List of Roguelikes?

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What other roguelikes are there worth trying?

List of things that needn't be recommended follows:

Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
(besides, I got bored with it).

Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't post,
refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's 'rules'
can't be called a maintainer).

Ragnarok - Has a time limit, bad screen management, bad
interface,... And isn't even a roguelike.

Adom - Too linear/restrictive. (Besides, the questions for character
creation are a stupid mis-feature.)

Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.

Omega - needs a needless directory (C:\Tmp), also has some stupid
questions (and even stupider replies) for character creation, and
the doc says it doesn't remember all dungeons. Starting a game
despite that and looking around that 'town?' a bit didn't convince
me to give it a proper try.

--
Tina
 
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Tina_Hall@kruemel.org wrote:
> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?

Decker - http://www.caro.net/dsi/decker/

Try Xenocide too. Still under development, but if you play a bit, post
the comments here. They will be appreciated.

http://xenocide.e-plan.pl (the website is down now, but there's a link
to the game).

regards,
Jakub
--
"We're just toys in the hands of Xom"
xenocide.e-plan.pl - SF roguelike in development
www.graveyard.uni.cc - visit Roguelike Graveyard
www.alamak0ta.republika.pl - my other projects.
 
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bork bork bork Tina Hall bork 5:19:00 AM bork 11/24/2004 bork bork:

> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>
> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>
> [List of every major roguelike and roguelike family follows :)]

Why not take a break from roguelikes for a bit and do a quite enjoyable
roguelike-like puzzle game?

http://www.drod.net

Erik
 
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Tina Hall wrote:
> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?

Don't know whether it fits your taste, but you could have a look into "3059"
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jvight/mirror/3059/
Didn't play it myself (yet), but I've read some "promising" comments. No
guarantee, of course...

> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>
> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
> (besides, I got bored with it).

Agreed. If I would have to eliminate all the annoying stuff from
Nethack, a game very close to Crawl would be the result. ;-)

> Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't post,
> refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's 'rules'
> can't be called a maintainer).

Sure, no more maintenance is a sad story, but still - currently the best
roguelike around, IMO (of course) and compared to the ones I know...

> Ragnarok - Has a time limit, bad screen management, bad interface,...
> And isn't even a roguelike.

I also wasn't very impressed.

> Adom - Too linear/restrictive. (Besides, the questions for character
> creation are a stupid mis-feature.)

Not that bad, but personally I found that I don't like static quests
(the same goes for ToME, for instance).

> Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.

If I wouldn't have found Crawl, I would still play it, Oangband in
particular. I started playing Angband variants with ToME, because you
actually can play it with (optional) persistant levels (same goes for
Hengband IIRC). But after a while I found persistant levels just don't
fit with the concept of Angband and finally I got used to the
non-persistant levels. But I think I understand your point: it needs
some patience, if you only played persistant roguelikes before...

> Omega

No comment (don't know anything about it).

Rubinstein
 
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jakub@mks.com.pl wrote:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org wrote:

I'd recommend one more game - futuristic again:

JauntTrooper - Mission: Thunderbolt
http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=4199

It has a few annoying elements (very limited FOV),
but it's pretty fun.

regards,
Jakub
--
"We're just toys in the hands of Xom"
xenocide.e-plan.pl - SF roguelike in development
www.graveyard.uni.cc - visit Roguelike Graveyard
www.alamak0ta.republika.pl - my other projects
 
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Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in message news:<MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_2abc44d3@fidonet.org>...
> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>
> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>
> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes

annoying puns aside, all the different commands in roguelikes can be
annoying; why hasn't anyone created a smarter interface?
!- meta-D for Dip. q for quaff. u for use. a for apply.
how about "U"se !
would you like to 1. drink 2. pour on another item 3.light 4. throw

'T' ake off armor or 'R' remove accessories
why not one command for both?
 
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Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
>What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
[all major roguelikes and Ragnarok]

Plenty of people enjoy all of these. Maybe the bug is in you?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
 
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damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
> [all major roguelikes and Ragnarok]
>
> Plenty of people enjoy all of these. Maybe the bug is in you?

Everything is boring after some time.
What is suprising in such kind of question?

For me Nethack is nothing but annoying, but...
de gustibus non est disputandum...

regards
Jakub
--
"We're just toys in the hands of Xom"
xenocide.e-plan.pl - SF roguelike in development
www.graveyard.uni.cc - visit Roguelike Graveyard
www.alamak0ta.republika.pl - my other projects
 
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Jakub Debski <jakub@mks.com.pl> wrote:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org wrote:

>> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?

> Decker

What's that like? Why do you recommend it?

> Try Xenocide too. Still under development, but if you play a bit,
> post the comments here. They will be appreciated.

Same questions here...

[From your own followup-post:]

> I'd recommend one more game - futuristic again:

'Again' like what other one?

> JauntTrooper - Mission: Thunderbolt

What's that like?

> It has a few annoying elements (very limited FOV),
> but it's pretty fun.

FOV?

(To actually get a game I'd need a direkt link to a file for a DOS
compilation, so far I only ask for what roguelikes there are,
though.)

--
Tina - Living in the Twilight Zone.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of an insane mind!!!!
(Apologies to Terry Pratchett.)
CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3. Usenet/Fidonet gateway, no internet access.
 
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Tina Hall wrote:
> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>
> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>
> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
> (besides, I got bored with it).
>
> Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't post,
> refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's 'rules'
> can't be called a maintainer).
>
> Ragnarok - Has a time limit, bad screen management, bad
> interface,... And isn't even a roguelike.
>
> Adom - Too linear/restrictive. (Besides, the questions for character
> creation are a stupid mis-feature.)
>
> Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.
>
> Omega - needs a needless directory (C:\Tmp), also has some stupid
> questions (and even stupider replies) for character creation, and
> the doc says it doesn't remember all dungeons. Starting a game
> despite that and looking around that 'town?' a bit didn't convince
> me to give it a proper try.
>

Try thelist.roguelikedevelopment.org for a list of roguelike sorted
after most recent release. Many of the games on the list are actively
being developed, some are in their earlier stage and some can be
classified as "completed".

--
Björn Bergström
roguelike development [http://roguelikedevelopment.org]
dweller - cellphone roguelike [http://roguelikedevelopment.org/dweller]
 
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bork bork bork Peter Borgmann bork 10:22:41 AM bork 11/24/2004 bork bork:

While we're at this (I've thought every now and then of posting some thoughts
on the "big four" myself)...

> > Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
> > (besides, I got bored with it).
>
> Agreed. If I would have to eliminate all the annoying stuff from Nethack, a
> game very close to Crawl would be the result. ;-)
>
If I had to eliminate all the stuff from Nethack that annoys ME, a game very
close to a "now there's an @ and you can move it" pre-alpha demo would
result. :))) Still, it's obvious there are plenty of masoc... I mean users
who enjoy it, since it's quite possible got more discussion than rgrm,
rgradom, and rgrangband combined. Why they enjoy it, however, I do not know.
Perhaps it was just their first call of port in the roguelike world, and they
identify the things that are fun about roguelikes overall with Nethack in
particular, and look no further. Ehm, no, proti gustu není žádný disputát, as
someone else here wrote (in Latin, which I can't write). OK, OK... There's no
accounting for taste. (In Czech: against taste there is no argument.)

> > Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't post,
> > refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's 'rules'
> > can't be called a maintainer).
>
> Sure, no more maintenance is a sad story, but still - currently the best
> roguelike around, IMO (of course) and compared to the ones I know...

It's hard for me to say a roguelike is "best," because there are several I
like quite a bit and usually whichever Roguelike I'm playing at a given
moment seems "the best" at that moment. Unless it's NetHack, of course...

On the other hand, until recently, I swore it would be years until I picked
up Crawl again, it was just THAT frustrating for me. And then suddenly the
barrier broke, somehow and I guess I started to picked up all the little
tricks that get you through the opening. So maybe I will magically stop being
bothered by Nethack's "read a cursed scroll of confusion while eating a
leprachaun on a new moon and you'll get a wand of wishing" approach.

> > Ragnarok - Has a time limit, bad screen management, bad interface,...
> > And isn't even a roguelike.
>
> I also wasn't very impressed.

Years ago, but I also also wasn't. ("AOL!")

>
> > Adom - Too linear/restrictive. (Besides, the questions for character
> > creation are a stupid mis-feature.)
>
> Not that bad, but personally I found that I don't like static quests
> (the same goes for ToME, for instance).

Proti gustu...

THE game that got me started playing roguelikes, and holds a dear place in my
heart. After something like 2 years of non-stop play, I got really burnt out,
though. I have some fairly advanced ADOM characters on the back burner that I
hope I will be "recovered" enough to continue with some day.

ADOM isn't really all that linear or restrictive. A few things must be done
in order; the vast majority need not be. A few things must be done; the vast
majority is optional.

I'm really baffled by Tina's complaint about the opening question system.
It's optional, it's non-default, and the sum total of the real estate it
takes up for those of us who don't use it (which includes me) is one extra
keypress when launching a character -- 'r'andom instead of 'a'sk....

> > Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.
>
> If I wouldn't have found Crawl, I would still play it, Oangband in
> particular. I started playing Angband variants with ToME, because you
> actually can play it with (optional) persistant levels (same goes for
> Hengband IIRC). But after a while I found persistant levels just don't
> fit with the concept of Angband and finally I got used to the
> non-persistant levels. But I think I understand your point: it needs
> some patience, if you only played persistant roguelikes before...
>
Not much for Vanilla Angband, not much for most variants either, but I REALLY
REALLY enjoyed ToME (so much that I played it into the ground, burnt out on
it and picked up Crawl again). Somehow ToME manages to overcome the "walking
in a vague, monotonous, boring dream world" feeling I otherwise get from
"tempadungeons". I might even recommend it to Tina if she hadn't informed
everyone ahead of time not to bother with "the whole Angband family". "Give
me advice, but don't tell me anything I don't want to hear..."

> > Omega

[no comment -- nothing to say]

Erik
 
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"Tina Hall" wrote:
> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>
> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:

[snip]

> Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't post,
> refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's 'rules'
> can't be called a maintainer).

[...delurking here...]

Mang, what are you talking about? I find Brent's posts to be among the
best and most interesting (both here and on r.g.r.development). Of
course he may "arbitrarily decide the game's rules", but what else
would you expect the maintainer to do? Seriously - have a look at the
crawl source code - it is such a tangled mess that you have to come up
with some rules or it just doesn't make sense.

Bugs? Sure, crawl has loads (some of the 'features' are arguably
bugs), but if you're talking about the 'unending transformation',
that's *not* a bug, read the game message again!

[snip more ineligible roguelikes]

> Omega - needs a needless directory (C:\Tmp), also has some stupid
> questions (and even stupider replies) for character creation, and
> the doc says it doesn't remember all dungeons. Starting a game
> despite that and looking around that 'town?' a bit didn't convince
> me to give it a proper try.

You may well enjoy it. I find it to be one of the most interesting
(it has some very innovative ideas), but has a vastly different style
of play to just about any other roguelike. Combat tends to be a bit
ho-hum, but the quest and guild structure is fun and unusual. The
'wildernes' is especially admirable as it is not just some vast plain
of featureless terrain - and it makes 'getting lost' more realistic.


Otherwise, I'd strongly suggest either of Joseph's more mature
offerings - GearHead or DeadCold. DeadCold doesn't seem to be under
active development at the moment, but GearHead is a great blend of
anime and giant mecha robots stomping each other.

I know you don't have web access, but the links are:

GH: http://gearhead.roguelikedevelopment.org/gh-0900-doswin.zip

and

DC: http://www.geocities.com/pyrrho12/programming/deadcold/game.zip


Cheers,
Adam
 
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Erik Piper <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:
> bork bork bork Tina Hall bork 5:19:00 AM bork 11/24/2004 bork
> bork:

>> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>>
>> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>>
>> [List of every major roguelike and roguelike family follows :)]

> Why not take a break from roguelikes for a bit

Only if there's no enjoyable one left.

> and do a quite enjoyable roguelike-like puzzle game?

What kind of puzzle? The ones I can think of aren't anything to do
for a significant length of time, if at all.

--
Tina - Living in the Twilight Zone.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of an insane mind!!!!
(Apologies to Terry Pratchett.)
CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3. Usenet/Fidonet gateway, no internet access.
 
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Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:

> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?

> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:

> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
> (besides, I got bored with it).

But they're fun, and when Gehennom and the end-game balance is
fixed, they'll be even more fun.

> Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't
> post, refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's
> 'rules' can't be called a maintainer).

Looks like you're having a bad day. Brent Ross doesn't fit that
description.

> Adom - Too linear/restrictive. (Besides, the questions for
> character creation are a stupid mis-feature.)

For me it's the repetitive quests (I want to stop saving the
carpenter, already) and the bugs, and the lack of source code so I
can't even fix the bugs that keep crashing my games.

The questions for character creation can be skipped, y'know.

> Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.

I've often wondered whether I'd have liked the bands if I'd found,
say, ToME before NetHack. As it is, the non-persistent levels keep
putting me off badly.

Darshan
 
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Erik Piper wrote:
> bork bork bork Peter Borgmann bork 10:22:41 AM bork 11/24/2004 bork
> bork:
>
> While we're at this (I've thought every now and then of posting some
> thoughts on the "big four" myself)...
>
>>> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
>>> (besides, I got bored with it).
>>
>> Agreed. If I would have to eliminate all the annoying stuff from
>> Nethack, a game very close to Crawl would be the result. ;-)
>
> If I had to eliminate all the stuff from Nethack that annoys ME, a
> game very close to a "now there's an @ and you can move it" pre-alpha
> demo would result. :)))

Ok, I better should have add "if I could" ;-)

> Still, it's obvious there are plenty of masoc... I mean users who
> enjoy it, since it's quite possible got more discussion than rgrm,
> rgradom, and rgrangband combined. Why they enjoy it, however, I do
> not know. Perhaps it was just their first call of port in the
> roguelike world, and they identify the things that are fun about
> roguelikes overall with Nethack in particular, and look no further.

Actually, Nethack was my very first roguelike and I played it for more
than 4 years. I enjoyed the game very much, obviously... What I now find
is wrong with Nethack is the kind of 'artificial' difficulty. Nethack is
pretty hard for beginners, but not because of it's monsters, just
because there are so much hidden and odd rules.

I tend to call chess a reference to a perfect game: it has one of the
easiest rules I can think of, but is still one of of the most complex
games (probably only beaten by Go). And that's the problem with Nethack.
Once you've learned all the silly rules (as in 'reading all the spoilers
around'), the game is much less difficult and tends to become boring.
That's what I like with Crawl: the monsters have to be a never ending
challenge while the rules are as easy and straight forward as possible.

>> Sure, no more maintenance is a sad story, but still - currently the
>> best roguelike around, IMO (of course) and compared to the ones I
>> know...
>
> It's hard for me to say a roguelike is "best," because there are
> several I like quite a bit and usually whichever Roguelike I'm
> playing at a given moment seems "the best" at that moment. Unless
> it's NetHack, of course...

Same goes for me, that's why I even tried to relativate with "IMO",
something I usually don't since IMO is some kind of a 'globale context'
for all my statements.
Or in other words: AOL! ;-)

> On the other hand, until recently, I swore it would be years until I
> picked up Crawl again, it was just THAT frustrating for me.

Strange enough, I don't have any problems with this. Most of the time I
even play random characters which, as you can imagine, highly increases
my death-rate even more. And though most of my chars have a lifespan
shorter than flies, I still enjoy exploring new features/items on the
first few levels. (Currently I stray from this path by playing a
(choosen) HECj which, now at clvl 10, actually seems to have some
potential). But I'm always assuming to die behind the next corner,
everything else I take as a welcome surprise.

>> If I wouldn't have found Crawl, I would still play it, Oangband in
>> particular.
>> [...]
>
> Not much for Vanilla Angband, not much for most variants either, but
> I REALLY REALLY enjoyed ToME (so much that I played it into the
> ground, burnt out on it and picked up Crawl again).
> [...]

ToME was my entry to the Angband family, mainly because of it's optional
persistant levels, a pretty half-hearted implementation of persistant
levels which, in this form, doesn't make much sense in a 'bandish
environment. In the end I was somewhat disapointed by the (so
promising!) concept of the weapon- and sub-mastery skill system. It just
doesn't feel right to me if I concentrate on axemastery for instance,
but still doing significantly better with a chaotic long sword for more
than half of the game (though I already had one of the best axes around,
the 'Great Axe of Durin'.

I've also found ToME the most unbalanced (_not_ as in 'difficulty
against the player') of any 'bands I played after ToME (Oangband by the
way probably is the best balanced of all 'bands). With '98 quests' for
instance you can scum until the doctor comes, having a full developed
character with still half of the game in front. Ok, you can skip most of
the remaining part then, but does it make sense?

Or just compare the good available weapons for polearm- and axemasters:
though it even was unbalanced in favour to polearms, they decided to
declare even more axes (e.g. the Lochaber Axes) into the polearm group.
Discussions in the ToME forum ended with a "if you don't like it, then
don't play axemasters". That silly comment (from the co-developer) was
the final show-stopper for me.

Besides, a game being not maintained anymore is one thing. A game of
which new versions are released about every 6 month, but with known bugs
still remaining along 3 or more versions is just another story...

Rubinstein
 
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Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:
>annoying puns aside, all the different commands in roguelikes can be
>annoying; why hasn't anyone created a smarter interface?
>!- meta-D for Dip. q for quaff. u for use. a for apply.
>how about "U"se !
>would you like to 1. drink 2. pour on another item 3.light 4. throw

Replacing one keystroke with two may help novice players, but it hardly
helps players who are accustomed to the interface.

>'T' ake off armor or 'R' remove accessories
>why not one command for both?

That's just a historical oddity from Rogue, to be fair, and should
probably be corrected.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
 
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"Tina Hall" <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote in message
news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_2abc44d3@fidonet.org...
> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>
> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>
> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
> (besides, I got bored with it).
>

I also become irritated by nethack.

> Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't post,
> refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the games's 'rules'
> can't be called a maintainer).
>

I respect Brent Ross as the current maintainer. He posts well, and makes
coherent easy to follow arguments. I'm not sure I can say the same for you
however. The maintainer decides the rules and the bugs, this is a fact.
You don't, so if he states something is not a bug: it's not. This is not a
fault on his part. If you're riled up about that necromutation thing, may I
refer you to every other Crawler here who experiences no such problem.

> Ragnarok - Has a time limit, bad screen management, bad
> interface,... And isn't even a roguelike.
>

It isn't? Why?
I quite enjoy Ragnorak on the rare occasion. One of the easier roguelikes
to finish.

> Adom - Too linear/restrictive. (Besides, the questions for character
> creation are a stupid mis-feature.)
>

Adom irritates me similarly to nethack.

> Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.
>

Angband is rather monotonous. But I quite enjoy it, especially the
variants: Sangband, Oangband, Posband and NPPAngband. Oh, and Unangband,
but it's been a while since I've seen Andrew update.

> Omega - needs a needless directory (C:\Tmp), also has some stupid
> questions (and even stupider replies) for character creation, and
> the doc says it doesn't remember all dungeons. Starting a game
> despite that and looking around that 'town?' a bit didn't convince
> me to give it a proper try.
>

The questions on character creation always throw me off. Ogre Battle
should have seen the end of those...

--
Glen
L:pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
 
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Darshan Shaligram <scintilla@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:

>> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?

>> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:

>> Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
>> (besides, I got bored with it).

> But they're fun,

There's no fun left with all the things that don't make sense and
just annoy.

>> Crawl - No maintenance and one bug too many (a jerk that can't
>> post, refuses to admit bugs, and arbitrairily decides the
>> games's 'rules' can't be called a maintainer).

> Looks like you're having a bad day.

Why are you suddenly so condescending? Are you having a bad day?

> Brent Ross doesn't fit that description.

Of course he does, on every count. I'm not interested in wasting my
time on him, though, which includes discussing his attitude.

Where's your recommendation of something else? I just see you
criticising my opinion, which isn't even open for discussion, just
an explanation for why these games need not be recommended, to help
make actually useful recommendations.

--
Tina - Living in the Twilight Zone.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of an insane mind!!!!
(Apologies to Terry Pratchett.)
CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3. Usenet/Fidonet gateway, no internet access.
 
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Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
>Darshan Shaligram <scintilla@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Brent Ross doesn't fit that description.
>Where's your recommendation of something else? I just see you
>criticising my opinion, which isn't even open for discussion,

It was posted. Hence it is open for discussion. You don't control the
thread.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
 
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bork bork bork Tina Hall bork 5:48:00 PM bork 11/24/2004 bork bork:

> Erik Piper <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:
> > bork bork bork Tina Hall bork 5:19:00 AM bork 11/24/2004 bork
> > bork:
>
> >> What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
> > >
> >> List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
> > >
> >> [List of every major roguelike and roguelike family follows :)]
>
> > Why not take a break from roguelikes for a bit
>
> Only if there's no enjoyable one left.
>
> > and do a quite enjoyable roguelike-like puzzle game?
>
> What kind of puzzle? The ones I can think of aren't anything to do
> for a significant length of time, if at all.

To put it in roguelike terms and ignore graphics: You have an @. It has a
constantly present extension: a sword, which takes up a full square and has
an orientation (the direction you're "standing"). Turn-based. Under normal
circumstances, you can each turn either move, rest, or rotate. You face,
besides the dungeon itself, a small variety of monsters, each also with one
HP. You have one HP too. The puzzles are predefined, by the original author
or, if you wish, fan authors as well. Good luck...

It's not something I can play non-stop, but it's a good break from roguelikes
when I need a new perspective. Incidentally, I first found out about it on
rec.games.roguelike.development.
 
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Tina_Hall@kruemel.org wrote:
> > Decker
>
> What's that like? Why do you recommend it?

I could say... "go and try it by yourself", but... ok...

It's interesting and innovative - the game is strictly cyber-punk.
The action takes place mainly in virtual reality, where you have to pass
by security structure to finnish taken contracts.

> > Try Xenocide too. Still under development, but if you play a bit,
> > post the comments here. They will be appreciated.
>
> Same questions here...

Well... Try it, because I'm the author :)
Xenocide can be described as a hard-SF survival game. I recommend you to
read The Story from manual to understand what is going on.
It has a lot of unique ideas and some people like the game very much,
even in dev state.

> > I'd recommend one more game - futuristic again:
> 'Again' like what other one?

These two mentioned above.

> > JauntTrooper - Mission: Thunderbolt
>
> What's that like?

"Save the world beeing a space trooper".
The game has simple but clear graphics, can be controlled by mouse,
which is helpful.
Look at that website for more info:
http://members.aol.com/mrwiz/thunderbolt.html

> > It has a few annoying elements (very limited FOV),
> > but it's pretty fun.
>
> FOV?

"Field of view", usually you see in that game only near cell,
later you find some items to incrase it.
The other thing is level generator, that sometimes produces too
labirynthic levels.

> (To actually get a game I'd need a direkt link to a file for a DOS
> compilation, so far I only ask for what roguelikes there are,
> though.)

Come on, Yoda says: "use the google, Luke".

regards
Jakub
--
"We're just toys in the hands of Xom"
xenocide.e-plan.pl - SF roguelike in development
www.graveyard.uni.cc - visit Roguelike Graveyard
www.alamak0ta.republika.pl - my other projects
 
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"Darshan Shaligram" <scintilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95AB6281ACE3Edarshansaztecsoftnet@130.133.1.4...
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>
>
>> Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.
>
> I've often wondered whether I'd have liked the bands if I'd found,
> say, ToME before NetHack. As it is, the non-persistent levels keep
> putting me off badly.
>

Why? I'm curious as to what exactly you don't like about non-persistent
levels.

--
Glen
L:pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
 
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Glen Wheeler <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:
>"Darshan Shaligram" <scintilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>>>Angband (and variants) - Levels aren't kept, too monotonous.
>>I've often wondered whether I'd have liked the bands if I'd found,
>>say, ToME before NetHack. As it is, the non-persistent levels keep
>>putting me off badly.
>Why? I'm curious as to what exactly you don't like about non-persistent
>levels.

I can't speak for Darshan, but I think they tend to go hand-in-hand with
endlessly repeated scumming of the kinds the 'bands promote, because any
sticky situation can be left behind forever and replaced with a fresh
level full of goodies.

NetHack falls prey to this in the middle game, which could use a clock;
Crawl avoids it by making the non-persistent levels highly dangerous
almost all the time.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
 
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bork bork bork David Damerell bork 1:17:22 AM bork 11/25/2004 bork bork:

> Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > annoying puns aside, all the different commands in roguelikes can be
> > annoying; why hasn't anyone created a smarter interface?
> > !- meta-D for Dip. q for quaff. u for use. a for apply.
> > how about "U"se !
> > would you like to 1. drink 2. pour on another item 3.light 4. throw
>
> Replacing one keystroke with two may help novice players, but it hardly
> helps players who are accustomed to the interface.

I tend to agree more with Jason. Rather than criticizing, the approach
suggested could be refined. To name just one example of how to refine it:

'u' - show inventory list, user picks letter, game does default action for
that object in the current context. For most objects, this should be dead
obvious to anyone with the intelligence to program a roguelike. Default
actions for given contexts (I_am_wearing_it, I_am_wielding_it,
I_am_buck_naked, whatever) can be configured in an ini file, natch. Dialog is
fundamentally visually different from 'U' below, to avoid "but I wanted to
DROP it" complaints.

'U' - show inventory list. User picks letter. Full list of actions, valid and
invalid (to avoid spoiling), to apply to object is shown. Optional quick
filters based on "common sense" can't/shouldn't-do-thats can be applied at
the user's request: nothing but don/doff/drop for a helmet, for example,
rather than the whole shebang. This with the caveat that the user may be
hiding useful options from herself. Spoiled users can build their own more
elegant filters, and spoil-hungry beginners download them from advanced
players of our hypothetical game.

Ideally every action is additional further user-mappable to a key of its own,
with a few universal actions already mapped (it probably wouldn't make sense
to eliminate 'd'rop because of the universal key, for example).

Erik
 
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Jason Northrup schrieb:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in message news:<MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_2abc44d3@fidonet.org>...
>
>>What other roguelikes are there worth trying?
>>
>>List of things that needn't be recommended follows:
>>
>>Nethack/Slash'EM - Too much doesn't makes sense and just annoyes
>
>
> annoying puns aside, all the different commands in roguelikes can be
> annoying; why hasn't anyone created a smarter interface?

I have ;)
You don't need to remember thousands of different commands to play my game:

http://todoom.sourceforge.net/

copx