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[Crawl] The 'Joy' of newbie stupidness

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Anonymous
August 3, 2004 1:10:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Though I *am* a newbie to Crawl, this one reminds me too badly to that
fact: my young draconian summoner had found a spear of freezing very
soon, what should made life much easier for the first few levels.
While this wasn't my first summoner, I never managed to cast 'Stick to
Snakes' successfully. I thought I need some wooden stuff in my inventory
and so I collected some bolts. Bolts *are* made of wood, aren't they?
Most of you surely know already what now will follow:

Cast which spell ([?*] list)?
Your uncursed runed spear of freezing stops glowing.
You are now empty-handed.
You create a snake!

That's for that fine spear of freezing...

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 7:12:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> screamed:

> Though I *am* a newbie to Crawl, this one reminds me too badly to
> that fact: my young draconian summoner had found a spear of
> freezing very soon, what should made life much easier for the
> first few levels. While this wasn't my first summoner, I never
> managed to cast 'Stick to Snakes' successfully. I thought I need
> some wooden stuff in my inventory and so I collected some bolts.
> Bolts *are* made of wood, aren't they? Most of you surely know
> already what now will follow:

> Cast which spell ([?*] list)?
> Your uncursed runed spear of freezing stops glowing.
> You are now empty-handed.
> You create a snake!

> That's for that fine spear of freezing...

You're not alone, I did that with a nifty scythe once, and I'd cast
Sticks to Snakes successfully before - I just didn't know scythes
were wood. <g>

I don't think bolts are wood, I think they're metal. (Bolts are
'Bolzen', 'Armbrustbolzen' in this case. More like darts than
arrows.) Arrows are wood, and all those clubs are, as are
quarterstaffs, spears as you noticed, scythes, bows.

You need to wield the item that you want to turn into a snake. If
it's cursed, the snakes will be hostile, if it's not cursed the
snakes will be friendly.

A 'big' single item (like clubs) will make a dark green snake. A
bunch of arrows will use up two for two light green snakes.

Don't know whether the critters will get tougher with more skill.

Before you make the same mistake with Sublimation of Blood; you need
to _wield_ chunks of meat to turn them (one by one) into Mana. If
you don't wield any, it'll draw on your own body; hitpoint loss. You
need to wield a skeleton to turn it into Bone Shards, too. Probably
everything else goes along the same line, as well. (Sandblast &
stones come to mind.)

--
Tina the Cutter - the Favourite Plaything of the Receding Nonsensical Greek
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 7:12:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 03:12:00 GMT+1, Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall)
wrote:

>A 'big' single item (like clubs) will make a dark green snake. A
>bunch of arrows will use up two for two light green snakes.
>
>Don't know whether the critters will get tougher with more skill.

They do. Once you can turn arrows into regular snakes, it starts to be
a rather nifty spell.

I do think that you should also be able to get niftier snakes when you
use a better weapon. Even if pluses are ignored, the "of freezing"
ought to count for something.

Richard Daniel Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Related resources
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 8:47:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> screamed:
>
>> [snip unprofessional use of 'Stick to Snakes']
>
> You're not alone, I did that with a nifty scythe once, and I'd cast
> Sticks to Snakes successfully before - I just didn't know scythes
> were wood. <g>

Usually I'm heavily spoiled already after so many hours of playing (and
thus wouldn't do silly things like that). But for Crawl there are simply
not very much spoilers around. Don't no why, but I like it!

> I don't think bolts are wood, I think they're metal. (Bolts are
> 'Bolzen', 'Armbrustbolzen' in this case. More like darts than
> arrows.) Arrows are wood, and all those clubs are, as are
> quarterstaffs, spears as you noticed, scythes, bows.

You are probably right here. Don't ask me where I got this picture of a
thick, short wooden stick with a head of metal (or even bone) from.
Surely 100% fantasy, never saw any bolt in real life...


> You need to wield the item that you want to turn into a snake. If
> it's cursed, the snakes will be hostile, if it's not cursed the
> snakes will be friendly.

After this incident I already suspected something like this. Now I don't
have to _try_ next time.

> A 'big' single item (like clubs) will make a dark green snake. A
> bunch of arrows will use up two for two light green snakes.
>
> Don't know whether the critters will get tougher with more skill.
>
> Before you make the same mistake with Sublimation of Blood; you need
> to _wield_ chunks of meat to turn them (one by one) into Mana. If
> you don't wield any, it'll draw on your own body; hitpoint loss. You
> need to wield a skeleton to turn it into Bone Shards, too. Probably
> everything else goes along the same line, as well. (Sandblast &
> stones come to mind.)

The last ones were totally new to me, very good to know! I even did not
know about the possibility of _wielding_ meat and skeletons... And the
few times I was casting Sandblast, I thought "what a weak spell". Are
you sure about Sandblast + stones, or was it just an idea? Anyway, next
time I'll try this.
Though I don't know when this 'next time' will be: I'm currently playing
random characters (not only because it's fun, I also don't want to get
stick too early to a certain race/class combo).

Very useful informations, thanks! :-)

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 11:30:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:

> Before you make the same mistake with Sublimation of Blood; you need
> to _wield_ chunks of meat to turn them (one by one) into Mana.

Looks like I'm missing some basics here: how do you 'w'ield anything
else than a weapon? Although the 'w'ield command is described as "wield
an _item_" (and not "wield a weapon"), I never saw anything else than
the hand weapon menu!

Same with "throw an item": I can't throw anything else than weapons or
missiles - even don't know whether it's possible, but shouldn't I be
able to throw a potion of poison for instance?

What's wrong here? Something broken with my copy of Crawl perhaps?
Are we still talking about the same game? ;-)

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 11:30:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> Looks like I'm missing some basics here: how do you 'w'ield anything
> else than a weapon? Although the 'w'ield command is described as "wield
> an _item_" (and not "wield a weapon"), I never saw anything else than
> the hand weapon menu!
>
> Same with "throw an item": I can't throw anything else than weapons or
> missiles - even don't know whether it's possible, but shouldn't I be
> able to throw a potion of poison for instance?
>
> What's wrong here? Something broken with my copy of Crawl perhaps?
> Are we still talking about the same game? ;-)

When you 'w'ield, then type '?' the list only includes the things you
would normally wield for combat. You can 'w'ield, 'z'ap or 'E'voke
anything.

Another tip: You have to wield a wand that you want to use a scroll of
recharging on.

-Dalton
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 2:12:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 7:30:31 AM bork 8/3/2004 bork bork:

> how do you 'w'ield anything else than a weapon?

Most times when you get a usable items listing, there's a key -- * or ? or
something like that -- that expands it from "reasonable items" to
"everything." I *think* that a hint to this effect is even displayed
on-screen.

> Same with "throw an item":

Indeed. :-) I can't remember if it's unlimited, but I do know you can see
more than the default offering after "expanding" the list with the right key.

Erik
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 2:13:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:47:25 AM bork 8/3/2004 bork bork:

> And the few times I was casting Sandblast, I thought "what a weak spell".
> Are you sure about Sandblast + stones, or was it just an idea? Anyway,
> next time I'll try this.

Wielded stones do indeed affect the damage rating (and damage cap, IIRC) for
Sandblast. Still hardly worth it once you have anything else available,
though.

Erik
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 3:14:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 03:12:00 GMT+1, Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall)
>wrote:
>
>>A 'big' single item (like clubs) will make a dark green snake. A
>>bunch of arrows will use up two for two light green snakes.
>>
>>Don't know whether the critters will get tougher with more skill.
>
>They do. Once you can turn arrows into regular snakes, it starts to be
>a rather nifty spell.
>
>I do think that you should also be able to get niftier snakes when you
>use a better weapon. Even if pluses are ignored, the "of freezing"
>ought to count for something.

Maybe some enterprising person should sit down and create
vorpal snake
frost snake
fire snake
storm snake
blood snake (vampiric weapon)
quicksilver snake (weapon of speed)
longfang snake (weapon of reaching)
etc.
.... except I don't think I'd want to meet *any* of those :) 

m.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 4:47:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> whined:
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> screamed:

>>> [snip unprofessional use of 'Stick to Snakes']
>>
>> You're not alone, I did that with a nifty scythe once, and I'd
>> cast Sticks to Snakes successfully before - I just didn't know
>> scythes were wood. <g>

> Usually I'm heavily spoiled already after so many hours of
> playing (and thus wouldn't do silly things like that). But for
> Crawl there are simply not very much spoilers around. Don't no
> why, but I like it!

You like that there aren't many spoilers around?

>> I don't think bolts are wood, I think they're metal. (Bolts are
>> 'Bolzen', 'Armbrustbolzen' in this case. More like darts than
>> arrows.)

> You are probably right here. Don't ask me where I got this
> picture of a thick, short wooden stick with a head of metal (or
> even bone) from. Surely 100% fantasy, never saw any bolt in real
> life...

I've seen one in a movie, some film with that crazy actor from Mad
Max (playing a cop I think), except it was a bolt used in
construction, not for crossbows. <g> (Was quite mean as a weapon,
anyway, shot from the device that's used to pound them into beams.)

Could be that the English word for this kind of 'Bolzen' is
different, though.

>> Before you make the same mistake with Sublimation of Blood; you
>> need to _wield_ chunks of meat to turn them (one by one) into
>> Mana. If you don't wield any, it'll draw on your own body;
>> hitpoint loss. You need to wield a skeleton to turn it into Bone
>> Shards, too. Probably everything else goes along the same line,
>> as well. (Sandblast & stones come to mind.)

> The last ones were totally new to me, very good to know! I even
> did not know about the possibility of _wielding_ meat and
> skeletons...

Did you never accidentally wield a potion? Oh, apropos potions,
Evaporate afair does not require you to wield the potion (despite
saying 'held' in the spell's description), you'll get a menue to
chose from (like 'quaff' or 'throw' does).

> And the few times I was casting Sandblast, I thought "what a weak
> spell". Are you sure about Sandblast + stones, or was it just an
> idea?

I've read that somewhere and tried it (with my SEEE, definitely, I
even asked about large Rocks a while back, hoping or rather assuming
that they'd do a Big Chunk of damage, but was told they don't).

<checking Mark's spell spoiler because that's the quickest way to
get this text>

Here's the text that the spellbook provides when you read it and
chose Sandblast (so it isn't even a spoiler):
"This spell creates a short blast of high-velocity particles. It
works best when the caster provides some source (by wielding a
stone), but will do what it can with whatever ambient grit is
available."

While we're at it (Sublimation of Blood):
"This spell converts flesh, blood, and other bodily fluids into
magical energy. Casters may focus this spell on their own bodies
(which can be dangerous but never directly lethal) or can wield
freshly butchered flesh in order to draw power into themselves."

(Bone Shards):
"This spell uses the bones of a skeleton (or similar materials: the
rigid exoskeleton of an insect, for example) to dispense a lethal
spray of slicing fragments, allowing its caster to dispense with
conjurations in favour of necromancy alone to provide a low-level
yet very powerful offensive spell. The use of a large and heavy
skeleton (by wielding it) amplifies this spell's effect."

Last but not least (and less clear) Sticks to Snakes:
"This spell uses wooden items in the caster's grasp as raw material
for a powerful summoning. Note that highly enchanted items, such as
wizard's staves, may not be affected."

'Grasp' could be misinterpreted, I guess.

I think I'll have to add (to the Guide) the possibility to get some
minimum info on spells by reading the books. <g> (It's a different
command than memorizing, incase anyone would confuse the two.)

> Anyway, next time I'll try this. Though I don't know when this
> 'next time' will be: I'm currently playing random characters (not
> only because it's fun, I also don't want to get stick too early to
> a certain race/class combo).

One bit of advice I have already in the Guide is not to play random
characters because you could end up with a very unlucky combination,
and if you want to get anywhere interesting, it's better to chose
something that matches your style and/or goals (in the case of the
latter you might have to adjust your style).

But as long as you're having fun. :) 

> Very useful informations, thanks! :-)

My pleasure. :) 

--
Tina the Impregnable - the Favourite Plaything of the Russian Notable Goad
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 6:22:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> screeched:
> R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote:

[Sticks to Snakes]
>> I do think that you should also be able to get niftier snakes
>> when you use a better weapon. Even if pluses are ignored, the
>> "of freezing" ought to count for something.

> Maybe some enterprising person should sit down and create
> vorpal snake
> frost snake
> fire snake
> storm snake
> blood snake (vampiric weapon)
> quicksilver snake (weapon of speed)
> longfang snake (weapon of reaching)
> etc.
> ... except I don't think I'd want to meet *any* of those :) 

LOL. :) 

They'd only appear temporary (from the player, anyway), and maybe
only much later in the game as hostile monsters.

--
Tina the Prestidigitator - a High Priest of the Regal Neutralizing Gatherer
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 6:22:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> shouted:
> Tina Hall wrote:

>> Before you make the same mistake with Sublimation of Blood; you
>> need to _wield_ chunks of meat to turn them (one by one) into
>> Mana.

> Looks like I'm missing some basics here: how do you 'w'ield
> anything else than a weapon? Although the 'w'ield command is
> described as "wield an _item_" (and not "wield a weapon"), I
> never saw anything else than the hand weapon menu!

Press '*' to get a full list, or just press the letter of the item
right after the 'w'ield command (if you know the letter).

The menue is just a helpful interface, not resticting you in your
choice. Afair the default setting (that's changed in the init.txt)
has 'no menue' after a wield/Wear/quaff/whatever command, so you'd
have to press '?' for 'useful items' and '*' for 'all items'.

> Same with "throw an item": I can't throw anything else than
> weapons or missiles - even don't know whether it's possible, but
> shouldn't I be able to throw a potion of poison for instance?

You can throw anything you want, but potions need the spell of
Evaporate, otherwise they'll have no effect.

> What's wrong here? Something broken with my copy of Crawl
> perhaps?

Have you read what little stuff came with the game (crawl.txt,
readme.txt, init.txt)?

> Are we still talking about the same game? ;-)

I hope so. <g>

--
Tina the Severer - a Follower of the Riled Neon Glacier
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 6:42:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Erik Piper" <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:
> bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:47:25 AM bork 8/3/2004 bork bork:

>> And the few times I was casting Sandblast, I thought "what a weak
>> spell". Are you sure about Sandblast + stones, or was it just an
>> idea? Anyway, next time I'll try this.

> Wielded stones do indeed affect the damage rating (and damage cap,
> IIRC) for Sandblast. Still hardly worth it once you have anything
> else available, though.

You'd be surprised. Sandblast is the most cost-effective attack spell
an earth elementalist has in the early game, and is a very nifty spell
indeed once you have your Earth and Transmigration skills up. Earth
elementalists have the easiest time in the Hive, for instance. One
stone == one dead killer bee.

Darshan
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 9:03:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 7:30:31 AM bork 8/3/2004 bork bork:
>
>> how do you 'w'ield anything else than a weapon?
>
> Most times when you get a usable items listing, there's a key -- * or
> ? or something like that -- that expands it from "reasonable items" to
> "everything." I *think* that a hint to this effect is even displayed
> on-screen.

Meanwhile I've found the source of all my confusion: I was using the
option auto_list = true, which is described as "...and can be confusing
to beginners because they won't get to see the prompts". At least I know
now _how_ this confusion works! ;-) Since this option shows a list of
_appropriate_ items, I was under the impression that there are no other
options left than those items in the list. Oh well...

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 9:14:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dalton Wudrich wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:
>> Looks like I'm missing some basics here: how do you 'w'ield anything
>> else than a weapon?
>
> When you 'w'ield, then type '?' the list only includes the things you
> would normally wield for combat. You can 'w'ield, 'z'ap or 'E'voke
> anything.

The whole problem was 'auto_list = true'. In this case '?' doesn't work
anymore, but fortunately '*' still does. ;-)

Thanks,
Rubinstein
!