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In TOME is it just the Ringwraiths that if you hit them your weapon can be
destroyed? And does anything with a disenchantment attack effect the weapon
if you just melee it?

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

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Cliff Stamp wrote:
> In TOME is it just the Ringwraiths that if you hit them your weapon can be
> destroyed? And does anything with a disenchantment attack effect the weapon
> if you just melee it?

I don't know about the ringwraiths, but ToME disenchantment is about
the same as any other variant. (I usually play petty-dwarf and/or
archer, so disenchantment doesn't come into play.)

Anyway, what's a power-diver like you doing playing ToME?
 
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Cliff Stamp wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, pete mack wrote:
>
> > Anyway, what's a power-diver like you doing playing ToME?
>
> Trying not to die. It seems you need *identify* a lot as it seems you
> constantly pick up things which can activate. I assume this is a service in
> one of the other towns? Which one is closest to Bree? Where is the nearest
> dungeon harder than Barrow Downs?

If you hate disenchantment, play Petty Dwarf. RDIS/RDARK, and detect
doors/traps for free. OK stats too, and good dice.

Eru-worship is also right up your alley.



*Identify* scrolls are available in stores, and service is available
from "Old Mage" in "library" for a fee as well. (Lothlorien, Minas
Tirith)

Next town is Lothlorien, somewhat SE of Bree. Go south from Bree, then
skirt the mountains to the E, until you start going N again.

Hint for wilderness travel: when in shallow water, consider how you
escape an "ambush", and cross rivers accordingly. (Teleport is a lame
and unreliable way to escape.)

Other towns:
* Gondolin - far NE of Bree, somewhat hard to find.
* Minas Tirith, far S of Lothlorien, furthest E point of western
mountain range.

Other easy-to-find early dungeons:

* Orc Caves - somewhat NNW of Bree. jam-packed with monsters that come
in groups. I don't like it.
* Old Forest - just NW of Bree. Never done it.
* Labyrinth - S, near Bree. Only if you are a masochist.
* Mirkwood - slightly NE of Lothlorien.
* Moria - S of Bree.
* Mordor, far S of Lothlorien, just E of Minas Tirith. (dl 30+, lots of
lava.)


You can look at a map, here:

http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband


> In regards to skills, how do you generally add points tree wise. In combat
> for example, I checked the ladder and some had all three maxed, some only
> maxed weapon mastery and sword mastery. I assume for a focused character you
> should start down the tree and work backward?

Read skills.txt, abilities.txt

For warrior, start on combat, then go to subdiscipline. From reading
the help files and skimming the code, the weaponmastery skill itself
appears of extremely limited usefulness. "Spread-blows ability" at
level 30, and nothing else. (It does not affect your to-hit.)


For warrior target mimima are:
Combat 10 - extra blow, strong pseudo
Combat 20 - extra blow
Weaponmastery 30, cl 25 - spread blows (???)

Weaponmastery subdiscipline and combat skill affect to-hit.
Subdiscipline is 7/3 more effective than combat alone, but is 8/5 more
expensive. (You need to have melee to-hit of 100 to get 50% hit
probability on morgoth.)


If you want to beat ToME fast, play archer. Don't enter any dungeons
until around cl 28-30, at which point you can dive in Mordor. Archer
lets you learn the first 5 or 6 town quests without wasting time doing
anything else at all. (Just don't finish Lothlorien quest.)

For archer target minima are:
10 Combat (for strong pseudo)
10 Archery (For bow ammo creation)
16 Crossbow-mastery (for extra shot)
20 Archery (for xbow ammo creation.)
20 xbow-mastery (xtra might)
then 32, 50, granting eventually xtra might +3, xtra shot +3.

Combat and Archery skill affect accuracy.

Calculation for an archer:
First get archery to 13.2 and combat to 10. Then put everything into
crossbow-mastery. When xbow-mastery reaches 16, archery reaches 20,
just in time to let you create ammo for what is now a two-shot lt xbow.
This should occur at cl 12-13. (This is adequate for second Bree
quest, given extremely good ammo, well-enchanted bow, and
!Hero/?Chant.)


Warnings: 3rd Gondolin quest is lethal without very special equipment.
Second Gondolin quest requires !Speed.
 
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Sherm Pendley wrote:
> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > If you want to beat ToME fast, play archer. Don't enter any dungeons
> > until around cl 28-30, at which point you can dive in Mordor. Archer
> > lets you learn the first 5 or 6 town quests without wasting time doing
> > anything else at all. (Just don't finish Lothlorien quest.)
>
> I've heard this before, but I don't understand it... Which Lothlorien quest,
> and why not?

Archer can make ammo out of rubbish, but it takes a lot of attempts to
get good ammo. There's unlimited rubbish in Lothlorien, if you don't
finish the wolf quest. OTOH, level-1 junk is pretty rare in deep
dungeons.
 
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, pete mack wrote:

> Anyway, what's a power-diver like you doing playing ToME?

Trying not to die. It seems you need *identify* a lot as it seems you
constantly pick up things which can activate. I assume this is a service in
one of the other towns? Which one is closest to Bree? Where is the nearest
dungeon harder than Barrow Downs?

In regards to skills, how do you generally add points tree wise. In combat
for example, I checked the ladder and some had all three maxed, some only
maxed weapon mastery and sword mastery. I assume for a focused character you
should start down the tree and work backward?

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
 
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Cliff Stamp <sstamp@physics.mun.ca> writes:

> In TOME is it just the Ringwraiths that if you hit them your weapon can be
> destroyed? And does anything with a disenchantment attack effect the weapon
> if you just melee it?

"Normal" disenchantment attacks work the same as in other variants, as far as
I can tell.

sherm--

--
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Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
 
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Cliff Stamp <sstamp@physics.mun.ca> writes:

> On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
>> "Normal" disenchantment attacks work the same as in other variants, as far
>> as I can tell.
>
> So if you have resistance to disenchantment your items can't be
> disenchanted?

I haven't gone source-diving in either V or ToME, but I had the idea that it
gave you a bonus on your saving throw, not total immunity. I'm not sure where
I got that idea though, and I could easily be wrong about it.

At any rate, what I meant to say was that "normal" disenchantment is like in
other variants. It's not total destruction of an item, just a reduction in its
bonus.

sherm--

--
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Cliff Stamp <sstamp@physics.mun.ca> writes:

> Trying not to die. It seems you need *identify* a lot as it seems you
> constantly pick up things which can activate. I assume this is a service in
> one of the other towns? Which one is closest to Bree?

Galadriel will *id* stuff for you, in Lothlorien. That's nearly due east of
Bree, but it's on the other side of the mountains, so you have to go around
them to the south to get there.

Gondolin is pretty much directly north of Bree, although you do need to take
a handful of steps out of your way to get around some mountains. There's a
shop with an *id* service there too.

> Where is the nearest
> dungeon harder than Barrow Downs?

The old forest is a couple of steps to the west on the big map, and the orc
caves a few steps north. Mirkwood is to the northeast of Lothlorien - that's
the next dungeon with quests, if you're doing those.

sherm--

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On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, Sherm Pendley wrote:

> "Normal" disenchantment attacks work the same as in other variants, as far as
> I can tell.

So if you have resistance to disenchantment your items can't be
disenchanted?


--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
 
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"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:

> If you want to beat ToME fast, play archer. Don't enter any dungeons
> until around cl 28-30, at which point you can dive in Mordor. Archer
> lets you learn the first 5 or 6 town quests without wasting time doing
> anything else at all. (Just don't finish Lothlorien quest.)

I've heard this before, but I don't understand it... Which Lothlorien quest,
and why not?

sherm--

--
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Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
 
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"pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:

> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>> "pete mack" <pmac360@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > Just don't finish Lothlorien quest.
>>
>> I've heard this before, but I don't understand it... Which Lothlorien quest,
>> and why not?
>
> Archer can make ammo out of rubbish, but it takes a lot of attempts to
> get good ammo. There's unlimited rubbish in Lothlorien, if you don't
> finish the wolf quest.

Aha! That explains why I didn't understand it - I've never tried an Archer.

sherm--

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On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:38:26 -0230, Cliff Stamp wrote:

> In TOME is it just the Ringwraiths that if you hit them your weapon can be
> destroyed? And does anything with a disenchantment attack effect the weapon
> if you just melee it?

Short answers: Yes (though some Joke monsters might do it, too, for all
I know, so leave those off). No.

The effect the Nine have on weapons is not a "disenchantment" effect in
the usual sense. It has nothing to do with things that are called
Disenchantment in the game. Disenchantment resistance is irrelevant, and
it's not connected with the usual things that "attack to disenchant."

Answering other issues in the thread:

It's usually better to spend skill points in child skills before their
parents because child skills usually give bonuses to their parent skills.
See the documentation.

Every town except Bree has an *Identify* service. *Identify* scrolls also
appear in the normal shop, though, so it's possible to take care of that
stuff in Bree with patience.

I wouldn't trust the typical character sheet when deciding how to allocate
skills. I think a lot of people make a lot of mistakes when doing that,
and besides, the ToME 2.3 changes made most of those allocations obsolute
anyway.

--
Neil Stevens - neil@hakubi.us

'A republic, if you can keep it.' -- Benjamin Franklin
 
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 02:19:40 -0230, Cliff Stamp wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
>> "Normal" disenchantment attacks work the same as in other variants, as far as
>> I can tell.
>
> So if you have resistance to disenchantment your items can't be
> disenchanted?

Yes, but as I said elsewhere in the thread, this does not apply to the
damage that the Nine do to your weapons.

--
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'A republic, if you can keep it.' -- Benjamin Franklin
 
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Cliff Stamp wrote:

> I cleaned a few low level dungeons, did a few town quests, attempted Mordor
> and got frozen and died. I figured form depth DA would be a problem, but no
> source showed up and there was basically nothing else seen to do.

I've been abusing the ToME Archer class, just to see how far I could
push it. I ran out of town quests to attempt, not counting Lothlorien.
I guess it's finally time to enter the first dungeon, probably Mordor,
and do some stat gain at 2000'.

Class: Petty-Dwarf Archer
Level: 34
Enemies defeated: 335

Quests completed:
Bree - 3
Gondolin - 3
Minas Tirith - 2
Lothlorien - 1

See:
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=4893

I feel too guilty to steal stuff (like a RoSpeed) from the "Royal
Jewelery Shop".
 
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On Sun, 24 Sep 2005, pete mack wrote:

> * Labyrinth - S, near Bree. Only if you are a masochist.

I did this in Heng, great concept, never do more than once.

> You can look at a map, here:
>
> http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband

A lot of the links are broken, did see any map.

I cleaned a few low level dungones, did a few town quests, attempted Mordor
and got frozen and died. I figured form depth DA would be a problem, but no
source showed up and there was basically nothing else seen to do.

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
 
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There's a map here:
http://www.t-o-m-e.net/wilderness-2.2.png

The correct link is http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband/

Cliff Stamp wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Sep 2005, pete mack wrote:
>
>> * Labyrinth - S, near Bree. Only if you are a masochist.
>
>
> I did this in Heng, great concept, never do more than once.
>
>> You can look at a map, here:
>>
>> http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband
>
>
> A lot of the links are broken, did see any map.
>
> I cleaned a few low level dungones, did a few town quests, attempted Mordor
> and got frozen and died. I figured form depth DA would be a problem, but no
> source showed up and there was basically nothing else seen to do.
>
 
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From the Holy Book of <Pine.LNX.4.60.0509251943220.12800@kelvin.physics.mun.ca>
as spake by Cliff Stamp (sstamp@physics.mun.ca):

> On Sun, 24 Sep 2005, pete mack wrote:

> > You can look at a map, here:
> >
> > http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband

> A lot of the links are broken, did see any map.

Hm? Which ones? [checks links] Okay, I found (and fixed) one dead link
to automatizer docs. As camlost pointed out, the correct link is
<http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband/>; the map thereon is at
<http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband/wilderness-labeled-2.2.png>, which
is a labeled version of the map camlost pointed to.

-sbigham
 
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2005, pete mack wrote:

> Class: Petty-Dwarf Archer
> Level: 34
> Enemies defeated: 335
>
> Quests completed:
> Bree - 3
> Gondolin - 3
> Minas Tirith - 2
> Lothlorien - 1

Can you give an order run down. Can you be ambushed in the wilderness in
shallow water and open ground? What does quest scumming mean?

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
 
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Cliff Stamp wrote:

> I cleaned a few low level dungones, did a few town quests, attempted
> Mordor and got frozen and died. I figured form depth DA would be a
> problem, but no source showed up and there was basically nothing else seen
> to do.
>

There's a easy to get guaranteed source of FA.

---- *Spoiler* -------------




















Orc caves dlvl 21 Maedhros, Cammithrim & Thalkettoth. Pretty impressive loot
for killing a bunch of orcs, isn't it?
 
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> ----- MASSIVE SPOILERS -------

Does any one have a massive spoiler for running a high
level assassin, I can get high level ( level 35 ;)
pretty quickly but then I just seem to loose focus and die.

Preferred races are interesting too, I usually go for hobbit,
dark elf or underdwarf.

T.
 
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Pia Kraft wrote:

> There's a easy to get guaranteed source of FA.

[SNIP]

I actually did that level with the guy who died due to a lack of FA, I
however didn't clear the whole level and just figured I was done and nothing
interesting showed up on a magic map.

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
 
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Cliff Stamp wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Pia Kraft wrote:
>
>> There's a easy to get guaranteed source of FA.
>
>
> [SNIP]
>
> I actually did that level with the guy who died due to a lack of FA, I
> however didn't clear the whole level and just figured I was done and
> nothing
> interesting showed up on a magic map.
>

There are several secret doors that lead to the three aforementioned
guaranteed artifacts. If you want to know where they are, just look at
the .map file in the lib/edit directory. i can't see why they wouldn't
have shown up on magic mapping, though. Perhaps because they're
surrounded by permanent walls, or something.

--
Wil Hunt
Geek in training.
Jack of few trades, master of none.
 
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Cliff Stamp wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005, Wil Hunt wrote:
>
> > i can't see why they wouldn't have
> > shown up on magic mapping, though.
>
> I cleared the level with the current character, they just look like little
> small rooms on a magic map, they didn't trigger "vault" to me was all.
>

Could you post character to the ladder? I am curious to see how you
play ToME.
 
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On Tue, 27 Sep 2005, Wil Hunt wrote:

> i can't see why they wouldn't have
> shown up on magic mapping, though.

I cleared the level with the current character, they just look like little
small rooms on a magic map, they didn't trigger "vault" to me was all.

--
Cliff Stamp
sstamp@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
 
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Cliff Stamp wrote:
> Speed +10 is enough.

Not in Angband dungeon, where all monsters start at pretty high speed
and are leveled up. Killing 'o' in Angband is tougher than it is in
Mirkwood.


> If you take a quest and leave the level is it gone?
>
Only for Town quests (except the quests that grant you a home) and
special levels. Fumble-fingers quests and princess quests are there
until you finish them.

I don't know about the quests at the bottom of different dungeons.

> Is anti-magic just a saving throw.

No. It is more along the lines of a sometimes-useful curse, like
aggravation.

>
> What does invisibility actually do?
>
> I tried a ring and some monsters acted like they didn't see me, others did,
> so is it a monster feature or distance one?

Undead and invisible monsters have see invisibile. Monster level
affects it too. I find that it helps most with big groups of monsters.
In any case, it is more effective than Protection from Evil. It
certainly helps in Troll Quest II, against the sea of War Trolls and
Ettins. Like Prot. Evil, it gets less useful the deeper you go.