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Sangband beta 18 available.

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Anonymous
May 31, 2005 5:36:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Website:
http://runegold.org/sangband/


Source:
http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-src.zip


IBM (plain, full screen)
http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-ibm.zip

Windows (multiple windows, sound)
http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-win.zip



Basic changes:
- game is easier, especially for magic-users.
- burglary Oath, some related enhancements (some still in beta)
- heavy tweaking of character magic and related code, based on
playtesting.
- bugfixes and general polishing, most sangband-specific, but others
applicable to some or even most other variants.


Comments and suggestions are always appreciated, especially as the game
is fine-tuned for Version 1.0.0.

A special thanks to Scott Yost and also to Eddie Grove!

More about : sangband beta

Anonymous
May 31, 2005 8:27:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Leon Marrick wrote:
> Basic changes:
> - game is easier, especially for magic-users.
> - burglary Oath, some related enhancements (some still in beta)
> - heavy tweaking of character magic and related code, based on
> playtesting.
> - bugfixes and general polishing, most sangband-specific, but others
> applicable to some or even most other variants.

Yes, but are stormcrows toned down and weapons made more useful in the
early game? Those are the questions everyone's asking I'm sure ... :) 

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 9:45:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Leon Marrick wrote:

> Comments and suggestions are always appreciated, especially as the game
> is fine-tuned for Version 1.0.0.

Is anyone working on a Mac OS X Carbon build?

I have a build that's mostly working, using copies of main-crb.c and
Makefile.osx from V that have been beaten into submission, and Pelpel's
"Mach-O Extras" package.

It runs well enough, but there are a few cosmetic issues. So, before I
go any further I need to ask - has anyone already invented that wheel?

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Related resources
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 11:49:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Leon Marrick wrote:
>
> > Comments and suggestions are always appreciated, especially as the game
> > is fine-tuned for Version 1.0.0.
>
> Is anyone working on a Mac OS X Carbon build?
>
> I have a build that's mostly working, using copies of main-crb.c and
> Makefile.osx from V that have been beaten into submission, and Pelpel's
> "Mach-O Extras" package.
>
> It runs well enough, but there are a few cosmetic issues. So, before I
> go any further I need to ask - has anyone already invented that wheel?
>
> sherm--
>

Ouch! Here I was all ready to try my first sangband. I was just about
to try the OSX build. Guess I'm out of luck for now. The Mac #ifdefs
are something I don't want to deal with if they've been dealt with
once.

Sherm, it's still beta; cosmetic issues are allowed...

Will OSX x11 build work, or are the unix internal commands too much
changed for this to work without code changes, not just makefile
changes? I don't see a BSD/X11 makefile, so I have rather poor
expectations.
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 2:40:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-05-31 10:53:32, topazg <graham@blessyou.co.uk> wrote:

> On 2005-05-31 10:27:54, Twisted One wrote:
>
> > Leon Marrick wrote:
> > > Basic changes:
> > > - game is easier, especially for magic-users.
> > > - burglary Oath, some related enhancements (some still in beta)
> > > - heavy tweaking of character magic and related code, based on
> > > playtesting.
> > > - bugfixes and general polishing, most sangband-specific, but others
> > > applicable to some or even most other variants.
> >
> > Yes, but are stormcrows toned down and weapons made more useful in the
> > early game? Those are the questions everyone's asking I'm sure ... :) 
> >
>
> [Long long list of changes]
>
> Betas 16 through 18

> - Damage done by Slingers and Sharpshooters seriously toned down, and that by
> various thieves and warriors reduced somewhat.

Leon, why don't you do something that I'm seriously considering for Unangband,
and have Slingers, Sharpshooters and various other archer monsters carry a
stock of ammunition in their inventory, that they use up as they fire. This
way, you have a controllable upper limit for these monsters of how many shots
they have, plus make archer and thrower player characters have access to basic
ammuntion types by killing particular monsters.

Plus, its cool to have the Manticore carry a whole lot of iron spikes...

For bonus points, have the projection types for these monsters 'drop' ammunition
over the place (except for a breakage chance), that they can then collect up to
fire again.

Regards,

Andrew

--
Unangband L:C E+ T- R- P+ D-- G+(+) F:Sangband RL-- RLA-- W:F Q++
AI+(++) GFX++ SFX++ RN+++(+) PO++ Hp+++ Re--(+) S++ C- O* KG--
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 4:33:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Leon Marrick wrote:
>
>> Basic changes:
>> - game is easier, especially for magic-users.
>> - burglary Oath, some related enhancements (some still in beta)
>> - heavy tweaking of character magic and related code, based on
>> playtesting.
>> - bugfixes and general polishing, most sangband-specific, but others
>> applicable to some or even most other variants.
>
>
> Yes, but are stormcrows toned down and weapons made more useful in the
> early game? Those are the questions everyone's asking I'm sure ... :) 
>
If I understand changes.txt properly, both issues have been dealt with.
There is about 500 lines describing changes made after beta15 so Leon
has worked hard.

What I would like to see is a warning for missing X11 fonts.
Or a note in compile.txt on how to play with fonts.

I have to edit h-config.h before compiling to get working small fonts.
#define DEFAULT_X11_SFONT_0 "5x8" /* or something like that */
I kwno nothinga about X programming but this works on my system.

Without this change the game crashes at startup without a warning. The
results I get this way (under a Fedora 3) are a bit ugly, but the game
runs again. (Under Fedora 1 the small font was prettier. Now I don't
have the correct font and this is IMO easier than font hunting.)
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 4:43:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

topazg <graham@blessyou.co.uk> wrote:
>[Long long list of changes]
>Betas 16 through 18

Two things that I didn't seem to notice in the list of changes:
- Casting the identify spell when you have nothing to identify or
canceling it still uses mana and a turn; I've sometimes suffered from
this when pressing the wrong macro key.
- Hellhounds seem pretty tough to me.

I'll also add my vote on fixing forging/imbuing with essences. I think
the random abilities gained from just forging should be toned down quite
a bit and then the abilities from imbuing added on top of the random
abilities.


Otto Martin - well, there's tons of little things, but I won't bother...
--
<XnD> Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand
http://bash.org/?277337
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 5:47:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

pete mack wrote:

> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
>>I have a build that's mostly working, using copies of main-crb.c and
>>Makefile.osx from V that have been beaten into submission, and Pelpel's
>>"Mach-O Extras" package.
>>
> Ouch! Here I was all ready to try my first sangband. I was just about
> to try the OSX build. Guess I'm out of luck for now. The Mac #ifdefs
> are something I don't want to deal with if they've been dealt with
> once.
>
> Sherm, it's still beta; cosmetic issues are allowed...

Okay, then - I've uploaded it to my site:

<http://www.dot-app.org/Sangband-beta18-osx.dmg&gt;

The "cosmetic issues" I mentioned are two:

1. Like every variant I've tried under Tiger, the windows don't come up
at the correct size. Choosing the font size in the menu corrects that.

2. After the splash screen, the window stays the same size. *But*, the
game acts like the window has shrunk down to the standard smaller size,
which leaves the bottom half of the window empty.

Other than that, it appears to work OK. Keep in mind though, that I've
never played Sang until now - I had to build it first. :-\

> Will OSX x11 build work, or are the unix internal commands too much
> changed for this to work without code changes, not just makefile
> changes?

Works out of the box with the generic makefile. Just do:

(unzip)
cd sang-src/src
cp/system/mai?-x11* main-gcu.c ./
make -f system/Makefile.std

Fonts are funky on the splash screen, but clear up when you enter the
game. Works in Terminal.app too, if you ask it to or if it fails to
connect to X11.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 6:36:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Thanks. Your port is working, mostly. The X11 isn't. I can't get it
to recognise the Terminal.app as a curses-enabled terminal, and
apparently I need to reinstall X windows. (Can't start X anymore.)

Had a couple crashes on screen resizing, that don't happen in NPP or V.
Rob Ruehlmann has made a lot of relatively recent improvements to V
OSX. But thanks much for this!

I bit the dust at 150', to 3 critters waiting at a hallway junction.
Looks like 4gai similar to NPP.... And the monsters are annoying when
they run away and don't come back. Takes forever to do away with
maggot's dogs.

Guess I need to learn how to allocate skills. I tried throwing &
swordmastery first with a very light weapon. (Like standard V play.)
It started out great, then got very hard to accumulate skill. Perhaps
I need to try something else...
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:25:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 01:36:40 -0400, "Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org>
wrote:

>
>
>Comments and suggestions are always appreciated, especially as the game
>is fine-tuned for Version 1.0.0.
>
>A special thanks to Scott Yost and also to Eddie Grove!
>
I got a quest for 42 novice priests. Isn't that a bit much?

--
Wim Benthem
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:59:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Andrew Doull" <andrewdoull@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 7heut$jav$1@news.vol.cz...
> On 2005-05-31 10:53:32, topazg <graham@blessyou.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 2005-05-31 10:27:54, Twisted One wrote:
>>
>> > Leon Marrick wrote:
>> > > Basic changes:
>> > > - game is easier, especially for magic-users.
>> > > - burglary Oath, some related enhancements (some still in beta)
>> > > - heavy tweaking of character magic and related code, based on
>> > > playtesting.
>> > > - bugfixes and general polishing, most sangband-specific, but others
>> > > applicable to some or even most other variants.
>> >
>> > Yes, but are stormcrows toned down and weapons made more useful in the
>> > early game? Those are the questions everyone's asking I'm sure ... :) 
>> >
>>
>> [Long long list of changes]
>>
>> Betas 16 through 18
>
>> - Damage done by Slingers and Sharpshooters seriously toned down, and
>> that by
>> various thieves and warriors reduced somewhat.
>
> Leon, why don't you do something that I'm seriously considering for
> Unangband,
> and have Slingers, Sharpshooters and various other archer monsters carry a
> stock of ammunition in their inventory, that they use up as they fire.
> This
> way, you have a controllable upper limit for these monsters of how many
> shots
> they have, plus make archer and thrower player characters have access to
> basic
> ammuntion types by killing particular monsters.
>
> Plus, its cool to have the Manticore carry a whole lot of iron spikes...
>
> For bonus points, have the projection types for these monsters 'drop'
> ammunition
> over the place (except for a breakage chance), that they can then collect
> up to
> fire again.
>

Hey, that would be cool. How is Unangband going? I never managed to try
it out, but definitely would if this was implemented. Great idea :) .

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:59:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-05-31 12:59:41, "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:

> Hey, that would be cool. How is Unangband going? I never managed to try
> it out, but definitely would if this was implemented. Great idea :) .
>

I'm just pottering around at the moment. I'd like to adopt 4gai completely
(movement has been in for a while) but Unangband's terrain code allows grids to
allow los but not projection and vice versa. Given that Leon has said that the
projection code in Sangband was possibly the hardest coding he has done; its a
little discouraging.

Andrew

--
Unangband L:C E+ T- R- P+ D-- G+(+) F:Sangband RL-- RLA-- W:F Q++
AI+(++) GFX++ SFX++ RN+++(+) PO++ Hp+++ Re--(+) S++ C- O* KG--
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:59:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Andrew Doull" <andrewdoull@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:D 7hnsk$qp5$1@news.vol.cz...
> On 2005-05-31 12:59:41, "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:
>
> > Hey, that would be cool. How is Unangband going? I never managed to try
> > it out, but definitely would if this was implemented. Great idea :) .
> >
>
> I'm just pottering around at the moment. I'd like to adopt 4gai completely
> (movement has been in for a while) but Unangband's terrain code allows grids to
> allow los but not projection and vice versa. Given that Leon has said that the
> projection code in Sangband was possibly the hardest coding he has done; its a
> little discouraging.
>
I will be tackling this problem in NPP very soon. I am adopting the UnAngband terrain code, and I have to figure this out. I have no idea when NPP 050 will be out, but your solution will be in there.


--
-Jeff

replace the ".spam"s with comcast.net to reply

Author of NPPAngband. Check it out at:
http://home.comcast.net/~nppangband/
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:36:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

pete mack wrote:

> Thanks. Your port is working, mostly.

Don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a port. I didn't create a new
main-xxx or makefile, just hacked in the relevant bits from V, and
Pelpel's "extras" package.

I *have* been thinking about doing a Cocoa port though. I'm thinking
those cosmetic problems (font & window sizing, primarily) will need some
non-trivial Carbon-fu to fix. I don't know much about Carbon, and I'm
not sure I want to. :-)

> The X11 isn't. I can't get it
> to recognise the Terminal.app as a curses-enabled terminal, and
> apparently I need to reinstall X windows. (Can't start X anymore.)

Worked for me, right out of the box with the .std makefile. If I start
up X, it works with that. (Well, it turns the splash screen into
gibberish, but works fine after that.) If X isn't running, it times out
trying to connect, and then starts up and runs fine in text mode.

This is on Tiger, built with GCC 4.0. (I built the Carbon binary with
GCC 3.3, for compatibility with older OSX versions.)

> Had a couple crashes on screen resizing, that don't happen in NPP or V.
> Rob Ruehlmann has made a lot of relatively recent improvements to V
> OSX. But thanks much for this!

The main-crb.c I used is the latest bleeding-edge version from Vanilla
CVS. I didn't try to update all of the z-* stuff along with it though -
there could be an "impedance mismatch" there that might account for the
crashes.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 3:32:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

topazg <graham@blessyou.co.uk> wrote in news:D 7h8mc$e5i$1@news.vol.cz:

> - Several pass_wall monsters, like earth elementals, are now not
> considered immaterial by traps or martial arts.

Why would an earth elemental be entirely immaterial to traps and
martial arts?

Earth elementals presumably pass through walls because they are
passing through "earth." I wouldn't expect an earth elemental to
be able to pass through a giant block of ice as it wouldn't be
outright immaterial.

Besides, isn't there the whole legend of a guy beating an
earth powered warrior specifically by using unarmed wrestling to
lift it off the ground?

As for traps, well, we don't exactly know what traps are made
of or what triggers them so it is hard to argue either for or
against that one.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 3:32:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 23:32:44 GMT, Billy Bissette
<baines@coastalnet.com> wrote:

>topazg <graham@blessyou.co.uk> wrote in news:D 7h8mc$e5i$1@news.vol.cz:
>
>> - Several pass_wall monsters, like earth elementals, are now not
>> considered immaterial by traps or martial arts.
>
> Why would an earth elemental be entirely immaterial to traps and
>martial arts?

They shouldn't be. That is presumably why it was changed.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:02:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Billy Bissette <baines@coastalnet.com> wrote in
news:Xns9667C6D1B13C8whacholookinat@207.69.189.191:

> topazg <graham@blessyou.co.uk> wrote in news:D 7h8mc$e5i$1@news.vol.cz:
>
>> - Several pass_wall monsters, like earth elementals, are now not
>> considered immaterial by traps or martial arts.
>
> Why would an earth elemental be entirely immaterial to traps and
> martial arts?

Never mind, misread that one. And removed questions/comments on
others, making my post fairly pointless.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:18:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Jeff Greene" <nppangband@spam.spam.spam.spam,> wrote in message
news:Fv-dnRk2cOg6fQHfRVn-oA@comcast.com...

"Andrew Doull" <andrewdoull@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 7hnsk$qp5$1@news.vol.cz...
> > On 2005-05-31 12:59:41, "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey, that would be cool. How is Unangband going? I never managed
to try
> > > it out, but definitely would if this was implemented. Great idea
:) .
> > >
> >
> > I'm just pottering around at the moment. I'd like to adopt 4gai
completely
> > (movement has been in for a while) but Unangband's terrain code
allows grids to
> > allow los but not projection and vice versa. Given that Leon has
said that the
> > projection code in Sangband was possibly the hardest coding he has
done; its a
> > little discouraging.
>
> I will be tackling this problem in NPP very soon. I am adopting
> the UnAngband terrain code, and I have to figure this out. I have
> no idea when NPP 050 will be out, but your solution will be in there.

(reply to both) I am certainly happy to help bat about ideas.
Unangband terrain is way cool.

Dealing with terrain that blocks LOS or projection, or both, or
none, is certainly doable. For the basic algorthms of field of sight,
line of fire, and projection, all you probably really need to do is
use some new CAVE_INFO flags. I'd personally start with my current
"project()" code, test, and implement the new flags as necesary. It
might take a while to nail down the last few buglets - the devil is
in the details - but you should have a playable system, one that the
players can help test, in fairly short order.
June 1, 2005 3:12:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Juho Schultz wrote:
> magnate wrote:

> > You'll have to tone down the nastiness of Disease, Sickness and
> > Envenomation then, because at the moment they tend to make people
> > willing to ignore mushrooms altogether, especially if they're not
> > playing a druid or something with loads of hp.

> I think ignoring mushrooms is a mistake.
>
> The bad mushrooms are not that bad if you have good mushrooms...
> Curing helps against Disease and Cure Poison helps against Envenomation.
>
> Note that the changes also include:
> "Many nasty mushrooms have special effects when thrown..." so you don't
> have to eat the deadly ones unless you really want the experience.

Does that mean they can be ID'd by throwing? If that's the case then
all is well, but I'll be surprised! Off to try it out ...

CC
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 4:16:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

magnate wrote:
> topazg wrote:
>
>>Mushrooms appear in larger piles when well in-depth. This is currently
>>just a trial run, but I want people to actually be willing to carry and
>>use mushrooms, even given a limited inventory space.
>
>
> You'll have to tone down the nastiness of Disease, Sickness and
> Envenomation then, because at the moment they tend to make people
> willing to ignore mushrooms altogether, especially if they're not
> playing a druid or something with loads of hp.
>
>

I think ignoring mushrooms is a mistake.

The bad mushrooms are not that bad if you have good mushrooms...
Curing helps against Disease and Cure Poison helps against Envenomation.

Note that the changes also include:
"Many nasty mushrooms have special effects when thrown..." so you don't
have to eat the deadly ones unless you really want the experience.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 7:55:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> wrote in message
news:jFSme.30251$8S5.16414@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> Website:
> http://runegold.org/sangband/
> [...]

Enjoying the new version, but for some strange reason the base delay
factor isn't working as it should. Loaded up the IBM version, put the base
delay on 30 (max), with a gnomnish sorceror. Firing magic missiles yet the
animation isn't seen...I've saved and reloaded, making sure the preferences
are OK but to no avail.

Help?

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 7:55:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> wrote in message
> news:jFSme.30251$8S5.16414@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>> Website:
>> http://runegold.org/sangband/
>> [...]
>
> Enjoying the new version, but for some strange reason the base delay
> factor isn't working as it should. Loaded up the IBM version, put the
> base
> delay on 30 (max), with a gnomnish sorceror. Firing magic missiles yet
> the animation isn't seen...I've saved and reloaded, making sure the
> preferences are OK but to no avail.

That problem is caused by a bug in the libc library of the DJGPP compiler
that was used to build the DOS version. The delay() function from the
library doesn't work perfectly with the DOS emulation code in Windows 2000
and XP. The issue is fixed in the CVS repository of the DJGPP project, but
there hasn't been a new DJGPP release yet containing this fix.

The problem can be fixed by patching the DJGPP libc library and recompiling
the Sangband DOS version.

Quick libc update instructions for developers:
- get the latest delay.c file from
http://www.delorie.com/bin/cvsweb.cgi/djgpp/src/libc/do...
- compile the new delay.c file in DJGPP with "gcc -c -O2 delay.c"
- update the DJGPP libc with "ar rvs c:/djgpp/lib/libc.a delay.o" (change
the path if DJGPP is not installed in "c:/djgpp/")
- then rebuild the *band DOS version

Leon - can you please try that?

--
Robert Ruehlmann ( rr9@thangorodrim.net )
"Thangorodrim - The Angband Page" : http://www.thangorodrim.net/
Visit the #angband chat channel at irc.worldirc.org
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 8:06:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote in message
news:429d5024@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> wrote in message
> news:jFSme.30251$8S5.16414@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>> Website:
>> http://runegold.org/sangband/
>> [...]
>
> Enjoying the new version, but for some strange reason the base delay
> factor isn't working as it should. Loaded up the IBM version, put the
> base delay on 30 (max), with a gnomnish sorceror. Firing magic missiles
> yet the animation isn't seen...I've saved and reloaded, making sure the
> preferences are OK but to no avail.
>
> Help?
>

Out of curiosity I d/l-ed the windows version. The base delay works fine
there.
If this is a problem on everyone's machine (please if you have the time
can you test?) then I'll try to debug it.

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 8:06:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:

> Out of curiosity I d/l-ed the windows version. The base delay works fine
> there.
> If this is a problem on everyone's machine (please if you have the time
> can you test?) then I'll try to debug it.

Working OK here - OSX/Carbon.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
June 1, 2005 11:19:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Nice so far...but I got few strange messages once every so often.
i.e.
(Monster name) at [x,y] got too many moves [moves x][y/z]

But I'm simply playing, is it something from debugging mode ?

Cheers,
Peter.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 8:02:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 01:36:40 -0400 Leon Marrick wrote:

LM> Website: http://runegold.org/sangband/
LM> Source: http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-src.zip
LM> IBM (plain, full screen)
LM> http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-ibm.zip
LM> Windows (multiple windows, sound)
LM> http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-win.zip

Small wishlsit: Can you add "big screen" cupport to x11 version? I mean
ANGBAND_X11_COLS_0 and ANGBAND_X11_ROWS_0 support ('0' is _main_ window?) or
(in other words) ability to resize the main vindow. All other windows
resised correctly now.

This feature works correctly in V, O, NPP and Heng, but not in your great
variant.

serge@matveev spb ru Serge Matveev & ...
ICQ 3575357
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:26:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

magnate wrote:
> Juho Schultz wrote:
>
>>magnate wrote:
>
>
>>>You'll have to tone down the nastiness of Disease, Sickness and
>>>Envenomation then, because at the moment they tend to make people
>>>willing to ignore mushrooms altogether, especially if they're not
>>>playing a druid or something with loads of hp.
>
>
>>I think ignoring mushrooms is a mistake.
>>
>>The bad mushrooms are not that bad if you have good mushrooms...
>>Curing helps against Disease and Cure Poison helps against Envenomation.
>>
>>Note that the changes also include:
>>"Many nasty mushrooms have special effects when thrown..." so you don't
>>have to eat the deadly ones unless you really want the experience.
>
>
> Does that mean they can be ID'd by throwing? If that's the case then
> all is well, but I'll be surprised! Off to try it out ...
>
> CC
>
I think you can not ID them by throwing.
But if a thrown mushroom kills a novice rogue, you can inscribe rest of
the stack with !E and wait until you have a stack of curing mushrooms.

BTW, it would be nice if monsters eating the deadly mushrooms
from your inventory would take damage (Harpies are SO annoying.)
June 2, 2005 5:47:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Juho Schultz wrote:
> magnate wrote:
> > Juho Schultz wrote:
> >>magnate wrote:

> >>>You'll have to tone down the nastiness of Disease, Sickness and
> >>>Envenomation then, because at the moment they tend to make people
> >>>willing to ignore mushrooms altogether, especially if they're not
> >>>playing a druid or something with loads of hp.

> >>I think ignoring mushrooms is a mistake.
> >>
> >>The bad mushrooms are not that bad if you have good mushrooms...
> >>Curing helps against Disease and Cure Poison helps against Envenomation.
> >>
> >>Note that the changes also include:
> >>"Many nasty mushrooms have special effects when thrown..." so you don't
> >>have to eat the deadly ones unless you really want the experience.

> > Does that mean they can be ID'd by throwing? If that's the case then
> > all is well, but I'll be surprised! Off to try it out ...

> I think you can not ID them by throwing.
> But if a thrown mushroom kills a novice rogue, you can inscribe rest of
> the stack with !E and wait until you have a stack of curing mushrooms.

Good idea, thanks.

> BTW, it would be nice if monsters eating the deadly mushrooms
> from your inventory would take damage (Harpies are SO annoying.)

Hmm, another neat idea. Do harpies have IM_POIS? If not then they
should certainly get splatted! I like the idea of them polymorphing if
they eat a mushroom of metamorphosis!

CC
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 5:40:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-05-30 22:36:40 -0700, "Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> said:

> Source:
> http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-src.zip

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but this doesn't seem to come with a
Makefile. I'm cobbling one together myself from NPP. Could you
include that in the next distribution?

Thanks!

Christian
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 1:04:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Christian Claiborn wrote:
> On 2005-05-30 22:36:40 -0700, "Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> said:
>
>> Source:
>> http://runegold.org/sangband/files/sang-src.zip
>
>
> I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but this doesn't seem to come with a
> Makefile. I'm cobbling one together myself from NPP. Could you include
> that in the next distribution?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Christian
>
Have a look at the src/system/ ... makefiles are there.
June 3, 2005 1:22:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-06-01 21:19:36, Peter <KasperskiP@acn.waw.pl> wrote:

> Nice so far...but I got few strange messages once every so often.
> i.e.
> (Monster name) at [x,y] got too many moves [moves x][y/z]
>
> But I'm simply playing, is it something from debugging mode ?
>

Next...erm..bug(?)...If you forge a weapon (I only tried weapons so far...),
then quit+save, after reloading all forged items lose "forged from
copper/whatever" flag, even when "I"nspecting them.
More (I'm afraid..) to come...
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 9:23:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Peter <KasperskiP@acn.waw.pl> wrote:
>>Nice so far...but I got few strange messages once every so often.
>i.e.
> (Monster name) at [x,y] got too many moves [moves x][y/z]
>But I'm simply playing, is it something from debugging mode ?

I've gotten the same thing as well. (Cave Spiders, in my case.)
It happened every few player turns for maybe a hundred turns or so, and
then went a way for a while, after which I got maybe 20 messages again
over a short while, and then it stopped again. The only Cave Spiders I
found were sleeping, though I'm guessing this makes no difference.


Otto Martin
--
<XnD> Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand
http://bash.org/?277337
June 4, 2005 8:39:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I think all the files in the windows binary archive are set to
read-only. Change those and it should work.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 3:29:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Using the window binary download, it is seeming that Sang 18 isn't properly
saving window settings.
I run 4 windows Game, Messages in Term 1, InventoryEquip in term 2, and
Monster Recall in term 3. Everytime I start I need to reset all the windows
locations and font sizings. The game remembers the settings to display in
the windows properly.

Also, the game turns sound on on every startup, I can turn it off, but the
next time I play yhat char it is back on.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:00:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Madman" <themadman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117928362.848329.64850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I think all the files in the windows binary archive are set to
> read-only. Change those and it should work.
>

Thanks! Will try that!
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 2:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"William Klett" <cyclops@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:LPqoe.8260$lI2.6160@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Using the window binary download, it is seeming that Sang 18 isn't
> properly saving window settings.
> I run 4 windows Game, Messages in Term 1, InventoryEquip in term 2, and
> Monster Recall in term 3. Everytime I start I need to reset all the
> windows locations and font sizings. The game remembers the settings to
> display in the windows properly.
>
> Also, the game turns sound on on every startup, I can turn it off, but the
> next time I play yhat char it is back on.

This is, I think, intended behaviour. There is a line in the *.ini file
which states ``turn off read-only if you want this to change''. So do that
;) .

Damnit! My fifth gnome wizard taking 4 skills only is dead :/ . He was
going so well, too, with wonder. It doesn't deserve a post of it's own, but
the situation was:

- Get quest for a bazillion water spirits.
- Go lvl up a bit to get wonder.
- Smack around water spirits, wormtongue, kill kill kill. Man I love
wonder.
- Find the very last water spirit. By this time wormy froze my potions (or
I drank them) and salamanders burned all my scrolls. No prob, 0% fail on
phase...and these water spirit things are no trouble anyway. He hones in a
little and I zap him good with wonder. Bang bang, almost dead...then zzt
haste. Ah well, no prob.... zzzt clone. Clone!! Argh...phase away, try
zapping them again. Good old gravity ball, kills the injured one (Quest
Complete!) then the other is right on my tail with me having very little
mana left. It is at this time that I regret the last cast of wonder, me at
3 MP and only now realising that all my scrolls and potions have gone
*poof*.
If I wasn't playing only 4 skills (chose stealth, spellcasting, wizardry,
magical power) then I could have just wacked it to death.

Onto the next ;) .

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 2:08:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-06-05 02:08:39, "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:

> Damnit! My fifth gnome wizard taking 4 skills only is dead :/ . He was
> going so well, too, with wonder. It doesn't deserve a post of it's own, but
> the situation was:
>
> - Get quest for a bazillion water spirits.
> - Go lvl up a bit to get wonder.
> - Smack around water spirits, wormtongue, kill kill kill. Man I love
> wonder.
> - Find the very last water spirit. By this time wormy froze my potions (or
> I drank them) and salamanders burned all my scrolls. No prob, 0% fail on
> phase...and these water spirit things are no trouble anyway. He hones in a
> little and I zap him good with wonder. Bang bang, almost dead...then zzt
> haste. Ah well, no prob.... zzzt clone. Clone!! Argh...phase away, try
> zapping them again. Good old gravity ball, kills the injured one (Quest
> Complete!) then the other is right on my tail with me having very little
> mana left. It is at this time that I regret the last cast of wonder, me at
> 3 MP and only now realising that all my scrolls and potions have gone
> *poof*.
> If I wasn't playing only 4 skills (chose stealth, spellcasting, wizardry,
> magical power) then I could have just wacked it to death.
>
> Onto the next ;) .
>

Ah. You're playing a 4 skill character too? I'm doing wrestling, throwing,
perception and armor forging (To try to cover spell resistance holes)...

Andrew

--
Unangband L:C E+ T- R- P+ D-- G+(+) F:Sangband RL-- RLA-- W:F Q++
AI+(++) GFX++ SFX++ RN+++(+) PO++ Hp+++ Re--(+) S++ C- O* KG--
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 2:08:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote in message
news:42a24287$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "William Klett" <cyclops@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:LPqoe.8260$lI2.6160@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Using the window binary download, it is seeming that Sang 18 isn't
>> properly saving window settings.
>> I run 4 windows Game, Messages in Term 1, InventoryEquip in term 2, and
>> Monster Recall in term 3. Everytime I start I need to reset all the
>> windows locations and font sizings. The game remembers the settings to
>> display in the windows properly.
>>
>> Also, the game turns sound on on every startup, I can turn it off, but
>> the next time I play yhat char it is back on.
>
> This is, I think, intended behaviour. There is a line in the *.ini file
> which states ``turn off read-only if you want this to change''. So do
> that ;) .
>

Personally I think making the configuration file read only is inane,
especially for those of us that aren't code warriors. But, heh, hopefully
that will fix the problems.

Trying my first 'pure' Wizard type. So used to abusing Karate, that this
time I am going without. It does force a bit of generalism, dodge, saves,
magic items usage, maybe will try forging as well.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:55:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Andrew Doull" <andrewdoull@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 7tns3$1rtl$1@news.vol.cz...
> On 2005-06-05 02:08:39, "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:
>
>> Damnit! My fifth gnome wizard taking 4 skills only is dead :/ . He was
>> going so well, too, with wonder. It doesn't deserve a post of it's own,
>> but
>> the situation was:
>>
>> - Get quest for a bazillion water spirits.
>> - Go lvl up a bit to get wonder.
>> - Smack around water spirits, wormtongue, kill kill kill. Man I love
>> wonder.
>> - Find the very last water spirit. By this time wormy froze my potions
>> (or
>> I drank them) and salamanders burned all my scrolls. No prob, 0% fail on
>> phase...and these water spirit things are no trouble anyway. He hones in
>> a
>> little and I zap him good with wonder. Bang bang, almost dead...then zzt
>> haste. Ah well, no prob.... zzzt clone. Clone!! Argh...phase away, try
>> zapping them again. Good old gravity ball, kills the injured one (Quest
>> Complete!) then the other is right on my tail with me having very little
>> mana left. It is at this time that I regret the last cast of wonder, me
>> at
>> 3 MP and only now realising that all my scrolls and potions have gone
>> *poof*.
>> If I wasn't playing only 4 skills (chose stealth, spellcasting, wizardry,
>> magical power) then I could have just wacked it to death.
>>
>> Onto the next ;) .
>>
>
> Ah. You're playing a 4 skill character too? I'm doing wrestling, throwing,
> perception and armor forging (To try to cover spell resistance holes)...
>

Yeah, every night after I get home from work and people are asleep, I play
a bit of the new .

It's a bit more of a challenge for me than the warriors, since I've won
with one all-rounder, a warrior-mage character, a more pure warrior (but
still something like 10 skills) and died in the final battle with morgoth
with a druid/monk type character. Most of them had quite a few skills,
including perception, spell resistance, magical devices (even Oath of Iron
guys, they just forged things with Magic Mastery (which rocks) ) and
forging.

So I've yet to get an Oath of Spellcasting [sic] guy to make it very far,
and I don't think I've had any characters with less than 7 skills past stat
gain.

My next few Buggerbys (the trickster gnome wizard/alchemist) will go back
to my regular 4 skills (tried stealth this time to see if it would help the
noise from spellcasting, but it doesn't seem to...): magical devices and the
spellcasting 3.

Good luck with your 4-skill guy. I think that is a good combo. It's
really hard to say goodbye to the forging skills. As a warrior, perception
is just too good to pass up (especially in the early game, then again in the
late game). Not sure if I'd change any of those 4 skills, except perhaps
try to go without armour forging ;) . I wonder how you'll be able to cope
with the lack of a decent saving throw? My gnome is planning on divide and
conquer for that, using all the tricks available to a master wizard.

To Leon: with the score, I would really like to see some kind of bonus
scoring (as in a big bonus) to characters taking a small number of skills.
Maybe bonus points for killing a monster when you have less than X skills?
I don't think this is already taken into account (but if so feel free to
ignore me).

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 9:33:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Andrew Doull" wrote:

> Leon, why don't you do something that I'm seriously considering for
Unangband,
> and have Slingers, Sharpshooters and various other archer monsters
carry a
> stock of ammunition in their inventory, that they use up as they fire.
This
> way, you have a controllable upper limit for these monsters of how
many shots
> they have, plus make archer and thrower player characters have access
to basic
> ammuntion types by killing particular monsters.
>
> Plus, its cool to have the Manticore carry a whole lot of iron
spikes...
>
> For bonus points, have the projection types for these monsters 'drop'
ammunition
> over the place (except for a breakage chance), that they can then
collect up to
> fire again.

That sounds like lots of fun. I'll do it eventually ... or I can always
wait for you to do it and nick your code! :-)
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 9:51:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"magnate" wrote"

> > restored the Angband calculation of HP increases due to high CON,
>
> Does this mean you reintroduced the breakpoints?? I thought you were
> quite pleased with the smooth progression (0.25hp/lev per CON
> increment) ...

Nope, the smoother progression is still there.


> > Minor bug in the recovery of luck fixed.
>
> What was this? I hadn't noticed it.

I forget, actually... :-*


> Excellent - did you consider adding a "wariness" attribute to
monsters,
> as Jeff has done in NPP? They still tend to talk into traps that they
> saw me set up!

Added to the "possibilities" file.


> > Disease is a bit nastier and less easy to resist strongly. Those
> > wererats are best killed from a distance.
>
> Have Mushrooms of Disease been toned down at all? They were a bit too
> deadly as it was ...

Yes. Scott Yost took care of that problem. As long as you are moving
at at least normal speed.


> > Player ghost names are now displayed correctly in the extra monster
> > health bars.
>
> One thing that came up in the comp threads - could we have a birth
> option to turn off player ghosts? It would help level the playing
field
> for comps (saves all players having to clear out their bones dir). It
> would also be nice for those of us who hate player ghosts!

*grumblegrumblegrumble*

If *loads* of people really do not like player ghosts, then OK.


> > Certain objects now shimmer, and branded weapons now appear in
color.
>
> What, unID'd?

Yep. :-)


> > When playing either ironman or with closed stores, dungeon levels
always
> > have food lying on the floor. While it might just be Slime Molds if
you
> > get unlucky, some food will always be available.
>
> That's interesting - in the current comp I had plenty of problems
> finding light sources & oil, but never any problem finding food. What
> made you think you needed to make more food available?

Paranoia. I truly dislike starving.


> > New talent to start and stop saving empty bottles and parchments,
available
> > with an Alchemy skill of 10.
>
> Neat.
>
> > Bugfixed the monster pack code. Critters with semi-random movement
will
> > less often wander into LOS if they're supposed to be hiding.
However, I
> > have not yet fixed the problem with large packs forcing some of its
members
> > into LOS.
>
> Is this really a huge problem? Packs would be even harder if this
never
> happened, and the 4GAI makes them tough enough as it is. Especially
for
> a non-burglar.

Yeah, the packs really do need a bit of work. Ranged weapons just
slaughter them.


> > Revised the object infusion screens for clarity, wrote new docs
(available
> > when infusing objects by typing '?'). This should make infusion
much
> > easier to understand and make use of.
>
> Excellent. Any changes to random vs. infused forging? Are high-level
> random forges still going to produce such uber items?

No, forging (especially the pvals you get) is a bit toned down, but you
can still expect them to compete with most artifacts. Bladeturner, of
course, will remain in a class of its own...


> > Monsters will no longer try to use limited-range beam and arc spells
out of
> > range.
>
> This reminds me - the stormcrow's buffeting wind thingy seems to have
a
> huge range. It hit me from over ten squares away, even though the
> graphic only extends about five squares. Which one is wrong?

Not sure. I'll look out for this.


> > Some monster ranged attacks (boulders, arrows, etc.) and all
physical
> > missiles fired or thrown by the character are subject to inaccuracy.
The
> > actual target will differ slightly from that intended. For
relatively
> > close-range fire, this will make almost no difference; at long
range, the
> > effects can be quite interesting. This change is another benefit
for
> > sneaking about in the dark.
>
> Will this effect reduce with high skill, so that specialist archers
can
> still kill things at long range?

Yes. Target "shifting" is almost eliminated with a high skill.


> > The character automatically shifts between bare-handed methods if
the
> > current one has had much less investment in it than the other. The
major
> > effect of this is to make certain that novice wrestlers properly
wrestle,
> > instead of trying to use karate.
>
> This sounds like it would make it impossible to practice karate once
> you'd got your wrestling up beyond a certain point, and vice versa.

Let me know if this is indeed a problem.


> > Removed Ulfang and Uldor, two uniques without much in the way of
uniqueness.
>
> But we still have Ulfang's sons??

Oops. Meant to say that Uldor and Ulwarth are gone. Ulfang and his son
Ulfast are still around.


> > Most things, including artifacts, that made levels "special" now do
not.
> > Only quest levels and those with active player ghosts are considered
> > "special". This improves the ability of the level feelings to give
you
> > information, and playtesting indicates that the artifacts are not
too hard
> > to find and discover.
>
> Noooooo!! Argh. Might as well do without level feelings altogether
> then.

We'll see how this plays out. If it doesn't work, we can always go
back. Same comments apply to pretty much any change.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 9:53:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Wim Benthem" wrote:
> >Comments and suggestions are always appreciated, especially as the
game
> >is fine-tuned for Version 1.0.0.
> >
> >A special thanks to Scott Yost and also to Eddie Grove!
> >
> I got a quest for 42 novice priests. Isn't that a bit much?

"You can never have too many novice priests".

(jesting aside, I'll look into this)
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 10:03:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter" <KasperskiP@acn.waw.pl>
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.angband
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: Sangband beta 18 available.


> On 2005-06-01 21:19:36, Peter <KasperskiP@acn.waw.pl> wrote:
>
> > Nice so far...but I got few strange messages once every so often.
> > i.e.
> > (Monster name) at [x,y] got too many moves [moves x][y/z]
> >
> > But I'm simply playing, is it something from debugging mode ?

Angband (all variants) hasn't solved the "movement clumping" problem.
The messages you are getting indicate that Sangband hasn't solved it
either.

Drat and double drat. Please, when you see these messages, do send me
the savefile.


> Next...erm..bug(?)...If you forge a weapon (I only tried weapons so
far...),
> then quit+save, after reloading all forged items lose "forged from
> copper/whatever" flag, even when "I"nspecting them.

Will be fixed in the next version.


> More (I'm afraid..) to come...

I'm grateful for all the bug reports I get!
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 10:08:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"William Klett" <cyclops@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Q4uoe.20381$k43.11351@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> Personally I think making the configuration file read only is inane,
> especially for those of us that aren't code warriors. But, heh,
hopefully
> that will fix the problems.

I quite agree. Or it could be a maintainer industriously copying over
the default files without unchecking the "read-only" attribute. But
whatever be the truth, it is definately NOT intended behavior.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 1:59:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> wrote in message news:5nKoe.58867$lQ3.4471@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> > One thing that came up in the comp threads - could we have a birth
> > option to turn off player ghosts? It would help level the playing
> field
> > for comps (saves all players having to clear out their bones dir). It
> > would also be nice for those of us who hate player ghosts!
>
> *grumblegrumblegrumble*
>
> If *loads* of people really do not like player ghosts, then OK.


I did add this option in NPP, but for a very different reason. Since the goal of NPP is to take features from variants and put them in more of a vanilla-like setting, I made many NPP features (quests, store services, player ghosts, and one or two others) optional. Turning them all off gives game that is a fairly close to Vanilla with 4gai.

But, since the Sangband development objectives are completely different, this reasoning probably won't cut it for you. I think you will find that most people really like/love them and a minority really hate them.

-Jeff
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:21:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

In article <5nKoe.58867$lQ3.4471@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
Leon Marrick <invaid@runegold.org> wrote:
>> > When playing either ironman or with closed stores, dungeon levels
>always
>> > have food lying on the floor. While it might just be Slime Molds if
>you
>> > get unlucky, some food will always be available.
>>
>> That's interesting - in the current comp I had plenty of problems
>> finding light sources & oil, but never any problem finding food. What
>> made you think you needed to make more food available?
>
>Paranoia. I truly dislike starving.

It seems to me to be defeating part of the point of ironman.


--
Julian Lighton jl8e@fragment.com
/* You are not expected to understand this. */
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:21:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

jl8e@fragment.com (Julian Lighton) writes:

> >Paranoia. I truly dislike starving.
>
> It seems to me to be defeating part of the point of ironman.

I'd put it differently. If starvation is not meant to be a realistic
concern in ironman mode, then it is cleaner to simply disable the food
mechanic completely.

--
Bahman Rabii
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:21:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:21:00 -0000, jl8e@fragment.com (Julian Lighton)
wrote:

>In article <5nKoe.58867$lQ3.4471@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
>Leon Marrick <invaid@runegold.org> wrote:

>>Paranoia. I truly dislike starving.
>
>It seems to me to be defeating part of the point of ironman.

Even more importantly, the point of eating. If you're never in danger
of running out of food, even in ironman play, you might as well remove
the whole hunger and eating process. It serves little purpose in *band
anyway, as it doesn't serve its normal function as a time-limiter.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:58:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Leon Marrick" <invaid@runegold.org> wrote in news:5nKoe.58867$lQ3.4471
@bignews5.bellsouth.net:
> "magnate" wrote"

>>> The character automatically shifts between bare-handed methods if
> the
>>> current one has had much less investment in it than the other. The
> major
>>> effect of this is to make certain that novice wrestlers properly
> wrestle,
>>> instead of trying to use karate.
>>
>> This sounds like it would make it impossible to practice karate once
>> you'd got your wrestling up beyond a certain point, and vice versa.
>
> Let me know if this is indeed a problem.

Got to admit I don't really like the idea either if you leave no
way to override the switch.

Otherwise you would have to micromanage all your unarmed combat if
you want to avoid having to overpay to advance, keeping both roughly
the same and trying to keep both practiced by constantly raising the
weaker before it falls out of practice.

>> > Most things, including artifacts, that made levels "special" now do
> not.
>> > Only quest levels and those with active player ghosts are
considered
>> > "special". This improves the ability of the level feelings to give
> you
>> > information, and playtesting indicates that the artifacts are not
> too hard
>> > to find and discover.
>>
>> Noooooo!! Argh. Might as well do without level feelings altogether
>> then.
>
> We'll see how this plays out. If it doesn't work, we can always go
> back. Same comments apply to pretty much any change.

Why make the quest and ghost levels the special ones?

The player already knows quest levels. He's told what depth it is
at when he takes the quest. He's told what depth it is when he checks
the quest screen. He's told by a special message a short time into
the level itself. If you want to improve the ability of level feelings
to impart information, I would think removing quest levels from the
label would be the start, not the opposite.

I don't remember, but isn't there already also a special message for
player ghosts as well?

Wouldn't such a change make the level feeling less informative,
being primarily reduced to only meaning a player ghost is present?
And not even knowing that when you hit a quest level. (Which you
should be able to recognize before you even get a level feeling,
really.)


Though level feelings aren't that useful these days anyway. They
mattered back before preserve was added or heavily used by *band
players. But now they really just seem to mark things like whether
levels have some kind of special room (pits or vaults or similar).
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 7:00:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Bahman Rabii <bahman@oangband.com> wrote in
news:1118018145.f6db8ccfd8f6df9b3ea53b02482b44cc@teranews:

> jl8e@fragment.com (Julian Lighton) writes:
>
>> >Paranoia. I truly dislike starving.
>>
>> It seems to me to be defeating part of the point of ironman.
>
> I'd put it differently. If starvation is not meant to be a realistic
> concern in ironman mode, then it is cleaner to simply disable the food
> mechanic completely.

Starving does still serve a purpose in Ironman, even if the risk is
reduced.

The risk of starving is what keeps a player from remaining on the
same level killing monsters as they generate, rather than proceeding
to the next level. If you remove food concerns entirely, then the
only concern would be turn counts.


The place where starvation isn't a realistic concern is the
regular game. Has anyone starved to death since the old days of
perma-paralysis (like floating eyes) or getting trapped by explosive
breeders (giant white louse and maybe hummerhorns) that couldn't kill
you but could keep you from moving?

Short of very bad run ins with a few nuisance monsters that destroy
your food (harpies, glutton ghost, etc), is there really ever even any
risk of starvation outside of Ironman play?

It just seems to be a method to burn an inventory slot (on food or
scrolls of satisfy hunger or even an amulet of sustenance), offer a
new spell type (various class versions of satisfy hunger), and offer
a very minor item ability (amulet and other methods of slow digestion.)
What is isn't is a risk, outside of a few very limited situations and
outside of Ironman mode.
!