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[DoomRL] Design Issues - Results

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Anonymous
January 29, 2005 8:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Hello,

As telling everyone in every subthread what I have planned would be too
time-consuming (I'd rather code ;-) ), I'll tell what I have planned for the
major issues -- of course thi is open to discussion.

Shotgun -- I finally decided for a variation of David's approach.
Assault Shotgun will be no more, standard shotgun will have a magazine of 4.
One pressing of 'r' will pump one shell into the magazine, the second one
(if in a row with the previous) will reload all shells (longer reload time
equal to the missing shells in the magazine). Double shotgun will stay as it
is.

Dodge -- the "slow bullet" approach would need severe modifications to
the engine. And DoomRL is a roguelike after all, so it doesn't have to be
exactly as Doom. But the dodge argument is valid, and again Daviid (IMVHO)
had the best proposition on that. Here's my version of his idea.

Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and only
player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that the attacker
will fire at the last spot the player was at. This will only happen if the
adversary uses a non-instant missle (rocket, plasma, ball). The chance of
firing in the last cell is modified by the Traits Hellrunner and Dodge
(new), (maybe) by the direction of the last move), (maybe) by the distance
from the attacker. The problem here is, that the adversary will never fire
if the player just get's out of the LOS, but that would be only visually
interesting, so maybe we'll be able to live with that. Also it is modified
based on the shooters weapon.

Head Slot -- will be in, but only when I change the LOS and Dungen code
(then it will have sense).

New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the Doom-feel
IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting Gun (but it
probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?), Railgun (Cells), BFG10k
(as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an assault rifle as a step between
Pistol and Chaingun.

Chaingun (Realism/Single-fire) -- Oh come on! The Chaingun *is* a
gatling gun, we see that clearly in the game. Unrealistic? Hell, if I were
supposed to make DoomRL weapons realistic, then you would be able to carry
just two-three weapons, and only a handfull of ammo to them. This is a
cinematic game, and anything other would make the game challenging, but also
boring and unDoomish. So, no single-fire chainguns, and damage of chaingun
versus pistol will stay the same.

Library change -- I'm fully determinated to port DoomRL to GenRogue's
Valkyrie library. If that is done it will solve a lot of issues. Linux
version will be possible, CMovies and screenshots will be possible, a
ini-file will be very easy to implement, and several other issues will be
solved. I will start writing a API facade unit between Valkyrie 1 and
Valkyrie 2 ASAP.

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
January 29, 2005 8:09:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Hello,
>
> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the
> Doom-feel IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting
> Gun (but it probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?),
> Railgun (Cells), BFG10k (as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an
> assault rifle as a step between Pistol and Chaingun.

Just a quick note on this as far as 'canon' goes. Doom 3 has both Grenades
AND a SMG/MG like weapon. I'm fairly ambivalent about either, and the
others, though I do think the Railgun could be a cool weapon (it behaves
markedly differently than the others). Grenades do open up some interesting
tactical possibilities.

Get those room traps and monster swarms in! :D 
January 30, 2005 12:55:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:

> Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and only
> player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that the attacker
> will fire at the last spot the player was at.

nice :) 

> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the Doom-feel
> IMHO).

i'm not particularly fussed, but i tend to include quake in the doom
canon; the grenade launcher in quake is quite fun to bouncing shots off
walls.

> The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting Gun (but it
> probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?), Railgun (Cells),

actually i'd do these the other way round: cells for the lightning gun,
and dedicated railgun ammo. the reason being that the LG is just another
energy weapon which needs electricity to work, whereas the railgun needs
a solid slug. YMMV ;-)


--
ru
Related resources
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:26:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Marcus" <akf@afdslkj.com> wrote:
>Just a quick note on this as far as 'canon' goes. Doom 3 has both Grenades
>AND a SMG/MG like weapon.

*ahem* I, and I believe several others, do not regard Doom 3 as part of
the Doom canon.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:39:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>> whereas the
>> railgun needs a solid slug. YMMV ;-)
>It is?? I always thought of it more as a laser... at least how far
>the
>graphics go...
It is a slug fired at hypersonic speeds. Magnets are used to propel
the slug, and at it's speed you probably could see it!
Nice game Kornel!

For those who couldn't guess I'm new around here. ;) 
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 11:20:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Marcus wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the
>> Doom-feel IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting
>> Gun (but it probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?),
>> Railgun (Cells), BFG10k (as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an
>> assault rifle as a step between Pistol and Chaingun.
>
> Just a quick note on this as far as 'canon' goes. Doom 3 has both
> Grenades AND a SMG/MG like weapon.

I don't consider Doom3 as canon. At least until I see it ;-).

> I'm fairly ambivalent about
> either, and the others, though I do think the Railgun could be a cool
> weapon (it behaves markedly differently than the others).

Yes. But what to use as ammo?

> Get those room traps and monster swarms in! :D 

Uh, yeah ;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 11:21:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

ru wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and
>> only player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that
>> the attacker will fire at the last spot the player was at.
>
> nice :) 
>
>> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the
>> Doom-feel IMHO).
>
> i'm not particularly fussed, but i tend to include quake in the doom
> canon; the grenade launcher in quake is quite fun to bouncing shots
> off walls.
>
>> The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting Gun (but it
>> probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?), Railgun (Cells),
>
> actually i'd do these the other way round: cells for the lightning
> gun, and dedicated railgun ammo. the reason being that the LG is just
> another energy weapon which needs electricity to work,

You think cells may provide electricity?

> whereas the
> railgun needs a solid slug. YMMV ;-)

It is?? I always thought of it more as a laser... at least how far the
graphics go...

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 11:50:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:ctjc3e$oqo$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
co nastepuje:

>>
>> actually i'd do these the other way round: cells for the lightning
>> gun, and dedicated railgun ammo. the reason being that the LG is just
>> another energy weapon which needs electricity to work,
>
> You think cells may provide electricity?
>

It would be very impractical if they contained plasma (which is HOT!). :-)

>> whereas the
>> railgun needs a solid slug. YMMV ;-)
>
> It is?? I always thought of it more as a laser... at least how far the
> graphics go...
>

Real "railguns" use magnetic fields to accelerate small metal objects. Some
people believe that one day it will be possible to construct a railgun that
accelerates projectiles to much higher speeds than those attained with
combustion based guns. No curly blue trails should be expected, though. And
no explosion flash. Not much noise, either. Sorry.

Pozdr.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
FAQ grupy prgk.rpg - http://faq.prgk.net/rpg.txt
"If you back up, it won't matter if you screw up."
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 11:55:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Zillameth" <zill@jimp.neostrada.pl> wrote:
>Real "railguns" use magnetic fields to accelerate small metal objects. Some
>people believe that one day it will be possible to construct a railgun that
>accelerates projectiles to much higher speeds than those attained with
>combustion based guns. No curly blue trails should be expected, though. And
>no explosion flash. Not much noise, either. Sorry.

Oh, there'll be plenty of sound from a railgun projectile, given its
airspeed. Not to mention the sound of the railgun violently disassembling
itself :) 
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 12:16:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

TheWickedFlea wrote:
>>> whereas the
>>> railgun needs a solid slug. YMMV ;-)
>> It is?? I always thought of it more as a laser... at least how far
>> the
>> graphics go...
> It is a slug fired at hypersonic speeds. Magnets are used to propel
> the slug, and at it's speed you probably could see it!

So how should I name the ammo? (or maybe it could be powered by BOTH cells
and 10mm ammo, that would be fun! :D  -- and would mean you would still have
to carry at least a handfull of those 10mm bullets :D ).

> Nice game Kornel!

Thank you... ;-)

> For those who couldn't guess I'm new around here. ;) 

....and welcome ;D

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 12:19:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:09:14 +0100, "Kornel Kisielewicz"
<kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:

>Hello,
>
> As telling everyone in every subthread what I have planned would be too
>time-consuming (I'd rather code ;-) ), I'll tell what I have planned for the
>major issues -- of course thi is open to discussion.
>
> Shotgun -- I finally decided for a variation of David's approach.
>Assault Shotgun will be no more, standard shotgun will have a magazine of 4.
>One pressing of 'r' will pump one shell into the magazine, the second one
>(if in a row with the previous) will reload all shells (longer reload time
>equal to the missing shells in the magazine). Double shotgun will stay as it
>is.

Too bad. I preferred the simplicity of the walk-and-reload idea.

> Dodge -- the "slow bullet" approach would need severe modifications to
>the engine. And DoomRL is a roguelike after all, so it doesn't have to be
>exactly as Doom. But the dodge argument is valid, and again Daviid (IMVHO)
>had the best proposition on that. Here's my version of his idea.

> Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and only
>player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that the attacker
>will fire at the last spot the player was at. This will only happen if the
>adversary uses a non-instant missle (rocket, plasma, ball).

This should work. At least running for cover will be semi-viable.

> Head Slot -- will be in, but only when I change the LOS and Dungen code
>(then it will have sense).

How about a Tor Johnson Mask for the Head Slot. Monsters think you're
another monster until they see you attack, so you can sneak into
position and attack by surprise. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be very
durable, so would be shot off in one or two hits.

> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the Doom-feel
>IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting Gun (but it
>probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?), Railgun (Cells), BFG10k
>(as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an assault rifle as a step between
>Pistol and Chaingun.

I don't think new weapons are needed, just more utility for the
existing ones. What you could add some variety to is barrels. In
addition to exploding barrels, there could be barrels that spill acid
when shot (cover the floor around them with acid), barrels that do
nothing (make shooting through them difficult/impossible and they
serve as extra cover), barrels that burst into flame (light up the
level -- addition after darkness implemented), barrels that do other
interesting things.

> Chaingun (Realism/Single-fire) -- Oh come on! The Chaingun *is* a
>gatling gun, we see that clearly in the game. Unrealistic? Hell, if I were
>supposed to make DoomRL weapons realistic, then you would be able to carry
>just two-three weapons, and only a handfull of ammo to them.

And one assumes a bit more advanced design than today, and it is only
using pistol ammo (a sensible decision if you want soldiers firing the
thing on the run).

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 12:21:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:50:18 +0100, "Zillameth"
<zill@jimp.neostrada.pl> wrote:

>Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:ctjc3e$oqo$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
>co nastepuje:

>>> actually i'd do these the other way round: cells for the lightning
>>> gun, and dedicated railgun ammo. the reason being that the LG is just
>>> another energy weapon which needs electricity to work,
>>
>> You think cells may provide electricity?

>It would be very impractical if they contained plasma (which is HOT!). :-)

The cells would generate plasma on firing. Just having hot plasma
sitting around would be silly. Furthermore, if it is the right kind of
plasma, it could power a miniature fusion generator which would
generate electricity.

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 12:22:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Zillameth wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:ctjc3e$oqo$1@inews.gazeta.pl
> pisze, co nastepuje:
>
>>>
>>> actually i'd do these the other way round: cells for the lightning
>>> gun, and dedicated railgun ammo. the reason being that the LG is
>>> just another energy weapon which needs electricity to work,
>>
>> You think cells may provide electricity?
>
> It would be very impractical if they contained plasma (which is
> HOT!). :-)

So with what to power Lighting Guns?

>> It is?? I always thought of it more as a laser... at least how far
>> the graphics go...
>
> Real "railguns" use magnetic fields to accelerate small metal
> objects. Some people believe that one day it will be possible to
> construct a railgun that accelerates projectiles to much higher
> speeds than those attained with combustion based guns. No curly blue
> trails should be expected, though. And no explosion flash. Not much
> noise, either. Sorry.

I know, I know, but DoomRL wont simulate reality ;-) (this is GenRogue's job
:D ), anyway see post above about the ammo for railguns...
regards,
Kornel Kisielwicz
January 31, 2005 9:28:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> TheWickedFlea wrote:
>>>> whereas the
>>>> railgun needs a solid slug. YMMV ;-)
>>> It is?? I always thought of it more as a laser... at least how far
>>> the
>>> graphics go...
>> It is a slug fired at hypersonic speeds. Magnets are used to propel
>> the slug, and at it's speed you probably could see it!
>
> So how should I name the ammo? (or maybe it could be powered by BOTH
> cells and 10mm ammo, that would be fun! :D  -- and would mean you
> would still have to carry at least a handfull of those 10mm bullets
> :D ).

That's a neat idea... 1x 10mm slug + 5-10 cells per shot or something
similar. Though since you can stack 10mm so high, that wouldn't have much of
a meaningful impact. It would at least force you to use one extra slot to
use the Railgun. I wouldn't recommend adding Slugs, since it'd be another
ammo type that only *one* weapon uses. If nothing else, only Cells wouldn't
feel entirely unnatural.

Speaking of ammo, do you plan for the plasma rifle to supercede the chaingun
entirely later in the game? In Doom, I'd generally use the Chaingun on
weaker stuff later, but the way DRL is now, there *isn't* any weaker stuff
later ;)  Some more swarms of weaker monsters later would help that, forcing
you to decide what to carry around to deal with them.
January 31, 2005 2:44:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> I'm fairly ambivalent about
>> either, and the others, though I do think the Railgun could be a cool
>> weapon (it behaves markedly differently than the others).
> Yes. But what to use as ammo?

IMVHO ammo issues should not be a problem for a designer. I regard it much
more interesting if they will be a lot of weapons with a lot of types of
ammo, that (ammo) will be not as easily disponible as now (it's enough to
go into hell arena on 2nd level to have more than you can carry). That will
give situations like: "oh, no - no more 7.62 bullets - I've got to switch
to this 20mm gatling gun again! Hope will find some shotgun bullets soon
anyway."
I think that inventory limitations \ ammo simplification issues are
blocking you development. ;->

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
January 31, 2005 2:44:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>>> I'm fairly ambivalent about
>>> either, and the others, though I do think the Railgun could be a
>>> cool weapon (it behaves markedly differently than the others).
>> Yes. But what to use as ammo?
>
> IMVHO ammo issues should not be a problem for a designer. I regard it
> much more interesting if they will be a lot of weapons with a lot of
> types of ammo, that (ammo) will be not as easily disponible as now
> (it's enough to go into hell arena on 2nd level to have more than you
> can carry). That will give situations like: "oh, no - no more 7.62
> bullets - I've got to switch to this 20mm gatling gun again! Hope
> will find some shotgun bullets soon anyway."
> I think that inventory limitations \ ammo simplification issues are
> blocking you development. ;->

I like the ammo management. I've had to make tough decisions on what to
carry. Hopefully he'll tweak the chaingun/plasma rifle vs monster armor
behavior, this will force even more contemplation of the issue. Even more so
when the monster mixes and packs change and grow.

Doom inherently doesn't have a ton of weapons, and he's already added
modified versions of the 'basic' weaponry. The rest is carefully monitoring
your healthpacks, ammo, phase devices, possibly thermo bomb, backup armor,
extra weapons, and so on. Even with the 'limited' weapon selection, I still
find myself agonizing over whether I should ditch certain weapons. I suspect
these choices will become more difficult, not less, as he tweaks weapon and
monster behavior.
January 31, 2005 2:50:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> It is a slug fired at hypersonic speeds. Magnets are used to propel
>> the slug, and at it's speed you probably could see it!
>
> So how should I name the ammo? (or maybe it could be powered by BOTH cells
> and 10mm ammo, that would be fun! :D  -- and would mean you would still have
> to carry at least a handfull of those 10mm bullets :D ).

Slugs - http://www.quake2.com/q2wfaq/q2wfaq.html

You don't need to invent the wheel again ;-)

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
January 31, 2005 3:21:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> Chaingun (Realism/Single-fire) -- Oh come on! The Chaingun *is* a
>>gatling gun, we see that clearly in the game. Unrealistic? Hell, if I were
>>supposed to make DoomRL weapons realistic, then you would be able to carry
>>just two-three weapons, and only a handfull of ammo to them.
>
> And one assumes a bit more advanced design than today, and it is only
> using pistol ammo (a sensible decision if you want soldiers firing the
> thing on the run).

That's why I argued that it is a submachine gun implemented under a great
name. The arguments:

1) rate of fire - seems to be five times the pistol fire, so say it's 10
rounds for a second, giving something like 600fpm, while for gatling guns
1 300 - 10 000 rounds per minute:
http://world.guns.ru/machine/minigun-e.htm

2) pistol ammo 10mm comparing to something like 20mm ammo for gatling guns
- this one is explainable however

3) so - with such a rate of fire it is unnecessary to use multiple barrels
as the barrel will not heat itself enough to use gatling gun paradigm, as
we can see on example here:

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg39-e.htm

this gun uses 9mm ammo and shots at 550 rounds per minute, while having
only one barrel, using only recoil to operate, instead of costly energy
sources to rotate gatling barrels (increased weight).

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 3:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Kornel Kisielewicz" <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:ctjc0o$od4$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Marcus wrote:
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the
>>> Doom-feel IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting
>>> Gun (but it probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?),
>>> Railgun (Cells), BFG10k (as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an
>>> assault rifle as a step between Pistol and Chaingun.
>>
>> Just a quick note on this as far as 'canon' goes. Doom 3 has both
>> Grenades AND a SMG/MG like weapon.
>
> I don't consider Doom3 as canon. At least until I see it ;-).
>

I personally adore Doom3. But if you want to really speak about canon,
you should read the doom bible:

http://www.planetdoom.com/doom/doombible.pdf

Being one of the original design documents. Check it out for any ideas
wrt enhancing DRL...I personally think most people don't know what the doom
feel actually is, what was aimed for by id. Then again, it is pretty common
to get these things mixed up. The pdf above is pretty helpful clarifying
all that. Doom3 itself is much closer to that above than any of the other
doom games.

>> I'm fairly ambivalent about
>> either, and the others, though I do think the Railgun could be a cool
>> weapon (it behaves markedly differently than the others).
>
> Yes. But what to use as ammo?
>

I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 3:46:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Kornel Kisielewicz" <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:ctgceu$hrr$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Hello,
>
> [..]
>
> Dodge -- the "slow bullet" approach would need severe modifications to
> the engine. And DoomRL is a roguelike after all, so it doesn't have to be
> exactly as Doom. But the dodge argument is valid, and again Daviid (IMVHO)
> had the best proposition on that. Here's my version of his idea.
>
> Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and only
> player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that the
> attacker will fire at the last spot the player was at. This will only
> happen if the adversary uses a non-instant missle (rocket, plasma, ball).
> The chance of firing in the last cell is modified by the Traits Hellrunner
> and Dodge (new), (maybe) by the direction of the last move), (maybe) by
> the distance from the attacker. The problem here is, that the adversary
> will never fire if the player just get's out of the LOS, but that would be
> only visually interesting, so maybe we'll be able to live with that. Also
> it is modified based on the shooters weapon.
>
> [..]

It is a roguelike, and how you approach this depends on your aims as a
designer. If you are trying to replicate the doom approach, this isn't the
way to do it. If you want to adapt the doom approach to something more
roguelike then some kind of dodge statistic which determines through a
formula involving the enemy's accuracy (and perhaps other things) if a
projectile passes through your square instead of hitting you seems more
appropriate. The above seems counter-intuitive, since most dodging is
performed while firing (at least in doom).

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
January 31, 2005 6:08:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Shotgun -- I finally decided for a variation of David's approach.
> Assault Shotgun will be no more, standard shotgun will have a magazine of 4.
> One pressing of 'r' will pump one shell into the magazine, the second one
> (if in a row with the previous) will reload all shells (longer reload time
> equal to the missing shells in the magazine). Double shotgun will stay as it
> is.

So, pump-action shotgun finally? The size of magazine seems a little small
to me however, it's 5 up to 8 in modern pump-action shotguns. The goal is
obviously not to reload the magazine until the danger is removed.


> Dodge -- the "slow bullet" approach would need severe modifications to
> the engine. And DoomRL is a roguelike after all, so it doesn't have to be
> exactly as Doom. But the dodge argument is valid, and again Daviid (IMVHO)
> had the best proposition on that. Here's my version of his idea.
> Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and only
> player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that the attacker
> will fire at the last spot the player was at. This will only happen if the
> adversary uses a non-instant missle (rocket, plasma, ball). The chance of
> firing in the last cell is modified by the Traits Hellrunner and Dodge
> (new), (maybe) by the direction of the last move), (maybe) by the distance
> from the attacker. The problem here is, that the adversary will never fire
> if the player just get's out of the LOS, but that would be only visually
> interesting, so maybe we'll be able to live with that. Also it is modified
> based on the shooters weapon.

This mechanism is quite complicated and innovative, but I guess it's not
really interesting to use, as the dodging move is usually backward in
roguelikes, eventually backwards across. That usually induces monster
chasing character instead of shooting, while character is going for
obstacle, which is in some way necessary for him.


> Head Slot -- will be in, but only when I change the LOS and Dungen code
> (then it will have sense).

Nice.


> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the Doom-feel
> IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting Gun (but it
> probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?), Railgun (Cells), BFG10k
> (as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an assault rifle as a step between
> Pistol and Chaingun.

Let me guess - 10mm assault rifle? :> Seems be closer to verity than 10mm
gatling gun, but anyway too simplified for my taste. (I might be deviated
by Vietcong).


> Chaingun (Realism/Single-fire) -- Oh come on! The Chaingun *is* a
> gatling gun, we see that clearly in the game. Unrealistic? Hell, if I were
> supposed to make DoomRL weapons realistic, then you would be able to carry
> just two-three weapons, and only a handfull of ammo to them. This is a
> cinematic game, and anything other would make the game challenging, but also
> boring and unDoomish. So, no single-fire chainguns,

Right now it's a submachine gun that has unnecessary gatling gun mechanism.
;-> Unrealistic - take reality, multiply by 2 and you will receive
science-fiction, I've nothing against. If some weapon fires realistic ammo
with realistic rate of fire doing realistic damage it's ok for me. Unless
the gun is close in parameters to modern 2 kg submachine gun and is
supposed to be a 50kg six(?)-barelled gatling gun used primarily as
antiaircraft gun. Doom creators needed a weapon that is visually
interesting and distinctive, that's why they used gatling gun I guess.


> ...and damage of chaingun versus pistol will stay the same.

You omitted word "illogically". ;>

PS. Inventory decisions are unDoomish if you ask me.
--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 6:29:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:50:18 +0100, Zillameth napisal(a):
> Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:ctjc3e$oqo$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
> co nastepuje:

> Real "railguns" use magnetic fields to accelerate small metal objects.

You're talking about coil guns.
They use a set of electromagnets (coils) along the barrell to propel the
projectile.

Rail guns use two (or more?) rails, positioned like a letter V, and a very
powerful electric field is used to propel the projectile along the rails
(in similar way you can shoot an appleseed [not the manga] by pressing it
between your fingers).

> Some
> people believe that one day it will be possible to construct a railgun that
> accelerates projectiles to much higher speeds than those attained with
> combustion based guns.

Especially the ones who already did it in the labs.
Railguns were already built, they are working. Unfortunatelly, they
require a small power plant to operate and you need to install new rails
for every shot. And the size is hardly portable.

> No curly blue trails should be expected, though. And
> no explosion flash. Not much noise, either. Sorry.

Since the projectiles brak the sound barrier, considerable amount of noise
is expected. Some flashes between the rails and a trail of ionized air
could be expected too...

The projectiles has such an energy, that there's a large explosion when it
hits the target (AFAIR the projectile and part of the target turn into
plasma, or something).

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 10:47:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
> 1 vote against. Any others?
FOR. Gimme that gun!! ;) 
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 11:47:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
> 1 vote against. Any others?
For, gimme the gun! ;) 
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 12:04:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
> 1 vote against. Any others?
For. I really want that gun! ;) 
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 1:29:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

I see one copy, Google groups appears to have eaten the others to me...
Sorry, it was not intentional.
Just beat the cyberdemon for the 1st time, nice work Kornel!
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 3:51:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
>> I don't consider Doom3 as canon. At least until I see it ;-).
>>
>
> I personally adore Doom3. But if you want to really speak about
> canon, you should read the doom bible:
>
> http://www.planetdoom.com/doom/doombible.pdf

I know it ;-). I have a copy of it in the DoomRL design folder ;-).

> Being one of the original design documents. Check it out for any
> ideas wrt enhancing DRL...I personally think most people don't know
> what the doom feel actually is, what was aimed for by id.

Still i consider this design version a little to "bright and happy".

>>> I'm fairly ambivalent about
>>> either, and the others, though I do think the Railgun could be a
>>> cool weapon (it behaves markedly differently than the others).
>>
>> Yes. But what to use as ammo?
>
> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.

1 vote against. Any others?

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 3:52:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>>> I'm fairly ambivalent about
>>> either, and the others, though I do think the Railgun could be a
>>> cool weapon (it behaves markedly differently than the others).
>> Yes. But what to use as ammo?
>
> IMVHO ammo issues should not be a problem for a designer. I regard it
> much more interesting if they will be a lot of weapons with a lot of
> types of ammo, that (ammo) will be not as easily disponible as now
> (it's enough to go into hell arena on 2nd level to have more than you
> can carry). That will give situations like: "oh, no - no more 7.62
> bullets - I've got to switch to this 20mm gatling gun again! Hope
> will find some shotgun bullets soon anyway."

Well maybe... I had this all the time when playing DeusEx ;-).

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
February 1, 2005 4:15:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
> 1 vote against. Any others?

For.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
February 1, 2005 4:31:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <yt0czghfwac8.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr>, Loonie wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>> 1 vote against. Any others?
>
> For.

for.


--
ru
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 5:39:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

ru wrote:
> In article <yt0czghfwac8.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr>, Loonie wrote:
>> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>>
>>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe. 1
>>>> vote against. Any others?
>>
>> For.
>
> for.

2 to one ;-). I'll make a regular poll for it in the next Design Issues Post
;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 6:04:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

ru wrote:
> In article <yt0czghfwac8.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr>, Loonie wrote:
>
>>Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>>
>>
>>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>>>
>>>1 vote against. Any others?
>>
>>For.
>
> for.
>

against. Doom-tech was always almost steam-age to me (how do those
English get along without composite nouns?), so the rail gun just looks
too 'clean'. Also the rail gun (like a sniper rifle) would be a true
long-ranged (that is 400m+) weapon with a >1m barrel and a >1s firing
delay; totally unsuitable for the doom setting (even Doom's rocket
launchers are air/water powered, judging by the speed and lack of
backblast). The plasma gun OTOH is just an electromagnetically powered
flamethrower.

Lars
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 8:36:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
> Shotgun -- I finally decided for a variation of David's approach.

Obviously a man of taste and discretion. :-)

>Double shotgun will stay as it is.

I think you may need to rebalance SG/SSG damage now it decreases with
range; you don't want to find it becomes completely useless except at
pointblank.

>IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting Gun (but it
>probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?), Railgun (Cells), BFG10k
>(as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an assault rifle as a step between
>Pistol and Chaingun.

I think you should call it "submachine gun", otherwise people will
complain about it using pistol ammo.

How about - as a rare easter egg - a completely useless "flashlight" that
loads one cell, to take the mickey out of Doom III?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Teleute, February.
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 8:38:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>Glen Wheeler wrote:
>>I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>1 vote against. Any others?

Against. It's a Quake-ism. If you are going to add an accurate longrange
weapon, a sniper rifle would be more thematically appropriate.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Teleute, February.
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 9:11:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 1 Feb 2005 08:47:35 -0800, "TheWickedFlea" <thewickedflea@gmail.com>
tried to confuse everyone with this message:

>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>> 1 vote against. Any others?
>For, gimme the gun! ;) 
>
You cheater! Posted it three times :)  I'm against railgun, although I'm
all for it if QuakeRL ever gets released ;) 

--
|a\o/r|,-------------.,---------- Timofei Shatrov aka Grue ------------.
| m"a ||FC AMKAR PERM|| mail: grue at mail.ru http://grue3.tripod.com |
| k || PWNZ J00 || KoL:Grue3 NationStates:Holypunkeye |
`-----'`-------------'`-------------------------------------------[4*72]
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 9:14:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 01 Feb 2005 17:36:48 +0000 (GMT), David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> tried to confuse everyone with this
message:


>
>How about - as a rare easter egg - a completely useless "flashlight" that
>loads one cell, to take the mickey out of Doom III?

I think with the addition of darkness (which appearance seems likely
after Kornel writes new LOS code) it won't be that useless.

--
|a\o/r|,-------------.,---------- Timofei Shatrov aka Grue ------------.
| m"a ||FC AMKAR PERM|| mail: grue at mail.ru http://grue3.tripod.com |
| k || PWNZ J00 || KoL:Grue3 NationStates:Holypunkeye |
`-----'`-------------'`-------------------------------------------[4*72]
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 6:58:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Lars Kecke wrote:
> ru wrote:
>> In article <yt0czghfwac8.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr>, Loonie wrote:
>>
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>>>>
>>>> 1 vote against. Any others?
>>>
>>> For.
>>
>> for.
>>
>
> against. Doom-tech was always almost steam-age to me (how do those
> English get along without composite nouns?), so the rail gun just
> looks too 'clean'. Also the rail gun (like a sniper rifle) would be a
> true long-ranged (that is 400m+) weapon with a >1m barrel and a >1s
> firing delay; totally unsuitable for the doom setting (even Doom's
> rocket launchers are air/water powered, judging by the speed and lack
> of backblast). The plasma gun OTOH is just an electromagnetically
> powered flamethrower.

True.

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
P.S I'm currently biased against, anyone else want to comment?
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 6:59:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

TheWickedFlea wrote:
>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>> 1 vote against. Any others?
> FOR. Gimme that gun!! ;) 

Posting three times wont give you three votes, I watch the From field ;-).

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 6:59:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> On 1 Feb 2005 08:47:35 -0800, "TheWickedFlea"
> <thewickedflea@gmail.com> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>
>>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe.
>>> 1 vote against. Any others?
>> For, gimme the gun! ;) 
>>
> You cheater! Posted it three times :)  I'm against railgun, although
> I'm all for it if QuakeRL ever gets released ;) 

LOL, maybe ;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:02:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "Kornel Kisielewicz" <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
> news:ctgceu$hrr$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> [..]
>
> It is a roguelike, and how you approach this depends on your aims as
> a designer. If you are trying to replicate the doom approach, this
> isn't the way to do it.

I don't. "Bullettime" seems silly to me.

> If you want to adapt the doom approach to
> something more roguelike then some kind of dodge statistic which
> determines through a formula involving the enemy's accuracy (and
> perhaps other things) if a projectile passes through your square
> instead of hitting you seems more appropriate. The above seems
> counter-intuitive, since most dodging is performed while firing (at
> least in doom).

But as I see it, allows for some true tactical play. Anyway, we'll see how
it works when 097 will hit the shelves ;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:04:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:09:14 +0100, "Kornel Kisielewicz"
> <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>> Firing and hitting will stay the same, UNLESS the player's (and
>> only player's) last action was a move. If so, there is a chance that
>> the attacker will fire at the last spot the player was at. This will
>> only happen if the adversary uses a non-instant missle (rocket,
>> plasma, ball).
>
> This should work. At least running for cover will be semi-viable.

Especialy if you run zig-zag ;-).

>> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the
>> Doom-feel IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting
>> Gun (but it probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?),
>> Railgun (Cells), BFG10k (as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an
>> assault rifle as a step between Pistol and Chaingun.
>
> I don't think new weapons are needed, just more utility for the
> existing ones.

I'll make a poll on that.

> What you could add some variety to is barrels. In
> addition to exploding barrels, there could be barrels that spill acid
> when shot (cover the floor around them with acid), barrels that do
> nothing (make shooting through them difficult/impossible and they
> serve as extra cover), barrels that burst into flame (light up the
> level -- addition after darkness implemented), barrels that do other
> interesting things.

Hey, these are nice ideas, I'll keep them in mind!

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:13:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>> Shotgun -- I finally decided for a variation of David's approach.
>> Assault Shotgun will be no more, standard shotgun will have a
>> magazine of 4. One pressing of 'r' will pump one shell into the
>> magazine, the second one (if in a row with the previous) will reload
>> all shells (longer reload time equal to the missing shells in the
>> magazine). Double shotgun will stay as it is.
>
> So, pump-action shotgun finally? The size of magazine seems a little
> small to me however, it's 5 up to 8 in modern pump-action shotguns.

No, 4 should be enough for everybody ;-).

> The goal is obviously not to reload the magazine until the danger is
> removed.

That's why ;-).

>> New Weapons -- No grenades (they somehow don't go with the
>> Doom-feel IMHO). The only possibilities I'm left with are Lighting
>> Gun (but it probably would need to use dedicated ammo, right?),
>> Railgun (Cells), BFG10k (as a secret weapon), and (maybe,maybe) an
>> assault rifle as a step between Pistol and Chaingun.
>
> Let me guess - 10mm assault rifle? :> Seems be closer to verity than
> 10mm gatling gun, but anyway too simplified for my taste. (I might be
> deviated by Vietcong).

You are.

> Right now it's a submachine gun that has unnecessary gatling gun
> mechanism. ;-> Unrealistic - take reality, multiply by 2 and you will
> receive science-fiction, I've nothing against. If some weapon fires
> realistic ammo with realistic rate of fire doing realistic damage
> it's ok for me. Unless the gun is close in parameters to modern 2 kg
> submachine gun and is supposed to be a 50kg six(?)-barelled gatling
> gun used primarily as antiaircraft gun. Doom creators needed a weapon
> that is visually interesting and distinctive, that's why they used
> gatling gun I guess.

No comment ;-). I'm sick of this discussion, let a vote decide.

> PS. Inventory decisions are unDoomish if you ask me.

Let's see ;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 11:01:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dnia Wed, 2 Feb 2005 04:04:22 +0100, Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
> R. Dan Henry wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:09:14 +0100, "Kornel Kisielewicz"
>> <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>> What you could add some variety to is barrels. In
>> addition to exploding barrels, there could be barrels that spill acid
>> when shot (cover the floor around them with acid), barrels that do
>> nothing (make shooting through them difficult/impossible and they
>> serve as extra cover), barrels that burst into flame (light up the
>> level -- addition after darkness implemented), barrels that do other
>> interesting things.
>
> Hey, these are nice ideas, I'll keep them in mind!

Barrels that contain items so that it's sometimes good to shoot at them
even when there are monsters around...

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
February 2, 2005 4:58:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> So, pump-action shotgun finally? The size of magazine seems a little
>> small to me however, it's 5 up to 8 in modern pump-action shotguns.
> No, 4 should be enough for everybody ;-).

Depends on the damage\hit ratio anyway, but I don't suppose so.


>> Let me guess - 10mm assault rifle? :> Seems be closer to verity than
>> 10mm gatling gun, but anyway too simplified for my taste. (I might be
>> deviated by Vietcong).
> You are.

I thought so. :-) Let's look for realistic 3d shooters then.


>> Right now it's a submachine gun that has unnecessary gatling gun
>> mechanism. ;-> Unrealistic - take reality, multiply by 2 and you will
>> receive science-fiction, I've nothing against. If some weapon fires
>> realistic ammo with realistic rate of fire doing realistic damage
>> it's ok for me. Unless the gun is close in parameters to modern 2 kg
>> submachine gun and is supposed to be a 50kg six(?)-barelled gatling
>> gun used primarily as antiaircraft gun. Doom creators needed a weapon
>> that is visually interesting and distinctive, that's why they used
>> gatling gun I guess.
>
> No comment ;-). I'm sick of this discussion, let a vote decide.

As you wish. Yours are decisions and responsibility. ;-)

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
February 2, 2005 5:04:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Lars Kecke .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> ru wrote:

> against. Doom-tech was always almost steam-age to me (how do those
> English get along without composite nouns?), so the rail gun just looks
> too 'clean'. Also the rail gun (like a sniper rifle) would be a true
> long-ranged (that is 400m+) weapon with a >1m barrel and a >1s firing
> delay; totally unsuitable for the doom setting (even Doom's rocket
> launchers are air/water powered, judging by the speed and lack of
> backblast). The plasma gun OTOH is just an electromagnetically powered
> flamethrower.

....and BFG is a really a big bunch of dirty socks - very powerful
explosion. That explains why the character is unaffected by this - he has
accommodated. ;) 

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:21:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

quoting Timofei Shatrov <grue@mail.ru>:
><damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> tried to confuse everyone with this
>message:
>>How about - as a rare easter egg - a completely useless "flashlight" that
>>loads one cell, to take the mickey out of Doom III?
>I think with the addition of darkness (which appearance seems likely
>after Kornel writes new LOS code) it won't be that useless.

In that case I wouldn't have it use cells, but instead take the mickey out
of D3 by permitting the player to bolt a flashlight to some weapons; this
would make finding extra lights useful.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Oneiros, February.
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:43:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

quoting Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de>:
>backblast). The plasma gun OTOH is just an electromagnetically powered
>flamethrower.

If we _are_ going to have a non-Doom weapon, an actual flamethrower could
be amusing.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Oneiros, February.
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 9:52:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> quoting Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de>:
>> backblast). The plasma gun OTOH is just an electromagnetically
>> powered flamethrower.
>
> If we _are_ going to have a non-Doom weapon, an actual flamethrower
> could be amusing.


Yeah ;-). I think that can be done. In a visually nice way to...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz
DoomRL ( http://chaos.magma-net.pl/doom/ )
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 9:21:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Kornel Kisielewicz" <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:cto0ob$r7o$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> ru wrote:
>> In article <yt0czghfwac8.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr>, Loonie wrote:
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>>>
>>>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe. 1
>>>>> vote against. Any others?
>>>
>>> For.
>>
>> for.
>
> 2 to one ;-). I'll make a regular poll for it in the next Design Issues
> Post ;-)
>

Look, if there is ample opportunity to snipe away at opponents in DRL,
then that's a travesty against the doom feel. It should be rushed and
violent, not stealthy and snipe-ey.

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 9:21:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "Kornel Kisielewicz" <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
> news:cto0ob$r7o$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> ru wrote:
>>> In article <yt0czghfwac8.dlg@Loonie.pl.fr>, Loonie wrote:
>>>> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think a railgun has any place in the doom universe. 1
>>>>>> vote against. Any others?
>>>>
>>>> For.
>>>
>>> for.
>>
>> 2 to one ;-). I'll make a regular poll for it in the next Design
>> Issues Post ;-)
>>
>
> Look, if there is ample opportunity to snipe away at opponents in
> DRL, then that's a travesty against the doom feel. It should be
> rushed and violent, not stealthy and snipe-ey.

Agreed ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz
DoomRL ( http://chaos.magma-net.pl/doom/ )
!