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A coup[le of second edition questions

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Anonymous
November 5, 2004 8:04:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

First off:
The spell Stoneskin: if a reciepent of this spell is attacked by an illusionary target and doesn't
relize its an illusion, do the attacks made agaisnt the spell still remove the layers of protection?
example a party protected by Stoneskin is attacked by a group of kobolds lead by a mage. The mage
creates a small force of orcs as cover until the kobolds can manouver in for the coup-de-gras. Does
the "attacks" made by the "orcs" count against the stoneskin's protection?

Second:
Can dispel magic be cast on an object like an arrow, bolt, sling stone/bullet and be used to dispel
spells cast on creatures/players/ect?

Third:
Anyone know of a good way to convert D&D v3.5 stuff to 2nd edition?

Danke
Jay Bebetze
the_goblin@mindspring.com
gbb301@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/6914
"Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est." Catullus, Roman Poet
There is nothing dumber than to grin at the wrong time.

More about : coup edition questions

Anonymous
November 6, 2004 8:12:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:nt1mo09d91gbr82ovqplfu82em5evfqk4g@4ax.com...
> Third:
> Anyone know of a good way to convert D&D v3.5 stuff to 2nd edition?

Just use their 2e to 3e conversion booklet at Wizards site and reverse what
your doing...

--
Tarrax Ironwolf
tarrax_ironwolfREM@VEyahoo-dot-com
-------
"We played Dungeons & Dragons for three hours! Then I was slain by an
elf." -- Homer Simpson



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Anonymous
November 6, 2004 1:03:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Jay Betbeze wrote:
> First off:
> The spell Stoneskin: if a reciepent of this spell is attacked by an illusionary target and doesn't
> relize its an illusion, do the attacks made agaisnt the spell still remove the layers of protection?
> example a party protected by Stoneskin is attacked by a group of kobolds lead by a mage. The mage
> creates a small force of orcs as cover until the kobolds can manouver in for the coup-de-gras. Does
> the "attacks" made by the "orcs" count against the stoneskin's protection?

As far as I remember there aren't any such examples in AD&D, but the stoneskin
isn't mental, so it would requier a real solid hit, I guess this is why the DM
is supposed to keep track of stoneskin layers and not the players.
Could be so that the illusion is so real for the PC that the illusionary foe
managest to wound the PC, you could make small mind checks to see how
convinced the PCs got of the illusionary hit (No you can't ask the player, for
they always say that wouldn't be scared of the illusion).


> Second:
> Can dispel magic be cast on an object like an arrow, bolt, sling stone/bullet and be used to dispel
> spells cast on creatures/players/ect?

No, you need to cast "enchant an item" spell first and then display spell on
the arrow.


//Aho
Related resources
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 5:48:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 10:03:50 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote:

>Jay Betbeze wrote:
>> First off:
>> The spell Stoneskin: if a reciepent of this spell is attacked by an illusionary target and doesn't
>> relize its an illusion, do the attacks made agaisnt the spell still remove the layers of protection?
>> example a party protected by Stoneskin is attacked by a group of kobolds lead by a mage. The mage
>> creates a small force of orcs as cover until the kobolds can manouver in for the coup-de-gras. Does
>> the "attacks" made by the "orcs" count against the stoneskin's protection?
>
>As far as I remember there aren't any such examples in AD&D, but the stoneskin
>isn't mental, so it would requier a real solid hit, I guess this is why the DM
>is supposed to keep track of stoneskin layers and not the players.
>Could be so that the illusion is so real for the PC that the illusionary foe
>managest to wound the PC, you could make small mind checks to see how
>convinced the PCs got of the illusionary hit (No you can't ask the player, for
>they always say that wouldn't be scared of the illusion).
The text of the spell only says "attacks". It doen't make any specific determination between real
phyical or illusionary attacks. This is why I was asking.
>
>
>> Second:
>> Can dispel magic be cast on an object like an arrow, bolt, sling stone/bullet and be used to dispel
>> spells cast on creatures/players/ect?
>
>No, you need to cast "enchant an item" spell first and then display spell on
>the arrow.
What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt that had been enchanted with
dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a target creature/player?
>
> //Aho

Jay Bebetze
the_goblin@mindspring.com
gbb301@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/6914
"Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est." Catullus, Roman Poet
There is nothing dumber than to grin at the wrong time.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 8:42:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:v13ro0l8qsgtf9ubhiah5ekhjlts608e74@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 10:03:50 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote:
> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt that
> had been enchanted with
> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a
> target creature/player?

Yes. But your DM's discretion may vary...

--
Tarrax Ironwolf
tarrax_ironwolfREM@VEyahoo-dot-com
-------
"We played Dungeons & Dragons for three hours! Then I was slain by an
elf." -- Homer Simpson


---
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Anonymous
November 7, 2004 11:52:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Jay Betbeze wrote:

>>>Second:
>>>Can dispel magic be cast on an object like an arrow, bolt, sling stone/bullet and be used to dispel
>>>spells cast on creatures/players/ect?
>>
>>No, you need to cast "enchant an item" spell first and then display spell on
>>the arrow.
>
> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt that had been enchanted with
> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a target creature/player?

If you cast dispel on an arrow, it will affect spells/magic that has been
previously cast on the arrow. There is a "saving throw" made before, to see if
the dispel does affect.

eg magical arrows, like arrow +1: successfull dispel makes the arrow none
magical for 1d4 rounds

eg bolt upon which someone has recently cast darkness: successfull dispel will
dispel the darkness spell

eg none magical sling bullet: a waisted dispel, as there aren't anything to
dispel. (of course it's up to the DM to change this)



//Aho
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 12:39:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:48:19 GMT, Jay Betbeze <the_goblin@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt
> that had been enchanted with
> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a
> target creature/player?

Dispel Magic isn't a spell you can get to "stick" on an item. It dispels
magic off of items, either permanently or temporarily. There is an item
called an Arrow of Dispelling, from the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia as well
as in the Encycolpedia Magicka volume 1 page 66. These arrows hold a
Dispel effect until they strike their target, upon which they release a
standard dispel spell on the area.

--
The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the
taxidermist leaves the skin. -Mark Twain
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 12:55:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:04:45 GMT, Jay Betbeze <the_goblin@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> First off:
> The spell Stoneskin: if a reciepent of this spell is attacked by an
> illusionary target and doesn't
> relize its an illusion, do the attacks made agaisnt the spell still
> remove the layers of protection?

I think the Stoneskin would remain intact regardless of the number of
illsionary attacks made against it. The character, however, might come to
believe that all his Stoneskins have been shed by these illsionary
attacks, when in fact, they haven't. So, I'd say that since the attacks
and damage from these illsionary attacks are all occurring inside the mind
of the character, the character won't suffer the loss of his Stoneskins,
but may still "die" or be "wounded", despite evidence later that he never
took a single hit AND his Stoneskin is still functioning.

> example a party protected by Stoneskin is attacked by a group of kobolds
> lead by a mage. The mage
> creates a small force of orcs as cover until the kobolds can manouver in
> for the coup-de-gras. Does
> the "attacks" made by the "orcs" count against the stoneskin's
> protection?

No, but they do count against the character's hit points, because the
character still thinks he's fighting real orcs. The tricky part is, since
the kobolds and the mage are actually real, but the orcs aren't, you have
to keep close record of actual and phantom hps lost, because if the
character believes the "orcs" to be real, the character might go down long
before the kobolds or mage takes him or his Stoneskin down. Chances are,
the orcs will "appear" to be hitting the character and knocking off layers
of Stoneskin, but actually, they're not. This is what makes illusionists
so deadly. If you fail to disbelieve in something they create, you can
find your own mind is your worst enemy, because by the time you realize
the "orcs" were not real, your mind has already tricked you into thinking
the wounds they caused are, and that's what the kobolds and mage are
counting on and hoping for.

--
The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the
taxidermist leaves the skin. -Mark Twain
Anonymous
November 8, 2004 12:14:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:v13ro0l8qsgtf9ubhiah5ekhjlts608e74@4ax.com...
>
> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt that
had been enchanted with
> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a
target creature/player?

Why not put it in combat terms? If the spell can be cast on the arrow,
why not simply cast the spell on the intended target? Casting on the
arrow and then shooting the arrow multiplies the chance of failure
even if in the unlikely event that your DM allows it.

As a DM, I'd say:
A: The spell had no effect on the non-magical arrow/bolt/bullet.
The spell is wasted. Maybe roll some dice for show.

B: The arrow/bolt/bullet is now non-magical. Only normal spell failure
chance if any. Maybe there was a reason the PC needed a non-magical arrow.
An odd chance this could create a delayed action arrow once the dispel
magic expires. Delayed action would depend on what kind of magical arrow
it was before dispel was cast. Maybe a delayed action fire arrow for
example.

C: Trying to create a magical item during combat? Chance of failure
would be extremely high even if the PC has created such an
item previously. If this has never been attempted as per the create
item rules, I'd allow the waste of time and spells and then say it failed.
Roll some dice for show.

D: Outside of combat, standard create magical item rules apply with
adjustments for crude conditions if done outside of a laboratory.
This could be near impossible if the PC hasn't been successful
previously under ideal conditions. Depending on which version
rules, this could be ugly.

E: Provide a merchant that sells dispel magic arrows/bolts/bullets.
Probably at an outrageous price if it will affect the game to much.
Maybe on the shelf next to the dispel magic wands.
Anonymous
November 9, 2004 9:42:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Jay Betbeze <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:nt1mo09d91gbr82ovqplfu82em5evfqk4g@4ax.com:

> First off:
> The spell Stoneskin: if a reciepent of this spell is attacked by an
> illusionary target and doesn't relize its an illusion, do the attacks
> made agaisnt the spell still remove the layers of protection? example
> a party protected by Stoneskin is attacked by a group of kobolds lead
> by a mage. The mage creates a small force of orcs as cover until the
> kobolds can manouver in for the coup-de-gras. Does the "attacks" made
> by the "orcs" count against the stoneskin's protection?
>

In the PHB it states that any attack, real or magical will cause one
attack to be expended. Since the illusion is an attack it could be said
that yes it uses up "layers" of the Stoneskin. This is also the easiest
way to work the spell as well, since you don't have to keep separate
track of HP and attacks.

> Second:
> Can dispel magic be cast on an object like an arrow, bolt, sling
> stone/bullet and be used to dispel spells cast on
> creatures/players/ect?
>
> Third:
> Anyone know of a good way to convert D&D v3.5 stuff to 2nd edition?
>
> Danke
> Jay Bebetze
> the_goblin@mindspring.com
> gbb301@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
> Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/6914
> "Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est." Catullus, Roman Poet
> There is nothing dumber than to grin at the wrong time.
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 5:10:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Actually, what I'm trying to do is counter the spell Stoneskin. I was going to have any random
encounters have missle weapons with dispel magic on the arrows. I figured massed flights with the
first couple of shots having that on the arrow would eliminate any advantage the PCs would have.
I just want to let my players know that they are not invunerable. I sure as hell wasn't going to let
the players have this.
Might just settle for massed archers and or slingers.
Maybe some javelins and atlatls..........

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:14:07 -0500, "CryptWolf" <RWilliams01nospam@no.spam.sceinet.no.spam.com>
wrote:

>
>"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:v13ro0l8qsgtf9ubhiah5ekhjlts608e74@4ax.com...
>>
>> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt that
>had been enchanted with
>> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a
>target creature/player?
>
>Why not put it in combat terms? If the spell can be cast on the arrow,
>why not simply cast the spell on the intended target? Casting on the
>arrow and then shooting the arrow multiplies the chance of failure
>even if in the unlikely event that your DM allows it.
>
>As a DM, I'd say:
>A: The spell had no effect on the non-magical arrow/bolt/bullet.
>The spell is wasted. Maybe roll some dice for show.
>
>B: The arrow/bolt/bullet is now non-magical. Only normal spell failure
>chance if any. Maybe there was a reason the PC needed a non-magical arrow.
>An odd chance this could create a delayed action arrow once the dispel
>magic expires. Delayed action would depend on what kind of magical arrow
>it was before dispel was cast. Maybe a delayed action fire arrow for
>example.
>
>C: Trying to create a magical item during combat? Chance of failure
>would be extremely high even if the PC has created such an
>item previously. If this has never been attempted as per the create
>item rules, I'd allow the waste of time and spells and then say it failed.
>Roll some dice for show.
>
>D: Outside of combat, standard create magical item rules apply with
>adjustments for crude conditions if done outside of a laboratory.
>This could be near impossible if the PC hasn't been successful
>previously under ideal conditions. Depending on which version
>rules, this could be ugly.
>
>E: Provide a merchant that sells dispel magic arrows/bolts/bullets.
>Probably at an outrageous price if it will affect the game to much.
>Maybe on the shelf next to the dispel magic wands.
>

Jay Bebetze
the_goblin@mindspring.com
gbb301@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/6914
"Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est." Catullus, Roman Poet
There is nothing dumber than to grin at the wrong time.
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 11:22:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Jay Betbeze <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:jai5p09fc0rtd21kp0imahj6a2aam8rfce@4ax.com:

> Actually, what I'm trying to do is counter the spell Stoneskin. I was
> going to have any random encounters have missle weapons with dispel
> magic on the arrows. I figured massed flights with the first couple of
> shots having that on the arrow would eliminate any advantage the PCs
> would have. I just want to let my players know that they are not
> invunerable. I sure as hell wasn't going to let the players have this.
> Might just settle for massed archers and or slingers.
> Maybe some javelins and atlatls..........
>
> On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:14:07 -0500, "CryptWolf"
> <RWilliams01nospam@no.spam.sceinet.no.spam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:v13ro0l8qsgtf9ubhiah5ekhjlts608e74@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling
>>> stone/bullet/bolt that
>>had been enchanted with
>>> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects
>>> on a
>>target creature/player?
>>
>>Why not put it in combat terms? If the spell can be cast on the arrow,
>>why not simply cast the spell on the intended target? Casting on the
>>arrow and then shooting the arrow multiplies the chance of failure
>>even if in the unlikely event that your DM allows it.
>>
>>As a DM, I'd say:
>>A: The spell had no effect on the non-magical arrow/bolt/bullet.
>>The spell is wasted. Maybe roll some dice for show.
>>
>>B: The arrow/bolt/bullet is now non-magical. Only normal spell failure
>>chance if any. Maybe there was a reason the PC needed a non-magical
>>arrow. An odd chance this could create a delayed action arrow once the
>>dispel magic expires. Delayed action would depend on what kind of
>>magical arrow it was before dispel was cast. Maybe a delayed action
>>fire arrow for example.
>>
>>C: Trying to create a magical item during combat? Chance of failure
>>would be extremely high even if the PC has created such an
>>item previously. If this has never been attempted as per the create
>>item rules, I'd allow the waste of time and spells and then say it
>>failed. Roll some dice for show.
>>
>>D: Outside of combat, standard create magical item rules apply with
>>adjustments for crude conditions if done outside of a laboratory.
>>This could be near impossible if the PC hasn't been successful
>>previously under ideal conditions. Depending on which version
>>rules, this could be ugly.
>>
>>E: Provide a merchant that sells dispel magic arrows/bolts/bullets.
>>Probably at an outrageous price if it will affect the game to much.
>>Maybe on the shelf next to the dispel magic wands.
>>
>
> Jay Bebetze
> the_goblin@mindspring.com
> gbb301@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
> Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/6914
> "Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est." Catullus, Roman Poet
> There is nothing dumber than to grin at the wrong time.
>

Actually you can handle this in a mundane manner. Have a trap or kobold
operated seige engine device shoot arrows down a corridor. The type of
device I'm talking about is one that holds a couple of hundred arrows
with a board setup behind them that when released hurls them down the
corridor, or over a castle wall. With 200 arrows hurling down a corridor
there's no where to hide, so the stoneskin fails and the bad guys can
rush out and finish the job.

Course I'd have the bad guys attack them in numbers a couple of days
prior to this so that you can establish that the bad guys are aware of
the player tactic.
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 8:37:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.adnd (More info?)

Rather than trying to think of a way for encounters to instantly defeat the
stoneskin spell, think about the way(s) in which the party is using the
spell. IMO, players will realize what you are doing and see it as "you
against the party(which in this case, it might be)."
The spell is not all powerful(it only affects one person, so there should be
others vulnerable). Are you allowing them to exploit this spell to gain
unrealistic advantage of situations? Do they have an infinite number of
usages of this spell? Probably not, so are you allowing them to just go
rest and get them back? If so, create situations that prevent them from
doing this, when the party intends to exploit spells. Also for future
attempts to stop exploitation force them to use components for spells. In
this case, granite and 250 gp worth of diamond dust. That should add up
quickly enough to make them use spells properly.
"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jai5p09fc0rtd21kp0imahj6a2aam8rfce@4ax.com...
> Actually, what I'm trying to do is counter the spell Stoneskin. I was
> going to have any random
> encounters have missle weapons with dispel magic on the arrows. I figured
> massed flights with the
> first couple of shots having that on the arrow would eliminate any
> advantage the PCs would have.
> I just want to let my players know that they are not invunerable. I sure
> as hell wasn't going to let
> the players have this.
> Might just settle for massed archers and or slingers.
> Maybe some javelins and atlatls..........
>
> On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:14:07 -0500, "CryptWolf"
> <RWilliams01nospam@no.spam.sceinet.no.spam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jay Betbeze" <the_goblin@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:v13ro0l8qsgtf9ubhiah5ekhjlts608e74@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> What I was asking, I guess was could an arrow,sling stone/bullet/bolt
>>> that
>>had been enchanted with
>>> dispel magic be used to dispel protective spells and other effects on a
>>target creature/player?
>>
>>Why not put it in combat terms? If the spell can be cast on the arrow,
>>why not simply cast the spell on the intended target? Casting on the
>>arrow and then shooting the arrow multiplies the chance of failure
>>even if in the unlikely event that your DM allows it.
>>
>>As a DM, I'd say:
>>A: The spell had no effect on the non-magical arrow/bolt/bullet.
>>The spell is wasted. Maybe roll some dice for show.
>>
>>B: The arrow/bolt/bullet is now non-magical. Only normal spell failure
>>chance if any. Maybe there was a reason the PC needed a non-magical arrow.
>>An odd chance this could create a delayed action arrow once the dispel
>>magic expires. Delayed action would depend on what kind of magical arrow
>>it was before dispel was cast. Maybe a delayed action fire arrow for
>>example.
>>
>>C: Trying to create a magical item during combat? Chance of failure
>>would be extremely high even if the PC has created such an
>>item previously. If this has never been attempted as per the create
>>item rules, I'd allow the waste of time and spells and then say it failed.
>>Roll some dice for show.
>>
>>D: Outside of combat, standard create magical item rules apply with
>>adjustments for crude conditions if done outside of a laboratory.
>>This could be near impossible if the PC hasn't been successful
>>previously under ideal conditions. Depending on which version
>>rules, this could be ugly.
>>
>>E: Provide a merchant that sells dispel magic arrows/bolts/bullets.
>>Probably at an outrageous price if it will affect the game to much.
>>Maybe on the shelf next to the dispel magic wands.
>>
>
> Jay Bebetze
> the_goblin@mindspring.com
> gbb301@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
> Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/6914
> "Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est." Catullus, Roman Poet
> There is nothing dumber than to grin at the wrong time.
!