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[Crawl] Sword of Slicing, much better than expected

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Anonymous
August 6, 2004 3:06:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

I'm currently playing a L8 Hill Dwarf Healer on dlvl 7. So far I was
quite pleased with my +1,+2 quarterstaff, staves skill is at 5 now.
Lately I was experimenting with a long sword of slicing, which seems
significantly better than the staff (no skill on swords yet!). It's also
a 'weapon for the dexterous', which makes me wonder since my Dwarf
surely isn't (Dex: 10, Str: 18).

So, is the sword actually so much better that it outweigh the missing
skill and Dex?
What does 'slicing' actually do?

I'm also unsure whether I should go on with training the staves skill,
since I've found a staff of conjuration, which is pretty useless right
now, but maybe later this could change. OTOH I could use a shield
together with the sword. Looks like I'ld need a helping hand here...

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 3:06:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in news:ceu7hh$kjc$00$1@news.t-
online.com:

> I'm currently playing a L8 Hill Dwarf Healer on dlvl 7. So far I was
> quite pleased with my +1,+2 quarterstaff, staves skill is at 5 now.
> Lately I was experimenting with a long sword of slicing, which seems
> significantly better than the staff (no skill on swords yet!). It's also
> a 'weapon for the dexterous', which makes me wonder since my Dwarf
> surely isn't (Dex: 10, Str: 18).
>
> So, is the sword actually so much better that it outweigh the missing
> skill and Dex?
> What does 'slicing' actually do?
>
Vaporizing enemy quickly. It's a third best enchantment possible, don't
counting a weapon of dissortion.
> I'm also unsure whether I should go on with training the staves skill,
> since I've found a staff of conjuration, which is pretty useless right
> now, but maybe later this could change. OTOH I could use a shield
> together with the sword. Looks like I'ld need a helping hand here...
>
Switch weapons?



--
Kizutsuite 'ta ano hi kara
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 3:06:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Raghar <notfor@mail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns953D5C5616F5Raghar@195.250.128.45>...
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in news:ceu7hh$kjc$00$1@news.t-
> online.com:
>
> > I'm currently playing a L8 Hill Dwarf Healer on dlvl 7. So far I was
> > quite pleased with my +1,+2 quarterstaff, staves skill is at 5 now.
> > Lately I was experimenting with a long sword of slicing, which seems
> > significantly better than the staff (no skill on swords yet!). It's also
> > a 'weapon for the dexterous', which makes me wonder since my Dwarf
> > surely isn't (Dex: 10, Str: 18).
> >
> > So, is the sword actually so much better that it outweigh the missing
> > skill and Dex?
> > What does 'slicing' actually do?
> >
> Vaporizing enemy quickly. It's a third best enchantment possible, don't
> counting a weapon of dissortion.
[snip]
> Switch weapons?

"Slicing", "Chopping", and "Crushing" all releate to the names of the
weapons; Slicing for swords, chopping for axes, and crushing for
maces.

They all have one effect though; they increase damage done. A highly
enchanted sword of slicing is far, far better then a +1,+2
Quarterstaff. A DemonSpawn Warrior of mine had a +3 Flail of Crushing
with about 18 Str and he would kill a Cyclops/Ogre/Centaur in 2
hits... Truely helpful.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 5:27:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Raghar wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in
> news:ceu7hh$kjc$00$1@news.t- online.com:
>
>> [...]
>> So, is the sword actually so much better that it outweigh the missing
>> skill and Dex?
>> What does 'slicing' actually do?
>
> Vaporizing enemy quickly. It's a third best enchantment possible,
> don't counting a weapon of dissortion.

Thanks, but sorry, that doesn't tell me much since I don't know anything
about the first and second best enchantment! ;-) Also 'slicing' doesn't
seem to be a 'branding': I couldn't find anything in weapon spoilers
under the branding department... Isn't it possible to express the extra
damage from slicing in something like double, triple or 1.5x damage?

>> I'm also unsure whether I should go on with training the staves
>> skill, since I've found a staff of conjuration, which is pretty
>> useless right now, but maybe later this could change. OTOH I could
>> use a shield together with the sword. Looks like I'ld need a helping
>> hand here...
>
> Switch weapons?

That's always possible, of course. Though I thought, splitting skills
isn't that optimal, not true? Anyway, for now I'll keep using the sword,
it's really impressive! My sword skill is going up like hell and is
already better than my staves skill.

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 8:53:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mechanoid wrote:
> Raghar <notfor@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:<Xns953D5C5616F5Raghar@195.250.128.45>...
>> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in
>> news:ceu7hh$kjc$00$1@news.t- online.com:
>>
>> > [snip What does 'slicing' actually do?]
>>
>> Vaporizing enemy quickly. It's a third best enchantment possible,
>> don't counting a weapon of dissortion.
>
> [snip]
> They all have one effect though; they increase damage done. A highly
> enchanted sword of slicing is far, far better then a +1,+2
> Quarterstaff.

Are there also some staves around with a comparable damaging effect?
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 9:21:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>Are there also some staves around with a comparable damaging effect?

That'd be Crushing, I believe.



I'm curious -- what do y'all think are the number one and two best
enchantments? :) 
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 4:11:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Winged Coyote wrote:
>>Are there also some staves around with a comparable damaging effect?
>
>
> That'd be Crushing, I believe.
>
> I'm curious -- what do y'all think are the number one and two best
> enchantments? :) 

Depends on the weapon type. My favourites are:

Slicing/chopping/piercing/crushing, freezing, burning: +25% (that is
d(damage_taken)/2 )normally, +50% to vulnerable, nothing to immune
monsters (for fire/ice) so it's great for heavy stuff.

Speed: 50% energy usage:
This needs a bit of calculation. Your weapon speed is
(base weapon speed (that is 13 for 130%)- half your weapon skill) but
never less than 3 (short blades), 5(when using two hands) or half base
speed (else).
A weapon of speed halves this cost (round up)
Now we add +1 for a shield, +2 for a large shield and cap the spped at 3.
So a high skill two handed weapon gets +50% damage while a low skill
heavy weapon might get +100%, a short sword with shield gets +33% and a
short swort without shield gets nothing.
Unfortunately most weapons of speed (apart from polearms) are quite
quick anyway so the bonus is lost.


Electroluction: 1/3 chance of (3d28/3) extra damage (+4.67 on average,
great for daggers) unless the monster resists or flies.

Draining: 2/3 chance of reducing the target's HP by 2+d3 and causing
+25% extra damage; useless against undead/daemons.

Venom: 3/4 chance of poisoning. Great fun in the early game.

Lars
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 5:27:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Winged Coyote <wingedcoyote@aol.com> screamed:

> I'm curious -- what do y'all think are the number one and two
> best enchantments? :) 

Brands you mean?

The question is flawed because it assumes that slicing is the third
for everyone. :) 

I'd say any of the four pure damage ones is the best allaround
weapon (slicing, chopping, crushing, piercing).

Next is maybe vampiric draining or protection.

That's three.

Anything else is too specific in that monsters resist it (vampiric
draining too, but that's why protection is next to it). And
distortion is just pure horror, so it's on the bottom of my list,
below the -3/-3 cursed knife. I'd rather wield no weapon.

Actually, if 'no weapon' is an option, Unarmed Combat would be the
second on my list, and the third is protection.

--
Tina the Metallomancer - the Champion of the Resentful Nutty Grit
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 10:37:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:
> Winged Coyote <wingedcoyote@aol.com> screamed:
>
>> I'm curious -- what do y'all think are the number one and two
>> best enchantments? :) 
>
> Brands you mean?
>
> The question is flawed because it assumes that slicing is the third
> for everyone. :) 
>
> I'd say any of the four pure damage ones is the best allaround
> weapon (slicing, chopping, crushing, piercing).

The terminology of 'brand' is confusing me somewhat.
If you take a look at
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/melee.php
Chapter 3. Weapon Brands, then you don't see any of the four above
mentioned. It appears to me that those extra damage types are not
'brands' in official Scrawl terminology.
OTOH they are nowhere mentioned on this side at all, what's confusing me
even nore. :-/

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 7, 2004 11:11:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

wingedcoyote@aol.com (Winged Coyote) wrote in
news:20040806012119.22984.00003017@mb-m07.aol.com:
> I'm curious -- what do y'all think are the number one and two best
> enchantments? :) 
Pain, draining.
Of course it would depend on your character and playing style.


--
Kizutsuite 'ta ano hi kara
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 10:14:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:37:23 +0200, Rubinstein

>The terminology of 'brand' is confusing me somewhat.
>If you take a look at
>http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/melee.php
>Chapter 3. Weapon Brands, then you don't see any of the four above
>mentioned. It appears to me that those extra damage types are not
>'brands' in official Scrawl terminology.
>OTOH they are nowhere mentioned on this side at all, what's confusing me
>even nore. :-/

The crushing, slicing, chopping are just specific names for different
weapons of the vorpal brand.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 4:26:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Winged Coyote wrote:
>>Are there also some staves around with a comparable damaging effect?
>
>
> That'd be Crushing, I believe.

You're right, I have had one.
Tomasz
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 11:40:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in message news:<ceu7hh$kjc$00$1@news.t-online.com>...
> I'm currently playing a L8 Hill Dwarf Healer on dlvl 7. So far I was
> quite pleased with my +1,+2 quarterstaff, staves skill is at 5 now.
> Lately I was experimenting with a long sword of slicing, which seems
> significantly better than the staff (no skill on swords yet!). It's also
> a 'weapon for the dexterous', which makes me wonder since my Dwarf
> surely isn't (Dex: 10, Str: 18).

The 'better for the strong' and 'better for the dexterous' are merely
in-game tips. The weapon damage & toHit is affected by this, but not
to a great degree. (Except for Giant Clubs & Maces - for those you
need good Str!)

> So, is the sword actually so much better that it outweigh the missing
> skill and Dex?
> What does 'slicing' actually do?

Slicing is one of the "vorpal" brands, which does approx +25% damage
to your opponent.
Vorpal weapons are labeled: 'slicing' for edged, 'crushing' for blunt
and 'piercing' for stabbing.

> I'm also unsure whether I should go on with training the staves skill,
> since I've found a staff of conjuration, which is pretty useless right
> now, but maybe later this could change. OTOH I could use a shield
> together with the sword. Looks like I'ld need a helping hand here...

In general, staves are not a great choice. The only characters that
should consider them are spellcasters. Use the longsword of slicing!

My weapon preferences are:
1) Cool randart weapons. (duh!)
2) Vorpal
3) Flame (to kill nasty Hydras!)
4) Poison (for the early game)

-Dalton
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:19:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dalton Wudrich wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:<ceu7hh$kjc$00$1@news.t-online.com>...
>
>> I'm currently playing a L8 Hill Dwarf Healer on dlvl 7. So far I was
>> quite pleased with my +1,+2 quarterstaff, staves skill is at 5 now.
>> Lately I was experimenting with a long sword of slicing, which seems
>> significantly better than the staff (no skill on swords yet!).
>
> [...]
>
>> What does 'slicing' actually do?
>
> Slicing is one of the "vorpal" brands, which does approx +25% damage
> to your opponent.

Thanks for clarifying! :-) Just one question: "+25% damage" doesn't seem
too much, at least when the PC is completely untrained in that weapon
class. So what does it actually mean, 25% from the monsters max HP (what
would be much more impressive and also better fitting to my experiences
with that weapon) or just +25% from the weapons damage (though that is
what the '+' suggests)?

Rubinstein
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <cfap1i$vn8$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
>So what does it actually mean, 25% from the monsters max HP (what
>would be much more impressive and also better fitting to my experiences
>with that weapon) or just +25% from the weapons damage (though that is
>what the '+' suggests)?

It means that if your hit would have done 10 points of damage, the 'of
slicing' will do an extra 1-5 points of damage (on average, 3 points).
So on average you do 25% more damage than you would with just a plain
weapon: note that this bonus operates on the total damage including any
+ to dam, your STR and weapon skills etc etc, not just on the base
damage for the weapon.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:23:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mark Mackey <markm@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:<a-h*VSJrq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>...
> In article <cfap1i$vn8$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
> >So what does it actually mean, 25% from the monsters max HP (what
> >would be much more impressive and also better fitting to my experiences
> >with that weapon) or just +25% from the weapons damage (though that is
> >what the '+' suggests)?
>
> It means that if your hit would have done 10 points of damage, the 'of
> slicing' will do an extra 1-5 points of damage (on average, 3 points).
> So on average you do 25% more damage than you would with just a plain
> weapon: note that this bonus operates on the total damage including any
> + to dam, your STR and weapon skills etc etc, not just on the base
> damage for the weapon.

Here's a spoily example: (I've created a Excel spreadsheet that
calculates weapon damages, so I can compare weapons.)
Using my current character:
Str 15, Dex 21 and Skill of 15 with his +4 +5 Long Sword of Slicing

No Slicing:
Average damage = 16
Max damage = 24

With Slicing:
Average damage = 20
Max damage = 36

-Dalton
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 7:27:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dalton Wudrich wrote:
> Mark Mackey <markm@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:<a-h*VSJrq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>...
>> In article <cfap1i$vn8$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Rubinstein
>> <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
>> > So what does it actually mean, 25% from the monsters max HP (what
>> > would be much more impressive and also better fitting to my
>> > experiences with that weapon) or just +25% from the weapons damage
>> > (though that is what the '+' suggests)?
>>
>> It means that if your hit would have done 10 points of damage, the
>> 'of slicing' will do an extra 1-5 points of damage (on average, 3
>> points). So on average you do 25% more damage than you would with
>> just a plain weapon: note that this bonus operates on the total
>> damage including any + to dam, your STR and weapon skills etc etc,
>> not just on the base damage for the weapon.

Your last note explains a lot: the sword of slicing was enchanted (+2
IIRC).

> Here's a spoily example: (I've created a Excel spreadsheet that
> calculates weapon damages, so I can compare weapons.) Using my current
> character: Str 15, Dex 21 and Skill of 15 with his +4 +5 Long Sword of
> Slicing
>
> No Slicing: Average damage = 16 Max damage = 24
>
> With Slicing: Average damage = 20 Max damage = 36

Apparently I just overrated the skill bonus. I'm slowly getting a
feeling for it...

Thanks again,
Rubinstein
!