I want to set something straight

[Guest]

Alright I have been reading the messageboard for awhile and I see lots of people who like to lead people to buying intel systems as AMD is supposed to have heat problems and so on. Although I ask my self the question all of these people who are flaming AMD, have they ever built a AMD system? If you did and had troubles your a probably stupid and don't know how to put a system together then or you bought cheap parts.

I have been building AMD systems recently as I switched from intel and all these problems I hear on the messageboard have been un true.

You like to hear people saying my thunderbird melted cause I didn't put a heat sink on. Well you shouldn't own a computer if you are that stupid to start a processor up without a hsf. Personnaly I use a alpha hsf on all the systems I build and it keeps them at around 37 degrees with artic silver thermal paste.

The next issue with compatablity issues. For some reason I have only seen one sign of this. When my friend tryed to put together a AMD system and he bought some cheap motherboard from MSI. I came over couldn't figure out what the problem was, so I went back to my house and grabed a ASUS a7v I had lying around put it in, and everything worked perfectly.

I think though if you are looking to build a system Intel Or AMD don't buy cheap stuff it will always cause you problems in the end. Stick with the top end motherboard manufactures such as ASUS and ABIT it will give you a lot less problems.

 

[Crashman]

You, my friend, are an idiot. I have built many systems of all kinds, I know what kind of problems VIA chipsets, on which most Athlon motherboards are based, can indeed be problematic. There are many cards that have conflicts with them, although this is becomming less common it still happens. It will take the average new system builder 2 to 3 weeks to fix all the bugs in a system with such incompatabilities, and even an expert like me several hours. Yes, I know what I'm doing. I have built over a thousand systems, and it was always my system that had the worst problems because of my mistake of choosing the BEST parts available at the time. The more cards you use, the more likely you are to have conflicts. These are mostly self-fixing on an Intel, but manually fixed on an AMD/VIA. Just downloading all the patches can take over an hour. I hear the new ALI does much better. BTW MSI is a major manufacturer and for the most part respected in the industry.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[kal326]

Well lets see, I had a Classic Athlon 600. Tried boards from both Asus and MSI to replace the board in my IBM(only got it from best buy because my laptop had to be replaced and they would only give me store credit) which worked perfectly fine but the preformance sucked compared to the MSI and Asus boards. Win98SE worked just fine with a graphics card. However, add a sblive(on its on IRQ), a NIC(Also on own IRQ), and a game(any one will do). What we get is a hard core lock with sound repeating. I worked on this problem for over 3 months. I tried two differant video cards, the memory from the IBM(Micron PC100 cas2), PC133 cas2 also from micron and the 600 Athlon. I followed every setup instruction, only using the vid card to install windows, then the AMD inf update. Then the rest of the drivers and cards. I tried two MSI 6167 boards and one Asus slot A board all 751 north bridge boards. Same problem on all the boards except the IBM board which was made by Enigma(makes boards for gateway, IBM, and other OEMs). Well needless to say AMD has left a bad taste in my mouth in the ways of hardware compatability. Oh, Win2k wouldnt even run stable enough on any of those AMD systems either. Have I had any of these problems with Intel based motherboards and chips, no. Have I had problems with multiple AMD boards yes. Now do I flame AMD no, do I openly scream out the wonders of Intel, no. However I have built and used both personally and AMD some of these problems that I and others have mentioned. So I would like answer your question, not everyone that has problems with AMD is stupid or uses cheap parts. It just might be that in this wonderful thing called reality AMD products have had and may still continue to have compatability flaws. Sorry to piss on your little AMD parade.

 

[sparks219]

I don't mean to flame AMD, I really like their processors, they're really good for the money. Just their chipset and compatiability really concerns me. My friend has a K6-400 on an asus board. When he got an ATI raedon DDR, the card won't work properly in his system. He tried 2 days to fix it and no luck, so he had to return such a nice card (christmas present)

I'm not saying that Intel based systems don't have any compatability problems, but I think they have a lot less problems when compared to similar AMD systems.

Sparks

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Good Goddess you're dumber than a wet adobe brick.

It is a very rare event to see anyone flame an AMD product here. People will often suggest an Intel product to people NEW to putting together a system. Why? Because MANY people have problems putting together an AMD system, no matter how experienced they are.

And just why is that? It's VIA's fault. They make crappy chipsets that cause the oddest of errors with other hardware. And if you contact VIA tech support for help, they'll flat out tell you that the problem isn't THEIR chipset, it's YOUR hardware for not being up to their standards. Granted, this hardware can be up to everyone else's standards and have been produced by the top-of-the-line hardware companies. And it'll work just fine in an Intel chipset based motherboard.

VIA is bringing AMD down badly. The AMD chips are good. But the VIA motherboards are a nightmare.

So for people who have never put a system together before, it's a very good idea for them to use an Intel chip in an Intel chipset motherboard. It has nothing to do with performance or price. It has nothing to do with which CPU is better. It's just simply how much easier it is to put together the system and get all of the hardware working properly.

And if YOU haven't ever run into problems like THAT putting together an AMD system, then obviously YOU don't have much experience putting AMD systems together.

- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

 

[DSutcliffe]

I'm with you man, I put systems together all the time and I recommend AMD to people just because of the Cost/Performance advantage that AMD holds.

My personal system is listed below and I haven't had any problems that have been described on this board, no IRQ sharing issues, nothing.

So here's the process I went through:

Installed WinME (Windows autorecognized my network card so I had Internet immediately)
Downloaded and installed the latest Via 4-in-1 drivers
Downloaded and installed the latest Promise Raid drivers
Installed Video drivers from the CD
Downloaded and installed the SB LiveWare 3.0 drivers.

That's it, no "special" process. I even used a stock hsf.

To date the only problem I have had was with one particular game, Rogue Spear, would lock up after a few minutes of playing. I knew this wasn't a platform problem as I could play Ureal Tournament for hours with no issues. I visited the tech support web site which stated to download all the latest drivers. I thought that I had the latest drivers and they were full of [-peep-]. Upon looking closely there were new reference drivers from nVidia but no new drivers from my card manufacturer. I downloaded the reference drivers and installed them after which I have not had one lock up problem with my computer.

So take it for what it's worth but I don't even know if I could troubleshoot an incompatible card or an IRQ conflict as I have never had either problem with any AMD or Intel system I have ever built.



T-Bird 800Mhz
2X IBM 75GXP 30GB in RAID0 config
Geforce2 32MB
SB Live

 

[FUGGER]

Well said Pheonix,

"And if YOU haven't ever run into problems like THAT putting together an AMD system, then obviously YOU don't have much experience putting AMD systems together."

I have ordered prebuilt AMD systems that died withen 2 minutes of powering up, with stock fan installed. thermal issue? Can't blame me for not building it correctly.

I have built systems that burnt up so fast that by the time I heard beeps it was too late. I used a "antec" HSF. I have seen many reports since then about "Antec" fan failures. cant blame that on builders. Antec makes crappy PSU too BTW.

Try and read some posts, notice all the AMD problems with thermal related issues? I guess they are all liars and sucky computer builders huh?

The rest are incompatability issues, I guess they are liars too?

And I will not go into the power supply issue...

Everything is built to Intel standard NOT AMD.

A majority of AMD problems are with the VIA shitset, err chipset. VIA is a trainwreck in progress =)

 

[Guest]

I agree with you fugger on one thing partially. Somethings are built on the intel standard not Amd standard.

That would include some of the more popular benchmarks.
Read the latest article about how an x Intel benchmark developer had to say about how intel likes their benchmarks coded @ theregister.co.uk. It is an eye opening article for those of us naieve enough not to have guessed it already.

AMD products are reliable, stable, high performance pieces of equipment on par if not better than their intel equivelent @ a better price.

My suggestion to you fugger next time you buy cheap crappy pre-assembled systems, buy from a reputable system builder that uses quality parts. Please don't post to tell us that the systems were from reputable box makers cause dude your arguement just does'nt hold water.

 

[Guest]

To suggest that the remarkable number of posts on this site asking for help with a sick VIA/AMD puter is a fluke (after fluke, after fluke) is just plain dumb.

1. Intel systems outnumber AMD systems.
2. You don't see many Pentium system problems here.

Are you suggesting that builders of AMD chip based systems are inordinately HS/fan challenged ? Do they suffer from sick hardware driver syndrome ? Are they that bad at choosing hardware partners ?

PLEASE

It is apparently very difficult to screw up a heatsink installation on a flip chip mount (must be a flaw in the design).

AMD can't get Inside Intel, so they will never be part of the advanced knowledge and planning of chipset design. The best way for AMD to shake this problem is to sink capital into chipset development. Otherwise, they will always count on the vagaries of an independent company for stability and compatibility (not to mention long term survival strategy and profits).

 

[Crashman]

Why don't you see too many Intel systems in here? Because intel owners in here don't usually post as often. They simply have no need to ask as many questions and no reason to know as many answers.
If AMD wants to raise sales, all they have to do is start an advertising campaign. I think the only reason they don't is because they are already operating their plants near capacity. Either that or their marketing department is stupid.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[jg38141]

Slvr phoenix, please don't say goddess, it shows that you have to much faith that women are all powerful and that us men are somewhat lesser. Any man who's ever seen a woman drive knows this is simply not true.
As far as fugger's coments- always biased based on no factual information as usual, I'd just ignore them. If he has a problem with amd systems he's probobly doing it wrong. I just had a hell of a time with a p3 ghz I was working on today, though much like AMD I seriously doubt it was the chips fault. It was a Dell demention who's geforce 2 GTS went bad. Amd chips don't have problems. Fugger's do.

ILLEGALISE BULLETS

 

[Guest]

My wife and I have built many computers all using AMD cpu's. We have used a variety of Asus MB's and have NEVER had a compatibility problem with any of them.
Last weekend I built a AMD 1.2ghz on a Asus K7V mb w/512 ram, Plexwriter 8/20 SCSI, Asus 50x cdrom, Creative 12x DVD, 1 IBM 9 gig HD, 1 IBM 30 gig HD, 1 Maxtor 15 gig hd, Asus 3400TNT video card and a 100 Meg ZIP drive. My wife built an AMD 1 ghz on a Asus K7V mb w/512k ram and both are running flawlessly. I also have an Athlon 750 oc'd to 900 that has been running flawlessly for over a year without a shut down running Seti 24/7. Also one AMD K6-2 550 on a Asus P5A mb running Linux and a AMD K6-3 450 on a P5A mb running Linux. All our computers are networked with a router and switch with a print server.
You say that you have built thousands of systems and when you build for yourself you have trouble. Sorry, I wouldn't let you build a system for me.
Whether one uses Intel or AMD is not the point. Both do their job well. I just get tired of the name calling and the my chip is better than yours.

 

[Crashman]

Look, the only reason most AMD systems I built on VIA chipsets worked, yet Mine did not (without a lot of hassle to fix all the bugs) is that I use better parts and more cards in mine. The VIA AGP bus does not crash unless you push it. The configuration issues do not arise unless you use several cards. Since my system is completely filled and I always use top-notch video cards in my system, but my customers systems are built with very few cards and older graphics, the simpler sytems obviously were less likely to have problems. The BEST AMD systems I have built have all been on Intel chipsets-K6/2's using Intel chipset motherboards, using the 2x=6x multiplier trick. While they may be outdated, they just work more reliably!

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Crashman]

Guns don't kill jg38141, bullets do! LOL


Suicide is painless...........

 

[Guest]

As a first time system builder, and long time intel owner, I read up on the amd system i wanted to build, I bought the parts i wanted, I assembled it and it was 80percent stable uppon first boot, then after installing the patches that amd has right on their page. (took about 3 seconds to download not an hour) the system is rock solid and stable. and i have never had a heat issue, incompatability issue, game problem or anything, i think it comes down to good planning and buying quality components, I dont think an excuse to build an intel system should be that you can use crappy parts and it still runs, personally i dont care if it is intel or amd i want quality parts in there that will work. I still built this system for about half of what it was going to cost me to build an intel system. and am building another for my friend, if a person building a system for the first time can have more luck than someone who has built a thousand systems then you should probably do a little more research and reading and upgrading your technique and less time bashing companys that make parts. if an intel system would have been the price of this one i would have bought that, i dont have a preference, i just dont make stupid decisions that waste my money. (ie not looking into what parts work and what doesnt) I dont know many people that decide in 5 minutes to buy a new computer and just run out and grab random parts, if your going to invest a large amount of cash, then plan it out. and you will have great success no matter what system you build.

anywho it just gets tiring to hear people bashing a system they dont own, or that they put together with duct tape out in the sun.

i have had plenty of issues with my intel system but if you look you can usually find a fix, and its the exact same story with amd.

sometimes i think you guys must work for intel the way you get all pissed off that someone likes a different processor. do you get that angry when you see someone with a different make car than you?

keee ripes.

just incase anyone is wondering what systems i am running now.

Amd 900mhz athlon
Globalwin FOP32-1 with arctic silver
Asus A7V bios 1005c
windows 2000 pro
Soundblaster live value
Asus V7700 Geforce 2 GTS Deluxe
Enermax 330watt ps
D-link NIC
256mb PC133 infineon Ram
I have 2 hard drives, a 10 gig and 3, from other systems.
Zip drive
DVD Rom Drive
and had dual monitors running with an old ati rage pro turbo card, but decided my desk was to cluttered with two monitors so i took the other one off.

I also have an Intel Pentium II 400
God Knows who made the mother board
no idea what heatsink
it has onboard video so it is frustrating as hell that i cant put a new agp video card in it.
196mb ram, CD-RW Drive, CD Rom Drive. Voodoo 2 card, SOundblaster live x gamer, linksys NIC, 40gig and 8 gig hd's

both systems run like a charm. and i would have to say the intel system was about twice the work to get to function properly, i cant even install a clean copy of windows 98 on it it crashes half way though the install. but windows 2k works fine and i prefer it anyways.




If you overclock an Intel Processor enough, it will turn into an AMD. True Story.

 

[Guest]

Amen, DAMeek. Anyone that's put together a thousand systems and can't get his own machine to work without hours of trouble is not someone I'd have much confidence in.

I am the sole network/system admin for a company that has 65 workstations. 50 of those machines are running white box Athlons using a wide assortment of add-in cards and motherboards. Since I'm the guy responsible for fixing these things when they break, I can assure you that I wouldn't run Athlons if they caused me a lot of headaches. They don't!

 

[tfbww]

I don't know as that's exactly true, Crashman (re: why intel owners don't post as much). I think you are partially correct but I also think that AMD is currently the homebuilder's choice (since it is the better Priceerformance, which is what the homebuilder is usually looking for). The builders are the ones who have the questions and actually know about THG, or at least disproportionately so compared to your average Dell/Best Buy/Gateway/CompUSA consumer, and so therefore post more often about the components relevant to them (i.e. AMD).

Just a thought.

 

[Crashman]

Some of my problems with my own system was that I bought parts BEFORE anyone figured out that they had compatbility problems with VIA's AMD chipsets. So I bought hot new parts that should have worked and then found out later that they would not work. In some instances it took WEEKS for software patches to be released. The other problem stemmed from VIA's lack of quality in system configuration-I had a full load of cards, and always had to pull two or three just to get the system to load, then install the remainder one at a time until everything was configured. As a former AMD devotee, I always hated Intel for anti-competitive practices. But after years of going through the motions with VIA/AMD, I got tired of fixing things all the time. BTW AMD does have a more powerfull processor, I will probably build one as soon as better chipsets become widely availble.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Guest]

Crashman, can you give me a link to an article discussing all the incompatabilities the current VIA chipset have? I'm just not finding any information on it. I do, on the other hand, hear many reviewers talking about how mature, stable, and compatable KT133(a) chipsets are.

 

[Guest]

When ever I have computer problems I go out to the garage and light up a nice Joint. The more problems the better.

Take Care.

Take Care.
If money was no object, how could you spend it!

 

[Crashman]

It's possible, but then again whenever I am in a computer store everyone ask for PIII. I think most of it is brand recognition.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Guest]

It is brand thing, People know who intel are... It is slowly changing and the more it does the stronger the competition, the cheaper the parts the faster we go for our money...... why should wee complain when we are the winners.....

M

one of the first UK T-Bird users....

 

[tfbww]

Intel *definitely* has a better brand name in the general pop. which has led to mucho sales but I struggle thinking that is why it has less posters here. THG Community is definitely *not* representative of the general pop. By far, they are more technically-inclined, high-end users (power gamers, video editors, CAD/CAM, etc.) and much more likely to DIY (Beelzebub will be ice skating to the office before people here bring their computers to CompUSA to get more RAM or a vid card installed). Nor do I believe that Dell is the primary purchase place for this community and they are the largest seller of pentium systems I would imagine. I think these factors skew this community to AMD. imho, of course

 

[FUGGER]

Its not an issue when the problem is not posted here daily.
If someone can go one day without bringing then its not an issue.

Kinda like the MTH problem of last year. its not mentioned here daily. its not an issue anymore.

"AMD Puppies" are blind when it comes to any negative comments very quickly dismissed and non factual and then you try to discredit the poster.

Give me a break, I know most of you can read. Take a fricken minute and look at a majority of the posts on THG. But I guess they are all liars in "AMD puppies" eyes, and those are just people who cannot build systems like the pro that you are.


Non-factual is AMD CPU keychains, that are piling up and just about ever computer repair shop. due to this "non-existant" thermal problem.

AMD geeks quit trying to be so one sided on this issue. I know that it upsets you in the replies trying to discredit me.

 

[Guest]

Agreed, i have moved from Intel to AMD, and haven't regreted it. No patches needed, and runs very fast, with a realistic price tag. Yes they get hot when you hit the 1GHZ range, but the CPU wil handle 90C, so it doesn't really matter.And if it bothers people, they can go install another fan or heatsink.