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Angband 3.0.6 released

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Anonymous
June 19, 2005 2:57:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

A new Angband version is now available as:

Source code:
ftp://ftp.thangorodrim.net/pub/angband/Source/angband-3...

DOS version:
ftp://ftp.thangorodrim.net/pub/angband/DOS-386/angband-...

Windows version:
ftp://ftp.thangorodrim.net/pub/angband/Windows/Angband-...

Mac OS X version:
ftp://ftp.thangorodrim.net/pub/angband/Macintosh/Angban...

David Gervais' 32x32 tiles:
ftp://ftp.thangorodrim.net/pub/angband/Extra/graf-32x32...

Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
- Renamed the artifact short sword 'Gilettar' to 'Dagmor' since that
name is mentioned for the sword of Beren in Tolkien's notes.
(suggested by Tyler Witter)
- Added a new type of subwindow for displaying the dungeon area around
the player.
- Added a new subwindow type "Display player (compact)" that displays
the left-hand-side of the main term (player stats, hitpoints, gold,
...) in a separate window.
- Added a new window type that displays the info from the status line.
- Turned the "scroll map while targetting" option permanently on.
- Added a display of the temporary resists to the status line. The
resists are only displayed if there is enough room after the dungeon
level (when using a main or status term with at least 85 cols).
The verbosity of the output (between "Acid Elec Fire Cold Pois" and
"AEFCP") depends on the term width.
- Display the player's speed in the character dump and on the info page.
- Identified scrolls can now look different from unidentified ones.
This allows the use of the individual scroll tiles created by David
Gervais.
- Allow the ammo-branding activation of 'Cubragol' to be aborted without
using up the charge. (Diego Gonzalez and Jeff Greene)
- Use actual monster and object symbols instead of a list of hardcoded
symbols when hallucinating.
- Added Craig Oliver's Sound FX Patch version 1.1 that adds about 120
new sound events to the game.
(see also http://www.chambrook.org/angband/soundfx.php)
- Scroll the map when the player is 1/4th of the visible grids away from
the edge of the map display.
- Allow the OS X version to be started from a read-only medium, for
example from a disk image or a central installation under
'Applications'. All user-specific files like savefiles, scores,
char-dumps, and saved preferences are stored in
'Library/Preferences/Angband/' and its subfolders inside the user's
home directory.
- The Mac OS X application bundle now includes all the necessary files
from the lib folder. The separate lib folder in the distribution is
no longer necessary. This means that the OS X version can now be
installed by simply dragging the application icon to the target
directory.
- The OS X version would crash when changing the sound or graphics
options before a character was created or loaded. (reported by Patrick
Hughes)
- Don't save the Mac OS X preferences on exit if the game hasn't been
initialized properly to prevent corruption of the preference file in
case of an error at startup. Skip loading the preference file if it
is broken. (problem reported by Matt Stone)
- Include the basic Angband sound files per default in the OS X version.
- Made the tile size independent of the font size in the X11 version.
Store various window settings like the window size between sessions.
- Don't add a hardcoded 'games' subdirectory to the installation path on
multi-user machines.
- Allow all user created files to be saved in subdirectories under
~/.angband/Angband/ when PRIVATE_USER_PATH is defined.
- Allow the use of the 'vcs' display module on systems with devfs-style
'/dev/vc/*' terminals.
- The virtual console (vcs) front-end does now implement cursor
visibility and bigscreen support. (Alexander Ulyanov)
- Enable cursor visibility in the "gcu" front-end on Linux systems.
(Alexander Ulyanov)
- Fixed a bug in the Xaw frontend, which made Angband crash if the main
window geometry was specified as an X resource. (Alexander Ulyanov)
- Make X11 frontends show floors as centered dots, walls as blocks, and
treasures as diamonds. (Alexander Ulyanov)
- Removed the restriction of bigtile mode to the main window in the X11
version.
- Added Alexander Ulyanov's Linux framebuffer display module from:
http://posband.earthsea.org/misc/angband-lfb-20050220.t...
- Added compile instructions for MinGW/MSYS on Windows. (Tuomas
Härkönen)
- Added compile instructions for gcc on Mac OS X.
- Fixed a stupid bug that could cause the game to hang or crash when
killing quest monsters near the edge of the dungeon. (Ivan Tuckwell
and Dr. Andrew White)
- Added missing tiles and tile assignments for the 32x32 tiles. (Ivan
Jekic and David Gervais)
- The charges of rods of perception weren't handled correctly when
compiling with scripting turned off. (reported by "Twilight" and Jeff
Greene)
- Cursed speed rings should not increase the level feeling. (Anssi
Ramela and Jeff Greene)
- Refresh the list of visible monsters after (Mass) Banishment,
Earthquake, and Destruction spells, when using the 'delete nearby
monsters' function in debug mode, as well as when pressing Ctrl-R.
("Twilight")
- Don't try to write zero-length blocks when saving the lib/data/*.raw
files. (suggested by Juha Niemimaki)
- Corrected the item description for scrolls of recharging. (reported by
Hugo Kornelis)
- Fixed a Angband 3.0.6 alpha 1 specific crash with the Mac OS X 10.4
(Tiger) caused by releasing a reference that should not be released.
(reported by Harry Erwin)
- The experience loss as a result of one of the One Ring's activations
is now 1/4 of both max and current experience instead of the
unintended reduction of max exp by 3/16 of the current experience.
(Hugo Kornelis)
- Cleaned up the handling of experience draining when the player has
Hold Life. The fixed part of the exp drain by nether breaths is now
also reduced by Hold Life. (Hugo Kornelis)
- The 'star ball' activation fired one ball more when scripting was
enabled. (Hugo Kornelis)
- The object description for the 'cure wounds' activation reads
"activates for cure wounds (4d7)", but it actually cures 4d8 points of
damage. The description has been fixed. (Hugo Kornelis)
- The "recharge item" artifact activation can now be canceled at the
"Recharge which item" prompt without draining the artifact's charge.
(Hugo Kornelis)
- The symbol for the Shield of Deflection was a light blue [ instead of
a ) like all other shields. (Hugo Kornelis)
- Reduced the price for "Raal's Tome of Destruction". (Hugo Kornelis and
Timo Pietila)

--
Robert Ruehlmann ( rr9@thangorodrim.net )
"Thangorodrim - The Angband Page" : http://www.thangorodrim.net/
Visit the #angband chat channel at irc.worldirc.org

More about : angband released

Anonymous
June 19, 2005 2:57:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Thanks Robert for your efforts,
specially for OSX.

Have you had any deep thoughs on how Mac OSX on intel will work ?

T.
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 4:54:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

konijn_ wrote:
> Thanks Robert for your efforts,
> specially for OSX.
>
> Have you had any deep thoughs on how Mac OSX on intel will work ?

Angband already runs on both big-endian and little-endian systems and
doesn't do any of the other things that could break when switching from PPC
to Intel either. The Mac specific main-crb.c code is the only part that
isn't tested daily on x86 processors. And a quick glance shows no obvious
issues in that code either. So there isn't much to worry about from the
portability side.

A simple recompile with Xcode 2.1 should generate a working universal binary
that runs natively on both architectures. Creating the initial Xcode
project file shouldn't be too tricky.

And any PPC-only OS X binaries will run just fine under Rosetta. Rosetta
has a few limitations, but none of them should affect Angband binaries in
any way.

Note: Old variants that only come with pre-OSX Mac binaries won't run on
x86-based Macs anymore since the Classic environment is gone. So these
have to be ported to OS X to be directly playable on Macs with Intel
processors.

--
Robert Ruehlmann ( rr9@thangorodrim.net )
"Thangorodrim - The Angband Page" : http://www.thangorodrim.net/
Visit the #angband chat channel at irc.worldirc.org
Related resources
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 8:44:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
> Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
> - Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.

Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.

--
"...there are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot
easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes into
work every day and has a job to do." [Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"]
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~aa343/index.html
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 10:18:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Robert Ruehlmann <rr9@thangorodrim.net> writes:

> A simple recompile with Xcode 2.1 should generate a working universal binary
> that runs natively on both architectures. Creating the initial Xcode
> project file shouldn't be too tricky.

Xcode project? We don need no steekin Xcode project. :-)

Here's what worked for me. It's just a plain vanilla X11 build, but making
a Carbonated build should be pretty much the same. The build is done in two
passes, one for each architecture, and then the "lipo" tool is used to fuse
the two together into a single "fat" binary.

One minor hiccup is the "tolua" tool. You need to build the ppc binary first,
then set aside the "tolua" tool for later use, because the i386 "tolua" that's
built as part of that binary won't run on ppc.

So, here's what worked for me:

### start ###

# Set up the environment
# The CFLAGS line is long and might wrap - sorry :-(
export SDK=/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk
export CFLAGS="-nostdinc -B$SDK/usr/include/gcc -B$SDK/usr/lib/gcc -isystem$SDK/usr/include6"
export LDFLAGS="-Wl,-syslibroot,$SDK"


# Configure and build
../configure
make


# Make some copies we'll need later
cp src/angband src/angband.ppc
cp src/lua/tolua src/lua/tolua.ppc

# ...clean up everything else
make clean

# Repeat to make an i386 build
CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -arch i386" ./configure --build=ppc --host=i386
make

# "make" will stop with an error, because it can't run the "tolua"
# it just built. Fix that with:
cp src/lua/tolua.ppc src/lua/tolua

# ...and then finish the make
make

# Build should succeed this time.

# Rename the i386 binary
mv src/angband src/angband.i386

# Finally, use "lipo" to stitch the two together into one "fat" binary
lipo src/angband.i386 src/angband.ppc -output src/angband -create


### end ###

After the dust settled, I got this:

file src/angband

src/angband: Mach-O fat file with 2 architectures
src/angband (for architecture i386): Mach-O executable i386
src/angband (for architecture ppc): Mach-O executable ppc

As I said, it's a plain vanilla build that uses X11, not Carbon. And,
although it runs perfectly on my G4, I obviously don't have an Intel
Mac on which to test that. And last but not least, the procedure would
need to be slightly different on an Intel Mac, where the PPC version
would need the extra "-arch" CFLAG and configure options.

sherm--
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 10:51:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Sherm Pendley <sherm@dot-app.org> writes:

> # The CFLAGS line is long and might wrap - sorry :-(
> export SDK=/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk
> export CFLAGS="... -isystem$SDK/usr/include6"
^
Eeep. How did *that* sneak in there? Damn fingers never type what
I tell 'em to... :-(

sherm--
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 5:21:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Joseph William Dixon wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
>
>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
>
>
> Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.
>

Yes, this does seem strange to me. What was the reasoning behind this
change? Are we trying to increase the value of the scrolls and spells
of Recharge, make non-mage classes more "competitive" or what?

I admit, I'm flummoxed. (Of course that's not exactly earth-shattering
news, but nonetheless...)

--
Wil Hunt
Geek in training.
Jack of few trades, master of none.
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 11:27:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Is anyone else having trouble with "make install"? Whenever I run it (yes,
as root) it just tells me "nothing to do" for a bunch of directories, and
doesn't actually install anything...
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 11:51:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I have just rejoined this group after a *long* absence, and so probably
missed the discussion about this, but I am a bit confused about the
window scrolling...why does the view jump at 25% away from the edge
now? My inventory will fill with rods just to keep up with my
customary detection cycle at screen change (currently playing a
warrior).

Could someone please fill me in on the reasons for this change?
Perhaps understanding will make it less frustrating...
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 12:46:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-06-19 09:44:11, Joseph William Dixon <aa343@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
> > Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
> > - Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
> > backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
>
> Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.
>


Yay, I'm gonna whore staves of Healing, Speed and Summoning because I can.

--
AKA Yumi_Saotome on #angband
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 2:52:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"dstillwa@gmail.com" <dstillwa@gmail.com> writes:

> I have just rejoined this group after a *long* absence, and so probably
> missed the discussion about this, but I am a bit confused about the
> window scrolling...why does the view jump at 25% away from the edge
> now? My inventory will fill with rods just to keep up with my
> customary detection cycle at screen change (currently playing a
> warrior).

Explore the dungeon left to right, without going up/down too much,
and it shouldn't take that much more detection, I hope.


Eddie
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 8:41:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

dstillwa@gmail.com wrote:
> I have just rejoined this group after a *long* absence, and so probably
> missed the discussion about this, but I am a bit confused about the
> window scrolling...why does the view jump at 25% away from the edge
> now? My inventory will fill with rods just to keep up with my
> customary detection cycle at screen change (currently playing a
> warrior).
>
> Could someone please fill me in on the reasons for this change?
> Perhaps understanding will make it less frustrating...
>

That was changed because of numerous instadeaths from offscreen breaths.
Try seachhing trough groups.gooogle.com for 'offscreen instadeath' from
rgra.

That was what happened my last warrior, he landed next to Zoo, noticed
that ESP didn't show all monsters from inside pit, 'z'apped rod of
detection, and then was stunned, heavily stunned and knocked out by
offscreen plasmahounds from long corridor. He has no chance.

- donalde -
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 11:33:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.nospam.mail.com> wrote:
>Explore the dungeon left to right, without going up/down too much,
>and it shouldn't take that much more detection, I hope.

This sounds lika a pretty horrible solution. Game-play shouldn't be
changed because of the way screens are usually shaped.


Otto Martin - hmm, I wonder if I could find a good square font...
--
"I could use a feelings reset on a regular basis."
"Don't you think that's kind of sad?"
http://www.megatokyo.com/index.php?strip_id=471
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 3:16:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-06-19 21:27:19, Edward Kolis <ekolis@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> Is anyone else having trouble with "make install"? Whenever I run it (yes,
> as root) it just tells me "nothing to do" for a bunch of directories, and
> doesn't actually install anything...
>
>

I had another problem. It seems that the file "main-lfb.c" is missing. I had to
remove all references to it in makefile.std to be able to compile the game (X11
port)

-Diego
June 21, 2005 5:30:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

If you don't want to wait for an updated release, angband.oook.cz has a
link to the Vanilla CVS archive. The file is there.
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 6:41:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Robert Ruehlmann <rr9@thangorodrim.net> writes:

> Wil Hunt wrote:
>
>> Joseph William Dixon wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
>>>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
>>>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
>>>
>>> Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.
>>
>> Yes, this does seem strange to me. What was the reasoning behind this
>> change? Are we trying to increase the value of the scrolls and spells
>> of Recharge, make non-mage classes more "competitive" or what?
>
> That change was actually an (over-)reaction to the destruction of a whole
> stack of perception staves while recharging them. I *hate* losing objects
> to destructive effects such as a failed recharge. The fact that other
> players also complained about that added to that decision. I think I went
> a bit overboard with my "solution".
>
> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> anyone?

Well, only-use-one-at-a-time should be how *everything* works. The
current system wherein stacked wands/staves share charges is broken.
If you have a wand with 0 charges and you pick up a wand with 10
charges, you should not end up with two wands containing 5 each.
Similarly flavored objects should still stack even with different
pvals IMO.

I would like to see an inventory such as

(q) three staves of perception { ?, 9, 0 }

meaning that you have 3 stacked staves with the corresponding charges,
and the '?' means you don't know that one [except for the fact I think
you should always know the exact number of charges when aware :) ].

I plan to implement pval-stacking some day. If I ever get around
to it, perhaps you will be interested.


Eddie
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 2:44:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

In article <m3aclj75gy.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>,
Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote:
>Well, only-use-one-at-a-time should be how *everything* works. The
>current system wherein stacked wands/staves share charges is broken.
>If you have a wand with 0 charges and you pick up a wand with 10
>charges, you should not end up with two wands containing 5 each.
>Similarly flavored objects should still stack even with different
>pvals IMO.
>
>I would like to see an inventory such as
>
>(q) three staves of perception { ?, 9, 0 }
>
>meaning that you have 3 stacked staves with the corresponding charges,
>and the '?' means you don't know that one [except for the fact I think
>you should always know the exact number of charges when aware :) ].
>
>I plan to implement pval-stacking some day.

It shouldn't be that hard. We've already got support for linked lists
of objects (floor stacking, monster inventory). You either need an
extra inventory space for stacked items, or you can use the main
object list, though you'd need to protect them from compaction and
when changing levels.


--
Julian Lighton jl8e@fragment.com
/* You are not expected to understand this. */
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:04:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Wil Hunt wrote:

> Joseph William Dixon wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
>>
>>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
>>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
>>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
>>
>> Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.
>
> Yes, this does seem strange to me. What was the reasoning behind this
> change? Are we trying to increase the value of the scrolls and spells
> of Recharge, make non-mage classes more "competitive" or what?

That change was actually an (over-)reaction to the destruction of a whole
stack of perception staves while recharging them. I *hate* losing objects
to destructive effects such as a failed recharge. The fact that other
players also complained about that added to that decision. I think I went
a bit overboard with my "solution".

I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
anyone?

--
Robert Ruehlmann ( rr9@thangorodrim.net )
"Thangorodrim - The Angband Page" : http://www.thangorodrim.net/
Visit the #angband chat channel at irc.worldirc.org
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:08:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Diego Gonzalez wrote:

> On 2005-06-19 21:27:19, Edward Kolis <ekolis@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Is anyone else having trouble with "make install"? Whenever I run it
>> (yes, as root) it just tells me "nothing to do" for a bunch of
>> directories, and doesn't actually install anything...
>
> I had another problem. It seems that the file "main-lfb.c" is missing. I
> had to remove all references to it in makefile.std to be able to compile
> the game (X11 port)

Doh' - I added that file to Makefile.std, but not to the automake/autoconf
Makefile.am that also determines which files are included in the source
tarball. I have fixed that now and will release a new source archive soon.

Lesson learned: Test as many of the Makefiles as you can before releasing.
Even if './configure', 'make', and 'make install' work - other makefiles
and/or targets might not. I'll write myself a small test batch that tests
various combinations for one of the next releases.

--
Robert Ruehlmann ( rr9@thangorodrim.net )
"Thangorodrim - The Angband Page" : http://www.thangorodrim.net/
Visit the #angband chat channel at irc.worldirc.org
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:16:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Edward Kolis wrote:

> Is anyone else having trouble with "make install"? Whenever I run it (yes,
> as root) it just tells me "nothing to do" for a bunch of directories, and
> doesn't actually install anything...

Angband doesn't install itself system-wide by default. Instead it just puts
the 'angband' executable into your Angband directory. You can then start
it from there with "./angband". That way no root access is required to
install the game. To install it somewhere else, for example under
"/usr/local/games/", please take a look at the "GNU/Linux or Unix + GCC"
section in the compile.txt file.

--
Robert Ruehlmann ( rr9@thangorodrim.net )
"Thangorodrim - The Angband Page" : http://www.thangorodrim.net/
Visit the #angband chat channel at irc.worldirc.org
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:36:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
> Wil Hunt wrote:
>
>
>>Joseph William Dixon wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
>>>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
>>>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
>>>
>>> Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.
>>
>>Yes, this does seem strange to me. What was the reasoning behind this
>>change? Are we trying to increase the value of the scrolls and spells
>>of Recharge, make non-mage classes more "competitive" or what?
>
>
> That change was actually an (over-)reaction to the destruction of a whole
> stack of perception staves while recharging them. I *hate* losing objects
> to destructive effects such as a failed recharge. The fact that other
> players also complained about that added to that decision. I think I went
> a bit overboard with my "solution".
>
> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> anyone?
>

Can a staff be cursed?
* Set it cursed on failed recharge.
* let recharge and activation chance suffer a tiny bit when cursed.
* let failed recharge of a cursed staff destroy it
(or one out of a stack of cursed staffs).

Or, perhaps (if possible) set number of charges to '-1' when failing
recharge, and start destroying staffs when failing to recharge a staff
(or stack of staffs) that has -1 charges.

Both these methods can be 'partly avoided' by recharging only one staff
at a time, and thus not marking many staffs at once; but that is
possible today.. well 3.0.5.. too. only you can avoid losing more than
one staff at once by (trying to) recharge only one at a time.

My $2 gold ;) 

tormodh.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:51:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Billy Bissette <baines@coastalnet.com> writes:

> Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in
> news:m3aclj75gy.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com:
>
>> I would like to see an inventory such as
>>
>> (q) three staves of perception { ?, 9, 0 }
>>
>> meaning that you have 3 stacked staves with the corresponding charges,
>> and the '?' means you don't know that one [except for the fact I think
>> you should always know the exact number of charges when aware :) ].
>
> But is it worth the annoyance of adding another keypress to select
> which specific wand of a stack you want to use, recharge, sell, drop,
> etc?

One obvious approach is to have default behavior 'u' and more specific
behavior with <cntrl>-'u' [which then prompts for the one to use]. I
haven't thought it all the way through, but I bet it can be mostly
painless. When recharging, dropping, selling, using, etc most of the
time the best choice is the one with the least charges [obviously not
0 if you plan to expend a charge].

Another option is for things with (y/n) checks, to allow the
change there. So for a drop from slot q
d q
(n / a[?] or b[9] or c[0] or y[0])
Pretty yucky, but something along those lines might be feasible.


Eddie
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 6:50:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in
news:m3aclj75gy.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com:

> I would like to see an inventory such as
>
> (q) three staves of perception { ?, 9, 0 }
>
> meaning that you have 3 stacked staves with the corresponding charges,
> and the '?' means you don't know that one [except for the fact I think
> you should always know the exact number of charges when aware :) ].

But is it worth the annoyance of adding another keypress to select
which specific wand of a stack you want to use, recharge, sell, drop,
etc?

Rods can get by because it doesn't matter which rod you zap, as
there is no long term effect. Wands and staves are different, in that
if their charge amounts are kept separate, you might really care.
(If Sangband assigned paper and vial material at creation to scrolls
and potions, yet still stacked all of the same magic/effect type, the
same would be true there.)

And I admit personally being bugged that people are going through such
workarounds to the arbitrary item count limit (stacking, quivers, etc)
with no one willing to just remove the limit itself. (Though removing
the limit entirely would itself complicate the item interface.)
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 11:26:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

> >>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
> >>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
> >>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
> >>
> >> Oh, joy. Infinite charge wands & staves.

> That change was actually an (over-)reaction to the destruction of a whole
> stack of perception staves while recharging them. I *hate* losing objects
> to destructive effects such as a failed recharge. The fact that other
> players also complained about that added to that decision. I think I went
> a bit overboard with my "solution".

> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> anyone?

Thank god you realize this is a very umbalancing change :) 
Personally, i dislike changes that make the game easier and
as I rarely play [V], i didnt say anything at the moment.
IMHO, the risk of losing is the main point of rechargable
devices... and should be there
I have better ideas, based on other sussesfully implemented
solutions of other variants:

1. Decrease the damage of rods (and/or increase damage
of wands/staves) to make using wands worth the risk of losing them.
Variants where i saw this: Heng, [O]

2. Make recharging chance to blow based on class/char and
low chance to explode everything, but A CHANCE!. Taken
from [O], table of failing recharge:

Mages:
+-------+-----------+-------+-------------+-------------+
| Type | No Effect | Drain | Blow Up One | Blow Up All |
+-------+-----------+-------+-------------+-------------+
| Staff | 50% |-------| 50% |-------|
| Wand|----------| 33% | 67% | -------|
| Rod |----------| 90% | 10% |-------|


Non-Mages:
+-------+-----------+-------+-------------+-------------+
| Type | No Effect | Drain | Blow Up One | Blow Up All |
+-------+-----------+-------+-------------+-------------+
| Staff | ------------| -------| 100% | -------|
| Wand| ------- |--------| 80% | 20% |
| Rod | ---------| 67% | 33% | -------|

ack posting tables in oook... Heng table is slighty different
but much like [O]. I don´t know how it works in [V]
Here, the chance of blowing a stack is only 20% to wands
to other classes than priest/mage.

3. Make more noticeable the influence of activation levels of
wands/staves relative to rods. Wands much easier to activate,
Rods barely activable (if activable) by most low md classes
(especially warriors)... (Heng, [O])

The point is: using wands and staves should be real nice
and smooth; good damage, nicely activable, BUT you
have always the risk to lose them if not mage/priest.
Rods deal less damage, are hard to activate, have to
wait for recharge, etc... but are barely destroyable
by anything, giving the safety of not losing them.

Removing the chance of blow stuff on recharge
would detract from the fun of the game... the risk...
And i like to play dumb half troll warriors that are
always crispy of MD explosions in their face :) 

--
I will hold the candle till it burns up my arm.
I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired.
I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind.
I won't change direction and I won't change my mind...
How much difference does it make?
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:07:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Robert Ruehlmann wrote:

>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
>>>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
>>>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.

> That change was actually an (over-)reaction to the destruction of a whole
> stack of perception staves while recharging them. I *hate* losing objects
> to destructive effects such as a failed recharge. The fact that other
> players also complained about that added to that decision. I think I went
> a bit overboard with my "solution".

To prevent total destruction I have dropped all but one. So this was
just annoying.

> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> anyone?

"Only destroy one" sounds good to me. Maybe "resist destruction" -chance
for high level wands and/or staves.

Timo Pietilä
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 6:22:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:

> Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
>
> >>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Robert Ruehlmann wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Changes since Angband 3.0.5:
> >>>>- Wands and staves are no longer destroyed when a recharge attempt
> >>>> backfires. Instead all the charges are drained.
>
> > That change was actually an (over-)reaction to the destruction of a whole
> > stack of perception staves while recharging them. I *hate* losing objects
> > to destructive effects such as a failed recharge. The fact that other
> > players also complained about that added to that decision. I think I went
> > a bit overboard with my "solution".
>
> To prevent total destruction I have dropped all but one. So this was
> just annoying.
>
> > I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> > recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> > anyone?
>
> "Only destroy one" sounds good to me. Maybe "resist destruction" -chance
> for high level wands and/or staves.
>
> Timo Pietilä

Amen, brother.

Perhaps the design rule should be to automatically what anyone with a
moment to think would do.

--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin&gt;
My neuroscience wikiwiki is at
<http://scat-he-g4.sunderland.ac.uk/~harryerw/phpwiki/in...;
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 11:11:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Robert Ruehlmann" <rr9@thangorodrim.net> schrieb...

> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> anyone?

Sounds fine.

I don't know the code handles recharging of wands/staffs. IMO it should be like:
- Split one item into the temporary item slot (including splitting of charges)
- try to recharge it. If it fails, blow it up
- if it doesn't fail, merge it back with the original stack
- forget the number of charges

So it's one item that can be destroyed. And it's as if i manually seperated
one item for recharging, except that the items are stacked again after a
sucessfull recharge (before identifying).

Werner.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 12:12:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

In article <m3k6km28bv.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>,
Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote:
>Billy Bissette <baines@coastalnet.com> writes:
>
>> Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in
>> news:m3aclj75gy.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com:
>>
>>> I would like to see an inventory such as
>>>
>>> (q) three staves of perception { ?, 9, 0 }
>>>
>>> meaning that you have 3 stacked staves with the corresponding charges,
>>> and the '?' means you don't know that one [except for the fact I think
>>> you should always know the exact number of charges when aware :) ].
>>
>> But is it worth the annoyance of adding another keypress to select
>> which specific wand of a stack you want to use, recharge, sell, drop,
>> etc?
>
>One obvious approach is to have default behavior 'u' and more specific
>behavior with <cntrl>-'u' [which then prompts for the one to use].

Bleah.

I think an option to use fullest or emptiest first would be sufficient.

> I
>haven't thought it all the way through, but I bet it can be mostly
>painless. When recharging, dropping, selling, using, etc most of the
>time the best choice is the one with the least charges [obviously not
>0 if you plan to expend a charge].

It's also much less common, so a submenu popping up is less of a
nuisance, especially if the default's the one with the fewest charges.

--
Julian Lighton jl8e@fragment.com
/* You are not expected to understand this. */
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 12:59:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Werner Bär wrote:

>
> "Robert Ruehlmann" <rr9@thangorodrim.net> schrieb...
>
>> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change
>> the
>> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
>> anyone?
>
> Sounds fine.
>
> I don't know the code handles recharging of wands/staffs. IMO it should be
> like: - Split one item into the temporary item slot (including splitting
> of charges) - try to recharge it. If it fails, blow it up
> - if it doesn't fail, merge it back with the original stack
> - forget the number of charges
>
> So it's one item that can be destroyed. And it's as if i manually
> seperated one item for recharging, except that the items are stacked again
> after a sucessfull recharge (before identifying).
>
> Werner.

Doing it like that will make it harder to enchant a stack of items because
the mean ammount of charges will go up with each successful recharge. It
would be better for the player to completly split the stack and recharge
each staff/wand one after the other.

Well, it is probably already the case for now btw :) 
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:17:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Robert Ruehlmann wrote:

>
> I'll undo that change for 3.0.7 (to be released really soon) and change the
> recharge destruction to a saner "only destroy one" effect. Better ideas
> anyone?
>
Only destroy one seems as good as any solution (given the way staff/wand
stacking works in Angband).

However as an alternative leaving it as was in 3.0.5 (a chance to
destroy all the items in a stack) may be reasonable. You can avoid the
risk by dropping all but one items before attempting a recharge but
doing so takes up extra time so during a battle makes for an interesting
game play decision.

Never really found this feature that broken myself (although I tend not
to use many wands or staves in the end game).

--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 7:08:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in
news:m3k6km28bv.fsf@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com:
> Billy Bissette <baines@coastalnet.com> writes:
>>
>> But is it worth the annoyance of adding another keypress to select
>> which specific wand of a stack you want to use, recharge, sell, drop,
>> etc?
>
> One obvious approach is to have default behavior 'u' and more specific
> behavior with <cntrl>-'u' [which then prompts for the one to use]. I
> haven't thought it all the way through, but I bet it can be mostly
> painless. When recharging, dropping, selling, using, etc most of the
> time the best choice is the one with the least charges [obviously not
> 0 if you plan to expend a charge].

Hrm... Potential standard situations I can see:

1) Use -- If a player had a choice, they'd probably want to use the
lowest non-zero charge item. Both for disposability (in case you decide
to ditch the lowest charge item for weight reasons later) and for
rechargability (as it will be easier to recharge one heavily drained
item versus several lightly drained items).

2) Destroy -- Given otherwise identical items, there is little reason to
destroy anything other than the lowest charged item. As you would
likely want to keep the more powerful as well as more valuable higher
charge versions.

3) Pick Up -- If recharging is adequately handled on its own, the player
would presumably prefer picking up the one with the most charges first.
*Exception: If recharging isn't adequately handled.

4) Drop -- Similar to destroy, the player would presumably generally
want to drop the least charged item.
*Exception: A player "dropping" items into his home will more likely
want to drop the higher charged items first, as in this case he will be
using "drop" to stockpile useful items rather than to potentially
abandon them.

5) Inscribe -- Shouldn't matter?

6) Sell -- More likely will want to sell the lowest charged item first,
but also possible that the player wants to sell a higher charged item
for the increased value (from the extra charges).

7) Buy -- Preference entirely dependent on circumstances. Someone with
free recharge could very well want the cheapest (lowest charged) item
available. Someone that has to pay for recharge may find the highest
charged item to be the best deal. In the case of more expensive and
harder to recharge items, even a player with free recharge might find
paying extra to be better than risking destruction from failure. If
money is currently a concern though then the player may want middling
or even minor charges with spare gold left for other purchases.

8) Recharge -- Generally the lowest charged item would be the prefered
target, but not necessarily always.

9) Throw -- Varies by variant effect? For vanilla and most everything
else, throwing a wand is the equivalent of dropping it. Though it is
possible that a variant already has or perhaps will have some effect
added to throwing a wand or staff (such as activation or chance of
explosion for damage).

10) Using in a Sangband trap -- Varies. While there is no reason to use
a 0 charge item, anything beyond that is a matter of situation and
availability. If you are ditching excess items in traps, then likely
a low charge is desired. If you are trapping the exit path of a pit,
you quite possibly want to use the one with the most charges first. Etc.

I might be missing a few other possibilities.

In most cases, I have assumed a clear preference for either highest
charge first or lowest charge first. Buying is the most likely to vary,
but also perhaps the least likely situation to actually occur in the
case of wands and staves. Selling can possibly vary though, and selling
of items in general would presumably be a rather common occurance that
you would want as streamlined as possible.

All of the above assumes the stacked items are identical except for
charges. If there are other possible variations, such as partial
damage, then things most definitely may change. (While playing
Sangband, I found myself constantly replacing staves of teleportation
when one is damaged. Staff stacking in player inventory isn't present,
but damage status would be a factor if staff stacking was allowed.)

Another note is that with an order preference predetermined, being
able to pick a number of items to drop/sell/etc should still be allowed?
Such as choosing to drop your 3 lowest charge wands at once.

A creature concern is how monsters (or objects, spells, or even
characters) with a drain charge ability will interact with a stack.
Automatically draining all wands in a stack might seem particularly
unfair when the player has to work with one item at a time. Draining
one in a stack might weaken the ability unduly though.

> Another option is for things with (y/n) checks, to allow the
> change there. So for a drop from slot q
> d q
> (n / a[?] or b[9] or c[0] or y[0])
> Pretty yucky, but something along those lines might be feasible.

That could get really annoying really fast. Particularly as the player
will likely have a fixed preference for any particular activity.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 1:52:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Sounds like a reasonable explanation, though I always assumed that
off-screen deaths were one of the risks of play; things to prepare for
well enough to survive and get away from, signs to watch out for that
one is coming (I've lost quite promising chars this way before).

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, as I don't know if others are
experiencing this behavior, but it seems like the shift in screen
re-focus does not work with the "disturb at screen edge" option. When
running, the screen re-focuses, and it seems like I keep moving
afterwards. Is anyone else noticing this?
June 23, 2005 2:17:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-06-22 19:11:37, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Werner_Bär?= <werner.baer@gmx.de> wrote:
> I don't know the code handles recharging of wands/staffs. IMO it should be like:
> - Split one item into the temporary item slot (including splitting of charges)
> - try to recharge it. If it fails, blow it up
> - if it doesn't fail, merge it back with the original stack
> - forget the number of charges
>
> So it's one item that can be destroyed. And it's as if i manually seperated
> one item for recharging, except that the items are stacked again after a
> sucessfull recharge (before identifying).
>
> Werner.
Can someone tell me why the number of charges is unknown after a recharge? I
think it's annoying, at least. If it's built in to avoid abuse of some kind or
another, i can live with that, but tbh i can't see any. Actually, if there's no
other reason I can still live with that, but it will still remain annoying ;) .

--
Mars

Of course there is no formula for success except perhaps an unconditional
acceptance of the RNG and what it brings.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:34:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Billy Bissette" <baines@coastalnet.com> schrieb...

> 1) Use -- If a player had a choice, they'd probably want to use the
> lowest non-zero charge item.

Except when there are monsters around that can destroy/drain charges.
In this case, you want to use the charges equally, to reduce the
potential loss.
This is especially true for items which have a very low number
of charges (say *destruction* or healing). If you have staffs with
2 and 1 charge, you probably want to use the 2 charges staff, to be
sure you have one charge left if one of the staffs get destroyed.

Werner.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 6:48:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, dstillwa@gmail.com wrote:

> Sounds like a reasonable explanation, though I always assumed that
> off-screen deaths were one of the risks of play

It isn't necessary, on many occasions where I dove really deep and had
resist holes I simply would not walk infront of a large tunnel without
detection. Often that meant a lot of digging.

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 11:46:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Mars <mars_the_trader@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:D 9e28d$7fl$1@news.vol.cz:

> Can someone tell me why the number of charges is unknown after a
> recharge? I think it's annoying, at least. If it's built in to avoid
> abuse of some kind or another, i can live with that, but tbh i can't
> see any. Actually, if there's no other reason I can still live with
> that, but it will still remain annoying ;) .

I'd guess because you don't know how effective the recharge is,
as the amount of charges added is random. Sure, you lose a little
extra info, as you know the recharged version has at least as many
charges as it did before the recharge. But you cannot really keep
a decent running count of that kind of detail unless you want charges
displayed as a mathematical formula.
(Like "10 charges + x recharges - 4 uses")
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:59:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I've had troubles after upgrding from 3.0.3 to 3.0.5 and then now 3.0.6
(Windows version) where when I go into the spoiler file menu (spoiler.hlp),
I cannot go to any sub-menus (extra.hlp, monster.hlp, objects.hlp, or
various.hlp) by pushing 1,2,3 or 4. The only way I can access these
sub-menus is to type the '%' symbol and then type the specific file name.
Even within these sub-menus I cannot access any of the specific spoilers
except by using the '%' symbol and typing the exact file name that I want to
look at. Is there a fix for this that I can accomplish without compiling
the code? Or if I do need to compile the code, what files should I edit in
order to be able to use the sub-menus like they were in version 3.0.3 and
previous? Thanks.

Jon Vander Pol
!