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[crawl] YAVP: HuGl

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Anonymous
April 12, 2005 11:48:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

About me: this is my first Crawl winner. I've probably spent most of
my roguelike time playing Angband and a couple of variants, but I've
also paid my dues to Nethack (3.1.3 and 3.2.0; never ascended) and
ADOM (I don't remember which gammas I've played; never got very far).
Like a couple of other people here I've read about while trying to
catch up on the group, I'm playing n of each race-class combination.
To be honest, I didn't expect to win anywhere near this early in the
series (you can tell from my optimistic character name). This is
technically speaking the 80th character in this series, but I had a
couple of other random characters from right around whenever I first
downloaded b26 (none scoring more than say 2000 points) and I've played
a few versions here and there all the way back to 1.00. I've also
picked up a great number of pointers from various posts read here.

Life for this character started out normally enough; stuck with the
starting trident through the initial few enchant weapon scrolls.
Decided to go with Okawaru again; between my own experience and
consensus here he seems a good choice for fighter-type characters. I'm
not convinced that he's better than Trog, (does Trog require constant
sacrifices?) but he does also hand out armor, which was useful in a few
instances.

I don't remember much of the early game. There was one annoying level
somewhere around D:12 that was wide-open and had an unseen horror on it
who very persistently tried to kill me. I had no see invisible at the
time, and would go hide in a corner, it following all the way, whereupon
I'd hit it a time or two and then it would flee invisibly in terror.

I found rings of protection and regeneration very early, and wore the
protection all the time, putting on the regen for regaining HP after
or during tough fights.

I did the Mines and set foot in the Halls, though my experience with
them with my first good character (a HuFi) was rather miserable--the
first level was fairly open and I had had to run for the stairs from
summoned hordes of demons and such a couple of times. I didn't go very
far before turning back and attending to the Lair, though I don't
believe I ever got to the bottom; Death Yaks turned back the first
couple of attempts. After finding a ring of poison resistance I
ventured into the Snake Pit.

I had a close call with a Grey Snake, but particularly after finding
the demon trident nothing else gave me too much trouble. A shop turned
up the mask of the Dragon. At some point in the Lair/Snake Pit mess,
Okawaru gave me
a - the +6,+0 halberd of Destruction
[fire damage]
It enhances your eyesight.
It lets you teleport.
It lets you sense your surroundings.
It glows with mutagenic radiation.

I took this into the Swamp, where I wasn't wearing my amulet of resist
mutation, and while it was very useful for dispatching hydras (the demon
trident wasn't quite as well enchanted) I collected a nasty bunch of
mutations (blurry vision, forget location, carnivorous, stat stat
penalties), probably because I was rather shortsightedly using it for
dissection of corpses as well as hydras. Deciding that my hydra-
killing days were mostly over at that point, I ditched it somewhere in
the Lair after retrieving the rune.

Somewhere during this time Okawaru gave me some decent pieces of ego
armor, which was just about the last useful thing he did for me
equipment-wise (I had no reason to complain about the Haste and Might).
I next moved on to the Hive, the stairs for which were roughly a dozen
steps from the entrance to the Vaults. Since I was level 19 at this
point (partly due to a couple lucky finds of potions of experience),
this posed no difficulty. I also found a potion of cure mutation, which
got rid of everything except one level of "carnivore" and the Dopey,
which I figured I could live with. I don't think I used much of
anything that I found in the Hive, but at least I had the food stockpile
to fall back on.

I went back and did a few more levels of the Halls, but decided that
with no resistances other than poison or a single level of fire (from
rings) the bottom floor was likely to be a deathtrap, so I went to the
Vaults instead. Whether or not this was a good idea, I'm not sure. I
played around the first level of the Crypt a bit, and had a couple of
close calls while killing my first curse skull, but as there isn't a
rune in there I decided to press on with the Vaults (I had absolutely no
intention of going into the Tomb, from what I've heard about it).

I think I ran into Xtahua somewhere on Vaults 6 or 7. Fortunately I had
enough time to duck behind a wall and swap in my ring of fire resistance
before the fight really got started. Vaults 8 was somewhat dicey, but I
managed to clear it somehow, picking up the randart swamp dragon armor
and amulet in the process. I had to give up some AC for the armor (I'd
been wearing a +4 plate mail), but I figured the resists made it a
worthwhile trade.

After surfacing from the Vaults I figured I could dive a bit in the
Dungeon, and that was pretty much the rest of the game. I stopped off
in the Vestibule of Hell and must agree with everyone who says Geryon's
a big wuss, but I did not explore any of the rest of Hell.

I dithered a little bit before entering Zot, but the monsters there
turned out to be fairly manageable (if tough). Zot 5 held several
terrors, including an Orb of Fire that gifted me with teleportitis and
removed my last level of "carnivore" (as well as beating me most of the
way to death). By most rights I think I should've died there, either
when I got teleported into one of the large rooms or when I went down
for the final time after retreating to refill my HP (is there *anything*
a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport traps?), but my first
teleport on that trip bounced me directly into the Orb room, where I was
able to dispose of a Klown and a couple of Guardians before grabbing the
Orb and bailing (the Guardians also almost killed me).

Teleport control made the ascent pretty easy. I did kill an executioner
on the way up, but I didn't stop for much of anything else...

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

ae00000E the Halberdier (Human)
(Level 27 Gladiator)

Play time: 11:56:01 Number of turns: 88976

Experience : 27/866568
Strength 21 Dexterity 20 Intelligence 9
Hit Points : 213 Magic Points : 36
AC : 19 Evasion : 10 Shield : 0
GP : 4302

You escaped.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
// Made this myself; still not sure what the high-end polearms are...
a - a +4,+5 halberd of chopping (945 gold)
b - a +1,+1 bow of flame (287 gold)
// Found in the Snake Pit, though not at this level of enchantment
R - a +5,+5 demon trident of electrocution (weapon) (4795 gold)

Missiles
W - 8 poisoned +1 arrows (32 gold)

Armour
i - the +0 mask of the Dragon (worn) (317 gold)
A blue mask.
It affects your accuracy (+2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
It protects you from magic.
It enhances your eyesight.
w - the +0 pair of boots of Wondrous Power (258 gold)
It affects your dexterity (+4).
y - a +0 pair of gloves of strength (worn) (61 gold)
C - a +0 cloak (worn) (15 gold)
// Found on Vaults 8
N - the +2 swamp dragon armour of the Armoured One (worn) (1707 gold)
It protects you from cold.
It insulates you from electricity.
It protects you from magic.
Q - a +1 pair of boots of levitation (worn) (132 gold)

Magical devices
// Ran out before the last time into the breach on Zot 5, natch
d - a wand of hasting (0) (3 gold)
o - a wand of healing (3) (48 gold)
q - a wand of disintegration (10) (171 gold)
u - a wand of digging (8) (78 gold)
E - a wand of healing (2) (39 gold)
J - a wand of fireball (4) (120 gold)
M - a wand of cold (2) (63 gold)
T - a wand of digging (3) (48 gold)
// Used to help get me out of Zot once I had the Orb, and also on a
// couple of other floors where the upstairs looked too far away to
// bother with
Y - a wand of teleportation (1) (36 gold)

Comestibles
// I actually had about a zillion more jobbies of food from the Hive,
// etc., but this being my first win I didn't really want to stop for
// anything on the way up.
c - 2 meat rations (80 gold)
j - 4 pears (32 gold)
l - 7 apples (56 gold)
s - 4 bread rations (160 gold)
F - 2 lychees (8 gold)
G - 7 honeycombs (175 gold)
K - 4 grapes (4 gold)
O - 11 strawberries (11 gold)
V - 2 royal jellies (240 gold)

Scrolls
g - a scroll of blinking (30 gold)
B - 4 scrolls of identify (80 gold)

Jewellery
f - a +4,+2 ring of slaying (770 gold)
// Found very early on, worn sparingly at first and then traded out on
// a fairly regular basis with a ring of poison resistance (which I
// ditched after I got the swamp dragon armor). I wore it pretty much
// all the time after I got the swamp dragon armor; since I was
// carnivorous for most of that time, food wasn't an issue.
n - a ring of regeneration (left hand) (525 gold)
p - a ring of protection from cold (210 gold)
// Found on Vaults 8. Never used the berserking or invisibility...
r - the amulet "Yde" (around neck) (938 gold)
[gourmand]
It protects you from fire.
It greatly protects you from cold.
It protects you from magic.
It lets you turn invisible.
It lets you go berserk.
t - an amulet of controlled flight (175 gold)
v - an amulet of resist mutation (210 gold)
z - an amulet of resist corrosion (210 gold)
// I only used this after I grabbed the Orb
D - a ring of teleport control (right hand) (294 gold)
// I wore this for pretty much the entire game
H - a +4 ring of protection (350 gold)

Potions
// Yeah, I seriously went into Zot 5 the last time with a single potion
// of heal wounds and one of Might, plus these... :-P
k - 6 potions of healing (120 gold)
I - a potion of restore abilities (50 gold)

Magical staves
// I think I used my only scroll of acquirement on this. I wasn't sure
// what else to go for...
P - a rod of discovery (150 gold)

Orbs of Power
x - the Orb of Zot (250000 gold)

Miscellaneous
e - a decaying rune of Zot (10000 gold)
m - the horn of Geryon (5000 gold)
A - a serpentine rune of Zot (10000 gold)
Z - a silver rune of Zot (10000 gold)

You have 5196 experience left.
Skills:
+ Level 15 Fighting
- Level 1 Short Blades
* Level 27 Polearms

+ Level 10 Bows
- Level 3 Darts
+ Level 7 Throwing

+ Level 14 Armour
+ Level 1 Stabbing
+ Level 5 Shields

+ Level 10 Traps & Doors
// Not sure how much this actually affected my combat effectiveness, but
// it did liven up the combat, particularly since I couldn't use the
// (as Darshan calls it) pillowcase!!! technique with my weapon :-)
+ Level 9 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 1 Spellcasting

+ Level 11 Invocations
+ Level 11 Evocations

You have 27 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Success Level
// Considered very briefly; didn't realize at the time that I learned
// this that Okawaru doesn't like minions being killed. Cast a few
// times for practice (not while wearing heavy armor, before you ask),
// then totally unused.
a - Summon Small Mammals Summoning Poor 1

Mutations & Other Weirdness
You are weak (Str -1).
You are dopey (Int -2).
Space occasionally distorts in your vicinity.

-Andrew (who was somewhat rambling, he realizes)

More about : crawl yavp hugl

Anonymous
April 13, 2005 5:59:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker wrote:
> About me: this is my first Crawl winner.

Congratulations!

> To be honest, I didn't expect to win anywhere near this early in the
> series (you can tell from my optimistic character name).

:-)

> Life for this character started out normally enough; stuck with the
> starting trident through the initial few enchant weapon scrolls.

Interesting. I usually try to hold out for a rare weapon to apply my
scrolls to, but obvioulsy, your strategy worked. ;-)

> I'm not convinced that [Oki's] better than Trog, (does Trog require
constant
> sacrifices?)

Trog likes *precisely* the same things as Oki does, except that you get
bonus piety for killing spellcasters while praying. (Unfortunately,
many or most users of spell-like effects are not spellcasters.)

> I don't remember much of the early game. There was one annoying
level
> somewhere around D:12 that was wide-open and had an unseen horror on
it
> who very persistently tried to kill me. I had no see invisible at
the
> time, and would go hide in a corner, it following all the way,
whereupon
> I'd hit it a time or two and then it would flee invisibly in terror.

What I've been doing in my current game, which has not seen a single
=oSI so far (and I've got three runes already...), is to zap a wand of
digging at the wall around the level, and use the resulting corridor to
kill the UH.

> ...I attend[ed] to the Lair, though I don't
> believe I ever got to the bottom; Death Yaks turned back the first
> couple of attempts.

A shame you never returned. Death Yaks are a joke for a high-level
fighter, and you can find some nice loot down there. But obviously, you
didn't need it anyway. :-)

> I took [a flaming but mutagenic randart halberd] into the Swamp,
where I
> wasn't wearing my amulet of resist mutation, and while it was very
useful
> for dispatching hydras (the demon trident wasn't quite as well
enchanted)

Well above all, it wasn't flaming, and if I recall correctly, it's not
an edged weapon, so it would be doubly inappropriate against hydras.

> I collected a nasty bunch of mutations (blurry vision, forget
location,
> carnivorous, stat stat penalties),

Remember, it's all fun and games until somebody gets teleportitis!
Although forget location is nearly as bad; it usually can't kill you
like teleportitis can, but it wreaks havoc with Darshan's
travel/explore commands, making me *wish* I were dead when I have it.

> [I eventually] got rid of everything except one level of "carnivore"
and the
> Dopey, which I figured I could live with.

No spells, no use for intelligence except as a buffer against attacks
on INT.

> I went back and did a few more levels of the Halls, but decided that
> with no resistances other than poison or a single level of fire (from
> rings) the bottom floor was likely to be a deathtrap,

I find it to be nearly impossible without either a powerful ranged
attack, silencing, or huge buffness, preferably evasion-based buffness.
With an AC-based defense, if you get cut down to about 80 HP and an
annihilator picks the Lightning Bolt spell out of his hat -- especially
while you're in the corridor leading to the big chamber -- you're
pretty much toast.

> so I went to the
> Vaults instead. Whether or not this was a good idea, I'm not sure.

Considering that the Elven Halls can no longer net you a third rune,
I'd say it was a very good idea. ;-)

> I played around the first level of the Crypt a bit, and had a couple
of
> close calls while killing my first curse skull, but as there isn't a
> rune in there I decided to press on with the Vaults (I had absolutely
no
> intention of going into the Tomb, from what I've heard about it).

Funny, I see a lot of people scared of the Crypt. Maybe it's different
for Okawarites, but there's not a single threat in there that a
Troglodyte will lack a response to if he has a response to the usual
threats of the Vault. The scary part is, of course, curse skulls, and
berserking is a tremendous help here, but I imagine a mighted, hasted
Okawarite would do just as well (and would benefit from not suffering
the restrictions of berserking and of berserkers overall).

[Tomb]

It is *possible* to clear the Tomb with a non-Undead and even a
non-summoner and even, as I recently discovered, a non-Elyvilonite.
(Did it with a Troglodyte who found and used lots of rods.) However,
it's like an adrenaline sport combined with an end-of-semester math
test.

> [I cleared Vault 8], picking up the randart swamp dragon armor
> and amulet in the process. I had to give up some AC for the armor
(I'd
> been wearing a +4 plate mail), but I figured the resists made it a
> worthwhile trade.

I'd agree.

> By most rights I think I should've died [in Zot 5], either
> when I got teleported into one of the large rooms or when I went down
> for the final time after retreating to refill my HP (is there
*anything*
> a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport traps?),

This:
P - a rod of discovery (150 gold)

Otherwise -- Traps and Doors skill.

Or just learn a bit of Divinations; swamp dragon armour is among the
least spell-hindering heavy armour, and since divining spells need not
be cast mid-combat, you can carry a staff of wizardry and appropriate
rings to squeeze you up to the point where you can cast Detect Traps.

> Inventory:
> Hand weapons
> // Made this myself; still not sure what the high-end polearms are...

Considering all factors invovled, demon tridents are as good as it
gets. Sad, isn't it?

> [nice randarts]
Nice randarts!

> r - the amulet "Yde" (around neck) (938 gold)
> [gourmand]
> It protects you from fire.
> It greatly protects you from cold.
> It protects you from magic.
> It lets you turn invisible.
> It lets you go berserk.
> // Found on Vaults 8. Never used the berserking or invisibility...

A shame; berserking is really powerful. "Casual" berserkers, those who
just do it on the basis of a randart or potions, have a fairly high
risk of passing out after berserking, but in situations where the
remaining options are equally risky or where your chances of being
attacked after it wears out are small, it can be useful.

Erik
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 9:37:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie wrote:
> Lars Kecke .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
> >> (is there *anything* a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport
traps?),
> > A high level of T&D skill to detect them and a PREVENT_TELEPORT
randart
> > to walk over them. Oki should've dropped you one.
>
> They aren't so bad IMO, normally they work only once, could also be
used as
> good emergency escape.

They work multiple times. They are indeed a good emergency escape,
though, especially on the early levels of the dungeon. When you can't
withstand even one more turn of melee attacks, a teleport trap will
save you and a teleport scroll will not.

> Loonie
[...]
> http://www.crawl.webpark.pl

You're my hero, Loonie, for making that site. :-)

Incidentally, the web page with PowerPro is no longer a valid address,
and I never found any others that offered it for download, so you may
want to adjust the relevant portion of your site accordingly. I was
fortunate enough to catch it while it was still available, and I use a
slightly modified version of your setup to this day ("Dissect yes get
all" takes my F1 key, and the spell bindings are all shifted by one).
Marvelously useful.

Erik
Related resources
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 11:17:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Lars Kecke wrote:
> Loonie wrote:
> > Erik Piper .-- .-. --- - . ---...
> >
> >
> >>>[Teletraps] aren't so bad IMO, normally they work only once, could
also be
> >>>used as good emergency escape.
> >>
> >>They work multiple times.
> >
> > I meant that usually you trigger them once and later are visible
and
> > avoided most of the time. :) 
>
> Unless they show up in corridors, which may render large potions of
the
> level inaccessible. Incidentially this is the case in Zot 5 and quite
a
> few vaults.
>
> Lars

In a corridor with ordinary rock walls (the case for a large percentage
of vaults), bypassing the trap via wand or }oEE is trivial. In several
vault types, the vault design provides an alternative solution to
passing through the trap. If you find a source of teleport control by
the endgame, you can use that to reach the remaining parts of the
level. That leaves Zot:5 as the only case you mention for which there
is no solution for those who can't cast any spells (unless you count
blinking via randart or mutation). I can't recall which part of the
layout can/will contain teleport traps, but in any case my recollection
is one of, though I've had many problems there (so many that I've never
survived it), not running into a really problematic teleport trap in
there.

Erik
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 3:42:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker wrote:
> About me: this is my first Crawl winner.

Congrats. I still get killed after 2 runes.

> After finding a ring of poison resistance I
> ventured into the Snake Pit.

So you didn't make yourself a swamp dragon armour on swamp1?

> Okawaru gave me
> a - the +6,+0 halberd of Destruction
> [fire damage]
> It enhances your eyesight.
> It lets you teleport.
> It lets you sense your surroundings.
> It glows with mutagenic radiation.

ouch. I would't touch it with a ten feet pole; I am always low on
!ocureM. Btw. How does a polearm fighter feel like? I always went for
axes and maces.

> (is there *anything* a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport traps?),

A high level of T&D skill to detect them and a PREVENT_TELEPORT randart
to walk over them. Oki should've dropped you one.

Lars
April 13, 2005 4:33:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Lars Kecke .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> (is there *anything* a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport traps?),
> A high level of T&D skill to detect them and a PREVENT_TELEPORT randart
> to walk over them. Oki should've dropped you one.

They aren't so bad IMO, normally they work only once, could also be used as
good emergency escape.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
April 13, 2005 7:30:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper .-- .-. --- - . ---...

>> They aren't so bad IMO, normally they work only once, could also be
>> used as
>> good emergency escape.
>
> They work multiple times.

I meant that usually you trigger them once and later are visible and
avoided most of the time. :) 


> They are indeed a good emergency escape,
> though, especially on the early levels of the dungeon. When you can't
> withstand even one more turn of melee attacks, a teleport trap will
> save you and a teleport scroll will not.

Exactly.


>> Loonie
>> http://www.crawl.webpark.pl

> You're my hero, Loonie, for making that site. :-)

:)  Thanks, this is most encouraging. I had some plans for other spoilers,
but got occupied by other games and a bit lazy too. I still find Crawl
mechanics very interesting to explore.


> Incidentally, the web page with PowerPro is no longer a valid address,
> and I never found any others that offered it for download, so you may
> want to adjust the relevant portion of your site accordingly. I was
> fortunate enough to catch it while it was still available, and I use a
> slightly modified version of your setup to this day ("Dissect yes get
> all" takes my F1 key, and the spell bindings are all shifted by one).
> Marvelously useful.

It's very useful indeed, I've found another site that distributes PowerPro,
even newer version, so I'll update my site accordingly, thanks for the
info. The address is:

http://powerpro.webeddie.com/xdownload.shtml

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 7:52:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie wrote:
> Erik Piper .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
>
>>>[Teletraps] aren't so bad IMO, normally they work only once, could also be
>>>used as good emergency escape.
>>
>>They work multiple times.
>
> I meant that usually you trigger them once and later are visible and
> avoided most of the time. :) 

Unless they show up in corridors, which may render large potions of the
level inaccessible. Incidentially this is the case in Zot 5 and quite a
few vaults.

Lars
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 11:57:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <1113382792.352046.38030@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Erik Piper <erik@sky.cz> wrote:
>Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker wrote:
>> Life for this character started out normally enough; stuck with the
>> starting trident through the initial few enchant weapon scrolls.
>
>Interesting. I usually try to hold out for a rare weapon to apply my
>scrolls to, but obvioulsy, your strategy worked. ;-)

I've tried that before, but since I didn't know what the nifty
polearms were and I seem to have a fairly high rate of attrition on
scrolls (a pox on centaurs with elemental bows, anyway). I did save a
few for the halberd and demon trident.

>> I'm not convinced that [Oki's] better than Trog, (does Trog require
>constant
>> sacrifices?)
>
>Trog likes *precisely* the same things as Oki does, except that you get
>bonus piety for killing spellcasters while praying. (Unfortunately,
>many or most users of spell-like effects are not spellcasters.)

Trog's description lacks the line about "constantly proving onesself
in battle", so I wasn't sure if he had a piety falloff over time. I
guess, now that I think about it, that I recall one from looking at that
part of the code.

[unseen horror in open level]
>What I've been doing in my current game, which has not seen a single
>=oSI so far (and I've got three runes already...), is to zap a wand of
>digging at the wall around the level, and use the resulting corridor to
>kill the UH.

Ah! That's a neat idea.

>> ...I attend[ed] to the Lair, though I don't
>> believe I ever got to the bottom; Death Yaks turned back the first
>> couple of attempts.
>
>A shame you never returned. Death Yaks are a joke for a high-level
>fighter, and you can find some nice loot down there. But obviously, you
>didn't need it anyway. :-)

It wasn't that I thought I couldn't take them (I actually got most of
them on the second attempt), but it never seemed like it was worth the
effort. A previous character had been to the bottom of the Lair and I
wasn't terribly impressed with the loot, but my memory may not have
picked up on the goodies...
It could've been good for my peace of mind, though--the character
above died through carelessness and lack of cold resistance, so I wasn't
exactly cool with diving in the vaults with no resistances...

>> I took [a flaming but mutagenic randart halberd] into the Swamp,
>>where I wasn't wearing my amulet of resist mutation, and while it was
>>very useful for dispatching hydras (the demon trident wasn't quite as
>>well enchanted)
>
>Well above all, it wasn't flaming, and if I recall correctly, it's not
>an edged weapon, so it would be doubly inappropriate against hydras.

Non-flaming edged weapons ar *bad* against hydras, aren't they? I
certainly killed a few hydras with the demon trident later on...

[mutations]
>Remember, it's all fun and games until somebody gets teleportitis!
>Although forget location is nearly as bad; it usually can't kill you
>like teleportitis can, but it wreaks havoc with Darshan's
>travel/explore commands, making me *wish* I were dead when I have it.

Ah. I'm playing unpatched, so I do not know the wonder of travel
and/or explore :-)

>> so I went to the
>> Vaults instead. Whether or not this was a good idea, I'm not sure.
>
>Considering that the Elven Halls can no longer net you a third rune,
>I'd say it was a very good idea. ;-)

:-)

>> I played around the first level of the Crypt a bit, and had a couple
>> of close calls while killing my first curse skull, but as there isn't
>> a rune in there I decided to press on with the Vaults (I had
>> absolutely no intention of going into the Tomb, from what I've heard
>> about it).
>
>Funny, I see a lot of people scared of the Crypt. Maybe it's different
>for Okawarites, but there's not a single threat in there that a
>Troglodyte will lack a response to if he has a response to the usual
>threats of the Vault. The scary part is, of course, curse skulls, and
>berserking is a tremendous help here, but I imagine a mighted, hasted
>Okawarite would do just as well (and would benefit from not suffering
>the restrictions of berserking and of berserkers overall).

No, I don't think it's any different for followers of Okawaru. The
curse skull was the only thing that gave me much trouble (though I
wasn't exactly mopping the floor with skeletal warriors). I was just
uneasy that I'd do something really dumb around the next one I ran
into...

>[Tomb]
>
>It is *possible* to clear the Tomb with a non-Undead and even a
>non-summoner and even, as I recently discovered, a non-Elyvilonite.
>(Did it with a Troglodyte who found and used lots of rods.) However,
>it's like an adrenaline sport combined with an end-of-semester math
>test.

That's odd, I thought end-of-semester math tests *were* adrenaline
sports :-) :-)

>> By most rights I think I should've died [in Zot 5], either
>> when I got teleported into one of the large rooms or when I went down
>> for the final time after retreating to refill my HP (is there
>*anything*
>> a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport traps?),
>
>This:
>P - a rod of discovery (150 gold)
>
>Otherwise -- Traps and Doors skill.

Oh. To clarify, yes, I detected the teleportation traps. My question
is, is there any way to get around the ones on Zot 5? You can't dig
without Shatter or whatever it is that destroys stone walls, and
teleportation traps can't be disarmed, I don't think. I certainly can't
cast Tomb of What's-His-Name to destroy them...

>> Inventory:
>> Hand weapons
>> // Made this myself; still not sure what the high-end polearms are...
>
>Considering all factors invovled, demon tridents are as good as it
>gets. Sad, isn't it?

Indeed. My other question, then, is: should I have been wearing a
shield? I tried putting one on later in the game, but I wasn't sure how
much it was doing for me compared to (as I recall) restricting unarmed
attacks and making it a royal pain to dissect stuff (that's most of what
I was using the halberd of chopping for, embarasing as it sounds).

>> [nice randarts]
>Nice randarts!

That's what I said :-)

Thanks for the comments!

-Andrew ()
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 12:02:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <425CE99E.1020901@physik.uni-freiburg.de>,
Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
>Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker wrote:
>> After finding a ring of poison resistance I
>> ventured into the Snake Pit.
>
>So you didn't make yourself a swamp dragon armour on swamp1?

No. I didn't realize (stupidly) that offering up dragon corpses
eliminates any chance of them giving hides, and once I did get a
(dragon) hide I never saw any enchant armor scrolls (until after I'd
found the randart). I *should* have had ?EA, but I had a stack of three
of them burned coming out of the Swamp (I meant to go cache them
somewhere and it slipped my mind for just long enough...)

>> Okawaru gave me
>> a - the +6,+0 halberd of Destruction
>> [fire damage]
>> It enhances your eyesight.
>> It lets you teleport.
>> It lets you sense your surroundings.
>> It glows with mutagenic radiation.
>
>ouch. I would't touch it with a ten feet pole; I am always low on
>!ocureM. Btw. How does a polearm fighter feel like? I always went for
>axes and maces.

It seemed like the last good character I had was doing better at
killing stuff (electrocution is nothing if not high-variance), but then
he had a randart fire-branded katana... (naturally I saw a triple sword
for sale pretty late this game).

-Andrew ()
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 6:15:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker wrote:

> [I have trouble saving ?ofEnchantWeapon for later use because] I seem
to have
> a fairly high rate of attrition on scrolls (a pox on centaurs with
elemental
> bows, anyway). I did save a few for the halberd and demon trident.

I take the acquisition of ANY scroll of enchant foo that can't be
efficiently used immediately, my first scroll of vorpalize weapon, and
any potion of cure mutation as an indicator that it's time to go back
to my stash. Helps a lot. (Without the Darshan patch, the effort
involved in returning to the stash may be a disincentive? It's been a
long time since I played without it, but that's my recollection.)

> >> ...I attend[ed] to the Lair, though I don't
> >> believe I ever got to the bottom; Death Yaks turned back the first
> >> couple of attempts.
> >
> >A shame you never returned. Death Yaks are a joke for a high-level
> >fighter, and you can find some nice loot down there. But obviously,
you
> >didn't need it anyway. :-)
>
> It wasn't that I thought I couldn't take them (I actually got most
of
> them on the second attempt), but it never seemed like it was worth
the
> effort. A previous character had been to the bottom of the Lair and
I
> wasn't terribly impressed with the loot, but my memory may not have
> picked up on the goodies...

The bottom levels aren't any thicker in goodies than the rest of the
Lair is, but the Lair overall is on average relatively rich in goodies.

> It could've been good for my peace of mind, though--the character
> above died through carelessness and lack of cold resistance, so I
wasn't
> exactly cool with diving in the vaults with no resistances...
>
> >> I took [a flaming but mutagenic randart halberd] into the Swamp,
> >>where I wasn't wearing my amulet of resist mutation, and while it
was
> >>very useful for dispatching hydras (the demon trident wasn't quite
as
> >>well enchanted)
> >
> >Well above all, it wasn't flaming, and if I recall correctly, it's
not
> >an edged weapon, so it would be doubly inappropriate against hydras.
>
> Non-flaming edged weapons ar *bad* against hydras, aren't they? I
> certainly killed a few hydras with the demon trident later on...

Maybe blunt/piercing weapons are neutral in this respect; I rarely play
with them so I may have misremembered. Edged non-flaming weapons, at
least, are murder -- cut off one head, it grows two.

> [mutations]
> >Remember, it's all fun and games until somebody gets teleportitis!
> >Although forget location is nearly as bad; it usually can't kill you
> >like teleportitis can, but it wreaks havoc with Darshan's
> >travel/explore commands, making me *wish* I were dead when I have
it.
>
> Ah. I'm playing unpatched, so I do not know the wonder of travel
> and/or explore :-)

If you don't plan to retire on your laurels, I'd strongly recommend it.
No gameplays, just sheer interface goodness. Quick download,
installation is nothing but an overwrite of a few files, learning
process is mostly a glanceover of the readme and a little trial and
error. I do believe it's helped my game, and it's certainly taken a lot
of the annoyances out of playing.

> >> [Got scared early on in the Crypt and bailed; no intention of
doing Tomb,
> >> baby]

> > [Crypt's not so bad for a troglodyte, maybe not for Okawarite
either]

> No, I don't think it's any different for followers of Okawaru. The
> curse skull was the only thing that gave me much trouble (though I
> wasn't exactly mopping the floor with skeletal warriors). I was just
> uneasy that I'd do something really dumb around the next one I ran
> into...

The warriors hit hard and take a lot of damage, but by that point, so
does a fighter. And that's all they do, except for animating corpses --
which are rare in the Crypt anyway, and the few corpses that are
generated are usually something from something weak. It's mostly my
conjurers that are at risk from them (they resist all the cheap spells,
and they often come in groups, making it risky to use the expensive
ones).

The skulls -- you're right, a dumb mistake (spending too much time
unnecessarily in their LOS, for example) can make these murder. I still
find them to be worth it, above all for the experience points. But
then, I'm the sort of player who does the Tomb with non-undead
non-summoners for fun. :-) (And then reliably dies on Zot:5, if not
earlier.)

> >[Tomb]
> >
> >It is *possible* to clear the Tomb with a non-Undead and even a
> >non-summoner and even, as I recently discovered, a non-Elyvilonite.
> >(Did it with a Troglodyte who found and used lots of rods.) However,
> >it's like an adrenaline sport combined with an end-of-semester math
> >test.
>
> That's odd, I thought end-of-semester math tests *were* adrenaline
> sports :-) :-)

I'm thinking more on the order of doing such tests while bungee
jumping. :-)

> >> By most rights I think I should've died [in Zot 5], either
> >> when I got teleported into one of the large rooms or when I went
down
> >> for the final time after retreating to refill my HP (is there
> >*anything*
> >> a non-spellcaster can do about the teleport traps?),
> >
> >This:
> >P - a rod of discovery (150 gold)
> >
> >Otherwise -- Traps and Doors skill.
>
> Oh. To clarify, yes, I detected the teleportation traps. My
question
> is, is there any way to get around the ones on Zot 5? You can't dig
> without Shatter or whatever it is that destroys stone walls, and
> teleportation traps can't be disarmed, I don't think. I certainly
can't
> cast Tomb of What's-His-Name to destroy them...

Blink past them. As an Okawarite, you're allowed to do it via spell,
rather than having to find it on a randart. Here again, you can
probably afford to swap in some rings, blink, swap them back out. Or if
you made it to the endgame with a cornucopia of scrolls of blinking,
you might want to blow some despite the uncontrolled teleportation. You
can't take them with you, after all...

I must confess, I never even knew/remembered the traps were there. My
first zotfiver was a conjurer and my second was a crusader (and saddled
with teleportitis to boot), which is probably why I didn't notice --
too many other things going on...

> >> Inventory:
> >> Hand weapons
> >> // Made this myself; still not sure what the high-end polearms
are...
> >
> >Considering all factors invovled, demon tridents are as good as it
> >gets. Sad, isn't it?
>
> Indeed. My other question, then, is: should I have been wearing a
> shield? I tried putting one on later in the game, but I wasn't sure
how
> much it was doing for me compared to (as I recall) restricting
unarmed
> attacks and making it a royal pain to dissect stuff (that's most of
what
> I was using the halberd of chopping for, embarasing as it sounds).

Polearms tend to be hand-and-a-half (if not outright 2-handed), and
thus beneft unusually much from not wearing a shield (nothing huge, but
not insignificant). You also left out a lot of the optional areas, so
you might have suffered from the XP drain of the shield skill as well.
Barring an ueber-cool randart shield, I'd've done exactly what you did
do.

Cheers,

Erik
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 7:32:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > The warriors hit hard and take a lot of damage, but by that point,
so
> > does a fighter. And that's all they do, except for animating
corpses --
> > which are rare in the Crypt anyway...
>
> Do you have any idea how strange that sounds? :) 

I think there is very little in the way of roguelike discussions that
wouldn't sound strange to someone from outside the genre. I mean c'mon,
"I ran into a big D and started sweating bullets," and things like
that?

In this particular case, it's simply a question of the facts that the
Crypt almost always contain nothing but the undead, and the undead in
Crawl generally don't leave the-object-category-termed-"corpses". :-)

Erik
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 9:52:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> The warriors hit hard and take a lot of damage, but by that point, so
> does a fighter. And that's all they do, except for animating corpses --
> which are rare in the Crypt anyway...

Do you have any idea how strange that sounds? :) 

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 11:23:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

aps@turing.cs.hmc.edu (Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker) wrote in message news:<115o9gv2urs3be9@corp.supernews.com>...
> About me: this is my first Crawl winner. I've probably spent most of
> my roguelike time playing Angband and a couple of variants, but I've
> also paid my dues to Nethack (3.1.3 and 3.2.0; never ascended) and
> ADOM (I don't remember which gammas I've played; never got very far).

Congratulations!

It seems most Crawl players have played a fair amount of other
roguelikes.

> Life for this character started out normally enough; stuck with the
> starting trident through the initial few enchant weapon scrolls.
> Decided to go with Okawaru again; between my own experience and
> consensus here he seems a good choice for fighter-type characters. I'm
> not convinced that he's better than Trog, (does Trog require constant
> sacrifices?) but he does also hand out armor, which was useful in a few
> instances.

They're quite similar, but it depends on what kind of fighter you're
playing. Berserking is powerful, but you lose magic. Both will shower
you with more weapons and armour than you'll ever use (and in some
cases, armour you can't use).

> I had a close call with a Grey Snake, but particularly after finding
> the demon trident nothing else gave me too much trouble.

Grey and black snakes (less so) are very nasty if you're not prepared
for how hard they hit. Detect Creatures is not a big help either,
they're all S:s.

> Somewhere during this time Okawaru gave me some decent pieces of ego
> armor, which was just about the last useful thing he did for me
> equipment-wise (I had no reason to complain about the Haste and Might).
> I next moved on to the Hive, the stairs for which were roughly a dozen
> steps from the entrance to the Vaults. Since I was level 19 at this
> point (partly due to a couple lucky finds of potions of experience),
> this posed no difficulty. I also found a potion of cure mutation, which
> got rid of everything except one level of "carnivore" and the Dopey,
> which I figured I could live with. I don't think I used much of
> anything that I found in the Hive, but at least I had the food stockpile
> to fall back on.

One level of carnivore is actually a good mutation: it means you
basically just got an amulet of the gourmand.

> After surfacing from the Vaults I figured I could dive a bit in the
> Dungeon, and that was pretty much the rest of the game. I stopped off
> in the Vestibule of Hell and must agree with everyone who says Geryon's
> a big wuss, but I did not explore any of the rest of Hell.

Probably a wise choice for a YAFVP.

> ae00000E the Halberdier (Human)
> (Level 27 Gladiator)

Polearm-wielding Human as a first winner? Not very common.

> Strength 21 Dexterity 20 Intelligence 9
> Hit Points : 213 Magic Points : 36
> AC : 19 Evasion : 10 Shield : 0
> GP : 4302

Not very high AC or EV. Didn't you find enough ?EA? (I can see below
that you could have had another 4 AC if you had enhanced all your
enchantable armour.) Many of my spellcasters have similar AC. :) 

> Comestibles
> // I actually had about a zillion more jobbies of food from the Hive,
> // etc., but this being my first win I didn't really want to stop for
> // anything on the way up.
> c - 2 meat rations (80 gold)
> j - 4 pears (32 gold)
> l - 7 apples (56 gold)
> s - 4 bread rations (160 gold)
> F - 2 lychees (8 gold)
> G - 7 honeycombs (175 gold)
> K - 4 grapes (4 gold)
> O - 11 strawberries (11 gold)
> V - 2 royal jellies (240 gold)

You could make a nice fruit salad with that. :) 

> Magical staves
> // I think I used my only scroll of acquirement on this. I wasn't sure
> // what else to go for...
> P - a rod of discovery (150 gold)

Could have been worse.

> Mutations & Other Weirdness
> You are weak (Str -1).
> You are dopey (Int -2).
> Space occasionally distorts in your vicinity.

The last one is a real player killer it seems. It might be different
if you could trigger it yourself (IIRC you can't), but as it now it's
not reliable enough for emergency escapes.

/Johan
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 12:19:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik spammed r.g.r.m with the following in his string of incessant
posts:

Johan Strandell wrote:
> aps@turing.cs.hmc.edu (Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker) wrote in message
news:<115o9gv2urs3be9@corp.supernews.com>...

> > I'm not convinced that [Oki's] better than Trog, (does Trog require

> > constant sacrifices?) but he does also hand out armor, which was
useful in
> > a few instances.
>
> They're quite similar, but it depends on what kind of fighter you're
> playing. Berserking is powerful, but you lose magic. Both will shower
> you with more weapons and armour than you'll ever use (and in some
> cases, armour you can't use).

Trog doesn't grant armour at all, just weapons.

> > [got carnivore mutation]

> One level of carnivore is actually a good mutation: it means you
> basically just got an amulet of the gourmand.

A half-strength one, though: a real AotG will always prevent sickness
from "contaminated" chunks like those from orcs, as long as you always
wait until the chunks rot. Carnivore won't protect you.

In a "touristy" endgame, things change a bit -- you're unlikely to find
any chunks at all while touring the optional endgame areas, so
carnivore and herbivore are both good as they reduce the number of
rations you need to carry for safety's sake, meaning less weight
carried, which is always a good thing.

> Polearm-wielding Human as a first winner? Not very common.

Judging from my current HuWa game and its continued success (doing
Gehenna right now), I'm beginning to think dicey characters are better
for first wins than solid ones -- you never get overconfident.

Erik
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 12:08:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <b91af452.0504140623.253749db@posting.google.com>,
Johan Strandell <johan.strandell@gmail.com> wrote:
>aps@turing.cs.hmc.edu (Andrew Patrick Schoonmaker) wrote in message news:<115o9gv2urs3be9@corp.supernews.com>...
>> Somewhere during this time Okawaru gave me some decent pieces of ego
>> armor, which was just about the last useful thing he did for me
>> equipment-wise (I had no reason to complain about the Haste and Might).
>> I next moved on to the Hive, the stairs for which were roughly a dozen
>> steps from the entrance to the Vaults. Since I was level 19 at this
>> point (partly due to a couple lucky finds of potions of experience),
>> this posed no difficulty. I also found a potion of cure mutation, which
>> got rid of everything except one level of "carnivore" and the Dopey,
>> which I figured I could live with. I don't think I used much of
>> anything that I found in the Hive, but at least I had the food stockpile
>> to fall back on.
>
>One level of carnivore is actually a good mutation: it means you
>basically just got an amulet of the gourmand.

Yeah, I figured that out pretty quickly :-)

>> After surfacing from the Vaults I figured I could dive a bit in the
>> Dungeon, and that was pretty much the rest of the game. I stopped off
>> in the Vestibule of Hell and must agree with everyone who says Geryon's
>> a big wuss, but I did not explore any of the rest of Hell.
>
>Probably a wise choice for a YAFVP.

Given my AC and EV (which, as you note, seem low), I wasn't eager to
do a lot of exploring, and I've heard very little good about the Hells.
I still haven't seen the Abyss, either (somewhat oddly, or so I gather).

>> ae00000E the Halberdier (Human)
>> (Level 27 Gladiator)
>
>Polearm-wielding Human as a first winner? Not very common.

Given the polearm selection, I can see why not :-)

>> Strength 21 Dexterity 20 Intelligence 9
>> Hit Points : 213 Magic Points : 36
>> AC : 19 Evasion : 10 Shield : 0
>> GP : 4302
>
>Not very high AC or EV. Didn't you find enough ?EA? (I can see below
>that you could have had another 4 AC if you had enhanced all your
>enchantable armour.) Many of my spellcasters have similar AC. :) 

Most of my stuff was better enchanted, but I ran into what I take to
be a shapechanger pit pretty low down the dungeon, and it seemed like
all they wanted to turn into was acid blobs...

[fruit]
>You could make a nice fruit salad with that. :) 

:-)

>> Magical staves
>> // I think I used my only scroll of acquirement on this. I wasn't sure
>> // what else to go for...
>> P - a rod of discovery (150 gold)
>
>Could have been worse.

It's true, my last similar character got two rods of striking...

>> Mutations & Other Weirdness
>> You are weak (Str -1).
>> You are dopey (Int -2).
>> Space occasionally distorts in your vicinity.
>
>The last one is a real player killer it seems. It might be different
>if you could trigger it yourself (IIRC you can't), but as it now it's
>not reliable enough for emergency escapes.

Indeed not. If I'd gotten it before the very end of the game I assume
Zot would've killed me; as it was it almost did so anyway.

-Andrew ()
!