New Palms vs. the powered USB hub

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Phyber Quest wrote:
> Do NOT use the new palm cables with the USB hubs that are powered.
>
> The new cables to sync your palm with seems to be weak and will fry
your PDA
> if connected to a powered USB.
>
> But for older palms that have the big cradles, no problems seems to
happen.
>
> I know it fried a T5 with the cable it came with and a Clie NR70
(with a
> belkin cable).
>
> Any of you know why?
>
> Thanks ahead for your response.
>
> Cheers,
> PQ

I have synced a TE using it's cable and a different cable to a powered
hub, and have not had any problems.

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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:17:08 -0700, Phyber Quest
<phyberquest@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Do NOT use the new palm cables with the USB hubs that are powered.
>
>The new cables to sync your palm with seems to be weak and will fry your PDA
>if connected to a powered USB.
>
I have had no problems using a T5 on a powered USB hub.

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Can you all tell me what powered USB Hubs that you use?

Thanks and cheers,
PQ

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"Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote in message
news:sd2dnY4QLIC5L57fRVn-qg@giganews.com...
> It comes with a plug-in power supply for 5.0VDC. Handles USB 1.1 and 2.2

Sorry, typo. 2.0.

> but doesn't see my
> Zire 71. I've never figured that later out,

And WinME never saw the Zire when it was plugged in to one of the on-board USB
ports either, so it's not a problem with the hub.

- Bill

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Phyber Quest <phyberquest@yahoo.com> writes:

> Do NOT use the new palm cables with the USB hubs that are powered.
>
> The new cables to sync your palm with seems to be weak and will fry your PDA
> if connected to a powered USB.

Umm. This doesn't make any sense. A "weak" (and in this case that
would mean both non-complying with the USB standard and absolutely
insanely designd) cable would fail, but but would not damage the Palm.

> But for older palms that have the big cradles, no problems seems to happen.
>
> I know it fried a T5 with the cable it came with and a Clie NR70 (with a
> belkin cable).
>
> Any of you know why?

Only guess I can come up with is your hub is not just powered, but
faulty and putting too high a voltage on the line. I'm not really
familiar with USB Palms (mine is still serial), but it's certainly
possible that a USB Palm with a cradle wouldn't use the power from the
hub, thus isolating it from the power supply problems in your hub.

Has your hub fried any other bus-powered devices you've plugged into
it?
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer

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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:32:33 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:

> Per Phyber Quest:
>>Can you all tell me what powered USB Hubs that you use?
>
> I got uneasy with my hub after frying a couple of hard drives. Can't *say* it
> was the hub....but...
>
> Now I have a couple of five-port USB cards in the back and a 4-port connector in
> a floppy drive in the front that connects to one of the cards' internal port.
> OTOH, maybe the thing in front is actually a hub....dunno...but I don't connect
> my data drives to it....just the occasional portable device.

The "thing in front" is a hub. I'd lay you odds that if you looked at
the box it came in, you'd see the word "hub" on it.

--
Derek

If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great
disappointments.

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"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:cacpo5r32umw$.dlg@gwinn.us...
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:32:33 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:
> > Now I have a couple of five-port USB cards in the back and a 4-port
connector in
> > a floppy drive in the front that connects to one of the cards' internal
port.
> > OTOH, maybe the thing in front is actually a hub....dunno...but I don't
connect
> > my data drives to it....just the occasional portable device.
>
> The "thing in front" is a hub. I'd lay you odds that if you looked at
> the box it came in, you'd see the word "hub" on it.

Maybe, or maybe not. The two USB ports beside my floppy drive are just
connectors and cables. They go to the internal USB port connectors on my
motherboard. Under WinME these two ports appear as my #3 and #4 main ports.
Pete, how do those show up in your hardware profile?

- Bill

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"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qUSMd.9936$uL5.4488@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Bill Leary wrote:
> > It comes with a plug-in power supply for 5.0VDC. Handles USB 1.1 and 2.2
> > automatically and has a USB 1.1 USB 2.0 LEDs on it. Four ports WinME shows
it
> > as a "Generic USB Hub." It correctly reports my HP Scanjet, but doesn't see
my
> > Zire 71. I've never figured that later out
>
> Even though it's plugged in, the Palm doesn't really connect as a USB
> device until you do a hotsync. Probably the Palm is just not activating
> its USB port until then, in order to save power.

I pretty sure you're correct. The Zire 71 doesn't draw power from the USB port
to charge, it uses separate power connections from the cradle.

Now, I wonder about my wife's Tungsten E? It has a separate power cable, but as
I recall it supposedly will charge from the USB cable (no cradle) as well. I
wonder if it would show up?

> If you want to see it on the USB bus, go to the Device Manager in
> the control panels (under System, I think), show all the USB devices
> on the same bus, and then hit the hotsync button. At least on Win XP,
> the Palm will show up for a few moments while it hotsyncs, then
> it will disappear again.

I know I *have* seen it at least once, and this may well be how it happened. I
didn't do it intentionally, and I recall being surprised that it showed up at
all. It was there on one display, then gone a few minutes later. I think I
*was* hot synching when it appeared, because I'd just entered a lot of stuff
into a note from a phone call and it's my habit to hot sync right after I do
something like that.

- Bill

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On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:15:23 -0500, Bill Leary wrote:

> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:cacpo5r32umw$.dlg@gwinn.us...
>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:32:33 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) wrote:
>>> Now I have a couple of five-port USB cards in the back and a 4-port
>>> connector in a floppy drive in the front that connects to one of the
>>> cards' internal port.
>>> OTOH, maybe the thing in front is actually a hub....dunno...but I don't
>>> connect my data drives to it....just the occasional portable device.
>>
>> The "thing in front" is a hub. I'd lay you odds that if you looked at
>> the box it came in, you'd see the word "hub" on it.
>
> Maybe, or maybe not. The two USB ports beside my floppy drive are just
> connectors and cables. They go to the internal USB port connectors on my
> motherboard. Under WinME these two ports appear as my #3 and #4 main ports.
> Pete, how do those show up in your hardware profile?
>
> - Bill

The devil is in the details.

Pete noted that he added a couple of PCI cards to his computer to get
extra USB ports. And he noted that the 4-port adapter he added to the
floppy bay connects to "one of the cards' internal port".

That's "port," and it's singular. So if he's got 4 USB ports going
through 1 internal port on an aftermarket PCI card, what do you want
to bet that the device residing in his floppy bay is a hub?

You maybe right, but only if Pete didn't accurately represent his
system.
--
Derek

Quitters never win. Winners never quit.
But those who never win and never quit are idiots.

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"Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote in
news:Ed-dnX96oLxplJnfRVn-vQ@giganews.com:

> I pretty sure you're correct. The Zire 71 doesn't draw power from the
> USB port to charge, it uses separate power connections from the
> cradle.
>
> Now, I wonder about my wife's Tungsten E? It has a separate power
> cable, but as I recall it supposedly will charge from the USB cable
> (no cradle) as well. I wonder if it would show up?

No Palm will show up except when hotsync is initiated. And they all
charge from the USB if the wall wart is removed.

--
Regards,

Stan

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On 05 Feb 2005 00:33:50 GMT, Stan Gosnell <murkuhn@gmail.com> wrote:


>> Now, I wonder about my wife's Tungsten E? It has a separate power
>> cable, but as I recall it supposedly will charge from the USB cable
>> (no cradle) as well. I wonder if it would show up?
>
>No Palm will show up except when hotsync is initiated.

The T5 shows up unless it's turned off.

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It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs
and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Phyber
Quest <phyberquest@yahoo.com> wrote in
<BE28F2F1.ED40%phyberquest@yahoo.com>:

> Can you all tell me what powered USB Hubs that you use?
>
None. They're more trouble than they're worth.


--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GIT/S/TW d- s:+ a31 C++++ U P+ L E---- W++ N+++ o K--- w+ O-- M V PS+
PE Y+ PGP- t++(-) 5 X+ R- tv++ b+ DI++++ D++ G e++ h-- r- y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Roberto Castillo
robertocastillo@ameritech.net
http://www.freewebs.com/robertocastillo/

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"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:b4eupijcjo5b.dlg@gwinn.us...
> >> The "thing in front" is a hub. I'd lay you odds that if you looked at
> >> the box it came in, you'd see the word "hub" on it.
> >
> > Maybe, or maybe not. The two USB ports beside my floppy drive are just
> > connectors and cables. They go to the internal USB port connectors on my
> > motherboard. Under WinME these two ports appear as my #3 and #4 main ports.
> > Pete, how do those show up in your hardware profile?
>
> The devil is in the details.
>
> Pete noted that he added a couple of PCI cards to his computer to get
> extra USB ports. And he noted that the 4-port adapter he added to the
> floppy bay connects to "one of the cards' internal port".
>
> That's "port," and it's singular. So if he's got 4 USB ports going
> through 1 internal port on an aftermarket PCI card, what do you want
> to bet that the device residing in his floppy bay is a hub?

Good point.

Of course, if the floppy bay thing came with the PCI card (or from it's
manufacturer) the manufacturer may have made up a single cable to conveniently
convey the four ports cables.

> You maybe right, but only if Pete didn't accurately represent his
> system.

He could have accurately expressed what he saw (one physical connector port, one
cable) but it could have been four ports. We could go on questioning this I
suppose (i.e.: how many pins were on that connector?) but there's no real need.

Your observation is a good one, and given the device list he showed us I think
you're correct. If he says he's got no hubs (which I thought he said he put in
the PCI cards to avoid having any), but the list shows one anyway, that's
probably where it is.

- Bill

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In message <ajp801t0ngvi1ib5r2cjacnnpm20g3dhjl@4ax.com> Zombie Elvis
<DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote:

>> Can you all tell me what powered USB Hubs that you use?
>>
>None. They're more trouble than they're worth.

What do you use?


--
I know what "Cheese" is, and I know what "Whiz" is...

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On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 02:05:40 -0500, Bill Leary wrote:

[snip]

> Your observation is a good one, and given the device list he showed us I think
> you're correct. If he says he's got no hubs (which I thought he said he put in
> the PCI cards to avoid having any), but the list shows one anyway, that's
> probably where it is.

Every once in a while, I happen to think logically.

--
Derek

The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly.

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"Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote in
news:B_6dnYiHd96r8JnfRVn-3A@giganews.com:

> I'm pretty sure the Zire 71 does not. While the documentation for the
> Tungsten E describes USB charging, giving performance comparisons to
> power supply charging, the Zire 71 makes no mention at all of this
> capability. In the charging trouble shooting section the requirement
> that the power supply be connected is explicit. Just to be sure, I've
> just done a search through the PDFs for the Zire 71 handbook and
> there's nothing about USB charging.

I used a Zire 71 for a couple of years, and it charges from the USB. I
know because I almost never use a cradle. I charge it off a laptop, with
only USB, no wall wart at all, and it charges just fine. I haven't found
any Palm model that won't charge through a USB connection.

--
Regards,

Stan

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Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in news:1r4wtkvea5daw$.dlg@gwinn.us:

> It would seem to me that whether or not a Palm will charge through USB
> is an issue of the cable, not the handheld.
>
True. If the USB port is powered, and the cable is wired correctly, the
Palm will charge. But if the cable isn't wired correctly, then no
voltage can reach the proper pins. No surprise there. But the Palm will
certainly charge if the voltage reaches the proper pins, whether the
voltage comes from a wall wart or a USB port. The Zire 71 can't tell the
difference, because it uses the universal connector for everything.

--
Regards,

Stan

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"Stan Gosnell" <murkuhn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95F4B6DB0B1E3mework@204.52.135.8...
> "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote in
> news:B_6dnYiHd96r8JnfRVn-3A@giganews.com:
>
> > I'm pretty sure the Zire 71 does not. While the documentation for the
> > ((..omitted..))
>
> I used a Zire 71 for a couple of years, and it charges from the USB. I
> know because I almost never use a cradle. I charge it off a laptop, with
> only USB, no wall wart at all, and it charges just fine. I haven't found
> any Palm model that won't charge through a USB connection.

Very interesting.
They say you learn something new every day. I was wondering what today's item
would be, and there it is.

Thanks.

- Bill

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I have very recently bought a T5 and connect it via a powered usb2 hub, so
far - no problem
Alan

"Phyber Quest" <phyberquest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BE27B8B4.EBDC%phyberquest@yahoo.com...
> Do NOT use the new palm cables with the USB hubs that are powered.
>
> The new cables to sync your palm with seems to be weak and will fry your
PDA
> if connected to a powered USB.
>
> But for older palms that have the big cradles, no problems seems to
happen.
>
> I know it fried a T5 with the cable it came with and a Clie NR70 (with a
> belkin cable).
>
> Any of you know why?
>
> Thanks ahead for your response.
>
> Cheers,
> PQ
>
>