Setting the AMD crowd straight

[FUGGER]

I know that you all love posts from me, all the AMD crowd will get all bent over this post im sure.

The thermal, incompatability, and HSF problems with AMD are big ISSUES, untill those problems are not posted here on a DAILY basis I will shove it in your face every chance I get.

If you believe that they are not an issue than your complete idiot. every other posts has something from one of those 3 topics. but you see/call the posts a bunch of lies.

Some of you may claim to have built thousands of computers (LMAO at that joke). but we know better. you would have to build 3 machines @ 7 days a week x 365 days a year to break 1000 machines times several years to be in the thousands. GG on that estimate. A dozen sounds more believeable.

I have only built a few hundred systems from scratch. I have installed thousands over the passed 20 years.

Hello Mr. prebuilt computer maker. please ship my AMD systems with the CPU not installed because 99.9% of this world doesnt know to remove it before shipping. This is a issue that is the source for alot of DOA machines. reports of CPU coming loose during shipping due to increased HSF needed. It is over spec for rating of retaining bracket.

Kinda funny how the quick fix for one problem becomes another problem. AMD should spend some money and correct the thermal problem.

PSU is not much of an issue anymore since its not posted here on a daily basis. I think most companies have done a great job correcting the crappy under spec products they were distributing.

 

[rcf84]

You got a point there FUGGER

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!

 

[Guest]

GRRRRR!!!!! I HATE MY DAD!!!! I HATE ICKY GIRLS!!! IM GONNA TAKE IT OUT ON THE REST OF YOU!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!! I HATE THE WORLD!!!!! IM GONNA GO LISTEN TO THE CURE REALLY REALLY LOUD IN MY ROOM!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

anyway, i bought a duron 800 for really really cheap, now it runs at 1016mhz and never goes above 40 degrees C even under full load...it runs everything and is the best bang-for-the-buck chip i've ever bought. i'm not an amd junkie, if intel comes out with an equivalent chip or better next time im looking to buy a cpu, i'll go for that. all your ravings about incompatibilities and heat problems are news to me.

anyway...you're only doing this in a sad attempt to get some attention.....here's a hint, go out, go to a bar, and get some friends....

 

[RavenPrime]

I have built 3 systems. Two Intel and one AMD. The two Intel I built for work and the AMD is my personal home system. I built the systems for different purposes. One Intel system is a workstation and the other was for a partner that knows nothing about computers. In terms of stability, the Intel systems win hands down. In terms of performance, the AMD leaves the two Intel systems in the dust.

The thermal and HSF issues were irrelevant to me. For my work systems, stability was essential and far more important than performance. Stability and compatiblity, though, is in the chipset, not the processor. For stability, the Intel chipset is still unbeatable. Via, AMD, and other chipset manufacturers are still behind in that area. Hence, my work systems are Intel systems with Intel chipsets. When you look at non-Intel chipsets, stability is equivalent whether you use an Intel or AMD processor.

For my home system though, I wanted performance! I can deal with instability at home. I have had my home system for 5 months now and I will tell you I have had problems with it. All the problems, though, have been with the chipset and graphics card. Via eventually released stable chipset drivers and the motherboard maker a stable BIOS. Still waiting on a stable driver for the video card but the subsequent releases are getting better. As is always the case whether you use Intel or AMD, the drivers for the different components need time to mature. But as I have said before, that is the price you pay for the latest and greatest, which is to say, the fastest.

The AMD T-bird Athlon processors are the fastest. The P4 is only an option for those who don't mind paying too much. Intel needs to get a clue and lower its prices. I paid the same for my partner's 733MHz PIII as I did for my 900MHz T-bird. I was willing to scrifice performance (NOT COST) for stability in my partner's system but not for my home system.

I do not ignore the problems with temp and agree AMD should address the problem but since I do not bother with overclocking, the retail heat sink works just fine for me and hence is a non-issue. Overclockers have to beware and use a heavy duty HSF whether it is Intel or AMD.

<i>Guess my favorite football team!</i> James

 

[flavio321]

listen man...people who burn their amd chips did it because they were eighter gambling to get a few more Mhz or just plain stupid moron dickheads. it's a well know fact that Dr. Tom Pabst, who is without doubt a computer genius, prefers athlons over intel. and all resonably intelligent computer users/hobbiest know that amd is far more superior than the overpriced intel piece of sh!t. even if you burn your amd cpu, lets say a duron 600@ 50 bucks which you could oc it to, let be conservative and say 800Mhz. will cost you less to buy 2 duron than 1 p3 800mhz. i say be stupid and keep giving your money to the fat farts at intel.

If you can't beat 'em kill 'em
athlon "SLOTA" thunderbird 700@1050mhz

 

[flavio321]

let me correct myself. i check the price list and a p3 800 cost about 180 buck and a duron 750 is 50-60 bucks. that's 3 durons for the price of 1 p3.

If you can't beat 'em kill 'em
athlon "SLOTA" thunderbird 700@1050mhz

 

[slvr_phoenix]

One issue that AMD really should address though is thermal protection. It's a really sad day when you have to rely on your motherboard to detect your CPU temperature and shut down if it's going to overheat.

And how many OEM systems cut corners on cost and ship you an AMD system without a motherboard that can do that for you? Just think of how many times that heat sink might get loose and when you turn on the computer **POOF** no more chip because it just burnt itself to death.

I personally don't have problems with that because I'm smart enough to check first.

But the majority of computer purchasers just don't know any better.

And really, how hard could it be to put it into the chip? After all, Intel does it. If AMD gave one single whit for their customers and weren't just out to get your every penny, they'd put that thermal protection in their chips.

- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

 

[tfbww]

That's a bit extreme. If they were out to "get every penny" they sure as hell would be charging more instead of the massive undercutting that they are doing. They are buying market share with lower prices, the exact opposite of screwing people out of all their cash. In fact, it is rather easier to argue that it is Intel who is out to "screw the consumer for every penny" given their market domination and pricing.

All that being said, there is not a (unregulated) company out there who isn't trying to get the most money out of each and every one of us. For some, it's just a longer term play (i.e. AMD).

 

[slvr_phoenix]

It's not extreme, it's the plain truth.

And I never said that Intel wasn't out to get every penny either. Obviously they are. Otherwise they'd drop their prices even more.

But you do have to wonder if maybe those prices are higher than AMD's prices because they actually put things like thermal protection into the chip... If Intel cut corners like AMD does, they could probably lower their prices to be just like AMD's.

The simple fact is, Intel makes it's money by keeping the prices of the chips high. And AMD makes money by providing a product that can easily become damaged, thus causing people to buy more than they really should have needed when such damage occurs.

And if AMD's name were as big as Intel's, I'd bet every penny I had that their prices would be just as high as Intel's. It's only because they're trying to compete that their prices are so low.

Which honestly I like, because that forces Intel to lower their prices. Competition is good. And I can respect a company for trying to squeeze every last penny from you. That's the whole POINT of a company.

But I don't repsect a company that does it by treating their customers so poorly. Intel bends over backwards to keep their customers happy. (As shown with the MTH crisis.) AMD does everything they can to screw their customers to force them to buy more from them. (As seen with a lack of thermal protection.)

- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

 

[Grizely1]

Boy I just love these long response posts.

The thermal, incompatability, and HSF problems with AMD are big ISSUES, untill those problems are not posted here on a DAILY basis I will shove it in your face every chance I get.

If you believe that they are not an issue than your complete idiot. every other posts has something from one of those 3 topics. but you see/call the posts a bunch of lies.

First of all, these "Incompatability" problems with AMD you talk about are nonexistent. If there are any problems at all, it is with the crappy VIA chipset. AMD has nothing to do with it.

2nd, there are no HSF problems, so unless you don't know what HSF means you are seeing things.

3rd, the reason why you see 3 times as many posts about AMD than Intel is because there are 3 times as many people <i>using</i> AMD than Intel.

If you believe that these <i>are</i> issues, then <i>you</i> are a complete idiot because you are either stupid, gay, blind, or just plain nonsensical. (Not pointing to anyone in particular here).

Some of you may claim to have built thousands of computers (LMAO at that joke). but we know better. you would have to build 3 machines @ 7 days a week x 365 days a year to break 1000 machines times several years to be in the thousands. GG on that estimate. A dozen sounds more believeable.

I have only built a few hundred systems from scratch. I have installed thousands over the passed 20 years.

I have built MANY computers, but definately not thousands. Maybe someday I hope to hit that thousand mark!

Hello Mr. prebuilt computer maker. please ship my AMD systems with the CPU not installed because 99.9% of this world doesnt know to remove it before shipping. This is a issue that is the source for alot of DOA machines. reports of CPU coming loose during shipping due to increased HSF needed. It is over spec for rating of retaining bracket.

What does this have to do with it? Shipping defects? WTF? Give me a break. IT's not like Intel systems never come with defects.

Kinda funny how the quick fix for one problem becomes another problem. AMD should spend some money and correct the thermal problem.

As already stated, there is no thermal problem. The only real "problem" is that AMD was dumb enough to not include thermal protection.

PSU is not much of an issue anymore since its not posted here on a daily basis. I think most companies have done a great job correcting the crappy under spec products they were distributing.

Obviously not Intel or the companies making P4 systems. The stupid processor is so much money they have to buy crappy peripherals. A TNT2 video card? Give me a break!







<font color=green>(This post was not meant for any flaming purposes, just expression of opinion and fact.)</font color=green>

 

[Crashman]

I don't know where the "s" came from unless it was a typo. I have built roughly a thousand systems since I began a few years ago. I am a supplier for a local reatailer. And I am a full-time student. I accomplish all this by neglecting my studies and avoiding sleep whenever possible. Sometimes I crash an sleep for a couple days.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Guest]

There are indeed lots of crap and [-peep-] you can say about both CPU manufacturer but the fact remains that AMD chips require a bloody lot of patches to get their CPU running properly and stably.

Intel on the other hand doesn't have such problems of patches and drivers updates to keep everything runnign smoothly.

Word for word my dear readers is that if you want speed but a lot of hassle in looking for patches every now and then, by all means.. go with AMD but if you want a stable machine that will run most application nicely and on a reasonable speed, gow ith Intel PIII.

ONE WORD PEOPLE!!!! LESS HASSLE!!!

I mean most application nowadays do not require that much of a computing power like the Atholn.. A pIII 933 or 800 is enough to satisfy your gaming (if you have got a pretty good Video card) needs. I have a PII 266 running at 350 mhz with 256 meg ram it runs fine with all application I have and games.. Get a fast HD like the Deskstar and you are set and of course a up to standard Video card.

I'll be looking to get a new comp soon and I have to say all these recommended patches for your AMD system to run as fast as it possibly can and runnign stably is makign me throw up. Think about it.. LESS HASSLE..

Mike

 

[Grizely1]

but the fact remains that AMD chips require a bloody lot of patches to get their CPU running properly and stably.

Uhh are you stupid? Ever heard of <font color=green>V - I - A</font color=green>?????? Obviously not, and if you haven't you don't deserve to be talking in this thread.

ONE WORD PEOPLE!!!! LESS HASSLE!!!

Thats two words. Learn how to count.

I mean most application nowadays do not require that much of a computing power like the Atholn.. A pIII 933 or 800 is enough to satisfy your gaming (if you have got a pretty good Video card) needs

Dude... you were just praising the Athlon!!!! Way to go.

It doesn't make sense that if you have 200 bucks to spend you buy a p3 800 instead of a tbird 1.1GHz because you don't think you need the power. LOL!

I'll be looking to get a new comp soon and I have to say all these recommended patches for your AMD system to run as fast as it possibly can and runnign stably is makign me throw up. Think about it.. LESS HASSLE..

Well obvoiusly you've never made an AMD system (or purchased one assembled). There are no recommended patches. If you buy an Intel system you get the latest drivers and everything too. Give me a break. I have build MANY more AMD computers than you (more computers overall) and have not had this hassle you talk about. So don't go dissing something if you've never tried it. Thanks.

 

[FUGGER]

Grizley1, VIA = Incompatability problems? hello re-read that again.

"If there are any problems at all, it is with the crappy VIA chipset. AMD has nothing to do with it"

I bet you have a VIA chipset in your AMD system, =P

AMD does not hold a 3/1 market share, sorry grizley1

Im not talking about shipping defects, its the use of bigger/heavier HSF in systems being shipped. Not heard of this?? wtf you been? people order alot of pre built systems.
Ive heard a few people complain about this and it is a problem. not all oem builders use retail amd cpu, some save a few bucks with OEM and uber cheap HSF, or heavier HSF.

"As already stated, there is no thermal problem. The only real "problem" is that AMD was dumb enough to not include thermal protection."

Lack of thermal protection is not a thermal problem? Umm, ok.. that makes alot of sense

"Obviously not Intel or the companies making P4 systems. The stupid processor is so much money they have to buy crappy peripherals. A TNT2 video card? Give me a break!"

Its called "upgrade options", that TNT2 is the base video card. If your using that system as a server wtf do you need a more expensive card? That video card is also supported by redhat linux straight out of the install. no searching for drivers and crap.

 

[Grizely1]

Grizley1, VIA = Incompatability problems? hello re-read that again.

"If there are any problems at all, it is with the crappy VIA chipset. AMD has nothing to do with it"

I bet you have a VIA chipset in your AMD system, =P

AMD does not hold a 3/1 market share, sorry grizley1

I don't understand what you're trying to say. You said AMD has incompatibility problems and I said no it's the VIA chipsets not AMD. And yes I do have a VIA chipset in my system :tongue:

BTW, no company holds a 3/1 market share, that's impossible. :tongue:

Im not talking about shipping defects, its the use of bigger/heavier HSF in systems being shipped. Not heard of this?? wtf you been? people order alot of pre built systems.
Ive heard a few people complain about this and it is a problem. not all oem builders use retail amd cpu, some save a few bucks with OEM and uber cheap HSF, or heavier HSF.

Well then it's the manufacturers fault for being such dumbasses, not AMD.

Lack of thermal protection is not a thermal problem? Umm, ok.. that makes alot of sense

Yep it does. If the lack of thermal protection is a thermal problem then the lack of MHz on a 486 is a problem.

Its called "upgrade options", that TNT2 is the base video card. If your using that system as a server wtf do you need a more expensive card? That video card is also supported by redhat linux straight out of the install. no searching for drivers and crap.

Yes it's the base system, but they advertise with it. "Oh this computer is the best in 3d games" and all that LOL what a joke. My old P2 333MHz could beat a piece of crap P4 with a TNT2.

 

[flavio321]

that's some long ass reply griz. let them envy amd. intel is nothing more than a has-been.

If you can't beat 'em kill 'em
athlon "SLOTA" thunderbird 700@1050mhz

 

[Grizely1]

Kind of like those old bell bottom hippie pants from the 70's (although they are starting to come back a little hehehe)

BTW it oonly looks big cause of the spaces i put between quotes.

 

[tfbww]

So, in summary, you think that AMD is trying to compete by building an intentionally shoddy product so that people will buy more of it instead of going with the ubiquitously-known competition? That is not any "plain truth;" it is R I D I C U L O U S. The business economics of it simply wouldn't work: they've bet their pricing model on the long term play BUT the product scenario you hypothesize is most certainly a short term play. They haven't fought long and hard to get to this point (10+ years!) to intentionally sabotage their future.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the lack of thermal protection is a good thing. BUT the product has certainly proven to work *in general* without it and it has been proven so by numerous manufacturers. Lots of places get the things work CONSISTENTLY, they can't be THAT bad. You don't see any press railing against them, do you? No consumer advocacy groups flogging them up? Almost every media outlet I've seen has recommended the Athlons and Athlon systems (some gave it Hardware of the Year awards) up and down, regardless if it was tailored to gearheads or soccer moms.

You are acting as just as much of a zealot as the AMD ones you are damning. I'm certainly no zealot, I'm trying to find the reasonable ground in between. There are problems, chiefly because of VIA and definitely with rookie OC'ers from the sound of the posts. *But* the price to performance of the AMD chips has been and still is well above the Pentiums, which is the important measure to me. If it flip-flops the next time I upgrade my system, I will buy Intel. Just that simple.

 

[FUGGER]

Grizley, not gonna play the "lets quote" with you because you can sure bend anything anyone says into your one sided arguement.

In reguards to your last post, your point is completely lost due to the fact I quoted you directly saying what your trying to deny later. GG

Untill a day goes by without someone brining up the problems in question on this forum, its an issue AMD is gonna have to deal with. Not just leave it up to VIA and others to figure out.

You say that 3 times as many people own AMD, that is completely wrong. yet you can reword it to whatever you want.

Face the facts, look at the most recent posts and what do you see? yep AMD problems with HSF and thermal issues. that has nothing to do with VIA the crappy chipset maker.

Ignore it and maybe it will go away =)

 

[Grizely1]

You sure are stupider than I thought. I was talking about the incompatability problems when I said it was VIA's fault. I'm sorry, I've really tried not to get into flame wars, but I think it's going too far.

I have no clue what you're talking about when you say you quoted me on something I denied.

Untill a day goes by without someone brining up the problems in question on this forum, its an issue AMD is gonna have to deal with.

Well then.... Intel have lots of problems too, cause I see post about Intel stuff.

You say that 3 times as many people own AMD, that is completely wrong. yet you can reword it to whatever you want.

If everyone on this forum participates in a POLL - "What type of microprocessor do you have? Intel or AMD?" - I guarantee there will be way more AMD people on here. I never said overall throughout the world. I said on this forum.

Face the facts, look at the most recent posts and what do you see? yep AMD problems

Face the facts dude, if you look at the most recent posts about Intel you see problems.

Ignore it and maybe it will go away =)

That's why everyone is ignoring P4

 

[Ncogneto]

I about fell of my chair when I read this

"But I don't repsect a company that does it by treating their customers so poorly. Intel bends over backwards to keep their customers happy. (As shown with the MTH crisis.) AMD does everything they can to screw their customers to force them to buy more from them. (As seen with a lack of thermal protection.)"

Have you been sleeping the last year. Treats there customers so good? Intel? What??????? Where were you when Intel made a back room agreement with RAMBUS to Implement its memory solution and only its memory solution on its chipsets with the payoff being huge stocks shares and incentives when RAMBUS reached certian percentages in market share? This, at the objection of some of Intels own engineers that they did not feel this was the best solution for there own (intels) processors? This is nothing more than forcing a product down the consumers throat. And this you respect? Good lord how can you even begin to compare that to a missing thermal protection device on a cpu? Sure I would like to see one on my AMD CPU. But how does this even begin to compare to Intels questionable business policies? If Intel would have only listened to its engineers ahead of time there never even would have been a mth issure to begin with!


A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Crashman]

I indeed had a noticable difference overclocking from 700 to 933, but I think it was the bus speed, not the processor speed, that gave it to me. For most aplications there was not a noticeable difference, but my games did render more smoothly in 1600x1200 mode. Since most of my games do not benefit from the higher settings I prefer to play in 1024x768, so I don't think I really needed the extra speed.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Ncogneto]

I keep reading about all these "patches" needed for VIA chipsets (some of the mentally challenged refer to this as AMD patches). Well, for starters the only "patch" that I am aware of for any board made with in the last few years is the AGP driver which takes all of about 30 seconds to install. Now I know this may be a huge hassle (come on gimmee a break). Then I hear about how great the Intell chipsets are. But I digress. While it may be true that 4 years ago Intell may have made one of the best chipsets to date, the BX chipset, remember folks this is only one chipset. For the record the lx,tx, and zx chipsets were not all that hot. The I810, I820, and I840 were just plain lousy. Now, correct me if I am wrong but it would seem too me that chipsets made after the bx should be expected to actually outperform the products they are replacing should they not? So whats the deal Intell heads? At least VIA has been improving on there design not making it worse. And just exactly how much of these "incompatabilites" lie within the actual OS itself? And now that VIA actually outsells intell what will happen with future OS's and there support?

Oh yes I know I forgot to mention the I815 that intell had to pull out of there hat after the MTH issue.....Still could not beat the bx....but was that by design? Or was it that good ol' intell did not want a SDRAM chipset making there RAMBUS counterpart look even more pathetic?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Guest]

Well, I am running an amd900@1000 with w2k and absolutely no problems. Perhaps I am just lucky. One thing for sure though, after reading all horror stories you guys post, I feel like I dodged a bullet somehow.

Next year when I upgrade again I'm prety sure it will be a new and improved P4 with DDR memory. I may have to do without a new car, but at least I'll have a stable computer.

 

[jg38141]

Fugger never has and never will post anything remotely helpful on this forum. By the way Griz- good to see a real post from you again, that's what I'm talkin about. Fugger is such a blind corporate prostitute, that despite proof all over the web and the world that the things he makes such a big deal out of really aren't a problem unless you screw up, he can't admit that AMD makes as good as if not better products than Intel. I have built well over 700 systems with one other guy- we build computers for our business and for a university in 2 years and many are AMD and we've never had a single compatibility or heat problem of any kind- never needed a single patch etc. Same goes for Intel- never a problem. Fugger has a big mouth but no proof to back it. He doesn't piss me off by dissing AMD, he just pisses me off because he's a moron. To bad he has no real stats backing him up. The only reason more people ask AMD questions on this site is because more people on this site own amd processors and will naturally have more questions than for a processor they don't own and I'm sure don't care to own. Intel is ok, AMD is better. Fugger just rambles.

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