Only Facts AMD or Intel which is better

[spud]

For once i want to see what is out there for a knowledge base of the amd and intel users. I want to hear facts no opinions on which one is better.

SPUD

I saw the future it gave me a big intel hug

 

[spud]

I said facts only not opinions. Im a gamer too i dont run AMD because of the motherboards have had issues and my experience with the k6-2 bla.

P3600E 440bx 256mb pc100 viper2 it works fer me

SPUD

I saw the future it gave me a big intel hug

 

[Guest]

From the very beginning all (I mean all) MS and the most software out there was and is written on Intel chips. Rest of it I let you figure out for yerself… hehehe

"akuna mutata" braza...

 

[spud]

That to me means nothin oh its optimized by a few intruction sets wow come guys your so smart tell me specs stats i dont care what you think you know i want to know what you know facts and only facts the only way we can solve the mistery of whos better

SPUD

I saw the future it gave me a big intel hug

 

[Shocwavez]

The Athlon is a fast, inexpensive alternative to the Pentium. The Athlon performs better in many of the popular benchmarks(i.e. Sysmark,etc). Intel is historically more "stable". If your a hobbiest and enjoy tweaking and primping your machine(like me!), go with Athlon. If you don't mind spending more money, want more stability, and brag that you got an Intel inside, go with Pentium. Also, Athlons are known to have heat issues but if you're even attempting to build a system, you should know how to properly cool your CPU.

:tongue: <font color=green> I LOVE INTEL. It tastes like chicken </font color=green>

 

[blah]

I repeat for Spudit people (not very smart ones), all the software is written on Intel chips. Repeat - INTEL CHIPS. Now, if you can use any of part of yer brain, you can guess, what is better, and more compatible with the software, and has better optimization, and hardware bug fixes withing the software, and ... yada, yada...
If you do not know what is reverse engineering (AMD), I could explain... heh

Post, we'll do the search...

 

[khha4113]

<b>I said facts only not opinions. Im a gamer too i dont run AMD because of the motherboards have had issues and my experience with the k6-2 bla.</b>
Yours, too, is only an opinion! IMO, You would never get facts about which one (Intel or AMD) is better but only opinions because it depends on which one suits your need!
<b>P3600E 440bx 256mb pc100 viper2 it works fer me</b>
Well, even my old K6-3@400 is good for me.

 

[Guest]

spud you really suck. if one company was clearly better the other one wouldnt be around. amd and intel both have different strengths and weaknesses. it depends what situation youre in as to what solution is right for you.



LEGAL DISCLAIMER: cape does not enable user to fly.

 

[Guest]

The truth is niether

AMD has lack of thermal protection
P4 has a weak FPU and the P3 is much better still isn't as strong as teh Athlon
AMD are a smaller company then intel and cannot supply the same quantity of CPU's to the Market.
BOTH are big corps out for profit and nothing more
Intel has more wide spread support for it's Instructions sets and has faster uptake of any new standard
AMD Makes very good CPU's
Intel Makes very good CPU's
Athlons have less chipsets around than PIII's , P4 have less than Athlons
P4 cannot yet be used to it's full potential
AMD has not yet got SMP for any of it's CPU's
P4 does not yet have SMP
AMD CPU's run hotter than intel CPU's
Athlons use more power than PIII's but P4 uses more than PIII as well.
PIII and the Athlon have hardware compatability isues , bbut the Athlon has more(Don't know about the P4)
Athlons(T'Bird) are cheaper than P4 but are a little dated now but they still are cheaper than PIII but not by much
Intel has a better Brand Name
Intel has server CPU's AMD doesn't

The truth of the matter is pick the cpu that is best for you not because it is Intel or AMD look at each CPU on it's own merits and what you are going to use it for , for god sake don't buy a CPU cos it can encode Mpeg much faster if you mainly play Quake on it.....


M

Opinions are like arseholes .... everybody’s got one....

 

[jchappj]

Fact: Intel has issued another investor warning, they will not reach their projected profit margin...again. Hmmm, is this a trend?

 

[Guest]

The fact is that it depends on what you use the system for and what your priorities are. If you are talking P-4 vs Athlon, the general concensus is that for right now the Athlon is a better performer with the majority of todays applications. This is backed up by a load of benchmarks and reviews on MANY different sites. (Aces Hardware, Anandtech, tom's etc.) They all have reached the same conclusion, and while conclusions are OPINIONS they are opionions based upon facts. This excerpt from Aces sums it up. Each chip has strengths and weaknesses:

"How do we feel about the Pentium 4? Clock for clock performance is worse than most other processors, but it’s wrong to evaluate a processor solely on that basis. What matters is all around performance, of course.

It is important to evaluate your processor needs because you won’t be able to say whether the Pentium 4 is faster (at this moment) than the competition or not. For example, it is very fast in OpenGL shoot-em-ups and race simulators, but it isn’t convincing in RTS and RPG and shoot-em-up DirectX games. It is faster than the competition in high-end 3D-software, but it takes a serious lashing in most 3D-animation desktop or low-end workstation software. The Pentium 4 shines in encoding and decoding, but falls short in a lot of popular tools for compiling, CAD and editing tools.

Over time, as more applications are optimized, either specifically for the micro-architecture via assembler-level
optimizations or are recompiled using optimized SSE2 compilers and libraries, the Pentium 4 will show better performance.
Corel Draw 10, Dragon Naturally Speaking, Rage Incoming Forces, MGI Video Wave III and The Print Shop are some of the upcoming software packages that will include SSE-2 optimizations.

Our bandwidth benchmarks clearly show what Ace’s Hardware has been pointing out in our previous articles: RAMBUS is good technology (from a controversial company), but the i820 chipset and the 133 MHz bus totally crippled it. The Pentium 4 will probably also ramp very fast in clock speed, so AMD should not rest on their laurels.

Nevertheless, the survival series is not over. The Athlon 1200 with DDR is a more balanced and less pricey solution than the Pentium 4 with Rambus. The Athlon 1200 DDR came in first or second place in every benchmark while the Pentium 4 was very capricious with some ups but more downs. Most people hate upgrading their favorite software all the time and the Athlon runs legacy applications faster. IOHO, the FPU of the Pentium 4 should have been made more powerful."

 

[Guest]

Hi,
I want to congratulate you on your question since so many questions on forums are dedicated to opinion and personal Bias..

I happen to agree with you and like to deal with facts,
so here is some info for you purely factual

If you want the best system, than AMD and some other listed components would only be considered in the middle to low end category.
you as well as others should get the following shich is the best platform bar none-------

ASUS PENTIUM 4 1.5 GHZ MB w 1.5 GHZ CPU

2x 128 Meg 800 mhz RAMBUS (this is dual channel for 3.2 GBPS bandwidth)

2x 15,000 rpm Cheatah 18 GIG Ultra 160 scsi Drives (3.8 MS
one for OS and one for software, can operate concurrently for close to 180 MBPS sustained ! )

Geforce 3 64 meg video

Kenwoood 72X Multilaser CD or Toshiba 16\48 DVD

CASE -COOLER MASTER 201 www.coolermaster.com ALL RAW ALUMINUM GIANT HEATSINK !
SB LIVE platinum 5.1
WINDOWS M.E with DD3d 8a both P4 compiled !!

this will outperform any AMD system with similiar components

RAMBUS has superior maximum bandwidth expecially dual channel where both ram modules are effectively operating at 1600 mhz concurrently

also with P4 compiled software like dd3d 8a, there is a trememdous speed gain.
P4 has dual FP units operating a 3 GHZ or 2x, and can handle more operations

also P4 has a cache prediction rate of 95% thanks to a table that is 8x times larger than P3 or AMD
it has a 20 stage pipeline and 8 way cache as
well as a 400 mhz memory bus compared with 200-266 for AMD

the INTEL 850 chipset for P4 supports AGP PRO,
and ATA 100,
supports USB 2 which is 2 times faster than USB
support for AC 97 dilivers 6 channels of audio on board
direct connection between IO hub and PCI with no overhead

any 3D app using P4 optimization will outshine anything
the industry standard Spec Mark for the P4 is 550 and its FP is 540 !
currently the fastest CPU around and over 100 points faster than AMD
the P4, will be upgradable past 2 GHZ this year !
we build thousands of high end systems for clients and test alot of hardware like TOM does, so I am speaking from hands on knowledge
hope this helps you

CAMERON

CYBERIMAGE
<A HREF="http:// http://www.4CyberImage.com " target="_new">http:// http://www.4CyberImage.com </A>
Ultra High Performance Computers-

 

[HolyGrenade]

Hmm! the first post in the thread with some facts instead of some moronic remarks.

I would however like to differ on one of you points and perhaps add a couple myself.

"AMD are a smaller company then intel and cannot supply the same quantity of CPU's to the Market."

<b>AMD did release the first Gigahertz CPU and Intel has had many difficulties in mass producing the pentium 3's & 4's.</b>


<b>new points:</b>

Intel is still tied to contracts with Rambus.
AMD still widely uses SDR SDRAM
Rambus RDRAM uses more power than SDR & DDR SDRAM.
RDRAM is expensive + not widely available
DDR SDRAM not widely available + has a few issues.
SDR SDRAM slower than the other two.


On related issues...

Everyones talking about SMP in desktop cpu's, but i really don't think its SMP (Symmetric multi processing), but instead SMT (Symmetric multi threading).

If you think i'm wrong, could you send me some links with detailed info.

<i><b><font color=red>"2 is not equal to 3, not even for large values of 2"</font color=red></b></i>

 

[Guest]

the comment about AMD being smaller is meant to cover all CPU's ie total production not the most advanced CPU but I agree AMD did release the first 1ghz CPU ....
and thanks it is noce that someone actually reads what is put in my posts...

M

Opinions are like arseholes .... everybody’s got one....

 

[Guest]

I like most of the hardware you suggest. I have always favored putting my $ into high quality components. I think that the only area we disagree on is the P-4 in it's present form. A few counterpoints with some facts to back them up:

You Said" "also P4 has a cache prediction rate of 95% thanks to a table that is 8x times larger than P3 or AMD
it has a 20 stage pipeline and 8 way cache as
well as a 400 mhz memory bus compared with 200-266 for AMD"

Actually the cache predict (branch predict) rate in the P4 is suspected to be lower than what Intel says it is and is a suspect in why it appears to exhibit low integer performance. Because of the deep pipeline, branch mispredictions carry a serious penalty in the P4. As long as the branch predictor guesses right, the deep pipeline is awesome for feeding high frequency CPU's. But it's a double edged sword. When it's wrong it causes problems and negates the effect of the better cache architecture. Aces: "Branch misprediction remains the Achilles' heel of Intels Hercules. Branch prediction happens in the first stage of the pipeline and if the processor mispredicts a branch, all the executed instructions of the wrong branch must be flushed from the processor pipeline. Only then can the processor restart the instruction execution and proceed with the correct program
branch. The deeper the pipeline, the more instructions must be flushed from the pipeline, resulting in a major performance penalty. Not only is the branch penalty 19 cycles, we found evidence that the P4's branch predictor is not nearly as fantastic as most P4 presentations claim."

"The Athlon 1200 walks all over the competition, although in theory its branch predictor should be weaker than the P4's. The "relatively short" pipeline of a 10-stage integer does the trick."

"It is very likely that branch mispredicts are killing the performance of the Pentium 4 in integer code. Look at the measurements at 8 KB (L1-cache) and 256 KB (L2-cache). In both cases, the Pentium 4 offers lower latency than the Athlon core, but even the Athlon 1100 outperforms the Pentium 4 by a significant margin. It is hard to imagine that the execution engine of the Pentium 4 would be the one to blame for this low performance. After all, ADD instructions are very common in all kinds of code, up to 50%! The Pentium 4 can issue a peak of 4 ADDs and sustain 3 of them per clockcycle."

"The possibility of branch mispredicts killing the performance of the Pentium 4 in the heapsort is somewhat disappointing as heapsort is a very common and relatively small algorithm. This is the first evidence that the branch predictor of the Pentium 4 may have a few rough edges."

You said: "Also with P4 compiled software like dd3d 8a, there is a trememdous speed gain. P4 has dual FP units operating a 3 GHZ or 2x, and can handle more operations"

Correct to some extent. But this is ONLY true if the applications are SSE2 optimised. These are not common at present. Otherwise P4 performance is mediocre. Ace's again: "The Pentium 4 must deliver superior FPU performance thanks to SSE2, a new extension that introduces 144 new SIMD instructions. The SSE unit that computes these instructions can calculate 128-bit SIMD integer arithmetic operations, but more importantly, can perform two double-precision floating point calculations per clock cycle. This means that unless an FP intensive application is SSE or SSE-2 optimized it will perform mediocre on the Pentium 4." "It appears clear that the Athlon 1200 MHz triple FPU comes out on top as the FPU marks confirm"

You said: the INTEL 850 chipset for P4 supports AGP PRO,
and ATA 100, supports USB 2 which is 2 times faster than USB
support for AC 97 dilivers 6 channels of audio on board
direct connection between IO hub and PCI with no overhead.

There are Motherboard solutions available for the Athlon that support the majority of these features. AC97, ATA 100, and AGP Pro are all available and supported. I am sure USB 2 will soon follow if it has not already."

You are correct that memory bandwidth with Rambus is superior. They finally took the hancuffs off of the technology.

Mike

 

[Guest]

Regarding RDRAM: I would like to see a lower latency before I consider RDRAM as a viable option for most things I utilize a computer for. And I would like to see what QDR is capable of (whenever it finally comes out).

Regarding processor choices: When it comes to FPU intensive applications, I'd still prefer an AMD processor to an Intel one. Otherwise, I still prefer the P3 to the P4. Intel's incredibly deep pipeline, as stated in Ace's article, makes the processor very "inflexible" (for lack of a better word).

Honestly, I agree with the specs regarding the vid card selection and HD-Controller selection, but the rest I mostly disagree with.

I think the crux of the matter is that it depends on what the system is used for as to what the best configuration is. As for 3d apps, like Max, Maybe it would be better to build a bunch of weak Duron machines (800MHz) with lots of PC133 SDRAM, then network them all together. I guarantee you'll get good rendering performance.

Charles

 

[steinbr]

Fact:
I'm working in a computer graphics studio , situated at Curitiba , Brazil.
We have 4 machines , 3 Pentiums 3-800 and a Athlon 800 (slot A).
We only run professional aplications like Discreet 3DSmax4 , Combustion , After Effects , Lightwave 6 and Photoshop.

On 3dsdmax , the athlon 800 beat the pentiums at over 30%.
While the pentiums render 100 frames of an animation , the athlon 135 frames.

The configuration its the same (256mb , Matrox G400...)

Athlons have the most powerfull FPU of the x86 market.


Facts , from a professional 3d animator...

 

[jlbigguy]

GASP! AMDMELTDOWN, FUGGER, this simply cannot be!

Perhaps computers behave differently south of the equator.

Get ready for the Fabricated Fugger Facts (FFF for short).

 

[steinbr]

again , athlons are 30% faster on 3d rendering aplications.

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

can you be more specific as I am a reg'd user of Lightwave 5.6

thanks.

"Amd cpu...Gone in 2 secs flat, it truly is a fast chip!"

 

[Tempus]

Be those facts as they may, you are wrong sir. A 1.33GHz thunderbird-C with DDR RAM on the Asus A7M266 or even better, VIA's KT266 chipset with PC2100 DDR SDRAM would woop that system in everything but Quake3 and MPEG4 flask Encoding.

- I don't write Tom's Hardware Guide, I just preach it"

 

[Nikko]

Intel and AMD both make fine products. At this time it just so happens that AMD makes processors that, for the majority of todays applications, you get better performance than any Intel chips for less money. That is the bottom line!

For myself, I also happen to look at more than just cost and system performance. I personally do not like Intel's business practices. I could write a small book on this subject alone. Trying to cram RDRAM down consumers throats is one of many reasons I stay away from Intel.

 

[spud]

Wells its nice to see that my post got some real responces the ones i was looking for. But then there is the people that turned it into a insult contest.For one "Blah" im not the smartest person in the world but i know how a processor works the minor optimizations that intel offers inhances certain aspects of a code written for it not the entire thing quake3 runs very nice on intel chips because they (dont quote me on it) have a large amount of open gl extensions its a industry standard auto cad guys dont run a d3d card the run a open gl card...Oh and thats a smart comment "spudit" damn funny ive been called lots but thats not one lmao Khha4113 my post is not a opinion it was my experince way back last year when i was looking to purchase a new machine. From all the research i did i was finding that the AMD motherboards at that time (june july if you wanna get accurate) were not up to par they had issues. Most of which i might add has been cleared up. I stress again opinion and experience are two differnt things.Mr.Man what the hell is your problem? cant read very well can you im looking to see what processor is better thats why the post is in cpu section good lord Mwebster i thank you for you info its nice to see that people are reading the post and going around gathering relavent data you sir can have yer self a good day

SPUD

I saw the future it gave me a big intel hug

 

[Nikko]

Of course you would say that. As your web site states, your company is an INTEL Pentium Processor Dealer. As an IPD you are trained to say everything you did. You did a very good job reciting Intel's Pentium 4 promotional material. Unfortunately most of it is false.

 

[spud]

Now its only fair that i go out and do some research as well so i did you guys be the judge

"P4 Core Processing Technology"
-Rapid Execution Englne (Integer)
2 Integer Double ALUs @ 2x CPU clock
Basic Integer Ops have 1/2 latency
-2 Floating Point Execution Units
1 Dedicated FPU
1 Dedicated FP Move/Store Unit
-2 Dedicated Memory Operation AGUs
SSE/SSE2 SIMD Multimedia Technology
.18u process (.13u copper for Northwood)
217 sq. mm die size at .18u
"P4 Core x86 register technology"
-8 32-bit General Purpose Registers
-8 80-bit Floating Point Data Registers
-8 64-bit MMX Registers
-8 128-bit XMM SIMD Registers (SSE/SSE2)
"P4 Cache Architecture"
-8 KB L1 data cache
Extremely low latency, 2 cycle access
4-way Associative set
-L1 Execution Cache
Capability to Buffer 12,000 Micro-Ops
-256 KB L2 cache
128 byte cache line
On-die @ full CPU speed
8-way Associative set
Can transfer every clock cycle
48 GB/s bandwidth
"P4 Vendor/Builder Concerns"
-Special Copper/Aluminum Heatsink
450+ grams
Retention Pin system
-Specially designed case
300+ Watt ATX power supply
80+ mm case fan
Venting holes at front and side
EMI grounding frame for 2+ GHz CPUs
-CPU requires 50 amps current @ 1.4 GHz
Power/Heat dissapation of 55+ Watts
"P4 Initial Offerings"
-1.4 GHz
Market: Desktop, Workstation, Server
Availability: Q4 2000
Expected Volume Price: $695
-1.5 GHz
Market: Desktop, Workstation, Server
Availability: Q4 2000
Expected Volume Price: $795
-P4 Northwood
Market: Servers, Enterprise systems
Availability: approx. Q3 2000
Expected Volume Price: unknown

The Athalon specs are on the way.

SPUD

I saw the future it gave me a a big intel hug