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[Crawl] Some advidce requested (and sorry for the bragging)

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Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:11:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

At first the bragging (sorry again):
Actually I'm making some progress, my current DEIE is my first level 17
char, the first time I reached the bottom of the Snake Pits (still w/o
any source of res_poison) and got my very first Rune (Serpentine). Not a
big deal for most of you, but for me, as a very slow player and learner,
it's a big success! And now: applause, please ;-)

Meanwhile I think I could need some advice on my skill organization (and
some other things). I'm pretty much groping in the dark here. Here is a
char dump with skills and equipment, to get a picture how I'm playing
this one:

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

/* this is where I found the serpentine rune.
/* a (lesser?) vault, right?

#..<...)..)).................
############)###############.
#####....###### #.
######...)....).)..#### #.
###....#.............#..### #.
##...:..#.............#....# #.
#.......#....#...))#..#....## #.
#.......#.............##....# #.
##.......##.)#.)@.....##.....# #.
#.....#...##....}..)###......###.
#........).#........)#.)..)...##.
#........#).))#/)..))).#......##.
#..............)#.))..........##.
#..#..........))..).#..)....#.##.
....##..........)......./...##.##.
....##.................)....##.##.
....##.......#..))..........##.###

TicMuna the Destroyer (Deep Elf)
(Level 17 Ice Elementalist)

Play time: 15:30:25 Number of turns: 50257

Experience : 17/208681
Strength 8 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 26
Hit Points : 74 Magic Points : 47
AC : 17 Evasion : 13 Shield : 0
^^^^^^^
/* AC is currently not as high as it could be.
/* right now I'm testing my now staff of energy
/* but I think I don't need it since I have a
/* huge stash of honeycombs and royal jellies.

GP : 853

You are in the Snake Pit.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +5,+4 quarterstaff of protection
/* this is my main weapon

c - a +0 scimitar of flaming
/* this my somewhat expensive desecting device ;-)

Armour
g - a +4 robe of fire resistance (worn)
/* also have a +2 robe of magic resistance. Are there any
/* reasons or places where I should use the latter instead?

p - a +2 cloak (worn)
t - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
/* later I'll ask about stealth. please take this boots into acount.

C - a +2 visored helmet (worn)
O - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)

Magical devices
d - a wand of fireball (10)
f - a wand of teleportation
k - a wand of disintegration (4)
q - a wand of magic darts
/* newly auto-pickuped, just forgot to drop

w - a wand of draining
B - a wand of digging (1)
F - a wand of fireball
K - a wand of enslavement (4)
V - a wand of paralysis
Comestibles
e - a honeycomb
o - a royal jelly
s - a bread ration
Scrolls
h - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
j - 6 scrolls of blinking
/* didn't need any for a long time now, but
/* paranoids like me never can carry enough of them

y - 5 scrolls of teleportation
/* same here. blink and teleport are some kind of one unit to me.

P - 4 scrolls of remove curse
Z - 4 scrolls of detect curse

Jewellery
i - an amulet of resist corrosion
/* I'm not sure whether and where I better should
/* use this one instead of the conservation.

u - an uncursed ring of teleport control
x - a ring of see invisible
z - a ring of magical power (left hand)
A - a +4 ring of strength
/* I'm only using this for transport actions like
/* carrying all the comestibles out of the Hive.

D - an amulet of controlled flight
/* don't know what to do with this right now, but I guess
/* it could become handy later, in zot-trap scattered areas.

E - a ring of levitation
J - a ring of ice (right hand)
/* probably don't need it any more, if it only effects spell failure
/* rate. If it powers up my ice-spells too, I won't drop it.

Q - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
/* see 'i'

X - an uncursed ring of sustenance
/* will I ever become short on food again?

Potions
l - a potion of levitation
r - 2 potions of healing
G - 6 potions of heal wounds
L - a potion of mutation
M - 2 potions of invisibility
R - a potion of speed
U - 2 potions of restore abilities
Magical staves
b - a staff of wizardry
/* sometimes it _feels_ like it would power up my spells.
/* the difference isn't that much, so I'm still unsure.

m - a staff of energy (weapon)

Miscellaneous
v - a serpentine rune of Zot
/* my very first rune! :-)

You have 13 experience left.

Skills:
- Level 1 Short Blades
+ Level 3 Staves
- Level 7 Dodging
/* I hope this is enough for now.

+ Level 6 Stealth
/* I have no idea how much stealth is useful.
/* I was planning to switch it off when at 7,
/* but it didn't grow up for some time now...

+ Level 13 Spellcasting
+ Level 19 Conjurations
/* and here's the main reason for that post
/* besides the bragging, of course ;-)
/* how do those "meta-skills" relate to the elemental skills?
/* or in my case: what is more important, Spellcasting/Conjurations
/* or Ice Magic?

+ Level 4 Enchantments
/* should I better witch it off?

+ Level 1 Summonings
+ Level 16 Ice Magic
+ Level 3 Air Magic
+ Level 4 Evocations



You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Freeze Ice Perfect 1
b - Throw Frost Ice/Conjuration Perfect 2
c - Ozocubu's Armour Ice/Enchantment Perfect 3
d - Ice Bolt Ice/Conjuration Perfect 4
/* this is my *real* main weapon (not the staff, of course).
/* but I'm afraid of cold resistance monsters I'll surely meet soon or
/* later, that's why I'm also investigating in Earth and Air schools.
/* does it make sense or is it too much already and should I better
/* concentrate on one second school only, Earth _or_ Air?

e - Shock Air/Conjuration Excellent 1
f - Swiftness Air/Enchantment Great 2
g - Mephitic Cloud Poison/Air/Conjuration Great 3
h - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Great 2
i - Static Discharge Air/Conjuration Excellent 4
j - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning Excellent 5
k - Levitation Air/Enchantment Great 2
l - Bolt of Iron Earth/Conjuration Very Good 6

TIA,
Rubinstein
December 13, 2004 7:30:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> Armour
> g - a +4 robe of fire resistance (worn)
> /* also have a +2 robe of magic resistance. Are there any
> /* reasons or places where I should use the latter instead?

ermmmm. it is quite useful, but magic resistance is one of the less
important resistances. i'd hang on to what you've got - particularly to
cover your vulnerability to fire from the ice ring.

> i - an amulet of resist corrosion
> /* I'm not sure whether and where I better should
> /* use this one instead of the conservation.

to be honest, i've never got much mileage out of either of them, except
for corrosion in the slime pits.

> u - an uncursed ring of teleport control
> x - a ring of see invisible
> z - a ring of magical power (left hand)

you're well powerful enough to ditch this now. once above 50MP you start
to get diminishing returns.

> J - a ring of ice (right hand)
> /* probably don't need it any more, if it only effects spell failure
> /* rate. If it powers up my ice-spells too, I won't drop it.

oh, yes. it increases your spell power, which means fewer miscasts, more
damage *and* less hunger from spellcasting. beware the fire
vulnerability, though.

> X - an uncursed ring of sustenance
> /* will I ever become short on food again?

after the hive? doubtful unless you're really profligate!

> Magical staves
> b - a staff of wizardry
> /* sometimes it _feels_ like it would power up my spells.
> /* the difference isn't that much, so I'm still unsure.

it improves your power, but much less than another something like a
staff of conjuration or ring of ice would. as against that, it works for
everything. i like to keep one around for casting spells from secondary
schools, weapons a quick to swap, even in combat.

> m - a staff of energy (weapon)

never got much value from this. useful for faffing about without using
too much food, i suppose

if you get a scroll of acquirement, consider acquiring a staff of
conjuration. that'll give you more help for your blasty spells.

> Miscellaneous
> v - a serpentine rune of Zot
> /* my very first rune! :-)

yay!

> + Level 13 Spellcasting
> + Level 19 Conjurations
> /* and here's the main reason for that post
> /* besides the bragging, of course ;-)
> /* how do those "meta-skills" relate to the elemental skills?
> /* or in my case: what is more important, Spellcasting/Conjurations
> /* or Ice Magic?

spellcasting skill is special as it affects everything. it increases
quite slowly, and there's no real reason to turn it off.

in the case of the other spellcasting skills, you average all the
applicable skills for a given spell. so generally you'll get more bang
for your buck by improving the lowest of a set of skills.

one other reason is when using acquirement - if you choose book or staff
ou tend to get something relating to your highest casting skill.

> + Level 4 Enchantments
> /* should I better witch it off?

no reason to. it's not as if it's hoovering up all your xp. and it's a
useful thing have generally.

> You have 7 spell levels left.
> You know the following spells:

has vehumet started dropping books on you yet? you'd enjoy ice storm, i
guarantee it :) 

> Your Spells Type Success Level
> a - Freeze Ice Perfect 1
> b - Throw Frost Ice/Conjuration Perfect 2
> c - Ozocubu's Armour Ice/Enchantment Perfect 3
> d - Ice Bolt Ice/Conjuration Perfect 4
> /* this is my *real* main weapon (not the staff, of course).
> /* but I'm afraid of cold resistance monsters I'll surely meet soon or
> /* later, that's why I'm also investigating in Earth and Air schools.
> /* does it make sense or is it too much already and should I better
> /* concentrate on one second school only, Earth _or_ Air?

the offensive air spells are very bad. as against that, air has deflect
missiles, which is a supremely handy spell.

i wouldn't worry about it too much, to be honest. you can already cast
bolt of iron as well as you need to to deal with most resistant monsters.
earth does give you magic mapping & dig, which are good utility
spells (though perfectly easy to live without).

also, don't ignore summoning. it's a very mana-cheap way of killing less
threatening monsters (especially with vehumet's mana cashback policy),
which will let you save mana for your big guns.



wherever you plan to go next, good luck :) 

--
ru
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:44:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:11:33 PM bork 12/13/2004 bork bork:

> At first the bragging (sorry again):
> Actually I'm making some progress, my current DEIE is my first level 17
> char, the first time I reached the bottom of the Snake Pits (still w/o
> any source of res_poison) and got my very first Rune (Serpentine). Not a
> big deal for most of you, but for me, as a very slow player and learner,
> it's a big success! And now: applause, please ;-)

APPLAUSE!

> Meanwhile I think I could need some advice on my skill organization (and
> some other things). I'm pretty much groping in the dark here. Here is a
> char dump with skills and equipment, to get a picture how I'm playing
> this one:
>
> Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
>
> /* this is where I found the serpentine rune.
> /* a (lesser?) vault, right?

AFAICT the bottom of the Pits is a combination of a fixed section (maybe
picked out of a group of templates for this section, maybe just one template)
and a normal random level.

[...]

> TicMuna the Destroyer (Deep Elf)
> (Level 17 Ice Elementalist)
>
> Play time: 15:30:25 Number of turns: 50257
>
> Experience : 17/208681
> Strength 8 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 26
> Hit Points : 74 Magic Points : 47
> AC : 17 Evasion : 13 Shield : 0
> ^^^^^^^
> /* AC is currently not as high as it could be.
> /* right now I'm testing my now staff of energy
> /* but I think I don't need it since I have a
> /* huge stash of honeycombs and royal jellies.

IMO in most situations a staff of energy is not all that useful -- actual
damage from monsters is a much greater threat than starvation, and in any
case, staves of any-attack-magic-skill-you-use-a-lot will probably save you
just as much food just by reducing the castings you need to do your work.

BTW here's a light, short, leave-some-things-unspoiled introduction to spell
hungering. With one optional semi-brutal spoiler.

* Base hungering from spellcasting starts (with level 1 spells) at about the
level of a grape and ends at about 1/5th the level of a ration.
* <ROT13>Lbh ner cebgrpgrq sebz uhatrevat ol gur cebqhpg bs lbhe vagryyvtrapr
naq lbhe fcryypnfgvat fxvyy.</ROT13>
* Considering the ROT13'd bit above and the concrete spell-hungering numbers,
and assuming your mainline spells are what mine have been when conjuring with
ice, **80+% of your spellcasting is either not hungering you at all or
hungering you for less nutrition than you'd get from a grape**. Actually,
even less than you'd get from drinking a potion.

> You are in the Snake Pit.
> You worship Vehumet.

He's da bomb.

[...]

> Inventory:
> Hand weapons
> a - a +5,+4 quarterstaff of protection
> /* this is my main weapon

It's a good choice for a weapon prior to your first relevant magical staff,
but once the first such staff comes along (\oEnergy doesn't count here), you
should shed a tear and lay it aside.

> c - a +0 scimitar of flaming
> /* this my somewhat expensive desecting device ;-)

Don't be modest, soon you may well have an artifact dissecting device, if
you're like me... (not something guaranteed, just the law of averages and
good inventory management at work...)

> Armour
> g - a +4 robe of fire resistance (worn)
> /* also have a +2 robe of magic resistance. Are there any
> /* reasons or places where I should use the latter instead?

Well... at the risk of being too spoily:

Your magic resistance is (racial resistance + bonuses) times your level. If
your racial resistance is high, the overall meaning of any bonuses is thus
low. I'll let you guess the rest yourself...

....but in short, short of encountering a horde of paralyzers (something I've
never seen, but surely could exist), I'd go with the fire resistance, even if
the bonuses were equal. And ESPECIALLY since you'll be wanting to wear a ring
of ice once you find one -- DEs' low HP + elemental susceptibility = a quick
death to the first really dangerous fireflinger you meet.

> p - a +2 cloak (worn)
> t - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
> /* later I'll ask about stealth. please take this boots into acount.

[...]

> q - a wand of magic darts
> /* newly auto-pickuped, just forgot to drop

Actually not bad for training Evocations so you get a bit more punch out of
the wands you really need when you use those. It's an experience drain, but
since your Evocations is low, raising it doesn't take all that much
experience, so it's not too bad.

> h - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
> j - 6 scrolls of blinking
> /* didn't need any for a long time now, but
> /* paranoids like me never can carry enough of them

Paranoids like me never can stash enough of them... 1 of blinking plus
perhaps 1 of teleportation solves most problems, and then you go back to the
stash to restock... or you wear an amulet of conservation.

I'd leave magic mapping in the stash too, and only pull it out when needed,
but then I've been spoiled a lot lately by games where I was blessed with an
"otG, which distorts that equation a little...

> Jewellery
> i - an amulet of resist corrosion
> /* I'm not sure whether and where I better should
> /* use this one instead of the conservation.

Basically worthless wherever jellylikes are not involved.
RC - prevents damage from corrosion (basically: from jellylikes)
Con - prevents damage from fire and cold, i.e. destruction of scrolls and
potions.

> u - an uncursed ring of teleport control
> x - a ring of see invisible
> z - a ring of magical power (left hand)
> A - a +4 ring of strength
> /* I'm only using this for transport actions like
> /* carrying all the comestibles out of the Hive.

AFAIU levitation will help more strongly with this, although you won't be
able to pick anything up while levitating unless you're wearing the "oCF.

> D - an amulet of controlled flight
> /* don't know what to do with this right now, but I guess
> /* it could become handy later, in zot-trap scattered areas.
> E - a ring of levitation

You might (or might not) find these handy in the (bottom of the) Hive itself;
the bees are not as dumb as they look, so to get the most out of your
friendly visit, you'll need to react fluidly. Dig? ;-)

> J - a ring of ice (right hand)
> /* probably don't need it any more, if it only effects spell failure
> /* rate. If it powers up my ice-spells too, I won't drop it.

Four words: it's a power multiplier.

(This is why a stave is a conjurer's common first acquirement...)

> X - an uncursed ring of sustenance
> /* will I ever become short on food again?

IME, no, unless:

1) you are like me and just HAVE to try out every uncursed weapon you can
use, and a few you can't, or
2) you let someone capable of casting you into the Abyss survive long enough
to do so, or
3) you enter a labyrinth, or
4) you enter Pandemonium, or
5) a mutation limits your diet.

> b - a staff of wizardry
> /* sometimes it feels like it would power up my spells.
> /* the difference isn't that much, so I'm still unsure.

Here I'm not sure offhand. Maybe power, maybe just miscast prevention. In any
case, the important thing is once again four words:

It's a something-additive. (Or five words: It's a *mere*
something-additive... although for a weak spellcaster, an additive is
actually better than a multiplier.)

> Miscellaneous
> v - a serpentine rune of Zot
> /* my very first rune! :-)

HOORAAAAAAAAAY!!

[...]

> - Level 7 Dodging
> /* I hope this is enough for now.

I'm a big fan of evasion, myself.

>
> + Level 6 Stealth
> /* I have no idea how much stealth is useful.
> /* I was planning to switch it off when at 7,
> /* but it didn't grow up for some time now...

Stealth is the difference between "Yaktaur, you, yaktaur, you, yaktaur, you"
and "You, yaktaur, you, yaktaur, you, yaktaur." :-) How important that
difference is is a matter of debate, and I'm still not decided myself.

> + Level 13 Spellcasting
> + Level 19 Conjurations
> /* and here's the main reason for that post
> /* besides the bragging, of course ;-)
> /* how do those "meta-skills" relate to the elemental skills?

There's nothing "meta" about conjurations, actually. But spellcasting is
indeed a "meta" skill, and affects:
- SP
- hungering
- available spell levels
- spellcasting. ;-)

Its effect on spellcasting is weak, but is present no matter what spell
you're trying to cast, which is why an expert at Spellcasting can start
developing a new field without great embarrassments even when casting level
2, 3, or even higher spells.

The remaining magic skills are all applied in the same way, whenever their
name shows up in the list of skills involved in a spell ("Conjuration/Ice,"
uses Conjuration and Ice; "Transmigration/Summoning" uses Transmigration and
Summoning, and so on. Conjuration *feels* "meta" because it's used mainly in
combination with other skills, but strictly in terms of mechanics, it's
treated the same as all magic skills except Spellcasting.

Such skills play a role both in the miscast calculations (where intelligence
and spellcasting also play an important part) and the power calculations
(where I'm not so sure about spellcasting and intelligence; I could look it
up, but I don't think you want to be TOO spoiled anyway). When multiple
skills are involved, their average is used. Just to name a random example
;-), an ice conjurer with Conjurations 20 casting a conjuration/earth spell
would have a quite respectable level of 10 ((20+0)/2) even with no Earth
skill...

> /* or in my case: what is more important, Spellcasting/Conjurations
> /* or Ice Magic?

Conjurations.

Three words: Lehudib's Crystal Spear.

> + Level 4 Enchantments
> /* should I better witch it off?

Haste rocks... but only once you get Enchantments up to about 7...

[...]

> Your Spells Type Success Level
> a - Freeze Ice Perfect 1
> b - Throw Frost Ice/Conjuration Perfect 2
> c - Ozocubu's Armour Ice/Enchantment Perfect 3
> d - Ice Bolt Ice/Conjuration Perfect 4
> /* this is my real main weapon (not the staff, of course).
> /* but I'm afraid of cold resistance monsters I'll surely meet soon or
> /* later, that's why I'm also investigating in Earth and Air schools.

The various elements don't tend to play well together, and especially the
oppposing ones. They don't hurt the EFFICIENCY of your learning, thankfully,
but fire skill, for example, stubbornly refuses to "breathe in" experience
points most of the time if your ice skill is higher.

> /* does it make sense or is it too much already and should I better
> /* concentrate on one second school only, Earth or Air?

Earth. Your air skill is still low, so it won't take too long for Earth to go
over the hump (though things will be frustrating for a while until it does).
The unresistable nature of Earth spells is simply fantastic; there are
eventually many monsters that are immune to anything a Vehumet-lover can
issue except pure-conjurations (a bit weak -- I speak from experience),
summonings (which you haven't developed), rods and wands (ditto, I think...
too lazy to check), fighting (not too smart for a deep elf)... and earth
magic.

Don't worry; you won't regret the bit of Air you've gained -- Deflect
Missiles is a wonderful spell.


Erik
Related resources
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 10:22:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

ru wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:
>> Armour g - a +4 robe of fire resistance (worn)
>> /* also have a +2 robe of magic resistance. Are there any
>> /* reasons or places where I should use the latter instead?
>
> ermmmm. it is quite useful, but magic resistance is one of the less
> important resistances.

Really? I thought it's the only protection against 'smite' attacks.
Though I understand that and why the +4 robe of fire resistance may be
the better choice for now...

>> z - a ring of magical power (left hand)
>
> you're well powerful enough to ditch this now. once above 50MP you
> start to get diminishing returns.

Though I understand (and agree) with most of your advices, this one is
hard to swallow. Even with that ring I'm below the 50th and w/o below
40. Sometimes I have to swap in my =oSeeInvis. In this case I missed
the =oMP more often then not, particularly when fighting several
monsters at once (which I always try to prevent, but sometimes it's just
impossible).

>> J - a ring of ice (right hand)
>> /* probably don't need it any more, if it only effects spell failure
>> /* rate. If it powers up my ice-spells too, I won't drop it.
>
> oh, yes. it increases your spell power, which means fewer miscasts,
> more damage *and* less hunger from spellcasting. beware the fire
> vulnerability, though.

Good to know, I wasn't quite sure about it...

>> X - an uncursed ring of sustenance /* will I ever become short on
>> food again?
>
> after the hive? doubtful unless you're really profligate!

I'm currently training Earth skill (pretty low yet). A good lecture to
learn how spellcasting affects hunger (w/o reading the spoilers).

>> Magical staves
>> b - a staff of wizardry
>> /* sometimes it _feels_ like it would power up my spells.
>> /* the difference isn't that much, so I'm still unsure.
>
> it improves your power, but much less than another something like a
> staff of conjuration or ring of ice would. as against that, it works for
> everything. i like to keep one around for casting spells from secondary
> schools, weapons a quick to swap, even in combat.

Good idea, I'm currently using a staff of cold, which seems to be the
proper choice for my main school. And the staff of wizardry could be
useful to increase my Earth skill.

>> You have 7 spell levels left.
>> You know the following spells:
>
> has vehumet started dropping books on you yet? you'd enjoy ice storm, i
> guarantee it :) 

Yes, I have the book (stashed), but this is a level 9 spell!
Unfortunately I made the mistake to learn Lee's Rapid Deconstruction and
now I not only have 2 spell levels left, I also *have* to increase Earth
skill unless I won't accept the entirely waste of this decision.

>> [snip Spells]
> also, don't ignore summoning. it's a very mana-cheap way of killing
> less threatening monsters (especially with vehumet's mana cashback
> policy), which will let you save mana for your big guns.

Actually I wished I were a summoner, my next char probably will be a
demonologist... As I mentioned above I just decided (or better:"have
to") to increase my Earth skill, wouldn't also train summoning a little
bit too much?

> wherever you plan to go next, good luck :) 

I just came from the Halls level 6 with something like a vault, full of
dangerous demonologists. They were able to summon level 1 Demons: A
Shadow Fiend and a Balrug (somewhat out of depth, I guess) scared me to
no end, particularly the first one almost killed me with one single
"gesture" (...calls on the powers of Hell). Fortunately I had 2
?oTeleport in my pack, otherwise I would be history now. I decided to
continue exploring the swamp now, I'm close to clvl 18 and I really want
to reach that level before I die...

Thanks a lot,
Rubinstein
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 11:10:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:11:33 PM bork 12/13/2004 bork bork:
>
>> Inventory:
>> Hand weapons
>> a - a +5,+4 quarterstaff of protection
>> /* this is my main weapon
>
> It's a good choice for a weapon prior to your first relevant magical
> staff, but once the first such staff comes along (\oEnergy doesn't
> count here), you should shed a tear and lay it aside.

Actually I had to shed several tears since I really got a hang on it.
I'm wielding a staff of cold now, but mind you: if TicMuna dies it's
*your* fault! ;-)

>> Armour
>> g - a +4 robe of fire resistance (worn)
>> /* also have a +2 robe of magic resistance. Are there any
>> /* reasons or places where I should use the latter instead?
>
> Well... at the risk of being too spoily:
>
> Your magic resistance is (racial resistance + bonuses) times your
> level. If your racial resistance is high, the overall meaning of any
> bonuses is thus low. I'll let you guess the rest yourself...

Didn't got it when answering a comment of ru, who shortens this a bit
as in "magic resistance is less important". But know I understand what
he means...

>> p - a +2 cloak (worn)
>> t - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
>> /* later I'll ask about stealth. please take this boots into acount.
>
> [...]
>
>> q - a wand of magic darts
>> /* newly auto-pickuped, just forgot to drop

> Actually not bad for training Evocations so you get a bit more punch
> out of the wands you really need when you use those. It's an
> experience drain, but since your Evocations is low, raising it doesn't
> take all that much experience, so it's not too bad.

Got the point. But too many wands in my pack are simply too heavy and I
have to set priorities. A wand of magic darts surely isn't one of the
most important toys...

>> h - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
>> j - 6 scrolls of blinking
>> /* didn't need any for a long time now, but
>> /* paranoids like me never can carry enough of them
>
> Paranoids like me never can stash enough of them... 1 of blinking plus
> perhaps 1 of teleportation solves most problems, and then you go back
> to the stash to restock... or you wear an amulet of conservation.

Agreed, 6 scrolls of blinking are surely too much. But just one pair of
blink/teleport would have killed me (see my recent answer to ru).

>> u - an uncursed ring of teleport control
>> x - a ring of see invisible
>> z - a ring of magical power (left hand)
>> A - a +4 ring of strength
>> /* I'm only using this for transport actions like
>> /* carrying all the comestibles out of the Hive.
>
> AFAIU levitation will help more strongly with this, although you won't
> be able to pick anything up while levitating unless you're wearing the
> "oCF.

I never used levitation for a long time yet. Are there any side-effects
from doing so (like burning more nutrition)? And does the levitation
time out or lasting as long as I wear the ring?

>> D - an amulet of controlled flight
>> /* don't know what to do with this right now, but I guess
>> /* it could become handy later, in zot-trap scattered areas.
>> E - a ring of levitation
>
> You might (or might not) find these handy in the (bottom of the) Hive
> itself; the bees are not as dumb as they look, so to get the most out
> of your friendly visit, you'll need to react fluidly. Dig? ;-)

I'm not quite sure. Do you mean I'm moving more swiftly (like an
increased DEX) when levitating?

>> X - an uncursed ring of sustenance
>> /* will I ever become short on food again?
>
> IME, no, unless:
>
> 1) you are like me and just HAVE to try out every uncursed weapon you
> can use, and a few you can't, or
> 2) you let someone capable of casting
> you into the Abyss survive long enough to do so, or
> 3) you enter a labyrinth, or
> 4) you enter Pandemonium, or
> 5) a mutation limits your diet.

Rings are not that heavy and unless I'm running into some serious
problems with too few inventory slots and since I never know when I'll
end up in the Abyss I'll better keep it in my pack.

>> + Level 6 Stealth
>> /* I have no idea how much stealth is useful.
>> /* I was planning to switch it off when at 7,
>> /* but it didn't grow up for some time now...
>
> Stealth is the difference between "Yaktaur, you, yaktaur, you,
> yaktaur, you" and "You, yaktaur, you, yaktaur, you, yaktaur." :-) How
> important that difference is is a matter of debate, and I'm still not
> decided myself.

Or "you, dead (weak) summoner, no more summoner" and "summoner summons
some nasty Demons, you, endless fighting (escaping) of the Demons, weak
summoner survives since his creatures are in LOS". I'm quite sure you
know what I mean... ;-)

Other aspects are already covered in my recent answer to ru. Thanks for
all hints and advice (I just skipped all parts were I only would answer
"ah, understand" or "agree").

Rubinstein
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 3:06:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
>> bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:11:33 PM bork 12/13/2004 bork bork:
> [...]
> I never used levitation for a long time yet. Are there any
> side-effects from doing so (like burning more nutrition)? And does the
> levitation time out or lasting as long as I wear the ring?

Before both questions sound too stupid: what I meant was 'whether it
_constantly_ consumes nutrition'. I answered the second part to myself
already, and since it doesn't last very long, the first part seems
somewhat obsolete now. Just don't answer.

Rubinstein
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 12:31:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:

> > A wand of magic darts surely isn't one of the
> > most important toys...
>
> Well, yes and no (or I suppose "no and yes"). Unless you have a rod
of some
> sort or some safe and permanetly reusable "}" item, you're using up
some sort
> of charges every time you go to train evocations.

I don't think permanently reusable } train your evocations. Or at
least it doesn't seem like it to me.

Activating abilities from rings, artifacts, levitation boots, etc.
does, at the cost of food.

> I also form only one major stash and form it quite late (the entrance
to the
> Lair), because I hate the complication of multiple major stashes, and
of course
> the complication of monsters that can pick items up as well. (Animals
can't,
> so...)

Hey, me too. I figured everybody but me used the Temple.
--
Jeremey
December 17, 2004 1:21:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Well... at the risk of being too spoily:
>
> Your magic resistance is (racial resistance + bonuses) times your level. If
> your racial resistance is high, the overall meaning of any bonuses is thus
> low. I'll let you guess the rest yourself...

Erratum: ((racial resistance) times (your level)) + bonuses
:-)
--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
December 17, 2004 1:29:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> ru wrote:
>> Rubinstein wrote:
>>> z - a ring of magical power (left hand)
>>
>> you're well powerful enough to ditch this now. once above 50MP you
>> start to get diminishing returns.
>
> Though I understand (and agree) with most of your advices, this one is
> hard to swallow. Even with that ring I'm below the 50th and w/o below
> 40. Sometimes I have to swap in my =oSeeInvis. In this case I missed
> the =oMP more often then not, particularly when fighting several
> monsters at once (which I always try to prevent, but sometimes it's just
> impossible).

have you tried vehumet's channel energy ability?

>> has vehumet started dropping books on you yet? you'd enjoy ice storm, i
>> guarantee it :) 
>
> Yes, I have the book (stashed), but this is a level 9 spell!

you'll be able to cast it fine. just go easy on it or it will make you
hungry. cast it when there are lots of corpses around to refuel with.

> Unfortunately I made the mistake to learn Lee's Rapid Deconstruction and
> now I not only have 2 spell levels left, I also *have* to increase Earth
> skill unless I won't accept the entirely waste of this decision.

keep an eye out for a Book of Practical Magic. Selective Amnesia will be
your friend.

>>> [snip Spells]
>> also, don't ignore summoning. it's a very mana-cheap way of killing
>> less threatening monsters (especially with vehumet's mana cashback
>> policy), which will let you save mana for your big guns.
>
> Actually I wished I were a summoner, my next char probably will be a
> demonologist... As I mentioned above I just decided (or better:"have
> to") to increase my Earth skill, wouldn't also train summoning a little
> bit too much?

you've got ice beasts, which shouldn't be underestimated, and you can
cast it easily with you current summoning skill.
you can also fling cold spells around in their vicinity without worry.

--
ru
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 8:15:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:

[...]

> >> q - a wand of magic darts
> >> /* newly auto-pickuped, just forgot to drop
>
> > Actually not bad for training Evocations so you get a bit more punch
> > out of the wands you really need when you use those. It's an
> > experience drain, but since your Evocations is low, raising it doesn't
> > take all that much experience, so it's not too bad.
>
> Got the point. But too many wands in my pack are simply too heavy and I
> have to set priorities. A wand of magic darts surely isn't one of the
> most important toys...

Well, yes and no (or I suppose "no and yes"). Unless you have a rod of some
sort or some safe and permanetly reusable "}" item, you're using up some sort
of charges every time you go to train evocations. Better that those be charges
on a wand of magic darts (or better yet the wands that are resistable, as IME
these are even more useless than magic darts; the things powerful enough to
justify using them tend to resist them too long for them to help, barring of
course tricks like paralyzing a monster with weak magic resistance in a
corridor so you can use Conjure Flame, Mephitic Cloud, etc. to keep a strong
monster behind it from getting next to you after you kill it).

> >> h - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
> >> j - 6 scrolls of blinking
> >> /* didn't need any for a long time now, but
> >> /* paranoids like me never can carry enough of them
> >
> > Paranoids like me never can stash enough of them... 1 of blinking plus
> > perhaps 1 of teleportation solves most problems, and then you go back
> > to the stash to restock... or you wear an amulet of conservation.
>
> Agreed, 6 scrolls of blinking are surely too much. But just one pair of
> blink/teleport would have killed me (see my recent answer to ru).

I'll confess, I actually tend to leave not one, but two of each after visiting
my stash, partly for that reason and partly to avoid the situation where I lose
my only scroll of foo to fire and don't notice it.

I also form only one major stash and form it quite late (the entrance to the
Lair), because I hate the complication of multiple major stashes, and of course
the complication of monsters that can pick items up as well. (Animals can't,
so...)

> >> u - an uncursed ring of teleport control
> >> x - a ring of see invisible
> >> z - a ring of magical power (left hand)
> >> A - a +4 ring of strength
> >> /* I'm only using this for transport actions like
> >> /* carrying all the comestibles out of the Hive.
> >
> > AFAIU levitation will help more strongly with this, although you won't
> > be able to pick anything up while levitating unless you're wearing the
> > "oCF.
>
> I never used levitation for a long time yet. Are there any side-effects
> from doing so (like burning more nutrition)? And does the levitation
> time out or lasting as long as I wear the ring?

'fraid I can't help here. What I can tell you is that without controlled
flight, levitation is fairly useless when you're covering new ground and
discovering new items. (You also can't take stairs downwards, so it's also
useless when reaching your stash involves any such stairs.) When all I have are
potions, I tend to save them for special situations, and then forget to use
them. :-) They're good if you get caught with your pants down (overloaded)
while hauling junk to a junkpile--when a ranged attacker is pounding at you or
whatever, spending a single turn to get unburdened instead of several can be a
lifesaver.

Oh, here we go. Ye foode spoiler makes no mention of levitation among the 18
influences on food consumption it lists. (Weird fact of the day: demigods have
slightly heightened food consumption.) (Weird and totally irrelevant fact of
the month: due to a bug, all characters start out steam resistant, and wearing
steam dragon armor removes their resistance.)

As far as I know, the ring just lets you start and stop levitating at will. Not
bad... if you had three or four ring fingers. ;-) I've never been impressed
enough to even wear such rings in the Swamp, where they are most useful; if I
ever do wear one, it will be there.

> >> D - an amulet of controlled flight
> >> /* don't know what to do with this right now, but I guess
> >> /* it could become handy later, in zot-trap scattered areas.
> >> E - a ring of levitation
> >
> > You might (or might not) find these handy in the (bottom of the) Hive
> > itself; the bees are not as dumb as they look, so to get the most out
> > of your friendly visit, you'll need to react fluidly. Dig? ;-)
>
> I'm not quite sure. Do you mean I'm moving more swiftly (like an
> increased DEX) when levitating?

[I consult with Melody Sunshine, the hippie fortune teller:] I see a minor
enrichment in your future, maaaaan. Get a buzz on again, then take the path of
stone or the path of water, but be prepared to dig the undiggable, maaaaaan. Or
like get some insight and be all controlled, and stuff. If you like, jump into
that kinda uptight control stuff.[/consultation]

Otherwise: I've noticed no increase in movement speed (unless moving over
shallow water) when levitating.

> >> X - an uncursed ring of sustenance
> >> /* will I ever become short on food again?
> >
> > IME, no, unless:
> >
> > 1) you are like me and just HAVE to try out every uncursed weapon you
> > can use, and a few you can't, or
> > 2) you let someone capable of casting
> > you into the Abyss survive long enough to do so, or
> > 3) you enter a labyrinth, or
> > 4) you enter Pandemonium, or
> > 5) a mutation limits your diet.
>
> Rings are not that heavy and unless I'm running into some serious
> problems with too few inventory slots and since I never know when I'll
> end up in the Abyss I'll better keep it in my pack.

Actually, I do tend to have a lot of problems with slots when I'm less than
extremely strict regarding my ring collection. Give those rings a slot out of
pity and soon they'll take five, that's what I always say. (Well, sort of.)

The exception is when I'm going into a place with an unusual concentration of
things that can cast me into the Abyss, like the deeper part of the Halls, or
the Crypt. And I am able to visit my stash. And I am willing. And I remember.
And I remember the ring itself. And I'm not scrimping on slots too much.

So...

....I don't carry =oSustenance very often after reaching the Lair. ;-)

[...]

Cheers,
Erik
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:29:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:
>
>> [snip about levitation]
>
> As far as I know, the ring just lets you start and stop levitating at
> will. Not bad... if you had three or four ring fingers. ;-) I've never
> been impressed enough to even wear such rings in the Swamp, where they
> are most useful; if I ever do wear one, it will be there.

That's what I did (recently, in the Swamp). "Stop levitating at will"
seems not quite correct. It is true as long as you are still levitating:
by simply taking off the ring you stop levitating. But if you don't,
levitating will time out after a while. I wonder what happens when you
are levitating over deep water in this case...

>> >> D - an amulet of controlled flight
>> >> [..]
>> >
>> > You might (or might not) find these handy in the (bottom of the)
>> > Hive itself; the bees are not as dumb as they look, so to get the
>> > most out of your friendly visit, you'll need to react fluidly. Dig?
>> > ;-)
>>
>> I'm not quite sure. Do you mean I'm moving more swiftly (like an
>> increased DEX) when levitating?
>
> [I consult with Melody Sunshine, the hippie fortune teller:] I see a
> minor enrichment in your future, maaaaan. Get a buzz on again, then
> take the path of stone or the path of water, but be prepared to dig
> the undiggable, maaaaaan. Or like get some insight and be all
> controlled, and stuff. If you like, jump into that kinda uptight
> control stuff.[/consultation]

You throw me from one riddle into another, but still - funny!
Where does it come from? Sounds like some kind of freak comics...

> [...]
> Actually, I do tend to have a lot of problems with slots when I'm less
> than extremely strict regarding my ring collection. Give those rings a
> slot out of pity and soon they'll take five, that's what I always say.
> (Well, sort of.)

Strange, I tend to run into weight problems before slot problems show
up. Even more strange: recently, while browsing through google, I saw a
winner post from a really weak spellcaster (STR 4) with 3 books in his
pack and - unburdened! I didn't analyze the dump thoroughly enough to
see how that worked, but it still gives me a feeling of doing something
wrong...

Rubinstein
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:57:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:
>
> [Sorry to butt into your conversation, but there are some interesting
> topics here, and I'm suffering from diarrhea of the fingers...]

As long as Tina Hall isn't involved, there usually aren't any private
conversations in r.g.r.foo groups... ;-)

>> ru wrote:
>> > Rubinstein wrote:
>> >> ru wrote:
>> >>> Rubinstein wrote:
> [...]
>
>> > keep an eye out for a Book of Practical Magic. Selective Amnesia
>> > will be your friend.
>
> There's a second book that also has Selective Amnesia; it's a rather
> forgettable name, unfortunately. I do remember it's a book focused on
> enchantments.

Not _that_ forgettable, though. You were as close as one could be: It's
name is 'Book of Enchantments'. :p 
Unfortunately I've not found that book either...

Rubinstein
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 2:44:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:

> Erik Piper wrote:
> > Rubinstein wrote:
> >
> >> [snip about levitation]
> >
> > As far as I know, the ring just lets you start and stop levitating at
> > will. Not bad... if you had three or four ring fingers. ;-) I've never
> > been impressed enough to even wear such rings in the Swamp, where they
> > are most useful; if I ever do wear one, it will be there.
>
> That's what I did (recently, in the Swamp). "Stop levitating at will"
> seems not quite correct. It is true as long as you are still levitating:
> by simply taking off the ring you stop levitating. But if you don't,
> levitating will time out after a while. I wonder what happens when you
> are levitating over deep water in this case...

If it's like the potions, you get a warning message shortly before you stop
levitating. Since Darhsan's travel won't take you over deep water, it's likely
you'll be moving manually at the time, so as long as you make sure not to be
far from land after the first few turns of the effect, you should be OK.

But there are two things that puzzle me as regards levitation.

1) You only mention taking off the ring as a way to stop levitating. I don't
have a ring of levitation at hand at the moment (or a spell multiplier of any
sort, even though I'm deep in the Lair... grrr, where's my scroll of
acquirement... I have a *right* to one!), but I seem to recall that while you
are using levitation, invisibility, etc., you get a "stop foo-ing" item in your
Invocations list. Maybe that only applies for effects launched via spell,
though.

2) A really weird thing happened to me today: I started levitating at one point
using a potion, wasn't wearing an items related to levitation or flight control
AFAIR, and although I shift-5'ed until I literally starved, I never stopped
levitating until I used a "stop levitating" item that had appeared in my
Invocations list. I wonder WTF *that* was all about! One would almost believe
Crawl has bugs. No, that *can't* be it, so... ;-)

[hippie-parody puzzle-spoiler]

> You throw me from one riddle into another, but still - funny!
> Where does it come from? Sounds like some kind of freak comics...

It's typical language for parodies of hippie talk. Actually, what with my
father being a heavy pot smoker since hippie days, I can attest that there is a
little bit of realism to the language of such parodies...

> > [...]
> > Actually, I do tend to have a lot of problems with slots when I'm less
> > than extremely strict regarding my ring collection. Give those rings a
> > slot out of pity and soon they'll take five, that's what I always say.
> > (Well, sort of.)
>
> Strange, I tend to run into weight problems before slot problems show
> up.

I have weight problems all the time until I make an honest stash, but after
that, it's always an artifact weapon with resistances here, an artifact armor
with the same there, a ring or three on top, a few extra potion types,
bric-a-brac to bring to the stash, and I'm running into "you can't carry that
many items" before I know it. But then, the only weak race I play much are deep
elves, and there's not really any other increase that helps them as much as
raising STR.

[...]

Erik
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 6:13:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:
>
>> Erik Piper wrote:
>> > Rubinstein wrote:
>> >
>> >> [snip about levitation]
>> >
> But there are two things that puzzle me as regards levitation.
>
> 1) You only mention taking off the ring as a way to stop levitating. I
> don't have a ring of levitation at hand at the moment (or a spell
> multiplier of any sort, even though I'm deep in the Lair... grrr,
> where's my scroll of acquirement... I have a *right* to one!), but I
> seem to recall that while you are using levitation, invisibility,
> etc., you get a "stop foo-ing" item in your Invocations list. Maybe
> that only applies for effects launched via spell, though.

No, you're right: it's stoppable from the list. I just didn't recognize
it before since I never needed to.

> 2) A really weird thing happened to me today: I started levitating at
> one point using a potion, wasn't wearing an items related to
> levitation or flight control AFAIR, and although I shift-5'ed until I
> literally starved, I never stopped levitating until I used a "stop
> levitating" item that had appeared in my Invocations list. I wonder
> WTF *that* was all about! One would almost believe Crawl has bugs. No,
> that *can't* be it, so... ;-)

That sounds really weird, indeed. I just confirmed my former statement
about the ring, and it's true: levitation from the ring definitely times
out and the potion should do as well. Or the other way around: If one
item should *not* time out, it's the ring rather than the potion. But I
never saw this strange behavior from the potion and if it's actually a
bug, it must be a pretty rare one...

> [hippie-parody puzzle-spoiler]
>
>> You throw me from one riddle into another, but still - funny!
>> Where does it come from? Sounds like some kind of freak comics...
>
> It's typical language for parodies of hippie talk. Actually, what with
> my father being a heavy pot smoker since hippie days, I can attest
> that there is a little bit of realism to the language of such
> parodies...

So, looks like you're one of my son's generation! But though I may have
one or too things in common with your father, it's surely not the hippie
talk: as long as I can think, I'm a fashion-hater (and if your father
actually still feels like a hippie, you better don't show him this post.
Most hippies usually take themselves a little bit too serious to accept
being just a member of a *fashion*). *g*

Rubinstein
December 18, 2004 2:22:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jeremey Wilson wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:

>> I also form only one major stash and form it quite late (the entrance
>> to the Lair), because I hate the complication of multiple major
>> stashes, and of course the complication of monsters that can pick
>> items up as well. (Animals can't, so...)
>
> Hey, me too. I figured everybody but me used the Temple.

i use the lair as well.. the temple's too high up in the dungeon, and
the lair's conventient for lots of places.

--
ru
December 18, 2004 2:37:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> ru wrote:

>> have you tried vehumet's channel energy ability?
>
> I've almost forgot about this ability. My first tries (at low level)
> weren't much impressing, just a few spellpoints. Maybe it becomes
> stronger at higher levels and/or more piety and I should try again.

it goes up with your invocations skill. it's not a massive amount, but
it can make life much easier in a pinch, as Erik says.

>> you've got ice beasts, which shouldn't be underestimated, and you can
>> cast it easily with you current summoning skill. you can also fling
>> cold spells around in their vicinity without worry.
>
> You say ice beast_s_. Was it just a typo or can you actually summon more
> than 1 ice beast at once (or better: in a row)? That would be great, but
> so far it never worked for me. Do I need a higher summoning skill for
> this? Or would a staff of summoning help here?

i tend to keep two or three of them around - to be honest, i'm not very
informed about the mechanics of summoning, there might be some kind of
limit for a low skill, i really don't know. i've never noticed anything,
though.

--
ru
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:42:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

ru wrote:
> Rubinstein wrote:
>> ru wrote:
>
>> You say ice beast_s_.
>
> i tend to keep two or three of them around - to be honest, i'm not
> very informed about the mechanics of summoning, there might be some
> kind of limit for a low skill, i really don't know. i've never noticed
> anything, though.

But that are probably the best news I've heard in the last days!
Somehow I thought the number of existing ice beasts would be limited to
one, all the time and until the end of the game (from my very early
experience). Now, and thanks to your post, I checked again and the
limitation (if there actually was any) has been gone. The only remaining
limit is my mana stock, which makes it up to 8 ice beasts currently. Now
I should be able to clear the bottom of the Halls!
8 frosty thanks from

Rubinstein
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 1:31:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 18 Dec 2004 11:22:18 GMT, ru <ru@no.spam.please.net> wrote:

>Jeremey Wilson wrote:
>> Erik Piper wrote:
>
>>> I also form only one major stash and form it quite late (the entrance
>>> to the Lair), because I hate the complication of multiple major
>>> stashes, and of course the complication of monsters that can pick
>>> items up as well. (Animals can't, so...)
>>
>> Hey, me too. I figured everybody but me used the Temple.
>
>i use the lair as well.. the temple's too high up in the dungeon, and
>the lair's conventient for lots of places.

I tend to use the Temple right away so I can stash most of my stuff I
want to keep but not use immediately, then move my stash down to the
Lair later. The Lair certainly becomes the more logical base after a
time, but many of us can more consistently reach the Temple in order
to use it.

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 1:45:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 3:13:47 AM bork 12/18/2004 bork bork:

> > 2) A really weird thing happened to me today: I started levitating at
> > one point using a potion, wasn't wearing an items related to
> > levitation or flight control AFAIR, and although I shift-5'ed until I
> > literally starved, I never stopped levitating until I used a "stop
> > levitating" item that had appeared in my Invocations list. I wonder
> > WTF that was all about! One would almost believe Crawl has bugs. No,
> > that *can't* be it, so... ;-)
>
> That sounds really weird, indeed. I just confirmed my former statement
> about the ring, and it's true: levitation from the ring definitely times
> out and the potion should do as well. Or the other way around: If one
> item should not time out, it's the ring rather than the potion. But I
> never saw this strange behavior from the potion and if it's actually a
> bug, it must be a pretty rare one...

Turned out the bug was in me: I didn't remember at the moment that I was
wearing boots of levitation. The boots don't care how you started levitating
-- they will keep you from landing until you ask to do so.

> > [hippie-parody puzzle-spoiler]
> >
> >> You throw me from one riddle into another, but still - funny!
> >> Where does it come from? Sounds like some kind of freak comics...
> >
> > It's typical language for parodies of hippie talk. Actually, what with
> > my father being a heavy pot smoker since hippie days, I can attest
> > that there is a little bit of realism to the language of such
> > parodies...
>
> So, looks like you're one of my son's generation!

Finally, a rogueliker who makes me feel *young*!

> But though I may have
> one or too things in common with your father, it's surely not the hippie
> talk: as long as I can think, I'm a fashion-hater (and if your father
> actually still feels like a hippie, you better don't show him this post.

His wife said "but I *like* Weatherbug" when I told her it was spyware during
my visit to the States this summer, and he himself has frequent computer
problems that he can only solve with a trip to the shop... so I think I'm
safe.

I'm rather more worried that my *boss* will Google my name and discover my
Usenet posts (not so likely anymore now that I'm not posting in a newsgroup
that's not mirrored on several webpages). ;-)

He doesn't feel like a hippie anymore, thankfully; in fact, he's a little too
conservative for my tastes in some things. What freaks me out, though, is the
permanent brain-cuisinarting that he suffers even when he's not stoned at the
moment. Oh well, at least he's an object lesson. (I do love him dearly, of
course.)

> Most hippies usually take themselves a little bit too serious to accept
> being just a member of a fashion). g

He was hippie-ish quite early (64ish), so it wasn't so much fashion as a
search that led in a "historical" direction.

Erik
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 2:35:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork R. Dan Henry bork 7:31:06 AM bork 12/19/2004 bork bork:

> > Jeremey Wilson wrote:
> >> Erik Piper wrote:
> >
> >>> I also form only one major stash and form it quite late (the entrance
> >>> to the Lair), because I hate the complication of multiple major
> >>> stashes, and of course the complication of monsters that can pick
> >>> items up as well. (Animals can't, so...)
> >>
> >> Hey, me too. I figured everybody but me used the Temple.
> >
> > i use the lair as well.. the temple's too high up in the dungeon, and
> > the lair's conventient for lots of places.
>
> I tend to use the Temple right away so I can stash most of my stuff I
> want to keep but not use immediately, then move my stash down to the
> Lair later. The Lair certainly becomes the more logical base after a
> time, but many of us can more consistently reach the Temple in order
> to use it.

Fair enough. The reduction in dead weight certainly helps to increase life
expectancy too. Actually, I've started to compromise and drop some food
before the Lair -- it's really heavy, and the reserve doesn't become
important until later on.

Erik
December 21, 2004 4:37:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

following Rubenstein's icy travails has motivated me to reactivate a
dormant IE that i'd got bored of in the swamp.

i've cleared (in order) the Lair, Snake, Swamp, Mines (incredibly
amusing with ice storm: the gangs of orcs had little chance), Hive
(freezing cloud was best here amongst the honeycomb, with ice beasts on
melee duty), and am on my way through the Halls (mainly ice bolt: the
levels have been quite open, and there have been fewer big groups),
though i may leave the last level 'till later.

once i've done the halls i may do Slime - last couple of games i've
missed out on this as i didn't find teleport control before dying.


chilly the Ice Mage (Deep Elf)
(Level 17 Ice Elementalist)

Play time: 11:57:29 Number of turns: 50176

Experience : 17/211146
Strength 7 Dexterity 16 Intelligence 25
Hit Points : 71 Magic Points : 36/39
AC : 12 Evasion : 18 Shield : 0
//i need more EV

GP : 2419
//not much to buy around

You are in the Elven Halls.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
//yay!
You are encumbered.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
f - a +1,+1 elven dagger of slicing
z - the uncursed ancus of Disgust
[freezing]
It protects you from magic.
It lets you sense your surroundings.
//though not very well :-/

Armour
e - a +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
//my resistances are not very good.

k - the +2 cloak of Flash (worn)
A vibrating cloak.
It affects your evasion (+4).
It lets you levitate.
It lets you teleport.
//found early. very nice.

I - a +2 elven wizard's hat (worn)
K - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
V - a +0 pair of elven boots (worn)
Magical devices
o - a wand of paralysis
t - a wand of fireball (6)
w - a wand of disintegration
y - a wand of draining
A - a wand of teleportation (3)
C - a wand of fire
S - a wand of digging (11)

Comestibles
c - 5 royal jellies
H - a banana
N - 3 chunks of human flesh
R - 2 chunks of elf flesh
//an interesting christmas recipe..

Scrolls
//some of theese need to be stashed, i know
d - 5 scrolls of blinking
i - 7 scrolls of teleportation
m - a scroll of detect curse
v - 4 scrolls of remove curse
x - 7 scrolls of identify
J - a scroll of summoning
M - 3 scrolls of fear

Jewellery
//plenty of the basis, but not a single piece of randart jewelery
j - a ring of poison resistance
l - an amulet of resist mutation
n - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
s - a ring of see invisible
D - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
// i couldn't go into the halls until i bought this. with fire
// vulnerability from the ring of ice, even a puff of flame was
// dangerous
G - a ring of ice (right hand)
//yay!
L - a ring of teleport control

Potions
//most potions are left behind, as they are taking a bit of a battering
//from oz's refrigeration. oh, for an item of conservation
g - a potion of might
h - a potion of invisibility
q - 3 potions of healing
u - 2 potions of restore abilities
Q - a potion of heal wounds

Magical staves
a - a staff of cold (weapon)
b - a staff of enchantment
//for deflect missiles

You have 542 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 1 Fighting
//finally! this took a lot of effort (and some inconvenience stopping
//my ice beasts from killing the plants before i'd dumped all my xp)
- Level 1 Short Blades
- Level 2 Staves
+ Level 8 Dodging
+ Level 8 Stealth
- Level 2 Unarmed Combat
//punching plants
+ Level 15 Spellcasting
- Level 16 Conjurations
//i want to keep ice my highest
+ Level 3 Enchantments
+ Level 7 Summonings
+ Level 2 Translocations
//had blink for a while
+ Level 3 Divinations
- Level 17 Ice Magic
//this may go back on once i've pumped fighting a bit more
+ Level 3 Air Magic
//with the staff of enchantment, this is enough to cast deflect missiles
+ Level 6 Invocations
//easy to train with channel energy. i'm getting ~3MP per channel now
- Level 7 Evocations

You have 3 spell levels left.
//i used to have deflect missiles, but i dropped it for Iskenderun's at
//one point, and haven't got round to relearning it. if i can't learn it
//by vault:8 i'll forget something else so that i can.

You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Bolt of Cold Ice/Conjuration Perfect 5
b - Ice Storm Ice/Conjuration Great 9
//i love this spell
c - Detect Creatures Divination Great 2
d - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast Conjuration Excellent 4
//learnt in the swamp for dealing with phantom things. undead swatter.
e - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning Perfect 5
f - Ozocubu's Refrigeration Ice Perfect 5
//i've not used this much before. it should be used sparingly, but it's
//quite fun. used it on a room of 20 orcs, and ended up with more mana
//than i started with :) 
g - Freezing Cloud Ice/Air/Conjuration Excellent 7
//great for avoiding LOS problems
h - Selective Amnesia Enchantment Great 3
i - Abjuration Summoning Excellent 3
//learnt this specially for the demonolologists of the Halls. i've yet to try
//it in anger.

Mutations & Other Weirdness
You have a slow metabolism.
You can spit poison.
Your vision is a little blurry.
//from a miscast of deflect missiles. the others were from eating
//shapeshifters. no potions of cure mutation yet, grrr.

--
ru
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 6:39:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:

Just an update to my original post, where my DEIE was looking like this:

> TicMuna the Destroyer (Deep Elf)
> (Level 17 Ice Elementalist)
>
> Play time: 15:30:25 Number of turns: 50257
>
> Experience : 17/208681
> Strength 8 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 26
> Hit Points : 74 Magic Points : 47
> AC : 17 Evasion : 13 Shield : 0

Arriving from a bloody afternoon I just like to lean back, bother you
with some new bragging and new questions again (some comments might be
spoilish, at least for fresh players...). For all those who don't like
browsing to the entire dump: I finished the Vault and got my 3th rune!

TicMuna the Devastator (Deep Elf)
(Level 22 Ice Elementalist)

Play time: 1 day, 08:49:52 Number of turns: 106284

Experience : 22/680095
Strength 12 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 28
Hit Points : 90 Magic Points : 40/43
AC : 21 Evasion : 14 Shield : 0
GP : 2944

You are in the Vaults.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship. // so exalted that he forgot to
drop some new books for a long time now (helloooo, Vehumet, I *need*
Selective Amnesia!)
You are full. // TicMuna, the gourmand

Inventory:
Hand weapons
c - an uncursed runed dagger of holy wrath // my chunks of flesh are
// blessed now at least...
Armour
g - a +4 robe of fire resistance (worn) // still wearing this, but...
p - a +2 cloak (worn)
t - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
u - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn) // new
C - a +2 visored helmet (worn)
Q - a +0 robe of resistance // new ...I'm going to enchant this one
Magical devices
e - a wand of flame (6)
f - a wand of teleportation
j - a wand of digging
k - a wand of cold
q - a wand of fireball
z - a wand of fire (2)
K - a wand of enslavement (3)
M - a wand of invisibility (1)
Comestibles
i - 2 meat rations
F - 3 honeycombs
I - 3 royal jellies
Scrolls
m - a scroll of remove curse
y - a scroll of teleportation
A - 3 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
l - the ring "Ynewixuxom M X"
This ring either protects its wearer from harm or makes them more
vulnerable to injury, to a degree dependent on its power.
It affects your AC (+5).
It affects your intelligence (+2).

w - an uncursed ring of see invisible
E - a ring of levitation
H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
J - a ring of ice // I'm currently testing the 2 rings below, I just
// forgot to put on my rings (l and J) again.
O - an uncursed notched golden ring
P - an uncursed diamond ring // one of O or P gives me the levitation
// ability. But since I do have a ring of levitation and this one isn't
// ID'd yet, I guess it must be a randart.
Potions
r - 4 potions of healing
R - a potion of heal wounds
S - 2 potions of restore abilities
Magical staves
a - a staff of conjuration (weapon) // probably one of the most useful
// items I've found on Vault:8. Seems to me as good as my former staves
// of earth/cold which I always had to swap.
G - a staff of power // I'll probably ditch this, too
Miscellaneous
d - a bone lantern // Currently this one is debated on r.g.r.m, thus I
// thought I must have one, too. ;-) found on Vault:8
o - a silver rune // the blood is still dripping from it...


You have 106 experience left.

Skills:
- Level 1 Short Blades
- Level 3 Staves
- Level 9 Dodging
+ Level 10 Stealth
+ Level 15 Spellcasting
+ Level 23 Conjurations
+ Level 6 Enchantments
+ Level 4 Summonings
+ Level 3 Translocations
+ Level 1 Divinations
+ Level 20 Ice Magic // too much skills open currently, but
// occasionally I only pump up one or 2 skills
- Level 3 Air Magic
+ Level 7 Earth Magic
- Level 1 Poison Magic
+ Level 10 Invocations // like this one, to get more out of Vehumet's
// Channel Energy
- Level 8 Evocations


You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Freeze Ice Perfect 1
b - Throw Frost Ice/Conjuration Perfect 2
c - Ozocubu's Armour Ice/Enchantment Excellent 3
d - Ice Bolt Ice/Conjuration Perfect 4
e - Shock Air/Conjuration Perfect 1
f - Swiftness Air/Enchantment Great 2
g - Mephitic Cloud Poison/Air/Conjuration Excellent 3
h - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Great 2
i - Static Discharge Air/Conjuration Perfect 4
j - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning Excellent 5
k - Levitation Air/Enchantment Great 2
l - Bolt of Iron Earth/Conjuration Excellent 6
m - Lee's Rapid Deconstruction Earth/Transmigration Good 5
n - Blink Translocation Great 2
o - Teleport Self Translocation Good 5
p - Detect Creatures Divination Great 2

// Still no Ice Storm! I did the entire Vault with Ice Bolt and Bolt of
// Iron plus 4 helper spells: Ozo's Armour, Swiftness, Repel Missiles
// and Ice Beast(s). I also still don't have any other resistances than
// cold and fire. Most painful monsters at Vault:8 were Stone Giants,
// one of them got me down to 10 HP, which were the only *really* closed
// moments (my own fault, though. I think I just forgot either c or h).

Spoiler follows:

*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

Mutations & Other Weirdness
You have tough skin (AC +1).
You have a slow metabolism.
You are partially covered in red scales (AC + 1).
You are partially covered in purple scales (AC + 2).

// Got all 4 mutations from a glowing corpse, which was a Death Clown
// (shapeshifter) at first (hope I recall the name correctly) and was
// killed as a royal jelly. What I'ld like to know:
// Do all glowing chunks of flesh give positive mutations? Does the
// (positive/negative) outcome in any way depend on the origin monster?

Vanquished Creatures
A royal jelly (shapeshifter) (Vault:8)
An Orb Guardian (shapeshifter) (Vault:8)
2 quicksilver dragons (Vault:8)
2 titans (Vault:8)
3 shadow dragons (Vault:8)
2 storm dragons (Vault:8)
Frances (D:20)
Francis (Snake:5)
3 frost giants
A tentacled monstrosity (Vault:8)
A fire giant (Vault:8)
A fire giant (shapeshifter) (D:21)
15 stone giants
6 deep elf annihilators (Elf:7)
Louise (D:18)
5 greater nagas (Snake:5)
6 deep elf death magi (Elf:7)
Jozef (D:19)
3 deep elf sorcerers (Elf:7)
24 vault guards
A minotaur (shapeshifter) (Vault:7)
20 yaktaur captains
3 great orbs of eyes
8 dragons
21 death yaks
2 ice dragons
A minotaur (Lab)
Norbert (D:15)
Erica (Snake:3)
7 deep elf demonologists (Elf:7)
Josephine (D:19)
2 rakshasas
Harold (Vault:5)
5 deep elf high priests
14 centaur warriors
A deep troll (Vault:8)
An elephant slug (Lair:10)
A shadow wraith (Vault:6)
An iron troll (shapeshifter) (D:20)
Snorg (Elf:4)

From here I snipped everything but uniques, singles and shapeshifters.
To me it seems like there are quite a lot of shapeshifters. Is this
normal?

2 giant orange brains (shapeshifter)
2 hill giants (shapeshifter) (Vault:8)
A necromancer (Vault:7)
A guardian naga (Snake:4)
Erolcha (D:11)
Michael (Swamp:1)
A queen ant (shapeshifter) (D:22)
A slime creature (shapeshifter) (Vault:3)
A dragon skeleton (Vault:7)
A griffon skeleton (D:17)
A spiny worm skeleton (Vault:7)
A giant snail (shapeshifter) (Elf:6)
An efreet (D:17)
A queen bee (Hive:4)
A redback (D:22)
Psyche (D:13)
A yak (shapeshifter) (Vault:1)
An iron troll zombie (D:21)
A bumblebee (D:18)
A deep troll skeleton (Vault:8)
A hippogriff (shapeshifter) (D:21)
A storm dragon zombie (D:21)
A cyclops skeleton (D:16)
A ynoxinul (Elf:2)
A soldier ant (D:14)
Edmund (D:5)
A lava worm (D:22)
A guardian naga skeleton (Vault:5)
A griffon zombie (Vault:5)
A troll skeleton (Vault:2)
2 boring beetles (shapeshifter)
Sigmund (D:7)
A brain worm (D:19)
Blork the orc (D:9)
A boulder beetle (shapeshifter) (Vault:8)
A kobold demonologist (D:18)
A blink frog skeleton (D:22)
A steam dragon (D:8)
An ugly thing simulacrum (D:16)
A yaktaur simulacrum (Vault:2)
A cyclops zombie (D:15)
A brain worm skeleton (Vault:8)
A yaktaur zombie (Vault:4)
A human (D:16)
An orange rat (Elf:1)
Ijyb (D:7)
A giant frog skeleton (Vault:6)
A lemure (Elf:7)
A shadow imp (Elf:3)
A mummy (D:22)
A white imp (Elf:2)
An ooze (D:3)
An orc skeleton (D:20)

2690 creatures vanquished.

Still there? Your patience must be legendary! ;-)
Thanks for reading

Rubinstein
December 23, 2004 2:55:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> You are in the Vaults.
> You worship Vehumet.
> Vehumet is exalted by your worship. // so exalted that he forgot to
> drop some new books for a long time now (helloooo, Vehumet, I *need*
> Selective Amnesia!)

unlike sif muna, vehumet just gives you a limited selection of books.
you've probably got them all by now

> Jewellery
> l - the ring "Ynewixuxom M X"
> This ring either protects its wearer from harm or makes them more
> vulnerable to injury, to a degree dependent on its power.
> It affects your AC (+5).
> It affects your intelligence (+2).
>
> w - an uncursed ring of see invisible
> E - a ring of levitation
> H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
> J - a ring of ice // I'm currently testing the 2 rings below, I just
> // forgot to put on my rings (l and J) again.
> O - an uncursed notched golden ring
> P - an uncursed diamond ring // one of O or P gives me the levitation
> // ability. But since I do have a ring of levitation and this one isn't
> // ID'd yet, I guess it must be a randart.

randarts should identify themselves immediately when you put them on..
don't know what going on here, in that case.

> o - a silver rune // the blood is still dripping from it...

nice :) 
looks like you've got things pretty much under control

> You have 2 spell levels left.
> You know the following spells:
>
> Your Spells Type Success Level
> a - Freeze Ice Perfect 1
> b - Throw Frost Ice/Conjuration Perfect 2
> c - Ozocubu's Armour Ice/Enchantment Excellent 3
> d - Ice Bolt Ice/Conjuration Perfect 4
> e - Shock Air/Conjuration Perfect 1
> f - Swiftness Air/Enchantment Great 2
> g - Mephitic Cloud Poison/Air/Conjuration Excellent 3
> h - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Great 2
> i - Static Discharge Air/Conjuration Perfect 4
> j - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning Excellent 5
> k - Levitation Air/Enchantment Great 2
> l - Bolt of Iron Earth/Conjuration Excellent 6
> m - Lee's Rapid Deconstruction Earth/Transmigration Good 5
> n - Blink Translocation Great 2
> o - Teleport Self Translocation Good 5
> p - Detect Creatures Divination Great 2
>
> // Still no Ice Storm! I did the entire Vault with Ice Bolt and Bolt of
> // Iron plus 4 helper spells: Ozo's Armour, Swiftness, Repel Missiles
> // and Ice Beast(s). I also still don't have any other resistances than
> // cold and fire.

wow, you really do need to get rid of some of those useless spells. no
luck finding selective amnesia in bookshops?

> Mutations & Other Weirdness
> You have tough skin (AC +1).
> You have a slow metabolism.
> You are partially covered in red scales (AC + 1).
> You are partially covered in purple scales (AC + 2).

good collection for a spellcaster

> // Got all 4 mutations from a glowing corpse, which was a Death Clown
> // (shapeshifter) at first (hope I recall the name correctly) and was
> // killed as a royal jelly. What I'ld like to know:
> // Do all glowing chunks of flesh give positive mutations? Does the
> // (positive/negative) outcome in any way depend on the origin monster?

it's random, unless it's a rotting chunk, in which case it's always bad.

IIRC greater shapreshifter corpses give you more mutations than normal
ones.

> From here I snipped everything but uniques, singles and shapeshifters.
> To me it seems like there are quite a lot of shapeshifters. Is this
> normal?

it can happen. there are some shapeshifter-heavy special levels that you
could have run into

> Still there? Your patience must be legendary! ;-)

haha! nope, i'm trapped visiting the family for the duration of
christmas; i need all the diversion i can get!

--
ru
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 4:34:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <slrncslch0.2jip.ru@newred.gradwell.net>,
ru <ru@no.spam.please.net> wrote:
>
>randarts should identify themselves immediately when you put them on..
>don't know what going on here, in that case.

Nop, randart jewellery is only identified when you wear it if the 'base
type' of the randart would auto-identify on being worn.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/
!