go up any stairs until victorious.
 
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Eddie Grove wrote:
> Max Hit Points 252 Power 56 Max Mana 0
> Deadliness (%) 60 Max Depth 1600 ft Deadliness (%) 45

Isn't that HP a touch on the low side for 1600'? My vanilla *mages* have
that much, and you're the closest thing in S to a *warrior*, having
taken the Oath of Iron...

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Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> writes:

> Eddie Grove wrote:
>> Max Hit Points 252 Power 56 Max Mana 0
>> Deadliness (%) 60 Max Depth 1600 ft Deadliness (%) 45
>
> Isn't that HP a touch on the low side for 1600'? My vanilla *mages*
> have that much, and you're the closest thing in S to a *warrior*,
> having taken the Oath of Iron...

It's not like I have a choice. I could have saved a ring of con+3,
for another 20 or 30 hitpoints, but I think that would be a mistake.

The comp is ironman -- you cannot replay levels waiting for experience
before you go deeper. Waiting for monsters to respawn is problematic.
In addition turn count matters a little, though I am not paying any
attention to that.

I wouldn't have picked a dark elf with low con if I rolled up the
character myself.

I had to run away [?tSelf] from a colbran. I descended from 1600 to
1650 without clearing the level, because of a pit of forge giants.
Too bad for me. :)

I don't actually expect to win when playing ironman. It's more a
question of seeing how far I can manage.


Eddie
 
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There is another factor, which is that has been through a
rebalancing of hitpoints similar to in [O]. So you can't really
directly compare the # of hit points his character has to the
equivalent Vanilla character.
 
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Eddie Grove wrote:
> The comp is ironman -- you cannot replay levels waiting for experience
> before you go deeper. Waiting for monsters to respawn is problematic.
> In addition turn count matters a little, though I am not paying any
> attention to that.
>
> I wouldn't have picked a dark elf with low con if I rolled up the
> character myself.

Hm. Given those constraints, it is the picking of the oath of iron that
looks like a mistake then. With unending food via spell, almost anyone
other than a warrior would hang around waiting for monster respawn. All
an ironman warrior can do is dive, end up way too deep for their
resists/HP, and die, I'm afraid. The best they can hope for is to luck
out (or stairscum for adjacent stairs and still luck out a little) and
make it to a spectacular depth (and a spectacular death). ;)

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Scott Yost wrote:
> There is another factor, which is that has been through a
> rebalancing of hitpoints similar to in [O]. So you can't really
> directly compare the # of hit points his character has to the
> equivalent Vanilla character.

Eh -- Oangband hitpoint rebalancing is MONSTER hitpoint rebalancing.
They still do as much damage (even, approximately, with breaths) and the
player still needs similar hitpoints when similar monsters are
encountered; the monsters OTOH have less and can generally be killed faster.

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Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> writes:

> In this game, the closest to death was versus Boldor, but
> a colbran almost did me in as well. I had to use !speed
> against harpies twice. They are much scarier than uniques. :)

Well, I've gotten a lot further, and stormcrows are wimps
compared to harpies. I can't imagine what that fuss is about. :)

I've cleared every level, except had to run from blue ickies on one
level, and rock worms on another, and a couple of trapdoors. Also,
left a severely OOD Fundin alone. The other 39 uniques seen are dead.

I've continued to id all flavored objects via usage, except for a
period of 10 or 15 scrolls I had to id until I found both ?CurseWeapon
and ?CurseArmor. I'd forgotten that Amulets of Doom are heavy-cursed
in . The result is that I have to rely on wrestling for serious
damage until [if] I find ?*RemoveCurse. It also cost me a precious
?removecurse to get the bad news, and I lost use of "Sustenance to
feed myself. Quel bummer.

This dump is after clearing 2750'. For the first time I really don't
know what to take down.

Some stuff on the ground includes ?SatisfyHunger, which I plan to read
before descending [or I could hunt up a cakeOfBeorning to satiate and
take it down]. Also, rings of darkness [rDark and sDex and rNether]
and sustain body [sDex sCon sStr]. Also, _perception and 5 rods of
acid bolts. I'm leaving behind 20+ mushrooms of curing, which perhaps
I should take instead of athelas.

I have killed Quaker. Do I really need to save the ring of holiness
for blessing? Most opps that require blessing to hit resist blunt
anyway, so most of the time I'd be using Orome instead.

Should I discard Nimloth? It's not much use in traps, because it gets
treated as a throwing weapon and so is a one-shot. However it's light
enough for 4 attacks, useful against opps hurt by cold, and I can use
it against blunt-immune if Orome is in a trap.


[Sangband 0.9.9, beta 15d Character Dump]

Oober Age : 166 STR: 18/137
the Shadowboxer Height : 5 ft, 5 in INT: 18/66
Weight : 102 lb WIS! 18/60
Gender : Male DEX: 18/74
Race : Dark-Elf Slayer of a level 68 CON! 18/90
Lesser Balrog CHR! 18/30

Max Hit Points 521 Power 78 Max Mana 0
Cur Hit Points 521 Score 82 Cur Mana 0

(Melee) Unspent Exp 77 (Missile)
Blows/Round 4 Gold 392677 Shots/Round 1
+ to Skill 19 + to Skill 19
Deadliness (%) 114 Max Depth 2750 ft Deadliness (%) 119

(Character Abilities)
Melee : Superb Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb
Shooting : Superb Stealth : Superb Dodging : Poor
Throwing : Superb Perception : Superb Fame : Respected
Digging : Very Good Disarming : Heroic Infra-Vision: 20 feet

Speed : +3
Armour : 120
Kills : 4483
Time Elapsed: 16 days, 0 hours, 6 minutes (1600448 turns)


[Character Attributes]

abcdefghijkl@ Stat Intrnl abcdefghijkl@ Adjust
Stlth:3..........31 STR: 18/87 .2.s6.2...2.5 18/137
Invis:............. INT: 18/76 ....6....2..3 18/66
Aware:............. WIS! 18/100 ...s6....2... 18/60
Disar:............. DEX: 18/54 ....6.2.....6 18/74
Devic:............. CON! 18/100 ...s6.....23. 18/90
Speed:...........3. CHR! 18/100 ....6.......1 18/30

abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Infra:............2 NFuel:.....+.......
Tunnl:............2 Steal:.............
Save :............. NoMag:.............
Mana :............. Telep:.............
Light:.....3....... Aggra:.............
Drain:.............

Curse:.............

abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid :.......++.... Light:...+....+.... Food :.............
Elec :........+.... Dark :........+.... Feath:.............
Fire :........+.... Sound:............. Shine:.............
Cold :........+.... Shard:............. Regen:.............
Pois :..+.......... Nexus:............. ESP :.............
Fear :............. Nethr:............. SeeIn:.......+.....
Blind:............. Chaos:............. FrAct:.......+.....
Confu:............. Disen:............. HLife:.............


[Skills]

Swordsmanship : 70%
Clubbing : 69% (max 70%)
Jousting : 69% (max 70%)
Archery - Xbows : 70%
Archery - Bows : 61%
Archery - Slings : 45%
Throwing : 70%
Wrestling : 79% (max 80%)
Karate : 69%
Wizardry : 69% (max 70%)
Holy Alliance : 68% (max 70%)
Nature Lore : 70%
Magical Device : 50%
Burglary : 68% (max 69%)
Perception : 68% (max 69%)
Stealth : 67% (max 68%)
Disarming : 67% (max 68%)
Dodging : 48% (max 50%)
Spell Resistance : 75%
Alchemy : 69%

You have taken the Oath of Iron.


[Character Equipment]

the Spear 'Nimloth' (1d6) (+11,+13) (+3 to stealth)
[cold brand, slay undead]
a Light Crossbow of Velocity (x3) (+11,+15) (+2)
[for the Str bonus, cannot afford a slot for ammo]
a Mithril Ring of Poison Resistance
a Gold Ring of Holiness
[sStr sCon activates for bless]
a Pewter Amulet of DOOM
[had since 2600']
the Phial of Galadriel [3] {!! SpectralKiller2500}
the Brigandine Armour of the Rohirrim (-2) [18,+15] (+2)
the Cloak of Thorongil [1,+15]
the Large Leather Shield of Celegorm [6,+20]
the Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil [2,+11] (+2)
[rBlind + ESP]
the Set of Leather Gloves 'Cambeleg' (+8,+8) [1,+12] (+2) {Rogrog the Bl
[does NOT give FA]
the Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Nevrast [3,+13] (+3)
a Pouch (holding 163 essences of 17 types)


[Character Inventory]

5 Wrinkled Mushrooms of Heroism
a Piece of Elvish Waybread
6 Sprigs of Athelas
4 Puce Potions of Speed
4 Magenta Potions of Resistance
2 Dark Green Potions of Healing
2 Scrolls titled "fri ankhden" of Remove Curse
a Scroll titled "iv nelgwerg" of Genocide
4 Sapphire Rods of Trap Location {@z1 !!}
4 Rhodium Rods of Illumination {@z2 !!}
7 Shining Rods of Blinking {!!}
a Gold Rod of Lightning Balls {!!}
2 Iridescent Rods of Cold Balls {!!}
4 Cast Iron Wands of Teleport Away (0 charges)
an Ivory Wand of Acid Balls (5 charges)
a Poplar Staff of Teleportation (8 charges) {8}
a Birch Staff of Cure Medium Wounds (12 charges) {12}
a Locust Staff of Speed (8 charges) {8}
the Amulet of Carlammas (+2)
the Spear of Orome (2d6) (+15,+15) [3,+0] (+4)
[fire brand + slay evil]
7 Well-balanced Throwing Axes of Burning (2d3) (+10,+10)
the Quarterstaff 'Nar-i-vagil' (5d2) (+10,+20) [15,+15] (+3)
[fire brand]
the Lead-Filled Mace 'Turmil' (3d4) (+14,+12) (+4) {!!}
[cold brand + slay evil]


[Special advantages and disadvantages]
You were rolled up 16365 times before being accepted.
You refuse to return to the town or go up any stairs until victorious.
 
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Eddie Grove wrote:
> I have killed Quaker. Do I really need to save the ring of holiness
> for blessing? Most opps that require blessing to hit resist blunt
> anyway, so most of the time I'd be using Orome instead.

Orome? As in the quarterstaff 'Orome'? Isn't that blunt?

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One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On 2005-05-25 07:38:38, Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> Hm. Given those constraints, it is the picking of the oath of iron that
> looks like a mistake then. With unending food via spell, almost anyone
> other than a warrior would hang around waiting for monster respawn.

Wand of cloning. And if you are a purist who thinks 'cloning' is cheating, then
find quylthulg and befriend it. Unlimited monsters at zero charge ;-)
 
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Twisted One wrote:
> Eddie Grove wrote:
>
>> I have killed Quaker. Do I really need to save the ring of holiness
>> for blessing? Most opps that require blessing to hit resist blunt
>> anyway, so most of the time I'd be using Orome instead.
>
>
> Orome? As in the quarterstaff 'Orome'? Isn't that blunt?
>
From the attached chardump:

the Spear of Orome (2d6) (+15,+15) [3,+0] (+4)
 
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Juho Schultz wrote:
> From the attached chardump:
>
> the Spear of Orome (2d6) (+15,+15) [3,+0] (+4)

That's weird.

(I never read chardumps -- very long and dense)

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In article <u6ednSBEpa0tDADfRVn-ug@rogers.com>,
Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>Juho Schultz wrote:
>> From the attached chardump:
>>
>> the Spear of Orome (2d6) (+15,+15) [3,+0] (+4)
>
>That's weird.

In what way?

It's always been a spear.
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Julian Lighton wrote:
> In what way?
>
> It's always been a spear.

In , maybe.

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Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> writes:

> Julian Lighton wrote:
>>> When was it a quarterstaff, then?
>> Never.
>
> Are you implying that I'm a liar?
>
> I recall a quarterstaff of that name. I wouldn't recall it if I hadn't
> seen it. So your statement amounts to an assertion that I'm either
> lying, incompetent, or in some way unreliable. That would seem to

You're a liar, or an idiot. Your choice.

Welcome to my killfile.


Eddie
 
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Eddie Grove wrote:
> You're a liar, or an idiot. Your choice.
>
> Welcome to my killfile.

I wonder what that was all about. Out of the blue, virulent insultage
and a plonking? All because I took issue with being called names by a
totally different poster, whose flaming in turn was in response to a
posting of mine that was 100% certified civil and non-smoking?

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In article <s8udnf907Y75qQPfRVn-vg@rogers.com>,
Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>Julian Lighton wrote:
>> In what way?
>>
>> It's always been a spear.
>
>In , maybe.

From Angbnad 305:

# The Spear of Orome

N:98:eek:f Orome
I:22:2:4
W:15:45:50:60000
P:0:4d6:15:15:0
# F:DRAIN_MANA |
F:INT | SPEED | INFRA | HIDE_TYPE |
F:BRAND_FIRE | SLAY_GIANT | SLAY_ANIMAL | RES_FIRE | RES_LITE |
F:FEATHER | LITE | SEE_INVIS | ACTIVATE | BLESSED | SHOW_MODS
A:STONE_TO_MUD:5:0
D:The thrusting spear of wise Orome the Vala, strong against giants of frost,
D:and able to pierce rock or flesh with ease.

--
Julian Lighton jl8e@fragment.com
/* You are not expected to understand this. */
 
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Julian Lighton wrote:
> From Angbnad 305:
>
> # The Spear of Orome

When was it a quarterstaff, then? Must be longer ago than I thought.

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In article <loadnS0VJMQ41wPfRVn-vg@rogers.com>,
Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>Julian Lighton wrote:
>> From Angbnad 305:
>>
>> # The Spear of Orome
>
>When was it a quarterstaff, then?

Never.

>Must be longer ago than I thought.

Or you're thinking of Olorin.
--
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Julian Lighton wrote:
>>When was it a quarterstaff, then?
>
> Never.

Are you implying that I'm a liar?

I recall a quarterstaff of that name. I wouldn't recall it if I hadn't
seen it. So your statement amounts to an assertion that I'm either
lying, incompetent, or in some way unreliable. That would seem to
constitute a personal attack. Given the lack of provocation in the post
you followed up to, flaming me does not seem to be justifiable.

Please explain.

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In article <qc-dnSwyV-OTzwPfRVn-rQ@rogers.com>,
Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>Julian Lighton wrote:
>>>When was it a quarterstaff, then?
>>
>> Never.
>
>Are you implying that I'm a liar?
>
>I recall a quarterstaff of that name. I wouldn't recall it if I hadn't
>seen it. So your statement amounts to an assertion that I'm either
>lying, incompetent, or in some way unreliable. That would seem to
>constitute a personal attack. Given the lack of provocation in the post
>you followed up to, flaming me does not seem to be justifiable.
>
>Please explain.

Certainly:

You're either:

A troll.

or

Insane.
--
Julian Lighton jl8e@fragment.com
/* You are not expected to understand this. */
 
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Julian Lighton wrote:
> Certainly:
>
> You're either:
>
> A troll.
>
> or
>
> Insane.

I don't see how you infer this. You made a post accusing me of making
false claims. The posting has no possible charitable interpretation --
at best I'm mentally deficient and at worst I'm intentionally lying, if
it is to be believed. This blatant flame is in response to a posting of
mine that is not in the least uncivil or otherwise worthy of such a
hostile response.

I call you on this flamage, and your response is to further suggest
mental deficiency?

How about engaging in civil discoure instead of violently attacking
people out of the blue?

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Twisted One <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in news:qc-dnSwyV-
OTzwPfRVn-rQ@rogers.com:
>
> Are you implying that I'm a liar?
>
> I recall a quarterstaff of that name. I wouldn't recall it if I hadn't
> seen it. So your statement amounts to an assertion that I'm either
> lying, incompetent, or in some way unreliable. That would seem to
> constitute a personal attack. Given the lack of provocation in the
post
> you followed up to, flaming me does not seem to be justifiable.
>
> Please explain.

No, you implied Orome wasn't a spear in non-Sang versions of Angband,
in a civil fashion.

Julian responded with the Angband spoiler info for Orome showing
that the core version of the *bands called it a spear, in
a civil fashion.

You asked when it was a quarterstaff in the past, in a civil fashion.

Julian answers "never," a direct and informative response. Julian
goes a step further by offering a potential explanation by mentioning
a similar name that you might have confused with Orome, again with a
civil manner.

You twist Julian's response of "never" into a personal attack upon
yourself, which takes either some degree of paranoia or feeling of
heavy persecution (which might have been supplied by other threads
which have been a bit more negative about your characteristics). You
become both antagonistic and defensive, and introduce the first flaming
into this thread yourself in the process. You also conveniently don't
address the rest of Julian's post, as to whether or not you had perhaps
possibly confused Olorin with Orome.

From that point, Julian and Eddie take a less civil tone with you,
as you've already started the indignant flaming off of an informative
response. After you incorrectly claimed Julian was calling you a liar
and/or incompetant and went off on a paranoid paragraph, Julian did
still address your request to explain, by classing you as either a
troll or insane. Which is understandable due to your unjustified
reaction to someone who was simply answering your own questions earlier.
Eddie took a similar approach, presumably being driven as well by your
actions in other threads.

You started the negative posting here and tried to lay the blame
for it onto others. Despite your assertations to both Julian and Eddie,
you were the one to start flaming Julian's "100% certified civil and
non-smoking," not the reverse.
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Billy Bissette wrote:
> No, you implied Orome wasn't a spear in non-Sang versions of Angband,
> in a civil fashion.
>
> Julian responded with the Angband spoiler info for Orome showing
> that the core version of the *bands called it a spear, in
> a civil fashion.
>
> You asked when it was a quarterstaff in the past, in a civil fashion.
>
> Julian answers "never," a direct and informative response. Julian
> goes a step further by offering a potential explanation by mentioning
> a similar name that you might have confused with Orome, again with a
> civil manner.

Ah, but you are missing the undercurrent. By doing so, he implies that I
am confused or otherwise mentally deficient. Also, by making an
assertion that flatly contradicts my personal experience and what I have
actually witnessed with my own eyes, he goes far beyond merely
disagreeing about a matter of opinion, to actually implying that either
I am prone to hallucination (more mental illness!) or engaging on some
kind of deception (incompetently, it would seem -- more mental
illness!). Reading between the lines reveals a triple-flame questioning
my mental health -- a very common target on usenet for some reason,
one's mental health...

> You twist Julian's response of "never" into a personal attack upon
> yourself, which takes either some degree of paranoia or feeling of
> heavy persecution

Paranoia is justified when the same someone has been curt or downright
rude to you recently and has made other insulting insinuations recently.
In any case, I don't see any way that one can interpret his "Never"
charitably, i.e. with no implied negative statement about me and more
specifically the functioning of my mind. There is simply no way that the
picture he paints, which is that I claimed something untrue, can itself
be accurate without my being as a logical necessity either deluded or a
liar. Neither is a charitable thing to imply about another person,
especially when the post you're responding to did nothing of the sort to
you first. And the logical "or" of the two is therefore itself
uncharitable. Since it's implied by the face value of his post, his post
is therefore uncharitable. (And it is most certainly undiplomatic. But
then, so are all of his posts. And I suppose some of mine.)

> You become both antagonistic and defensive

I became defensive; that much is true. Of course -- I had been attacked,
and either my integrity or mental health called into question. Unlike
disagreeing with an opinion, what he did was dispute the validity of my
own direct experience, or else my reporting of same. Either my
experience is somehow illusory (hallucinations?) or my reporting was
intentionally distorted (i.e. I'm a liar). Can you see a charitable
interpretation of his post -- one in which neither of those insults is
implied, nor any other? I cannot. His statement doesn't leave room for
equivocation. It essentially questions either my integrity or my
competence, and no such assertion can be left to stand uncontested.
Silence implies assent.

> and introduce the first flaming into this thread yourself in the process.

Really? Even though he called me a liar (or maybe he meant to call me an
incompetent?) *before* I followed up, my follow-up counts as the *first*
flaming? Please explain the logic behind this?

More generally, how would you suggest I handle being flatly contradicted
in public on a question not of opinion but of my personal experience?
Obviously, the contradiction must be itself contradicted. Can you
suggest a better way to go about doing it, which would preferably also
have rebuked him for his hostile act?

If you can, by all means please do.

> You also conveniently don't
> address the rest of Julian's post, as to whether or not you had perhaps
> possibly confused Olorin with Orome.

I didn't feel that part worthy of a response, as it is so insulting and
just continues the theme of questioning my mental competence.

> After you incorrectly claimed Julian was calling you a liar
> and/or incompetant...

Incorrectly? I don't think so. Even if there is some third
interpretation of his post that doesn't imply that I am lying or that my
memory or senses are in some way faulty, I very much doubt he meant that
interpretation. My guess is that he intended to suggest to everyone that
my memory or senses don't work properly, and thus that I am mentally
incompetent.

> Julian did
> still address your request to explain, by classing you as either a
> troll or insane.

In other words, he clarified his original position and confirmed the
interpretation I suspected all along, namely that he intends to publicly
call my mental health into question. And yet you continue to defend him
rather than me.

His behavior is uncharitable -- and he definitely started it, since his
first, more subtle implied questioning of my mental health occurred
before I posted anything that might reasonably be considered a flame.

> Which is understandable due to your unjustified
> reaction to someone who was simply answering your own questions earlier.

"Answering" them by insulting me and calling my mental health into
question -- in public, at that, rather than in private email -- does IMO
justify such a reaction.

> You started the negative posting here and tried to lay the blame
> for it onto others.

A post flatly contradicting someone else's and leaving no room for
maneuvering between interpreting it as calling them a liar and
interpreting it as questioning their sanity doesn't qualify in your view
as "negative"?

Either you are just trying to find some justification to pin the blame
on me (why does that seem to be a popular sport around some parts?) or
you genuinely are incapable somehow of reading between the lines or
making even minimal inferences from peoples' statements and honestly
don't think his "never" post implicitly called either my mental health
or my honesty into question. And this despite a later post where he
followed up to EXplicitly call my mental health into question. This
makes me start to wonder if maybe I should call YOUR mental health into
question ... but I guess that would be uncharitable, wouldn't it?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:34:42 GMT, Billy Bissette
<baines@coastalnet.com> wrote:

> You started the negative posting here and tried to lay the blame
>for it onto others.

Something he's been doing for more than five years now. How long are
others going to keep playing?

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com