Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

[Crawl] YACD - which skills to turn off?

Last response: in Video Games
Share
September 1, 2004 12:42:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Hi all,

Working on a Demonspawn Monk at present, and I think he's got the
potential to end up being one of this newbie's better characters. I've
been waffling over what to do with my skills, though, and was curious
to see what the more experienced players here might suggest! Here's
the dump:

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Xob the Black Belt (Demonspawn)
(Level 10 Monk)

Play time: 03:27:34 Number of turns: 14015

Experience : 10/9651
Strength 11 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 16
Hit Points : 73 Magic Points : 12/16
AC : 11 Evasion : 12 Shield : 0
GP : 71

You are in the Lair.
You worship Yredelemnul.
// Trying out the different gods right now...
Yredelemnul is most pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - an uncursed dagger
u - the +2,+2 sabre of Unjust Enrichment
It has been blessed by the Shining One to harm undead and cause
great
damage to the unholy creatures of Hell or Pandemonium.
It affects your AC (+1).
It protects you from fire.
It protects you from magic.
// Am fighting unarmed, but thought I'd hang onto this in case it ends
up
// being useful later.

Armour
b - a +4 leather armour (worn)
h - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
p - a +0 cloak (worn)
s - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
Magical devices
D - a wand of digging
E - a wand of fire
Q - a wand of lightning
R - a wand of frost
W - a wand of disintegration
Comestibles
f - 2 bread rations
g - 2 meat rations
y - a chunk of snake flesh
Scrolls
d - 3 scrolls of remove curse
j - 4 scrolls of teleportation
n - 2 scrolls of detect curse
o - 2 scrolls of fear
x - a scroll labeled NFRXTAXAXIB N
z - a scroll labeled IFUB WI
B - a scroll labeled GOQIG
C - 2 scrolls labeled UKOBECUXIFR
// plus a bunch more teleportation etc stashed

Jewellery
c - a ring of fire
e - a +5,+4 ring of slaying (left hand)
i - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
k - a ring of teleportation
v - a +0,+5 ring of slaying
A - a +2 ring of protection (right hand)
// I found both rings of slaying by about dlvl 5 - thanks, Really Nice
Guy! :) 

Potions
l - 2 potions of restore abilities
m - a potion of cure mutation
q - a potion of invisibility
r - 2 potions of healing
w - 2 potions of might
F - a potion of speed
Books
t - a book of Minor Magic
G - a book of Flames
H - a book of Transfigurations


You have 72 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 6 Fighting
+ Level 7 Dodging
- Level 3 Stealth
+ Level 2 Stabbing
+ Level 11 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 3 Spellcasting
- Level 4 Conjurations
- Level 1 Fire Magic
+ Level 2 Invocations
+ Level 4 Evocations
// OK - this is where I'm unsure. Perhaps I should turn off In- and
Evocations;
// probably don't need to work on Conjurations and Fire Magic any
more, since
// I think I want to focus on my new Book of Transmigrations. Maybe
Stabbing
// should go off, too. Thoughts?


You have 10 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success
Level
a - Magic Dart Conjuration Very Good
1
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Good
2
c - Blink Translocation Fair
2

Mutations & Other Weirdness
* You can control translocations.
* You have a pair of large horns on your head.
// Was glad I got this one...
* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.
// Never encountered this one before. Hope he survives long enough for
it to
// become useful!

Anyway, there it is... thanks for any help you might offer (and thanks
to everyone who posts here... lurking here and reading through old
posts are very enlightening!)

More about : crawl yacd skills turn

Anonymous
September 2, 2004 2:49:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 1 Sep 2004 08:42:25 -0700, robfromcanada@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote:

>Xob the Black Belt (Demonspawn)
>(Level 10 Monk)
>
>Play time: 03:27:34 Number of turns: 14015
>
>Experience : 10/9651
>Strength 11 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 16
>Hit Points : 73 Magic Points : 12/16
>AC : 11 Evasion : 12 Shield : 0
>GP : 71
>
>You are in the Lair.
>You worship Yredelemnul.
>// Trying out the different gods right now...
>Yredelemnul is most pleased with you.
>You are not hungry.

Are you finding Yredelemnul useful?

> Inventory:
>Hand weapons
> a - an uncursed dagger
> u - the +2,+2 sabre of Unjust Enrichment
> It has been blessed by the Shining One to harm undead and cause
>great
> damage to the unholy creatures of Hell or Pandemonium.
> It affects your AC (+1).
> It protects you from fire.
> It protects you from magic.
>// Am fighting unarmed, but thought I'd hang onto this in case it ends
>up
>// being useful later.

Can you actually wield this? I thought demonspawn couldn't wield holy
weapons? Or is okay because its an artifact?

>Jewellery
> c - a ring of fire
> e - a +5,+4 ring of slaying (left hand)
> i - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
> k - a ring of teleportation
> v - a +0,+5 ring of slaying
> A - a +2 ring of protection (right hand)
>// I found both rings of slaying by about dlvl 5 - thanks, Really Nice
>Guy! :) 

I'd wear both rings of slaying (unless they don't stack). +2
protection isn't much and hitting really hard is often the best
defense. Then again, I'm not very good at Crawl.


> Mutations & Other Weirdness
>* You can control translocations.

Useful.

>* You have a pair of large horns on your head.
>// Was glad I got this one...

No good helmets, then? Certainly with your focus on Unarmed Combat,
this is much better than for most characters.

>* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.

Don't forget this if you get cornered while out of teleport by some
hideously unbeatable monster.

Richard Daniel Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:06:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

robfromcanada@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in news:894580d0.0409010742.66ad7e02
@posting.google.com:

> Skills:
> + Level 6 Fighting
> + Level 7 Dodging
> - Level 3 Stealth
> + Level 2 Stabbing
> + Level 11 Unarmed Combat
> + Level 3 Spellcasting
> - Level 4 Conjurations
> - Level 1 Fire Magic
> + Level 2 Invocations
> + Level 4 Evocations
> // OK - this is where I'm unsure. Perhaps I should turn off In- and
> Evocations;
> // probably don't need to work on Conjurations and Fire Magic any
> more, since
> // I think I want to focus on my new Book of Transmigrations. Maybe
> Stabbing
> // should go off, too. Thoughts?


I'm a big fan of evocations myself, especially for any fighting type. If
you didn't know, Evocation skill give you a chance of spontaneously
learning how many charges a wand has each time you use it. This has saved
my character's life more than once. It would have saved many more, if I
had had it.:)  Too often, I whip out a wand of
cold/lightning/draining/disintegrate as my desperation play against a big
baddy that's within a hit or two of killing me, aim carefully and...
nothing. Except it laughing at me as it finishes me off.
Anyway, no point in turning it off in my opinion. They only practice if
you use them, and if you obviously want the skill to use to be better,
right? Same with conjuration: if you're casting conjuration spells,
obviously that's something you want to be as good as possible. The
secondary magic skill, like fire, is less important, especially if you
want to use a variety of spells, so it can turn off no problem.
Related resources
September 2, 2004 4:59:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>>* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.
> Don't forget this if you get cornered while out of teleport by some
> hideously unbeatable monster.

.... then there you will encounter whole bunch of such unbeatable monsters,
unless you will be very fast on the feet or very strong (xp lev 20?) :-)

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net
September 2, 2004 5:38:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rob .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Scrolls
> d - 3 scrolls of remove curse
> j - 4 scrolls of teleportation
> n - 2 scrolls of detect curse
> o - 2 scrolls of fear
> x - a scroll labeled NFRXTAXAXIB N
> z - a scroll labeled IFUB WI
> B - a scroll labeled GOQIG
> C - 2 scrolls labeled UKOBECUXIFR
>// plus a bunch more teleportation etc stashed

I'd try out the unidentified scrolls, maybe there is some enchant armour if
you haven't seen it already, but I would before took off the leather armour
(plain - no point to enchant) and wield some dagger (not to waste Scrolls
of Enchant Weapon and similar).


> Jewellery
> c - a ring of fire
> e - a +5,+4 ring of slaying (left hand)
> i - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
> k - a ring of teleportation
> v - a +0,+5 ring of slaying
> A - a +2 ring of protection (right hand)

I agree with Dan Henry that both slaying rings are tempting.


> Books
> t - a book of Minor Magic
> G - a book of Flames
> H - a book of Transfigurations
>
> You have 72 experience left.
>
> Skills:
> + Level 6 Fighting
> + Level 7 Dodging
> - Level 3 Stealth
> + Level 2 Stabbing
> + Level 11 Unarmed Combat
> + Level 3 Spellcasting
> - Level 4 Conjurations
> - Level 1 Fire Magic
> + Level 2 Invocations
> + Level 4 Evocations
> OK - this is where I'm unsure. Perhaps I should turn off In- and
> Evocations; probably don't need to work on Conjurations and Fire Magic
> any more, since I think I want to focus on my new Book of
> Transmigrations. Maybe Stabbing should go off, too. Thoughts?

Yes, I would forget about conjuration spells and try out low level
enchantments, maybe divinations. Especially "Confusing Touch" is extremely
useful for monks. Transmigration is not very useful IMO unless you are a
specialist.

I never turn off Stealth and Stabbing and always have a nice dagger - in
case when round the corner there is a sleeping monster. Anyway for a monk
it's the only way to spend weapon enchanting scrolls on.

General remark: upgrading low level skills cost you very little in term of
free experience when comparing with high level skills, it just sometimes
takes a lot of time. So turning off is not a good move, as for low cost you
can have something useful. Look here, this is the amount of free experience
to raise skill from beginning (this is valid for a human, this changes
depending on the race depending on skill aptitudes; Demonspawn has almost
everything at 110 though, so the proportion is in most cases exact):

1 200
2 500
3 1000
4 1750
5 2800
6 4150
7 5850
8 7950
9 10500
10 13650
11 17400
12 21800
13 27050
14 33250
15 41250
16 51050
17 62650
18 76050
19 91250
20 108250
21 127050
22 147650
23 170050
24 194250
25 220250
26 248050
27 277650

So as you see your unarmed combat needs ~4400 points to raise from lev 11
to 12, while this is enough for raising other skill from 0 up to level 6.
IMO it's a good deal if the low skill is useful of course.


> You have 10 spell levels left.
> You know the following spells:
>
> Your Spells Type Success Level
> a - Magic Dart Conjuration Very Good 1
> b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Good 2
> c - Blink Translocation Fair 2

> * You have a pair of large horns on your head.
> Was glad I got this one...

Excellent - it upgrades your headbutt attack. And your image also. ;) 

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net/skills.php
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 7:28:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Rob" <robfromcanada@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:894580d0.0409010742.66ad7e02@posting.google.com...
> u - the +2,+2 sabre of Unjust Enrichment
> It has been blessed by the Shining One to harm undead and cause
> great
> damage to the unholy creatures of Hell or Pandemonium.
> It affects your AC (+1).
> It protects you from fire.
> It protects you from magic.
> // Am fighting unarmed, but thought I'd hang onto this in case it ends
> up
> // being useful later.

You can't wield it, can you? The fire resistance is the only real reason
to keep it around. Even if you can use it, I wouldn't bother. Not that
powerful, and there's no sense in training up short blades.

> Armour
> b - a +4 leather armour (worn)

Try on every robe you find (or detect curse them, and then try on the
uncursed ones) and look for a robe of resistance, if you want to keep
wearing light armor.

> x - a scroll labeled NFRXTAXAXIB N
> z - a scroll labeled IFUB WI
> B - a scroll labeled GOQIG
> C - 2 scrolls labeled UKOBECUXIFR

Read 'em!

> e - a +5,+4 ring of slaying (left hand)
> i - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
>> v - a +0,+5 ring of slaying
> A - a +2 ring of protection (right hand)
> // I found both rings of slaying by about dlvl 5 - thanks, Really Nice
> Guy! :) 

As everybody else said, wear both the slaying rings. Good stuff.

> Potions
> m - a potion of cure mutation

Stash this. They're rare, and it could get frozen.

> You have 72 experience left.
>
> Skills:
> + Level 6 Fighting
> + Level 7 Dodging
> - Level 3 Stealth
> + Level 2 Stabbing
> + Level 11 Unarmed Combat
> + Level 3 Spellcasting
> - Level 4 Conjurations
> - Level 1 Fire Magic
> + Level 2 Invocations
> + Level 4 Evocations
> // OK - this is where I'm unsure. Perhaps I should turn off In- and
> Evocations;
> // probably don't need to work on Conjurations and Fire Magic any
> more, since
> // I think I want to focus on my new Book of Transmigrations. Maybe
> Stabbing
> // should go off, too. Thoughts?

Well, if you insist on spellcasting, Transmigrations makes the most sense,
so you can get Blade Hands. Since your spell skills aren't that high, I'd
train Evocations, and then when your Evocations is 10 or so start using
scrolls of acquirement on staves. You'll get better spells out of rods of
destruction than you will from training Conjurations, and deflect missiles
(from a rod of warding) is almost a must-have; it'll be difficult for you
to get to the point where you can cast it, unless you're planning on
changing completely to a spellcaster. Which would be dumb -- you've got
two really good rings of slaying.

Leave Invocations on. Yredelemul is the one that does the vampiric
draining thing, isn't he? That's pretty good.

Getting another level of Conjurations and putting your Translocations and
Summoning up to level 5 would increase the chances some of getting torment
resistance as one of your demonspawn mutations, which is the sweetest plum.
It doesn't increase your chances enough that I'd bother unless you were
going to cast spells anyway, though.

--
Jeremey
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 9:30:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Here's an update... I played a few more hours and somehow stayed alive! I've
now cleared the Mines, the Lair, and the Swamp (and got my first rune of
all-time! Yay!). Thanks for your comments - they're spot on and very
helpful. Here's the latest dump:

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Xob the Sensei (Demonspawn)
(Level 15 Monk)

Play time: 09:18:12 Number of turns: 35497

Experience : 15/115147
Strength 11 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 19
Hit Points : 116 Magic Points : 27
AC : 11 Evasion : 14 Shield : 0
GP : 840

You are on level 12.
You worship Yredelemnul.

>Not finding Yredelemnul terribly useful, no. I played around with having
>some undead servants for a while, but I'm not very good at delegating. :) 
>Just got the "Drain Life" ability however, and that might come in handy
>against the larger groups of monsters.

Yredelemnul is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - an uncursed dagger

>As several people pointed out, I couldn't actually /use/ that nice sabre
>I'd been carting around since dlvl 4. *blush*

Armour
b - a +4 leather armour (worn)
c - a +2 cloak (worn)
d - a +0 pair of gloves
e - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
D - a wand of digging (3)
E - a wand of fire (11)
P - a wand of polymorph other (10)

>Saved me from a yellow wasp...

Q - a wand of disintegration
W - a wand of magic darts
Comestibles
f - 3 bread rations
g - 3 meat rations
Scrolls
h - a scroll of recharging
j - 4 scrolls of teleportation
q - 3 scrolls of detect curse
s - 5 scrolls of remove curse
x - a scroll of enchant armour
y - 3 scrolls of fear
B - a scroll of blinking

> Those unid'd scrolls turned out to be enchant weapon I, enchant weapon II,
> curse weapon, and acquirement... I deserve a good *thwap* for not id'ing
> them (especially the last one) sooner...

Jewellery
i - an amulet of clarity
k - an amulet of resist corrosion
m - a +4 ring of intelligence
p - a ring of fire
t - a +4,+4 ring of slaying (right hand)
v - a +0,+5 ring of slaying
z - the amulet of Op Borupi (around neck)
This amulet protects some of the possessions of its wearer from outright
destruction, but not infallibly so.
It protects you from poison.

A - a +2 ring of protection
K - an uncursed ring of slaying
N - a ring of sustain abilities
S - a +5,+4 ring of slaying (left hand)

> I'm going with the consensus here. Still need to get a better gut feel for
> the value of AC, EV, damage, and accuracy numbers, I think. And I found
> two more rings of slaying... the game's handing them out like candy! :) 
> I've got this guy taking out hydras and dragons in 2 or 3 series of blows,
> now...

Potions
l - 7 potions of healing
n - a potion of restore abilities
u - 3 potions of might
C - 2 potions of levitation
M - 4 potions of heal wounds
Books
w - a manual of Fire Magic
J - a book of Wizardry
L - a book of Power

Magical staves
r - a staff of poison
O - a twisted staff


You have 1316 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 10 Fighting
+ Level 11 Dodging
- Level 3 Stealth
- Level 3 Stabbing
+ Level 16 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 6 Spellcasting
- Level 6 Conjurations
- Level 3 Translocations
+ Level 6 Transmigration
+ Level 6 Fire Magic
- Level 2 Earth Magic
+ Level 2 Invocations
+ Level 6 Evocations

> Ok: I left SC, Transmigration and Fire on, since I'm using Throw Flame
> occasionally to snag fleeing monsters and thought I may as well put a few
> more points in there while I'm at it, and I'm occasionally using Blade
> Hands when faced with a particularly strong-looking monster. Not bothering
> to deliberately train them anymore, though - leaving most of the
> experience for Unarmed Combat, Fighting, and Dodging. Still not sure about
> this, I'll play around with some of your suggestions for sure.


You have 12 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Blade Hands Transmigration Fair 5
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Great 2
c - Blink Translocation Very Good 2
q - Magic Dart Conjuration Great 1
s - Spider Form Poison/Transmigration Very Good 3
w - Sandblast Earth/Transmigration Great 1

> Played around with Spider Form, decided it was too risky to suddenly lose
> all my armour. Magic Dart and Sandblast were my practice spells for
> Conjurations and Transmigration.

Mutations & Other Weirdness
* You can control translocations.
* You have a pair of large horns on your head.
* You can control demons.
* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.

> Started glowing in the Swamp after miscasting Blade Hands a couple of
> times; got the Str-1 mutation and "Your body is slowly deteriorating"...
> due to dumb luck (which seems to be the general theme of this character!)
> I had 2 potions of cure mutation... chicken soup for the mutated soul. :) 

Thanks again for all your comments!
Rob
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 2:37:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:59:52 +0200, Loonie <loonie2@tlen.pl> wrote:

>R. Dan Henry .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>>>* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.
>> Don't forget this if you get cornered while out of teleport by some
>> hideously unbeatable monster.
>
>... then there you will encounter whole bunch of such unbeatable monsters,
>unless you will be very fast on the feet or very strong (xp lev 20?) :-)

Sure, but he'll die in *style*.

Richard Daniel Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
September 3, 2004 3:21:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>>... then there you will encounter whole bunch of such unbeatable monsters,
>>unless you will be very fast on the feet or very strong (xp lev 20?) :-)
> Sure, but he'll die in *style*.

Like the Sarge from Quake III intro, I imagine.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net
September 3, 2004 3:36:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rob Curtis .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Strength 11 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 19

I wonder where you've put your stats increases - Int I suppose?


>> acquirement...

I'd take armor instead of - as I suppose - jewelery. ;-)


> Books
> w - a manual of Fire Magic

Ha! That could be maybe very useful for Dragon Form spell, (This spell
temporarily transforms the caster into a great, fire-breathing dragon. -
Fire/Transmigration Level: 8). Miscasting such could be rather unpleasant,
plus huge food expense if you don't use staff of energy.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:38:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Loonie" <loonie2@tlen.pl> wrote in message
news:25ljgztqvy30$.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr...
> Rob Curtis .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>> Strength 11 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 19
>
> I wonder where you've put your stats increases - Int I suppose?
Indeed... partly reflex, partly wanting to get better at casting Blink. I
suppose now it might be better to feed them into Str or Dex - how do those
affect unarmed combat?

>
>
>>> acquirement...
>
> I'd take armor instead of - as I suppose - jewelery. ;-)
Heh. :)  Can't remember what I picked, but I do remember the item wasn't very
helpful; probably wasn't jewelry, there's an unusually large number of rings
kicking around the dungeon this time through...

>
>
>> Books
>> w - a manual of Fire Magic
>
> Ha! That could be maybe very useful for Dragon Form spell, (This spell
> temporarily transforms the caster into a great, fire-breathing dragon. -
> Fire/Transmigration Level: 8). Miscasting such could be rather unpleasant,
> plus huge food expense if you don't use staff of energy.
I've been looking at that spell with longing in my eyes for a while. :)  Will
keep it in mind.

Rob
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 9:36:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> barked:
> "Rob" <robfromcanada@yahoo.com> wrote

>> Skills:
[...]
>> // OK - this is where I'm unsure. Perhaps I should turn off In-
>> and Evocations; // probably don't need to work on Conjurations
>> and Fire Magic any more, since // I think I want to focus on my
>> new Book of Transmigrations. Maybe Stabbing // should go off,
>> too. Thoughts?

> Well, if you insist on spellcasting, Transmigrations makes the
> most sense, so you can get Blade Hands. Since your spell skills
> aren't that high, I'd train Evocations, and then when your
> Evocations is 10 or so start using scrolls of acquirement on
> staves.

He's already got spellskills. Trying for a staff will likely just
provide him with a staff instead of a rod...

> Leave Invocations on. Yredelemul is the one that does the
> vampiric draining thing, isn't he? That's pretty good.

Yes. It's neat when you've got lots of not too tough monsters around
(like bees), and ok when you need hitpoints in the middle of a
battle, as long as there are some living monsters around.

> Getting another level of Conjurations and putting your
> Translocations and Summoning up to level 5 would increase the
> chances some of getting torment resistance as one of your
> demonspawn mutations, which is the sweetest plum.

Except it doesn't work properly. It doesn't make you immune to the
Torment you get thrown at you in Hell... My DSFE ("* You are immune
to unholy pain and torment.") wasn't pleased with that...

--
Tina the Sneak - a Believer of the Rash Numb Grit
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 12:52:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_28158c49@fidonet.org...

> He's already got spellskills. Trying for a staff will likely just
> provide him with a staff instead of a rod...

I think you've 75% chance of getting a rod if your evocations is higher
than any of your spell skills, but having me look at the source is a lot
like having a monkey... well, look at the source, I guess.

[torment resistance]

> Except it doesn't work properly. It doesn't make you immune to the
> Torment you get thrown at you in Hell... My DSFE ("* You are immune
> to unholy pain and torment.") wasn't pleased with that...

Yeah, but it's still awesome. Or at least I imagine it would be. I was
trying DSFi of Nemelex Xobeh over and over again, trying to get one with
torment resistance to do a collect-all-the-runes game. I finally got one
(with a mutation on level 10), and got killed by a hydra in the lair almost
immediately. That was probably about a month ago, and I think I've played
once since. But still... torment resistance. I bet it's spectacular, even
if it doesn't work in hell.

--
Jeremey
September 4, 2004 7:30:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Bah... R.I.P. Xob the DSMo. Feeling awfully good after clearing the Elven
Halls and then finding a vault stuffed full of goodies in the dungeon soon
after... heard a distant Zot and wondering idly what that could mean...
found out 5 minutes later! Died in the Abyss after being surrounded by a
whole bunch of demons and not being able to teleport or blink. Best
character yet, though!

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Xob the Sensei (Demonspawn)
(Level 18 Monk)

Play time: 14:51:01 Number of turns: 60232

Experience : 18/310703
Strength 12 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 20/21
Hit Points : -6/127 (dead) Magic Points : 25/29
AC : 17 Evasion : 17 Shield : 1
GP : 1710

You are in the Abyss.
You worship Yredelemnul.
Yredelemnul is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +6,+7 dagger of slicing
Armour
b - a +3 robe of positive energy (worn)
c - a +2 cloak (worn)
d - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
e - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
f - a -2 buckler (worn)
> Poked my head down into the Slime Pits at one point, met an acid blob, and
> promptly ran away... but not before getting much of my armour eaten away.
> Found a nice pair of boots a few minutes later, though.

Magical devices
A - a wand of fireball (6)
D - a wand of digging (13)
F - a wand of fireball (6)
H - a wand of magic darts (11)
P - a wand of polymorph other (11)
Q - a wand of disintegration (5)
Comestibles
g - a royal jelly
B - 3 honeycombs
Scrolls
j - 3 scrolls of teleportation
q - a scroll of recharging
s - a scroll of blinking
y - a scroll of fear
I - 2 scrolls of remove curse
N - a scroll of detect curse
Jewellery
h - a ring of sustenance (right hand)
i - an amulet of clarity
k - a ring of ice
m - a ring of poison resistance
o - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
p - the ring of Fun
This ring increases its wearer's resistance to hostile enchantments.
It makes you much less stealthy.
It lets you turn invisible.

r - an amulet of warding
t - a +4,+4 ring of slaying
z - the amulet of Op Borupi (around neck)
This amulet protects some of the possessions of its wearer from outright
destruction, but not infallibly so.
It protects you from poison.

J - a ring of see invisible
M - an amulet of the gourmand
S - a +5,+4 ring of slaying
> Was normally wearing the two rings of slaying; when I fell into the Abyss
> I was planning on doing more running than fighting, and so I swapped them
> for others.

Potions
l - 6 potions of healing
n - 2 potions of restore abilities
u - 2 potions of might
C - 2 potions of levitation
K - a potion of speed
V - a potion of heal wounds
Magical staves
v - a staff of fire
w - a staff of conjuration
x - a rod of destruction
L - a staff of power
O - a staff of poison
R - a staff of channeling
> Picked all these up in the Halls, hadn't ID'd any of them.

Miscellaneous
E - a serpentine rune of Zot
G - a decaying rune of Zot
> Never got a rune before... got 2 this game. Getting there. :) 


You have 10 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 12 Fighting
+ Level 14 Dodging
- Level 3 Stealth
- Level 3 Stabbing
+ Level 19 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 6 Spellcasting
- Level 6 Conjurations
- Level 3 Translocations
+ Level 6 Transmigration
+ Level 7 Fire Magic
- Level 2 Earth Magic
+ Level 3 Invocations
+ Level 7 Evocations


You have 15 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Blade Hands Transmigration Fair 5
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Great 2
c - Blink Translocation Very Good 2
q - Magic Dart Conjuration Great 1
s - Spider Form Poison/Transmigration Very Good 3
w - Sandblast Earth/Transmigration Great 1

Mutations & Other Weirdness
You have tough skin (AC +1).
Your mind is acute (Int +1).
You are partially covered in thick black scales (AC + 3, dex - 1).
You digest meat inefficiently.
You have a slow metabolism.
* You can control translocations.
* You have a pair of large horns on your head.
You are frail (-10 percent hp).
* You can control demons.
* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.
You are partially covered in knobbly red scales (AC + 2).
> Did way more mutating this game than ever before, too. Looking at this, I
> should have tried going to Pandemonium (as previously suggested) when my
> Blink spell and my scrolls of blinking didn't work. Oh well.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 8:48:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> screeched:
> "Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote

> [torment resistance]
>> Except it doesn't work properly. It doesn't make you immune to
>> the Torment you get thrown at you in Hell... My DSFE ("* You are
>> immune to unholy pain and torment.") wasn't pleased with that...

> Yeah, but it's still awesome. Or at least I imagine it would be.
> I was trying DSFi of Nemelex Xobeh over and over again, trying
> to get one with torment resistance to do a collect-all-the-runes
> game.

Why Fighter? A spellcaster would be better off trying that, I think.

> I finally got one (with a mutation on level 10), and got killed by
> a hydra in the lair almost immediately.

Ouch.

> That was probably about a month ago, and I think I've played once
> since.

I dug out my HOPr and played some more. Killed Boris (he said he'll
come back, I'd welcome the Exp when he does), and Wayne (who used a
wand that made him look uncertain, so I guess I've finally got a
wand of teleportation). :)  And I found a ring of cold resistance,
(unidentified in a shop, but I had some cash and identify scrolls),
so I changed my frail artifact armour for something with better AC
(and magic resistance, the best choice of those I've got; the
Roasting Nifty Gardener isn't exactly forthcoming with good armour
or jewelery)..

> But still... torment resistance. I bet it's spectacular, even if
> it doesn't work in hell.

Where else would it be really useful, though? Tomb, maybe, but I
really don't think it's quite as spectacular as you think it is.

--
Tina the Smasher - the Champion of the Ruling National Gal
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 9:28:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_281d94b9@fidonet.org...
> Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> screeched:

> > Yeah, but it's still awesome. Or at least I imagine it would be.
> > I was trying DSFi of Nemelex Xobeh over and over again, trying
> > to get one with torment resistance to do a collect-all-the-runes
> > game.
>
> Why Fighter? A spellcaster would be better off trying that, I think.

Because I was being Nemelexites -- I figure NX offers the biggest payoff
late in the game (stats in the 40s, and god knows how many acquirements
from decks of power and wonder). So I needed to train Evocations, which
meant getting rods, and it just wasn't worth it to learn all the spells
early. I had a couple games that went far (cleared Hell once, and died in
Pandemonium. Another died in the Tomb, really stupidly), and started
learning spells then, just to get Controlled Blink and other useful stuff.

> > But still... torment resistance. I bet it's spectacular, even if
> > it doesn't work in hell.
>
> Where else would it be really useful, though? Tomb, maybe, but I
> really don't think it's quite as spectacular as you think it is.

Pandemonium, mostly, and also the Abyss. Getting tormented 6 times in a
row and then punched by a ufebutus is a great way to make a very
embarassing high score entry.

--
Jeremey
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 2:54:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> roared:
> "Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote
>> Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> screeched:

>>> Yeah, but it's still awesome. Or at least I imagine it would
>>> be. I was trying DSFi of Nemelex Xobeh over and over again,
>>> trying to get one with torment resistance to do a collect-all
>>> -the-runes game.
>>
>> Why Fighter? A spellcaster would be better off trying that, I
>> think.

> Because I was being Nemelexites -- I figure NX offers the biggest
> payoff late in the game (stats in the 40s, and god knows how many
> acquirements from decks of power and wonder).

That doesn't sound all that reliable a plan to me. Good spells can
make up for bad stats, too, and aquirement rarely gives you what you
need. (Besides, decks of wonder will just throw you into Pandemonium
before you have the awsome stats. <g>)

> So I needed to train Evocations, which meant getting rods, and it
> just wasn't worth it to learn all the spells early.

I don't understand this thing about learnng all the spells early...

> I had a couple games that went far (cleared Hell once, and died in
> Pandemonium. Another died in the Tomb, really stupidly), and
> started learning spells then, just to get Controlled Blink and
> other useful stuff.

The higher level spells are a lot more impressive, though.

(Even with some of them, I'm still scared of Pandemonium, which is
why my SEEE is still parked...)

>>> But still... torment resistance. I bet it's spectacular, even
>>> if it doesn't work in hell.
>>
>> Where else would it be really useful, though? Tomb, maybe, but I
>> really don't think it's quite as spectacular as you think it is.

> Pandemonium, mostly, and also the Abyss. Getting tormented 6
> times in a row and then punched by a ufebutus is a great way to
> make a very embarassing high score entry.

But who torments you? When they can't see you (hiding in the Tomb of
D., which is much easier to get than hoping for a random mutation),
the only place where you'll get tormented is Hell. When you then
have something else to fight the buggers, you can just sit out the
battle and read your newspaper or something. :)  (Trust me, it's fun.
The main thing that's keeping me from trying it out in Pandemonium
is food, or rather whether I'll find enough, as well as other stuff
that I like to be able to refill from my stash, which isn't
available in Pandemonium, and I don't know how much and what exactly
to take along.)

--
Tina the Spear-Bearer - an Elder of the Reversely National Gentry
September 6, 2004 3:54:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rob Curtis .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>>> Strength 11 Dexterity 15 Intelligence 19
> I wonder where you've put your stats increases - Int I suppose?
> Indeed... partly reflex, partly wanting to get better at casting Blink. I
> suppose now it might be better to feed them into Str or Dex - how do those
> affect unarmed combat?

Basically Str increases damage and Dex increases probability of hitting,
but there is a huge skills effect also. Anyway IMO you have enough
intelligence now.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 7:38:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <qQ4_c.10833$Y94.7895@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>,
Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Yeah, but it's still awesome. Or at least I imagine it would be. I was
>trying DSFi of Nemelex Xobeh over and over again, trying to get one with
>torment resistance to do a collect-all-the-runes game.

Why not try a ghoul instead? Built-in Torment resistance from day one...
Bob the Ghoul is currently happily cruising around Pandemonium
collecting artifacts (22 artifact rings so far and counting) and
slaughtering '&'s. Ghouls are a pain to start, but munchkin in the late
game.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 7:43:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <eFa_c.92023$X12.39876@edtnps84>,
Rob <robfromcanada@yahoo.com> wrote:
> j - 3 scrolls of teleportation
> K - a potion of speed
>* You can travel to (but not from) Pandemonium at will.

All of these are 'get out of Abyss free' cards. Well, 'get out of
trouble in the Abyss free', anyway. As you have noted, Blink doesn't
work. Teleport does, though, as does hasting yourself and Running Away.
You have to be very *very* tough to survive for long in the Abyss if you
stand and fight: for a weaker character you should run. The only
critters that you should stop to fight are those that are so much
stronger than you are that you'll take too much damage running (gray
snake zombies come to mind). Just let everything else follow behind and
get a free swing every now and again: you'll survive longer. If the
crowd gets too large, find a narrow gap to squeeze through and leave
most of them behind.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/
September 6, 2004 8:49:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mark Mackey .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> All of these are 'get out of Abyss free' cards. Well, 'get out of
> trouble in the Abyss free', anyway. As you have noted, Blink doesn't
> work. Teleport does, though, as does hasting yourself and Running Away.
> You have to be very *very* tough to survive for long in the Abyss if you
> stand and fight: for a weaker character you should run. The only
> critters that you should stop to fight are those that are so much
> stronger than you are that you'll take too much damage running (gray
> snake zombies come to mind). Just let everything else follow behind and
> get a free swing every now and again: you'll survive longer. If the
> crowd gets too large, find a narrow gap to squeeze through and leave
> most of them behind.

I'd add levitation as very useful thing in Abyss (no need to worry about
lava).

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.iconrate.net
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 9:31:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_281da0a4@fidonet.org...
> Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> roared:

> > So I needed to train Evocations, which meant getting rods, and it
> > just wasn't worth it to learn all the spells early.
>
> I don't understand this thing about learnng all the spells early...

I think I was going to relate an anecdote, thought better of it, and then
edited badly without reading what I'd written. Anyway, it's easier to get
rods without having spell skills was my point, I think.

> > I had a couple games that went far (cleared Hell once, and died in
> > Pandemonium. Another died in the Tomb, really stupidly), and
> > started learning spells then, just to get Controlled Blink and
> > other useful stuff.
>
> The higher level spells are a lot more impressive, though.
>
> (Even with some of them, I'm still scared of Pandemonium, which is
> why my SEEE is still parked...)

I don't know that I've ever taken a spellcaster into Pandemonium. I'd
generally disagree with the conventional wisdom that spellcasters are
easier in the late game than fighters, though. For pure killing power,
only Fire/Ice Storm can match Bolt of Inaccuracy, which you can only get
from rods, and which you can cast four times for every Storm. Plus, I
killed myself on the bottom of the Vaults with a mistargeted Fire Storm, so
I'm gun-shy. The Tomb and summoning seems like it'd work pretty well, and
when I've used it it's been sucessful, but it's kinda boring, keeping track
of your summoned stuff is a PITA, and if you happen to get teleportitis
your entire strategy flies out the window.

> That doesn't sound all that reliable a plan to me. Good spells can
> make up for bad stats, too, and aquirement rarely gives you what you
> need. (Besides, decks of wonder will just throw you into Pandemonium
> before you have the awsome stats. <g>)

If you get enough acquirements, you'll find stuff that you want or need.
If you only use your decks of wonder in Labyrinths, you can't get banished
to the Abyss or Pandemonium, so you need to stash your decks of wonder and
use them all at once. (If there's no Labyrinth generated, I guess you've
got about a 1 in 3 chance of getting sent to a Labyrinth before Pandemonium
or the Abyss, but if you end up in one of the bad places you can just keep
drawing cards until you go back to the dungeon.)

I've never got a Shining One or Zin worshipper to the late game, so maybe
they're better for Pandemonium, although their powers don't look that
spectacular. Elyvilon is ok, but you can't get do the big healings too
many times because of piety, which is hard to raise.

And if you've got a little time to prepare for a battle, you can use decks
of tricks to get yourself most of the powers Trog or Okawaru would give
you. The problem with NX is that he's not much help for most of the game,
but I don't think it's even close late.

> But who torments you? When they can't see you (hiding in the Tomb of
> D., which is much easier to get than hoping for a random mutation),


> the only place where you'll get tormented is Hell. When you then
> have something else to fight the buggers, you can just sit out the
> battle and read your newspaper or something. :)  (Trust me, it's fun.
> The main thing that's keeping me from trying it out in Pandemonium
> is food, or rather whether I'll find enough, as well as other stuff
> that I like to be able to refill from my stash, which isn't
> available in Pandemonium, and I don't know how much and what exactly
> to take along.)

The item generation there seems to be the same as you'd find in the main
dungeon (going by experience, not source). I've never had a problem
staying fed (with fighters, though, not spellcasters). I imagine a troll
or ghoul would be a problem, since there aren't any corpses.

--
Jeremey
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 9:57:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mark Mackey <markm@chiark.greenend.org.uk> screamed:
> Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Yeah, but it's still awesome. Or at least I imagine it would
>> be. I was trying DSFi of Nemelex Xobeh over and over again,
>> trying to get one with torment resistance to do a
>> collect-all-the-runes game.

> Why not try a ghoul instead? Built-in Torment resistance from day
> one... Bob the Ghoul is currently happily cruising around
> Pandemonium collecting artifacts (22 artifact rings so far and
> counting) and slaughtering '&'s. Ghouls are a pain to start, but
> munchkin in the late game.

How do you keep them alife, healthy and well fed?

--
Tina the Grand Master - an Elder of the Reversely Normal Gnome
Anonymous
September 8, 2004 11:57:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_282dbbd7@fidonet.org>,
Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>How do you keep them alife, healthy and well fed?

The usual way: convert every corpse into chunks and carry them round
until rotten. Don't worry too much about the rotting as such: rotten
chunks are first and foremost healing potion substitutes. You need a
reasonable memory to remember how old your chunks are, though, so that
too many don't rot away. It also doesn't pay to be too cautious with
ghouls: wandering endlessly round dungeon level 1/2 will just leave you
rotten and hungry. On level 3 and below you can pick up orcs and gnolls
and the like, which are good eating (lure them up stairs, kill, dissect,
then either (a) wait until the chinks rot and eat if badly injured, or
(b) go back down and fetch another orc-snack if not.

I generally ditch the short sword and go Unarmed: life's a bit harder on
the first couple of levels but easier thereafter IME.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/
Anonymous
September 9, 2004 2:44:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mark Mackey <markm@chiark.greenend.org.uk> whined:
> Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> How do you keep them alife, healthy and well fed?

> The usual way: convert every corpse into chunks and carry them
> round until rotten. Don't worry too much about the rotting as
> such: rotten chunks are first and foremost healing potion
> substitutes.

Where do you get them in Pandemonium? (The question refered to how
you keep them well there, not in the normal dungeon, which seems
what you're refering to here.)

> You need a reasonable memory to remember how old your chunks are,
> though, so that too many don't rot away. [...]

How long does it take for a chunk to rot away?

--
Tina the Diviner - a High Priest of the Romping Negotiating Grievance
Anonymous
September 10, 2004 6:27:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_283deb22@fidonet.org>,
Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>Where do you get them in Pandemonium? (The question refered to how
>you keep them well there, not in the normal dungeon, which seems
>what you're refering to here.)

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. There's plenty of food in Pandemonium, but
it's patchy. Different levels in Pandemonium seem to have different
'item-generation probabilities': some are virtually empty, while on
others every room contain 6 or 7 items. Detect Items is your friend:
fully explore the item-rich levels and each one will net you half a
dozen rations. So long as you have a reasonable stash of food with you
for a buffer you shouldn't have a problem. Bob the ghoul went in with 5
royal jellies and 6 meat rations, and after lots and lots of
demon-bashing had to drop some of his 12 meat rations because of the
weight. The only time he had trouble with food was when he was dumping
xp into spell skills: casting lots of 4th-level spells (with a low Int)
and then resting to get mana back uses huge amounts of food.

As a safety net, take a ring of sustenance with you and if you have 3
rations or less left put it on and start looking for a way out.

By the time you are high enough level that you're capable of surviving
in Pandemonium you will have enough hp that rotting just is ignorable. I
think at one stage I was 40 or so hp down, but I then noticed that I'd
picked up 25 healing potions in the meantime which fixed most of that
:) .

>How long does it take for a chunk to rot away?

<------------------------------>
this long

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/
Anonymous
September 10, 2004 10:54:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_284e1166@fidonet.org...
> Mark Mackey <markm@chiark.greenend.org.uk> bellowed:
> > Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
> Question: Which kinds of magic mapping were it again that don't work
> in Pandemonium? (I remember one of my characters having the ability
> from two sources - mutation and item I think - and only one of them
> worked. What about the spell? What about a crystal ball of seeing?)

Artifact items work (and also in the Abyss and Labyrinths). Mutation I'm pretty
sure doesn't. Scrolls definitely work. Spell doesn't. Don't know about the
crystal ball.

> What resistances should I have, and what of all this junk should I
> drag with me?

The levels seem to kinda have themes -- like, some of them will be full of
Balrogs and hellions and Pit Fiends and Sun Demons, and some of them will have
Ice Fiends and Ice Devils. And then there are some that are more of a grab bag.
Unless you can make an outfit that gives you a lot of different resistances all
at once, it'd probably be best to carry a couple changes of clothes, and switch
for fire or ice or whatever as needed.

Take food and lotsa healing. I guess the staff of energy. I haven'tplayed much
as a summoner, so I can't give much advice there.

Is it wiser to not switch to Vehumet for now? (Would
> hate to have Sif Muna remove a much needed spell.)

You've got enough food and a staff of energy, you could probably sit in the
temple until she's mollified (10,000 spell-levels cast, IIRC?)

--
Jeremey
Anonymous
September 11, 2004 9:22:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dalton Wudrich wrote:
> robfromcanada@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message news:<894580d0.0409010742.66ad7e02@posting.google.com>...

<snip>

> Your spells are the biggest question. Even if you only learn 3-4
> spells you need to train 4-5 skills. All of those points are points
> NOT going into Unarmed Combat, Fighting & Dodge. Learning Throw Flame
> instead of using a Bow is ok, and Blink is VERY usefull, but learning
> these skills will slow down your overall progress. I would recommed
> training Blink until it is 'Good' and learning fire bolt until it is
> also 'Good' then turn off your magic skills.

You'll also want confusing touch as a monk. Since it's unresistable,
and the touch is easier to do than a normal attack.

Graeme Dice
--
"Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist.
Children already know that Dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children
the dragons can be killed."
-- G K Chesterson
!