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[Crawl] Suggestion

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Anonymous
August 31, 2004 10:43:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Hiho

Following Suggestion for Future Versions of Crawl:

One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From Living
Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.

greets....


--
www.tshq.de ---- German Ressource for Tholian Strategies

More about : crawl suggestion

Anonymous
September 4, 2004 8:03:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Andreas Huck <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> croaked:

> Following Suggestion for Future Versions of Crawl:

Side-info: these are usually called YANIs; Yet Anoter Nifty/New
Idea.

> One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From
> Living Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.

Are you having food problems? (What happened to your mummy?)

Hmmm... Meat rations that actually last would need all sorts of
treatment and perhaps seasoning, no? Sounds more like a Nethack
thingy (where they've got tinning kits and ice boxes and stuff).

Maybe a spell? Or turn one of those useless misc items into
something that can do this.

Afair you can fry stuff in Adom to make it last somewhat (or maybe
I'm hallucinating again), maybe that'd not be too 'outer space' for
Crawl.

How about just using a flaming bladed weapon to make fried/burned
chunks, and freezing bladed weapons that make frozen chunks, that
both last twice the normal time (but maybe lose in nutrition)?

--
Tina the Skullbreaker - a Priest of the Roasting Numeric Glass
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 8:03:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>
> Are you having food problems? (What happened to your mummy?)
>
Oh my mummy still exist.... but i got bored to death in the snakepit
so i started some new chars to lighten it up a bit.... macroing is
sometimes somewhat boring to death....
[well i already 'dug' out the complete level of snakepit5 and created a
hallway with 'tomb' where the monsters can line up
to be slain/drained/kicked in the ass several cool looking ways. makes it
easyer to get all the stuff


here a snip of what to get in the snakepit:

Inventory:

Hand weapons

a - a +2,+2 vampiric glaive (weapon)

well. do i get the healthpoints drained or is there only an additional
draining ?

Armour

l - a +2 robepositive energy

[i think this is a good one. it prevents me from being drained... but i dont
think this is useful for me...]

m - a +1 roberesistance (worn)

[i think this is a good one. it protects from cold and from heat]
Related resources
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:30:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_281d9ab1@fidonet.org:

>> One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From
>> Living Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.

One of ADOM's classes (farmer) has the ability to make rations from
corpses. However, it would be handy to be able to make them from
*live* animals.

> Hmmm... Meat rations that actually last would need all sorts of
> treatment and perhaps seasoning, no? Sounds more like a Nethack
> thingy (where they've got tinning kits and ice boxes and stuff).
>
> Maybe a spell? Or turn one of those useless misc items into
> something that can do this.
>
> Afair you can fry stuff in Adom to make it last somewhat (or maybe
> I'm hallucinating again), maybe that'd not be too 'outer space' for
> Crawl.

Yes, you can cook corpses/meat in ADOM, but it needs the required skill
(or a sufficiently intense heat source).
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 2:06:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 16:03:00 GMT+1, Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall)
wrote:

>Andreas Huck <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> croaked:
>
>> Following Suggestion for Future Versions of Crawl:
>
>Side-info: these are usually called YANIs; Yet Anoter Nifty/New
>Idea.

Different groups use different terminology. Adomites write of RFEs
(Requests For Enhancement), while neither rgr.angband nor rgr.misc has
any standard form.

>Afair you can fry stuff in Adom to make it last somewhat (or maybe
>I'm hallucinating again), maybe that'd not be too 'outer space' for
>Crawl.

That's correct. Cooking skill is one method, but fire magic can also
cook an Adomic corpse.

>How about just using a flaming bladed weapon to make fried/burned
>chunks, and freezing bladed weapons that make frozen chunks, that
>both last twice the normal time (but maybe lose in nutrition)?

Now that's a clever idea, but then one should add poisoning your food
if you butcher with a venomous weapon. And distortion weapons would --
what? Make mutagenic chunks?

Richard Daniel Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 2:47:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Colin McCaughan <needle_ih8spammind@yahoo.co.uk> whined:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote

>>> One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From
>>> Living Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.

> One of ADOM's classes (farmer) has the ability to make rations
> from corpses. However, it would be handy to be able to make them
> from *live* animals.

That's Ultima 7 II, the spell of Vibrate will shake the meat out of
the cows and leaves them alive and looking no worse for it. <g>

Why would you want to do that in Crawl or Adom, though?

>> Afair you can fry stuff in Adom to make it last somewhat (or
>> maybe I'm hallucinating again), maybe that'd not be too 'outer
>> space' for Crawl.

> Yes, you can cook corpses/meat in ADOM, but it needs the required
> skill (or a sufficiently intense heat source).

Ah, nice. (Not hallucinating for once. :)  )

--
Tina the Crawler of Death - a High Priest of the Ruling Negotiating Grievance
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 3:18:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Andreas Huck <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> shouted:
> Tina Hall wrote:

Please add attributions (the stuff above) so people know who wrote
what.

>> Are you having food problems? (What happened to your mummy?)
>>
> Oh my mummy still exist.... but i got bored to death in the
> snakepit so i started some new chars to lighten it up a bit....
> macroing is sometimes somewhat boring to death....

Heh. Understandable.

> [well i already 'dug' out the complete level of snakepit5 and
> created a hallway with 'tomb' where the monsters can line up
> to be slain/drained/kicked in the ass several cool looking ways.
> makes it easyer to get all the stuff

With my SEEE I made little rooms around an up- and downstair each,
on the lower levels. :)  (Starting with a couple near the stairs to
the Vaults, I think.)

> a - a +2,+2 vampiric glaive (weapon)

> well. do i get the healthpoints drained or is there only an
> additional draining ?

I don't know whether it works for a mummy (which is undead, after
all), but normally it heals Hp when it drains a monster.

> l - a +2 robepositive energy

> [i think this is a good one. it prevents me from being drained...
> but i dont think this is useful for me...]

Normally it's a good thing, but as a mummy you already have the
maximum resistance (3 levels) of this. Here (from a spoiler 'Loonie'
posted a while ago, from his website, no idea about the adress, but
I at least now know where I got the spoiler):

[species relevant resistances]
Fire Cold Elec. Poison Neg.Energy
Mummy -1 +1 0 +1 +3

> m - a +1 roberesistance (worn)

> [i think this is a good one. it protects from cold and from heat]

Indeed, it's a rather nice robe.

--
Tina the Boxer - the Champion of the Red Nefarious Grief
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 7:55:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:
> Andreas Huck <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> shouted:

<snip>

>>well. do i get the healthpoints drained or is there only an
>>additional draining ?
>
>
> I don't know whether it works for a mummy (which is undead, after
> all), but normally it heals Hp when it drains a monster.

It also feeds you when you hit a monster, and speeds up your hunger rate
by a bit.

Graeme Dice
--
"Welcome aboard Southwest Flight XXX to YYY. To operate your
seatbelt, insert the metal tab into the buckle, and pull tight.
It works just like every other seatbelt and if you don't know how
to operate one, you probably shouldn't be out in public unsupervised.
In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will
descend from the ceiling. Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull
it over your face. If you have a small child traveling with you,
secure your mask before assisting with theirs. If you are traveling
with two small children, decide now which one you love more."
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 4:28:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> barked:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>> Andreas Huck <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> croaked:

>>> Following Suggestion for Future Versions of Crawl:
>>
>> Side-info: these are usually called YANIs; Yet Anoter Nifty/New
>> Idea.

> Different groups use different terminology. Adomites write of
> RFEs (Requests For Enhancement),

Adom isn't free source, though. With that single programmer, a
request might be better than just throwing around ideas... A YANI
for a free source game could be picked up and realized by anyone.

> while neither rgr.angband nor rgr.misc has any standard form.

Rgr.misc doesn't have a FAQ either, afaik. The abbreviation has
turned up before though, pointing it out does no harm, it's just
trying to be helpful. (The OP hasn't been here all that long, after
all...) It was only a 'btw, you might like to know this'.

>> How about just using a flaming bladed weapon to make
>> fried/burned chunks, and freezing bladed weapons that make
>> frozen chunks, that both last twice the normal time (but maybe
>> lose in nutrition)?

> Now that's a clever idea, but then one should add poisoning your
> food if you butcher with a venomous weapon.

Heh, good idea.

> And distortion weapons would -- what? Make mutagenic chunks?

Sounds good, but could be abused I think. Weapons of distortion seem
pretty popular, anyway, and if you're wielding one already, this is
like a free Alter Self spell. The only drawback is that you don't
get any normal food without pesky unwielding of the distortion
weapon. (Eating mutagenic chunks doesn't look like they give any
nutrition, or is it just very little?)

Instead it could just be a pest to use them to cut something up,
because they warp the space around each new chunk, so it could
appear anwhere on the level. Only a percentage of the result being a
mutagenic chunk could make this rather adventurous. (Well, they
could be tagged as 'glowing', I suppose, but that would be out of
character for Crawl.)

(I think a weapon of crushing should be able to make puree, at
least. If you're strong enough, you should be able to turn a yak
into chunks with a hammer, anyway. But I don't think this idea will
catch on. <g>)

Anyway, there are other brands that could have interesting effects,
here are some suggestions (I list them all for completeness). Since
it might be difficult to tell them all apart (and all you need for
that is a good memory), I'll add some suggested tags for the chunks
(though actually telling the player anything is out of character for
Crawl).

'Contaminated' means it might make you 'sick', not that it's rotten.

Flaming (fried)
Fries chunks so they last twice as long, at a cost of a quarter of
the nutrition (half if that's not enough).

Freezing (frozen):
Freezes chunks so they last twice as long, at a cost of a quarter of
the nutrition (half if that's not enough).

Holy wrath (pure or clean):
Exerts its wrath on any bacteria that might creep into the chunks;
uncontaminates every food and makes fresh chunks from rotten
corpses.

Electrocution (shocked):
Fries better than simply flaming, so they lasts twice as long as
'flamed' chunks, while costing only the same nutrition as frying.

Orc slaying (pure or clean):
Uncontaminates orcish (and orc-related; all the stuff it fights
better) chunks. (It slays all 'orc' specific bits in the food...)

Venom (poisoned):
Poisons chunks, no problem when you're poison resistant. (Same as
chunks from kobolds or bees.)

Protection (everlasting?):
Actually makes the food last forever.

Draining (none):
You get only half as many chunks as you'd otherwise get. (The food
shrivels as you cut it.)

Speed:
?

Crushing:
(That's blunt objects...)

Slicing (none):
Makes very neat chunks. <g> Random chance of getting an animal skin
out of it, with a very small chance (1%?) of it having up to a
quarter of the weapons plusses, could double the chance (or
guarantee) getting hides from monsters that might leave a hide
anyway (no plusses added to these).

Piercing:
Too bad you don't have a campfire handy, otherwise you could use it
to grill the food over open fire. ;)  (Not sure, is there any weapon
of piercing that _can_ cut chunks?)

Chopping (none):
As a butcher's weapon, you get 1.5 as many chunks as you'd otherwise
get.

Vampiric (stale):
Drains all nutrition (or at least half).

Disruption:
(Only maces and great maces that can have this.)

Pain (rotten):
Think stomachache, makes the chunks end up rotten straight away.
Would be a good thing for ghouls I guess.

Distortion (none/glowing):
Mutagenic chunks, or chunks where a quarter vanishes, 1/2 end up
anywhere on the level, and 1/8 of any of them turn out mutagenic.

Reaching:
?

Not sure whether the following should have any effect...

Orcish (none):
Slightly more chunks. (1 more chunk at a 5% chance, otherwise - if
you add 5% of the resulting chunks - you'd never see any effect...)

Elven (delicate):
Slightly less contaminated chunks. (Some 5% chance again.)

Dwarven (robust):
Lasts slightly longer. (+5% of the normal time)

--
Tina the Basher - the Favourite Plaything of the Romantic Nebulous Glory
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 4:28:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Well. Dont forget to what happens if u had bad targeting:

---- just a free guess
you start to dissect [whatever]
you fail.
you cut yourself in chunks of human meat



> Holy wrath (pure or clean):
> Exerts its wrath on any bacteria that might creep into the chunks;
> uncontaminates every food and makes fresh chunks from rotten
> corpses.
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 2:17:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:28:00 GMT+1, Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall)
wrote:

>R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> barked:
>> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>>> Andreas Huck <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> croaked:
>
>>>> Following Suggestion for Future Versions of Crawl:
>>>
>>> Side-info: these are usually called YANIs; Yet Anoter Nifty/New
>>> Idea.
>
>> Different groups use different terminology. Adomites write of
>> RFEs (Requests For Enhancement),
>
>Adom isn't free source, though. With that single programmer, a
>request might be better than just throwing around ideas... A YANI
>for a free source game could be picked up and realized by anyone.

Well, now it is pretty clear ADOM is completely dead and TB is only
working on JADE, so RFEs for ADOM are a waste of time. ADOM is dead.

>> while neither rgr.angband nor rgr.misc has any standard form.
>
>Rgr.misc doesn't have a FAQ either, afaik. The abbreviation has
>turned up before though, pointing it out does no harm, it's just
>trying to be helpful. (The OP hasn't been here all that long, after
>all...) It was only a 'btw, you might like to know this'.

"Suggestion" doesn't take much longer to type and is clearer. I'd have
to think about YANI.

>Holy wrath (pure or clean):
>Exerts its wrath on any bacteria that might creep into the chunks;
>uncontaminates every food and makes fresh chunks from rotten
>corpses.

Okay, I can buy into that. Maybe it should create fewer chunks from
"contaminated" corpses, burning away the "bad" ones? Useful, but less
powerful and holy wrath is very good already.

>Orc slaying (pure or clean):
>Uncontaminates orcish (and orc-related; all the stuff it fights
>better) chunks. (It slays all 'orc' specific bits in the food...)

I was thinking it might totally hack up orcs, leaving no useful chunks
(you can't really carry a puree). Other than orcs, does it actually
slay anything else?

>Protection (everlasting?):
>Actually makes the food last forever.

Too powerful as well as not having a logical connection to deflecting
blows.

>Draining (none):
>You get only half as many chunks as you'd otherwise get. (The food
>shrivels as you cut it.)

Okay.

>Speed:
>?

Slicing chunks takes half the time.

>Slicing (none):
>Makes very neat chunks. <g> Random chance of getting an animal skin
>out of it, with a very small chance (1%?) of it having up to a
>quarter of the weapons plusses, could double the chance (or
>guarantee) getting hides from monsters that might leave a hide
>anyway (no plusses added to these).

Okay, I suppose that's possible (for animal corpses only). I think it
should have a chance of providing an extra chunk (more efficient
butchering).

>Chopping (none):
>As a butcher's weapon, you get 1.5 as many chunks as you'd otherwise
>get.

Okay, you thought of that for chopping, but it makes sense to me for
slicing as well (especially as its the same brand with just a
different name displayed).

>Vampiric (stale):
>Drains all nutrition (or at least half).

But gives you a quarter of that nutrition immediately upon cutting the
chunks.

>Pain (rotten):
>Think stomachache, makes the chunks end up rotten straight away.
>Would be a good thing for ghouls I guess.

I like this idea for the usefulness to ghouls.

>Reaching:
>?

Cut up corpses from a distance?

>Not sure whether the following should have any effect...

Racial weapons, no, I wouldn't think so. That's just different
manufacturing and design; you need magic to see an effect on the level
of carving meat.

Richard Daniel Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 9:43:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Andreas Huck" <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:chbv24$tpj$06$1@news.t-online.com...
> Hiho
>
> Following Suggestion for Future Versions of Crawl:
>
> One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From Living
> Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.

I'm just replying generally to the whole thread, I guess, but I think
messing with the food system is a bad idea. Starvation has never really
been a problem for me, and adding a cooking skill or having weapon brands
do different things to corpses just seems like it'd unnecessarily
complicate things.

The problem with putting these things in is that 1) you'd need to balance
things, somehow: if you can make meat rations from yaks, presumably you'd
have to either make chunks less nutritive, or deal with the fact that now
you're going to need to train your cooking skill, which would I can't
imagine would be much fun. And 2) if you put stuff like these in, people
are going to want to take advantage of them, which means that the late game
is probably going to involve a lot of searching for daggers of distortion
to make mutagenic chunks. Or you'll need 6 weapons to feed yourself, so
you can make corpses from Orcs and eat necrophages safely, etc.

A better idea might just be a "Knife of Butchering" as a very rare brand
only on knives (or maybe an artifact?) that could turn clean meat into
rations. If it's very rare, it wouldn't be unbalancing. Still, I don't
think it's necessary.

--
Jeremey
Anonymous
September 7, 2004 1:03:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> growled:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:

>> Adom isn't free source, though. With that single programmer, a
>> request might be better than just throwing around ideas... A
>> YANI for a free source game could be picked up and realized by
>> anyone.

> Well, now it is pretty clear ADOM is completely dead and TB is
> only working on JADE, so RFEs for ADOM are a waste of time. ADOM
> is dead.

What's JADE? And why doesn't he simply release the source if he's no
longer interested?

>> Holy wrath (pure or clean): Exerts its wrath on any bacteria that
>> might creep into the chunks; uncontaminates every food and makes
>> fresh chunks from rotten corpses.

> Okay, I can buy into that. Maybe it should create fewer chunks
> from "contaminated" corpses, burning away the "bad" ones?

Makes sense.

>> Orc slaying (pure or clean):
>> Uncontaminates orcish (and orc-related; all the stuff it fights
>> better) chunks. (It slays all 'orc' specific bits in the
>> food...)

> I was thinking it might totally hack up orcs, leaving no useful
> chunks (you can't really carry a puree).

<g>
It's not all that useful a brand, though, so a useful trait that
works well with its normal trait seems sensible. Normally I'd not
consider dragging this thing around, not even to fight orcs, because
whatever my main weapon is, is more all-around useful...

> Other than orcs, does it actually slay anything else?

I got the impression (from the description in the game, I think)
that it goes for ogre and similar, too.

>> Protection (everlasting?): Actually makes the food last forever.

> Too powerful as well as not having a logical connection to
> deflecting blows.

It's got a logical connection to 'protection'. I seem to be the only
one who occasionally drags a weapon of protection around for
emergencies. People say '+5 AC does not matter much, better have a
mighty punch', but with this you'd have an extra reason...

>> Speed:
>> ?

> Slicing chunks takes half the time.

I thought of something else: The chunks rot twice as fast as
normally. :)  (Can't have all good ones, that'd be unbalancing.)

>> Slicing (none):
>> Makes very neat chunks. <g> Random chance of getting an animal
>> skin out of it, with a very small chance (1%?) of it having up
>> to a quarter of the weapons plusses, could double the chance (or
>> guarantee) getting hides from monsters that might leave a hide
>> anyway (no plusses added to these).

> Okay, I suppose that's possible (for animal corpses only).

Human skins might be fun for the less nice character types. <g>

> I think it should have a chance of providing an extra chunk (more
> efficient butchering).

Maybe the blade is more concerned with making neat chunks than
efficient chunks. :) 

If you have a dead pig and would have to cut up a bunch of identical
looking 'Schnitzel' (whatever _do_ you call them in English?), you'd
actually lose good meat.

>> Chopping (none):
>> As a butcher's weapon, you get 1.5 as many chunks as you'd
>> otherwise get.

> Okay, you thought of that for chopping, but it makes sense to me
> for slicing as well (especially as its the same brand with just a
> different name displayed).

I like variety. :) 

>> Vampiric (stale):
>> Drains all nutrition (or at least half).

> But gives you a quarter of that nutrition immediately upon
> cutting the chunks.

Makes sense. I think less would be better, though. Vampiric weapons
are already quite nice.

>> Reaching:
>> ?

> Cut up corpses from a distance?

Makes sense, but wouldn't that be too complicated? And where's the
point? Unless you have that Apportation spell, but I still fail to
see the advantage over just walking to it; if there's monsters
around they won't sit still while you cut up the meat.

Reaching could be interpreted as stretching, but I don't know what
effect that could produce that something else doesn't already.

>> Not sure whether the following should have any effect...

> Racial weapons, no, I wouldn't think so. That's just different
> manufacturing and design; you need magic to see an effect on the
> level of carving meat.

Right.

--
Tina the Grand Master - a High Priest of the Remotely Napping Ghost
Anonymous
September 7, 2004 4:25:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> growled:
>> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>
>>> Adom isn't free source, though. With that single programmer, a
>>> request might be better than just throwing around ideas... A
>>> YANI for a free source game could be picked up and realized by
>>> anyone.
>
>> Well, now it is pretty clear ADOM is completely dead and TB is
>> only working on JADE, so RFEs for ADOM are a waste of time. ADOM
>> is dead.
>
>What's JADE? And why doesn't he simply release the source if he's no
>longer interested?

JADE is the Java ADom Engine, I believe.

The second is one of those questions that has been beaten into a thin
red paste on rgr.adom. Basically: Thomas does not want ADOM variants to
exist. At least one person has said that if the source is released,
they will release a variant, regardless of any restrictive licences
Thomas places on it. Hence, Thomas will not release the source code to
ADOM.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
Anonymous
September 9, 2004 9:59:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Jeremey Wilson" <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Uk1%c.685$o76.290@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>...
> "Andreas Huck" <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:chbv24$tpj$06$1@news.t-online.com...

> A better idea might just be a "Knife of Butchering" as a very rare brand
> only on knives (or maybe an artifact?) that could turn clean meat into
> rations. If it's very rare, it wouldn't be unbalancing. Still, I don't
> think it's necessary.

How 'bout having weapons of Electrocution cook food for you. i.e more
nutruious and lasts longer.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 4:09:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Cyberdave <det14us@yahoo.com> wrote:
>How 'bout having weapons of Electrocution cook food for you. i.e more
>nutruious and lasts longer.

[I originally posted this to rgrn, but it bears repetition]

I think the idea of cooking as a YANI is best handled with an extract from
Ada Lovelace's correspondence;

"Charles, I am much taken with your idea for a diverfion utilifing the
Difference Engine. I am sure that the challenges you outline - strange
monfters and deadly traps alike - will provide the operator with many
hours of harmless amufement. However, if I might offer one small
suggeftion, I feel the experience could be greatly enchanced if the
operator's alter-ego could prepare tafty repafts with the aid of fire or
flame and simple cooking implements such as grace any kitchen in England.

I myfelf propofe a similar diverfion where the operator is challenged to
guide a difc or spherelike being through a labyrinth confuming small dots
while purfued by malicious ghofts [...] "
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:58:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> roared:
> Cyberdave <det14us@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> How 'bout having weapons of Electrocution cook food for you. i.e
>> more nutruious and lasts longer.

> [I originally posted this to rgrn, but it bears repetition]

> I think the idea of cooking as a YANI is best handled with an
> extract from Ada Lovelace's correspondence;

<snip obscure and hard to read text>

What do you actually mean to say with it, though?

--
Tina the Avatar - the Champion of the Rampant Neon Grief
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:18:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc,rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I'm always for more reality;
[YANI]
in reality, "food poisoning" may be due to active bacteria due to
inadequately cooked food, rarely, heat-resistant bacterial spores, or
heat stable toxin formed by active bacteria before cooking even
though the bacteria die in cooking,( or, of course heat resistant
toxins naturally found in the food while living),, (for you nethackers
with your home tinning kits, botulinum toxin, great for cosmetic
!oparalysis, btw, is broken down by cooking, but C. botulinum only
grows anaerobically)

cooking is a function to sterilize food and possibly eliminate toxins;
freezing or preserving keeps it sterilized, but do little to eliminate
existing toxin in food, and are less effective at killing bacteria
than heat. freezing requires a thawing period before it can be eaten
(a period of resumed but reduced growth).

so; a cooking skill would help one to treat foods in these ways to
prevent food poisoning,butchering corpses to remove existing toxicity
(venom glands in scorpion's tail, for example), and recognizing the
edibility of foods.

Here's a model for food:
a food/corpse has a chance per turn (which increases with its age) to
become contaminated (and/or, with a smaller probability, poisoned, if
corpse isn't already poisonous/contaminated). butchering has a chance
to remove contamination, dependent on cooking skill and age of corpse,
but the age of the corpse can still recontaminate it next turn,per the
previous statement. cooking may also remove contamination/poisoning,
dependent on skill, AND reduces the chance the meat will be
recontaminated (effectively reducing meat's age, dependent on skill).
however, cooking may also burn the food (it's useless, the item is
removed from game), and can only be done once (cooked switch is set).
freezing/preserving decrease the rate food ages dependent on cooking
skill, and can reduce age one time per item, again, dependent on
cooking skill. However, frozen food thaws over time, and must thaw
before eating (for most characters,except say, in ice form),
preservation is permanent, but preservatives are rare (salt deposits
in rocks, herbs from shops or cooking fires?)


however, cooking generally requires a heat source, fire in an enclosed
space is risky (asphyxiation, smoke in an already dim environment) and
without magic, requires a fuel source (clubs?) and an ignition source.
smell of cooking food can attract unwanted guests, smoke can attract
intelligent creatures.
smell of rotting food is more likely to attract animals however.

firewood is rare however, as it must be imported from the surface.
there are other reasons wood might be present in the dungeon however;


I'd like to see more scenery in my roguelikes, which could include
wooden items. Assuming these dungeons are part natural caves, part
artificial construction by different inhabitants over hundreds
(thousands?) of years, there might be : stone or wooden columns or
tunnel supports (esp. in mines) with risk of local cave-in if
disturbed (possibile scenarios: digging wands, pickaxes or kicking in
nethack, you or large creature snatching the column as a large club or
for firewood, burning the column if wood, heating or freezing if
stone, or Lee's rapid deconstruction in crawl, ). also doors could
make for firewood, if wooden.
cave-in's would be proportional in effect to the amount of open area
around, not the usual nethack cave in during a crashed game. like a
previous poster, i agree that mining a tunnel and safely supporting it
are probably too time intensive for a roguelike action game, and so i
don't propose a mining skill (besides, what if you got too good at
mining and couldn't collapse the tunnel when you wanted too?)

other occasional scenery: functional rooms/areas : wells (for water)

maybe the occasional underground stream (in addition to the obligatory
pools currently found, and including deep and shallow points that can
be crossed, )

an rare wizard's library [wooden bookshelves, flammable books, maybe
an occasional spellbook, though even in these rare rooms, such a
valuable item would probably have been removed, unless the library is
still in active use], crypts,
dens (residences of subterranean inhabitants),
shops should normally occur only in well developed areas. who opens a
shop in a dungeon anyway?
Armories would have stored weapons, but locate only in inhabited
levels, and dungeons could have a few weapons, and locate in
inhabited or uninhabited levels, though uninhabited areas should
mostly already have been scavenged of most valuables. dungeons might
also have prisoners to free, (in NH, there are lockpicks)

most of all, these places should be DARK, without a light source or
infravision. the first level could have ambient light, the second
level might have light more likely near the upstairs, rooms in lower
levels could rarely have shafts to the surface to give some light
(incidentally, ventilation for cooking), and inhabited areas might
have torches (to use for cooking/ignition), as well as cooking fires
(even orcs gotta eat)

on the whole, wood is probably rare enough in uninhabited areas, and
inhabited areas would be guarded enough, wood should be heavy enough,
and cooking should be time intensive enough (step away to fight, food
burns...), that cooking wouldn't be too unbalanced.
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 7:59:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
>David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> roared:
>>Cyberdave <det14us@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>How 'bout having weapons of Electrocution cook food for you. i.e
>>>more nutruious and lasts longer.
>>[I originally posted this to rgrn, but it bears repetition]
>>I think the idea of cooking as a YANI is best handled with an
>>extract from Ada Lovelace's correspondence;
><snip obscure and hard to read text>
>What do you actually mean to say with it, though?

This shouldn't need explained, but "for God's sake stop suggesting cooking
as a new idea in roguelikes, people."

It achieves this through exaggeration, by implying that the idea is nearly
as old as the idea of the programmable computer.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 9:05:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc,rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm always for more reality;

Then you should shun roguelikes, since a big hole in the ground full of
physically impossible monsters that don't eat anything and loot just lying
around is highly unrealistic.

The argument from realism is preposterous nonsense.

>[YANI]

I see the Lovelace quote was too subtle.

COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 9:05:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc,rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"David Damerell" <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:rdw*ZlMvq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I'm always for more reality;
>
> Then you should shun roguelikes, since a big hole in the ground full of
> physically impossible monsters that don't eat anything and loot just lying
> around is highly unrealistic.

Somebody's never been to LA! Well, except for the loot. That's mostly behind
gates.

>
> COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.

Prostitution, you're thinking of. Though cooking's pretty old.

--
Jeremey
September 28, 2004 9:05:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc,rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <5ug6d.1271$Rf1.1234@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, Jeremey Wilson wrote:
>
> "David Damerell" <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:rdw*ZlMvq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

>> COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.
>
> Prostitution, you're thinking of. Though cooking's pretty old.

in terms of downstream niche construction, cooking is probably the
most evolutionarily important invention in hominid prehistory.

--
ru
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 1:48:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Jason Northrup" <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:

[cooking YANI]

Don't people mostly come to these games to get
_away_ from the world of cooking, cleaning, earning
a living and such? I know "The Sims" are making
someone rich putting all that stuff back into game
playing, but it seems inappropriate in a dungeon
crawl game.

xanthian.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 4:30:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc,rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell puts out:


> COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.

ADOM has cooking. Not very useful, it is almost the same as zap a wand of fire
on a corpse.

[]s
--
Chaos MasterĀ®, posting from Brazil.
"People told me I can't dress like a fairy.
I say, I'm in a rock band and I can do what the hell I want!"
-- Amy Lee

The Evanescen(t/ce) HP: http://marreka.no-ip.com
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 5:58:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>
> One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From Living
> Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.
>

Hmm i apologize for this suggestion. just treat it as it was never said.
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 1:32:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> buzzed:

> COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.

You do know that the 'N' in 'YANI' does not have to stand for 'new',
right?

--
Tina the Caller - a Believer of the Ruddy Noxious Gun
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 1:52:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kent Paul Dolan <xanthian@well.com> roared:

> [cooking YANI]

> Don't people mostly come to these games to get _away_ from the
> world of cooking, cleaning, earning a living and such?

I think the idea is not (mainly) to add realism but something that
makes a character's life a little better, or just add some
interesting fun/pasttime to the game, but preferably both.

Take Nethack, where you can do all sorts of weird stuff. Saddles for
example. Saddles are a real life thing, and your knight starts with
a saddled pony. Where it diverges from real life (apart from half
your knights getting killed when they actually try to mount the pony
on turn one) is that the same saddle-fits-all-even-jabberwocks can
later be tied to your shiny silver dragon, on which you can gallop
up to the Castle and play your favorite nymph a song, who might then
lower the drawbridge and chase out all the critics that don't quite
agree with your taste in music. ;) 

> I know "The Sims" are making someone rich putting all that stuff
> back into game playing,

Know next to nothing about them (and only know what they are because
I was bored in front of the TV the other day, and all European NBC
seems to broadcast is people sitting in front of some computer doing
stuff with them, or alternately other people laying/reading cards
for callers
  • , a true shame that, it's both in German, too, they
    should show some undubbed Merkian series instead). Can't say I'm
    impressed with what I saw there. Lousy graphic that just interferes
    with any game that might be hidden in it, again.

    > but it seems inappropriate in a dungeon crawl game.

    Oh, I'd not mind a proper house or something (but not like in
    Angband where you can't properly store stuff). I make myself quite
    at home in the Temple, too, with things spread out and piled into
    Bermuda piles almost like at home. <g>

  • Which had me stare in wonder and giggle. The first caller of
    that show sounded rather fake, too. A highlight was a lady that had
    'planet cards' "For the 10 planets." Eh, right.

    --
    Tina the Arsonist - the Favourite Plaything of the Roman Necromantic Glacier
    Anonymous
    September 30, 2004 9:44:58 PM

    Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
    >David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> buzzed:
    >>COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.
    >You do know that the 'N' in 'YANI' does not have to stand for 'new',
    >right?

    Any other expansion is a flagrant backronym.
    --
    David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
    Anonymous
    October 1, 2004 3:11:53 AM

    Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc,rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    "Jeremey Wilson" <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:5ug6d.1271$Rf1.1234@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com:

    >
    > "David Damerell" <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in
    > message news:rdw*ZlMvq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
    >> Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> >I'm always for more reality;
    <snip>
    >>
    >> COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.
    >
    > Prostitution, you're thinking of. Though cooking's pretty old.
    >
    Killing is older.


    --
    Kizutsuite 'ta ano hi kara
    Anonymous
    October 1, 2004 7:50:00 AM

    Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> roared:
    > Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
    >> David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> buzzed:

    >>> COOKING IS NOT A NEW IDEA. IT IS JUST ABOUT THE OLDEST IDEA.
    >> You do know that the 'N' in 'YANI' does not have to stand for
    >> 'new', right?

    > Any other expansion is a flagrant backronym.

    What, like Random Nethack God for RNG in rgrn? How could anyone ever
    commit such an atrocity!?

    --
    Tina the Bludgeoner - a Believer of the Reaping Normal Gale
    Anonymous
    October 3, 2004 8:53:00 AM

    Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Andreas Huck <blaaaaaa@t-online.de> whined:

    >> One should be able to create something like 'Meat Rations' From
    >> Living Things like 'Sheeps' 'Yaks' and whatever.

    > Hmm i apologize for this suggestion. just treat it as it was
    > never said.

    ;) 

    Too late. Usenet posts take on a life of their own, whatever happens
    to them isn't your fault, so don't worry about it. <g>

    --
    Tina the Twirler - a High Priest of the Roguelike Napping Goblin
    !