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[V 3.0.6] scrolling problem

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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 4:33:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I downloaded and tried the new V 3.0.6 with my current save file
(half elf mage at stat gain). Within a few minutes, i had several
close calls. There were caused by a new feature:

"- Scroll the map when the player is 1/4th of the visible grids
away from the edge of the map display."

My problem: In the new version, it is quite common that a part
of the room i'm in is offscreen. Playing with aligned rooms on,
i'm not used to this, concentrate on the visible monsters, and
are attacked by someting on the other side of the room.

With aligned rooms, you have always seen the whole room when you
enter it. Now you have to scroll the screen manually sometimes.
I know the change was made to make offsceen attacks less likely.
But for me, they are now much more common.

In addition, it causes another annoyance:
Previous, the dungeon consisted of 3x3 panels. It was easy to
know where you already have used you detection spells, and which
areas are unscanned. Now, the information is lost. I might be on
screen (2/2), move a bit, the map scrolls, and i might still be
on (2/2). But a part of the territory is unchecked.
This is further complicated by the fact that after using the
'L'ocate (or 'W') command to look around, the display might
change - sometimes it does, sometimes not. Much more detection
necessary. I played a mage, but with a warrior with rods of
detection, it might be very annoying to wait for recharge much
more often.

But i fear i have to live with it. The new behaviour is better
for people using bigscreen, i think. And it's better for the
people that don't use aligned rooms. It's only a bad thing for
old fashioned players like me.

Werner.

More about : scrolling problem

Anonymous
July 8, 2005 4:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

What exactly does this option do?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 4:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Thanks!
Related resources
July 8, 2005 5:52:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-07-08 12:33:52, =?iso-8859-15?Q?Werner_Bär?= <werner.baer@gmx.de>
wrote:
> In addition, it causes another annoyance:
> Previous, the dungeon consisted of 3x3 panels. It was easy to
> know where you already have used you detection spells, and which
> areas are unscanned. Now, the information is lost. I might be on
> screen (2/2), move a bit, the map scrolls, and i might still be
> on (2/2). But a part of the territory is unchecked.
Just my 2 cents: I still vouch for circular detection range instead of screen
panel detection range. I know it's possible, AFAIK at least one variant
(Hengband) has circular detection and maybe there's more.

--
Mars

Of course there is no formula for success except perhaps an unconditional
acceptance of the RNG and what it brings.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 5:52:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.


Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:

> Werner Bär wrote:
>
>> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
>> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>
> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?


I do not.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:09:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Werner Bär wrote:

> "- Scroll the map when the player is 1/4th of the visible grids away
> from the edge of the map display."

Has anybody counted how many screen changes happens now compared to old
system? Is this really a big change?

3x3 -"sectors" goes like this: 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3 both up and down and
right to left.

I don't use 3.0.6 because new staves/wands recharging, I'm waiting for
3.0.7.

> But i fear i have to live with it. The new behaviour is better
> for people using bigscreen, i think. And it's better for the
> people that don't use aligned rooms. It's only a bad thing for
> old fashioned players like me.

I have used aligned rooms off for ages. It is old option and without
that GV:s are really rare. (BTW. there are few new vaults that don't fit
into screen, so with aligned rooms on you cannot get those at all).

Timo Pietilä
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:11:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>
>
> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>
> > Werner Bär wrote:
> >
> >> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
> >> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
> >
> > AFAIK almost noone does.
> >
> > Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>

Yes, in any variant that allows it.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:10:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Mars" <mars_the_trader@hotmail.com> schrieb...

> Just my 2 cents: I still vouch for circular detection range instead of screen
> panel detection range. I know it's possible, AFAIK at least one variant
> (Hengband) has circular detection and maybe there's more.

There are more of them. I've played some.
Circular detection is IMO one of the most annoying things, since you
don't know when you have to detect again.
I stopped playing such variants after several trap doors.

Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen. I like to know where i have
detected, and where to detect again to cover the whole dungeon.

Werner.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:20:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:09:09 -0700, Eddie Grove
<eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote:

>Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:

>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>I do not.

Nor I.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:40:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Mondkalb wrote:
> What exactly does this option do?
>

[aligned rooms]

It forces game to create rooms that are not partially in another sector
so you can always see the whole room if you are yourself in same sector.
Because that limits space where vaults can be created it made them much
rarer in old days, and I think that part of the code is unchanged so
those new very large greater vaults cannot be created with aligned rooms on.

Timo Pietilä
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 9:04:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Mars wrote:

> Just my 2 cents: I still vouch for circular detection range instead of screen
> panel detection range. I know it's possible, AFAIK at least one variant
> (Hengband) has circular detection and maybe there's more.

Sure it is possible, but problem is that you don't know where detected
area ends. With panel detection range you know. If you can solve that
problem in satisfactory way I can vote for circular too. Othervise not.

Timo Pietilä
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 9:20:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-07-08 16:04:37, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietil�?=
<timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
> Sure it is possible, but problem is that you don't know where detected
> area ends. With panel detection range you know. If you can solve that
> problem in satisfactory way I can vote for circular too. Othervise not.
>
> Timo Pietil�

ToME uses an indicator at the bottom of the screen for trap detection and has a
disturbance option to stop running when you reach the edge of your detection
range. This works fairly well, though you don't know at any time how far you
are from the edge of your detected area.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 9:53:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On 2005-07-08, Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote:
>
> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>
>
> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>
>> Werner Bär wrote:
>>
>>> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
>>> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>>
>> AFAIK almost noone does.
>>
>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>

I do not, but I prefer circular detect because I use always use center_player.
My solution is to remove trapdoors.

--
Christer Nyfalt
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 10:57:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

>On 2005-07-08, Eddie Grove <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote:
>> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>>>
>>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

I do not.

-Andrew ()
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:00:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Werner Bär wrote:

> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.

AFAIK almost noone does.

Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

Timo Pietilä
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:16:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> schrieb...

>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

no.

Werner.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 12:33:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Eddie Grove wrote:
>>Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

I don't use bigscreen

- donalde -
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 3:27:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>Mars wrote:
>>AFAIK at least one variant (Hengband) has circular detection and maybe
>>there's more.
>Sure it is possible, but problem is that you don't know where detected
>area ends. With panel detection range you know. If you can solve that
>problem in satisfactory way I can vote for circular too. Othervise not.

In Z you simply are disturbed and get a message telling that you are now
outside the area where you have detected traps. It works pretty well IMO.


Otto Martin - got polymorphed into another race. time to suicide-dive...
--
"I could use a feelings reset on a regular basis."
"Don't you think that's kind of sad?"
http://www.megatokyo.com/index.php?strip_id=471
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 4:42:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

In article <3j7m9lFoqbfqU4@individual.net>,
Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:

> Werner Bär wrote:
>
> > Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
> > by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>
> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

no. I do not use bigscreen, even when I have the option. I prefer six
windows with different info open.

> Timo Pietilä

-Campbell
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 8:44:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I play Z with bigscreen and the disturb_trap option is set. Z has
nasty traps but when they give a problem it is my own fault.

Willem.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 10:47:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Whenever I can,

T
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 2:14:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in message
news:m3eka9uswa.fsf_-_@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com...
>
> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>
>
> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>
>> Werner Bär wrote:
>>
>>> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
>>> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>>
>> AFAIK almost noone does.
>>
>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>
I do. playing V3.0.6

Tom
July 9, 2005 8:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

I use multiple windows instead of a big screen, but I think circular
detection is the answer. Several variants have it - it isn't hard to
code a disturbance whenever you leave the area of a detection spell.
Some variants even have a note on the status bar to tell you whether
you've detected or not (notably O).

CC
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 9:27:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

I always use it

Ed
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:20:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On the fourth moon of the second planet of a dying star, Timo Pietilä
was seen to write...

> Mars wrote:
>
>> Just my 2 cents: I still vouch for circular detection range instead of screen
>> panel detection range. I know it's possible, AFAIK at least one variant
>> (Hengband) has circular detection and maybe there's more.
>
> Sure it is possible, but problem is that you don't know where detected
> area ends. With panel detection range you know. If you can solve that
> problem in satisfactory way I can vote for circular too. Othervise not.
>
> Timo Pietilä
>
In Unangband there is an option to display all unexplored squares as
grey 'x's, and change them to blank squares when you detect.
Personally I don't like it because <quietly slips on Narya> I don't
detect much, usually play warrior-type characters anyway with no means
of detection, and just find it annoying.

--
- Martin Bazley - "Being me is a 24-hour job"
martin@bazley.freeuk.com - Wimbledon, London, England
============== ARM 610 17MB RiscPC 600 ==============
================= RISC OS Rules OK! =================
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:22:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä wrote:
> Mars wrote:
>
>> Just my 2 cents: I still vouch for circular detection range instead of
>> screen
>> panel detection range. I know it's possible, AFAIK at least one variant
>> (Hengband) has circular detection and maybe there's more.
>
>
> Sure it is possible, but problem is that you don't know where detected
> area ends. With panel detection range you know. If you can solve that
> problem in satisfactory way I can vote for circular too. Othervise not.
>
> Timo Pietilä

<delurk>
If there is one new feature I'd love to see in V it would be some kind,
any kind, of detection range indicator. Just the simple "you are
leaving a trap detected area" from Z would be vast improvement. I
personally prefer the method used in sctch and heng where detection
areas are actually shown on the screen.
</delurk>
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:22:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On the fourth moon of the second planet of a dying star, Eddie Grove
was seen to write...

>
> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>
>
> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>
>> Werner Bär wrote:
>>
>>> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
>>> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>>
>> AFAIK almost noone does.
>>
>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>
>
> I do not.

Although it was recently ported to RISC OS (so I can't use that excuse
anymore) I don't.
--
- Martin Bazley - "Being me is a 24-hour job"
martin@bazley.freeuk.com - Wimbledon, London, England
============== ARM 610 17MB RiscPC 600 ==============
================= RISC OS Rules OK! =================
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:25:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä wrote:

> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

Nope.
I'm stuck at 600x800 on a 14" monster so there's no point. Half the
time I don't even play in X. If it works with gcu, I've not figured out
how to do it.
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:25:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

On the fourth moon of the second planet of a dying star, Timo Pietilä
was seen to write...

> Werner Bär wrote:
>
>> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
>> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>
> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>
> Timo Pietilä
Looks like you're going to be proved right. So far I've counted 8
votes (mine included) and only Scott used it.

--
- Martin Bazley - "Being me is a 24-hour job"
martin@bazley.freeuk.com - Wimbledon, London, England
============== ARM 610 17MB RiscPC 600 ==============
================= RISC OS Rules OK! =================
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:49:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Martin Bazley <martin@bazley.freeuk.com> writes:

>> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>>
>> Timo Pietilä
> Looks like you're going to be proved right. So far I've counted 8
> votes (mine included) and only Scott used it.

I wonder how many of the "nos" would change their minds if detection areas
weren't so closely tied to screen size.

FWIW, I use bigscreen and center_player with variants like Z and ToME that
have disturb_traps. But when I'm playing a variant that lacks a disturb_traps
option, I use a standard-sized screen w/o center_player, because I want to
see the limits of detection.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 1:48:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in message
news:m3eka9uswa.fsf_-_@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com...
>
> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>
>
> Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> writes:
>
> > Werner Bär wrote:
> >
> >> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
> >> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
> >
> > AFAIK almost noone does.
> >
> > Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>
>
> I do not.
>
>
>
>
>
and neither do I



--
Garrie
(who really needs to update his .sig :(  )
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 8:46:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in message
news:m3eka9uswa.fsf_-_@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com...
>
> I changed the title so hopefully it will be easier to follow the poll.
>

I do.

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
July 10, 2005 9:29:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

magnate wrote:
> Some variants even have a note on the status bar to tell you whether
> you've detected or not (notably O).

Yes, although it only tells you about the most recent detection. This
can be irritating if you are retracing your steps frequently. It would
be more useful to have a record of which grids had been detected for
the entire level, but I'm unsure about the efficiency implications of
that.

Nick.
July 10, 2005 11:12:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Almost forgot - yes, I use bigscreen.

Nick.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:02:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

In article <1121041794.190307.316840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Nick" <nckmccnnll@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> magnate wrote:
> > Some variants even have a note on the status bar to tell you whether
> > you've detected or not (notably O).
>
> Yes, although it only tells you about the most recent detection. This
> can be irritating if you are retracing your steps frequently. It would
> be more useful to have a record of which grids had been detected for
> the entire level, but I'm unsure about the efficiency implications of
> that.

Heng has this - it leaves undetected squares marked with a gray X.

> Nick.

-Campbell
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 12:40:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä wrote:
> Werner Bär wrote:
>
> > Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
> > by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>
> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>
> Timo Pietilä

I do and think it's great. I also use 'continual centering' which
makes big screen even more useful for avoiding off-screen instadeaths!
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 1:05:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:

> Werner Bär wrote:
>
> > Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
> > by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>
> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>
> Timo Pietilä

I find the T.o.M.E. approach of having variable detection circles and
alerting you when you move out of the detected area to be a good deal
more convenient than the V approach. I play on a PowerBook G4 with a
1280x854 pixel screen.

--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin&gt;
My neuroscience wikiwiki is at
<http://scat-he-g4.sunderland.ac.uk/~harryerw/phpwiki/in...;
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 11:32:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

Timo Pietilä wrote:
> Werner Bär wrote:
>
>> Circular detection tried to solve a problem that was introduced
>> by bigscreen. I don't use bigscreen.
>
>
> AFAIK almost noone does.
>
> Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?
>

What is bigscreen? (Presumably that answers your question).




--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 3:36:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.angband (More info?)

> > Poll: do you use bigscreen or not?

I'm a little late to this party, but yes, absolutely, in any variant
that allows it, to the point where non bigscreen variants annoy the
heck out of me. Course, it's only a recent change I've made, due to
operating in a dual monitor setup (2560 x 1024 total space) - large
desktop space is key, so for those people with small
monitors/underpowered videocards, it's probably not an attractive
option.

Summary (to this point):

NO - total of 10
YES - total of 11
!