[Crawl] Strange Dungeon Layout

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Assuming there is always only one entrance from the main dungeon to the
Orcish Mines (Not sure though, just from experience. So far I've never
seen more than one), I wonder how I should reach the other parts of the
mines.
Look at this:

#####
##.#.##
#.....#
##...##
##....# ***
#....## **,**
#....# *,,,*
##..######## ****, *
#####....##.#^## **,**,*,
##.##..........@# ,,,,,,,
#...............## * ,,*,,,
##.##............# *,,,,,,
#####.....#.##.## **,,,,,
#.<.......#.### * ,,
##.##.##......## **,,,,
######........# *,,,,,
##..###.## **,,,,
#### ### *****

That's the first small area of the Orcish mines, as entered from DL8 and
after reading a scroll of magic mapping (there are more small "bubbles"
to the north). I cleared the whole bubble, removed all junk, and as you
can see, no other stairs or hidden doors.

Is there a natural way to reach the other parts? With 'natural' I mean
other than teleporting or digging?
Btw, is digging possible at all in the mines?

TIA
Rubinstein

 

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"Rubinstein" <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:cndmtr$6al$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> That's the first small area of the Orcish mines, as entered from DL8 and
> after reading a scroll of magic mapping (there are more small "bubbles"
> to the north). I cleared the whole bubble, removed all junk, and as you
> can see, no other stairs or hidden doors.

That happens a lot.

> Is there a natural way to reach the other parts? With 'natural' I mean
> other than teleporting or digging?

Go down to the Lair, lure a Boring Beetle back up after you, take it into the
mines, and then hurt it till it flees? Or summon Earth Elementals. Those are
the only other ways I can think of. If you teleport, there's a good chance that
there will be other up staircases on the first level. You can't enter the Mines
there, but you can exit. But unless you can control teleport or have a ring of
teleportation, it's probably not a good idea to mess around like that.

> Btw, is digging possible at all in the mines?

Yes.

--
Jeremey

 

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Jeremey Wilson wrote:
> "Rubinstein" <picommander@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:cndmtr$6al$00$1@news.t-online.com...
>
>> I cleared the whole bubble, removed all junk, and as you
>> can see, no other stairs or hidden doors.
>
> That happens a lot.

What a surprise, it's the first time it happened to me! And the mines
are my favourite graveyard (for my chars), so I thought I'm somewhat
comfortable with that place.
Doesn't mean much though, since almost /every/ game has some new
surprise for me. Oh, how I *love* this game!

Rubinstein

 

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Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> moaned:

[separate caves in the Orcish Mines]
> That's the first small area of the Orcish mines, as entered from
> DL8 and after reading a scroll of magic mapping (there are more
> small "bubbles" to the north). I cleared the whole bubble,
> removed all junk, and as you can see, no other stairs or hidden
> doors.

> Is there a natural way to reach the other parts? With 'natural' I
> mean other than teleporting or digging?

Then the answer is no.

That's assuming all sorts of different, not always obvious ways, of
'digging' and 'teleportation', as part of your condition.

What comes to mind concerning the different ways (Rot13 incase you
want to find out the more obscure things by yourself):

Digging: jnaq, fcryy, jnaq bs qvfvagrtengvba, jnaq bs enaqbz rssrpgf
(qvttvat/qvfvagrtengvba rssrpg), fcryy bs Fhzzba Ryrzragny
(fcryypnfgvat be ebq), fcryy bs Y.'f Encvq Qrpbafgehpgvba (rvgure
gung bar be Funggre unf n onq rssrpg ba abezny qhatrba jnyyf,
naljnl, znlor obgu) juvpu pna nyfb or pnfg ol fbzr zbafgref, fgbar
bs rnegu ryrzragnyf (= abaqrfpevcg fgbar), fbzr orrgyr (obevat
orrgyr?) rngvat vgf jnl guebhtu gur jnyyf.

Teleportation: jnaq, fcryy (juvpu pna nyfb or pnfg ol fbzr
zbafgref), evat, genc, zhgngvba, orvat uvg ol n jrncba bs qvfgbegvba
(gryrcbeg rssrpg), qrpxf bs gevpxf/cbjre (gryrcbeg/vafgnag gryrcbeg
rssrpg), naq nf n thrff (qba'g xabj jurgure vg'q ynaq lbh va
harkcyberq greevgbel) orvat pnfg vagb gur Nolff naq raqvat hc ba n
enaqbz hcfgnvef nsgre trggvat bhg ntnva (nqzvggrqyl abg gur zbfg
rssrpgvir jnl vs vg jbexf).

No doubt I forgot or don't know about some more ways.

> Btw, is digging possible at all in the mines?

Yes. No problem there.

--
Tina the Avatar - a High Priest of the Raw New Gentry

 

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Tina Hall wrote:

> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> moaned:
>
> [separate caves in the Orcish Mines]

Separate caves in the mines are nothing special, new for me were the
missing downstairs! If it's really that common, as Jeremey mentioned, I
must have been extremely lucky before. I always got *at least* one
downstairs on the first area, but most of the time more than one
(but usually the "bubbles" are also larger than this one).

> What comes to mind concerning the different ways (Rot13 incase you want
> to find out the more obscure things by yourself):

> [snip Rot13 block]

Some interesting advices here, some of them I didn't know yet, most of
them currently not available due to lack of equipment. I'm playing a
Merfolk Healer, who's just carefully starting to train some spellcasting
(very lousy yet). Actually I do have a wand of teleport, but there are
only a few charges left and tt's too precious right now (my main emergency
device).

I'm not in a hurry with the mines though, but I'm still w/o any source of
poison resistance. Nevertheless, I managed to clean a bee hive (+ the
Queen) on DL8, which was already somewhat hairy though. Thus I wouldn't
dare to enter other branches yet. For getting magic resistance for
example, I would have to swap my artifact armor against a +1 robe. Playing
as a fighting Healer that doesn't sound like a good idea. Orcs, Ogres
and Trolls (the latter 2 one by one of course) are no problem though.
Thus I thought, the mines would fit to my char quite well right now.

Btw, you suggested summoning. Elyvilon, though a really nice one
otherwise, is very picky with summoned monsters dying in combat. Meanwhile
I even ditch wands of enslavement after I lost complete healing support
with one of my recent Healers (I was naively zap-IDing one of my wands in
combat, that was the result).

But maybe it's better this way, I'm dying just too often in the mines... ;-)

Thx,
Rubinstein

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> I'm not in a hurry with the mines though, but I'm still w/o any source of
> poison resistance. Nevertheless, I managed to clean a bee hive (+ the
> Queen) on DL8, which was already somewhat hairy though. Thus I wouldn't
> dare to enter other branches yet.

i tend to do the lair before the mines; i find the individually tougher
monster in the lair easier to deal with than packs of orcs. and you can
clear a lot of it without poison resistance.

if you are still stuck for poison resistance and a) have an amulet of
clarity and b) have a method of killing hydras you can try the swamp,
where often a swamp dragon will be kind enough to donate you its skin



--
ru

 

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Tina Hall wrote:

> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> moaned:
>
> [separate caves in the Orcish Mines]
> [snip]

Tina, you mentioned (unRot13)

> Teleportation: ...
> decks of tricks/power (teleport/instant teleport effect)

Are the above cards the only Translocation cards? The reason I ask, I just
found a (yet unID'd) deck of cards. Some first tests provided several
kinds of translocations like blink and teleport.
Are these the cards you mentioned? Anyway, they should take me to the
other branches of the mines. What a lucky find!

I've never used cards before, so a couple of questions came up:

Are wielding and then envoking the only way to use cards?
Are there any costs for using decks of cards (energy, food, mana)?
Do the cards use up after a certain time?

Rubinstein

 

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ru wrote:

> Rubinstein wrote:
>> I'm not in a hurry with the mines though, but I'm still w/o any source of
>> poison resistance. Nevertheless, I managed to clean a bee hive (+ the
>> Queen) on DL8, which was already somewhat hairy though. Thus I wouldn't
>> dare to enter other branches yet.
>
> i tend to do the lair before the mines; i find the individually tougher
> monster in the lair easier to deal with than packs of orcs.

Usually I only fear packs of orcs in open areas (which the Orcish Mines
are, more or less). That's why I'm try to lure them upstairs, one by one,
or in smaller groups at least. This is only dangerous, if I'm immediately
completely surrounded and the place of the stairs above is not in a
hallway. In my certain case it can become even trickier, when I need some
teleportation tricks to enter the next branche.

> clear a lot of it without poison resistance.

No poison resistance doesn't seem to be such a great problem right now.
It's just a matter of food supply when I need lots of godly healing.

> if you are still stuck for poison resistance and a) have an amulet of
> clarity

unfortunately not.

and b) have a method of killing hydras you can try the swamp,

Meanwhile I'm able to kill *one* single hydra with ease (my "method" is
called '+4,+7 Quarterstaff of Speed'), but I don't want to meet them in
packs. Hope that will not happen soon...

> where often a swamp dragon will be kind enough to donate you its skin

I'll keep that in mind. For now I took your first advice and start to
explore the Lair.

Thx,
Rubinstein

 

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Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> whined:
> Tina Hall wrote:

>> [separate caves in the Orcish Mines]
>> [snip]

> Tina, you mentioned (unRot13)

>> Teleportation: ...
>> decks of tricks/power (teleport/instant teleport effect)

> Are the above cards the only Translocation cards?

I'm no good at reading the source, just sometimes lucky at wildly
guessing what something might mean. Decks.cc has the following
(among more cards for each):

static unsigned char deck_of_tricks[] =
CARD_TELEPORT,
CARD_TELEPORT_NOW,

static unsigned char deck_of_power[] =
CARD_TELEPORT_NOW,

Where 'teleport now' is instant Teleport (instead of the usual
delayed version), not Blink.

> The reason I ask, I just found a (yet unID'd) deck of cards. Some
> first tests provided several kinds of translocations like blink
> and teleport.

That should be a deck of tricks, because that has both Blink and
Teleport (deck of power doesn't have Blink).

> Are these the cards you mentioned? Anyway, they should take me to
> the other branches of the mines. What a lucky find!

Uh, there's no guarantee on what cards you draw, and how often, and
after a number (don't know how many ■) the deck is empty and
vanishes. So this is not a good plan. (Might just dump you in a
separate cave without any way out.)

■ I wildly guess that this (also in decks.cc) might indicate the
max number of cards in those decks:

#define DECK_TRICKS_SIZE 11
#define DECK_POWER_SIZE 17

> I've never used cards before, so a couple of questions came up:

There are three questions. <g>

> Are wielding and then envoking the only way to use cards?

As far as I know, yes.

> Are there any costs for using decks of cards (energy, food,
> mana)?

Isn't energy the same as mana? Anyway, not that I know of or noticed
(which isn't helpful, because it could be the case, after all).

> Do the cards use up after a certain time?

Yes.

Some advice on cards:

From experience, an unknown deck of cards usually is a deck of
tricks, especially relatively early in the game, but it doesn't have
to be, thus it's better to identify a deck before using it, because
it might be something you can't handle the bad effects of.

You needn't worry with the one you've got (because it should be a
deck of tricks, unless I'm completely mistaken, and Tricks aren't
particularly useful but not outright harmful, either), but with
further ones it'd be better to be careful.

While a deck of wonders can be neat (really, really neat, if you ask
my current character), it can also send you to Pandemonium■ (and
other horrid places; a Labyrinth, and the Abyss), so it's best used
when you're not afraid of Pandemonium (and best used there or in the
Abyss, as you can't be sent to a Labyrinth from those places, and
actually get kicked out of them when you draw the appropriate card).

■ IIRC, before the current game I only used a deck of wonders
three times. In any case, three times I ended up in Pandemonium,
three times I got killed there. (Actually checked old posts because
I was no longer sure about the first one of these, and it says it
was from a card, and no other deck has this one...)

I'm not sure about Power and Summoning, but I think they can at
least dump some hostile demons on you, Wonders can do that, too, but
the reason why I highlight it here is that it has the worst and the
best effects. Don't let the benefits tempt you before you're ready
(I'm deliberately silent about the details of them). Trust me on
this!

--
Tina the Crawling Barricade - a Believer of the Reckless Nimble Greebling

 

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Rubinstein wrote:
> Tina Hall wrote:
>
>
>>Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> moaned:
>>
>>[separate caves in the Orcish Mines]
>>[snip]
>
>
> Tina, you mentioned (unRot13)
>
>
>>Teleportation: ...
>>decks of tricks/power (teleport/instant teleport effect)
>
> Are the above cards the only Translocation cards?

Of course there are also Pandemonium, Abyss and Labyrinth cards in the
deck of wonders, so make sure your deck is one of _tricks_

> The reason I ask, I just
> found a (yet unID'd) deck of cards. Some first tests provided several
> kinds of translocations like blink and teleport.

you're lucky. It's the right one.

> Are these the cards you mentioned? Anyway, they should take me to the
> other branches of the mines. What a lucky find!

But be careful, the deck will only have a limited number of cards.

> I've never used cards before, so a couple of questions came up:
>
> Are wielding and then envoking the only way to use cards?

yes.

> Are there any costs for using decks of cards (energy, food, mana)?

no.

> Do the cards use up after a certain time?

yes. Each deck has a fixed, but unknown number of uses (4+random(10),
resp. 6+random(15) for a deck of tricks IIRTSC).

Lars

 

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"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_2a8bd2d3@fidonet.org...
> While a deck of wonders can be neat (really, really neat, if you ask
> my current character), it can also send you to Pandemonium■ (and
> other horrid places; a Labyrinth, and the Abyss), so it's best used
> when you're not afraid of Pandemonium (and best used there or in the
> Abyss, as you can't be sent to a Labyrinth from those places, and
> actually get kicked out of them when you draw the appropriate card).

What's so horrid about a Labyrinth?

To add a bit (I guess I should rot-13 this):

Lbh nyfb pna'g trg frag gb Cnaqrzbavhz be gur Nolff (be bhg bs n Ynolevagu) sebz
jvguva n Ynolevagu.

Rira zber fcbvyl:













Lbh pna'g tb guebhtu n cbegny juvyr yrivgngvat, fb Cnaqrzbavhz, Nolff, naq
Ynolevagu pneqf qba'g jbex. Gurl nyfb qba'g jbex va gur irfgvohyr bs Uryy.

> I'm not sure about Power and Summoning, but I think they can at
> least dump some hostile demons on you, Wonders can do that, too, but
> the reason why I highlight it here is that it has the worst and the
> best effects. Don't let the benefits tempt you before you're ready
> (I'm deliberately silent about the details of them). Trust me on
> this!

Particularly with Decks of Wonder, it doesn't hurt to have a high Evocations
skill.

--
Jeremey

 

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"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_2a8bd2d3@fidonet.org...
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> whined:
>> Tina Hall wrote:
>
> Some advice on cards:
>
> [Careful of the Abyss, Pandemonium, etc]

Spoiler warning!

....
































Anyway, if you levitate (any means) before pulling cards from wonders
decks (any deck with ``punishment'' cards that take you to bad places) then
they cannot send you to these ``bad'' places. This also has the rather neat
side effect of creating portals to these places for you.

--
Glen
Lyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+

 

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"Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> writes:

>Spoiler warning!

>...
































> Anyway, if you levitate (any means) before pulling cards from wonders
>decks (any deck with ``punishment'' cards that take you to bad places) then
>they cannot send you to these ``bad'' places. This also has the rather neat
>side effect of creating portals to these places for you.

I wonder what happens if you pull one of those cards while levitating
over a space that already has a portal to somewhere, or a staircase.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

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"Jukka Kuusisto" <jkuusist@cc.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:jkuusist.1100845572@kosh.hut.fi...
> "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> writes:
>
>>Spoiler warning!
>
>>...
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>> Anyway, if you levitate (any means) before pulling cards from wonders
>>decks (any deck with ``punishment'' cards that take you to bad places)
>>then
>>they cannot send you to these ``bad'' places. This also has the rather
>>neat
>>side effect of creating portals to these places for you.
>
> I wonder what happens if you pull one of those cards while levitating
> over a space that already has a portal to somewhere, or a staircase.
>

If I remember correctly, the old ``portal'' (staircase, whatever) is
replaced.

--
Glen
Lyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+

 

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Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> roared:
> "Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote

>> While a deck of wonders can be neat (really, really neat, if you
>> ask my current character), it can also send you to
>> Pandemonium■ (and other horrid places; a Labyrinth, and the
>> Abyss), so it's best used when you're not afraid of Pandemonium
>> (and best used there or in the Abyss, as you can't be sent to a
>> Labyrinth from those places, and actually get kicked out of them
>> when you draw the appropriate card).

> What's so horrid about a Labyrinth?

The stairs-out disappearing when you save and restore the game
inside a Labyrinth.

Spoiler concerning decks of wonder transportation to other branches
follows.



> They also don't work in the vestibule of Hell.

How/why not?

--
Tina the Very Crazy Crawler - the Champion of the Ridiculous Noble Gardener

 

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"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_2ab43ac6@fidonet.org...
> Jeremey Wilson <noaddressgiven@yahoo.com> roared:
> > "Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote

> Spoiler concerning decks of wonder transportation to other branches
> follows.
>
>
>
> > They also don't work in the vestibule of Hell.
>
> How/why not?

"A mysterious force prevents you from descending the staircase" also works on
the portals that are created to send you to Pandemonium/the Abyss/a Labyrinth.
So you don't even need to levitate.

I don't think I mentioned it before, but I consider all of these shameful
abuses.

--
Jeremey