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[DoomRL] A few observations...

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Anonymous
April 25, 2005 4:34:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

I like the game's concept, but here a few things that I think should
be revised (maybe bugs?):

1. When I descend some stairs, I appear in the level bellow... But I
can't see the stairs where I came from (so I can't go back), which is
a bit desorienting.

2. Sometimes, when I use the shotgun, the walls disappear. Once, all
the walls of the level disappeared!! Only the doors and the monsters
remained! I don't know if it's a feature... Even if it was because it
hit an explosive barrel, it shouldn't destroy walls like that!

3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
mean...


Now a couple questions:

a. Is the game being developed (i.e., new features, levels and ideas
will be implemented?

b. I think this game really has potencial. I wonder how would it be if
some more adventure elements were added (a simple story, PDAs [like
doom3], NPC's). Nothing too much, as DoomRL is aimed to be a simple
and straightforward game, but... ;) 

And to finish... Great game... Since ADOM, I didn't fancy a roguelike
game like this one. I hope it can became of of the best, in the
roguelike scene.


AngeloB

More about : doomrl observations

Anonymous
April 25, 2005 4:34:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:34:46 +0100, AngeloB <sabbath_7_@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I like the game's concept, but here a few things that I think should
>be revised (maybe bugs?):
>
>1. When I descend some stairs, I appear in the level bellow... But I
>can't see the stairs where I came from (so I can't go back), which is
>a bit desorienting.

One way trip, buddy. Rogue itself had unidirectional diving, so that's
more roguelike than reverse stairs.

>2. Sometimes, when I use the shotgun, the walls disappear. Once, all
>the walls of the level disappeared!! Only the doors and the monsters
>remained! I don't know if it's a feature... Even if it was because it
>hit an explosive barrel, it shouldn't destroy walls like that!

Blasting through walls is a feature, although one that probably needs
some work still. I think shotgun can't destroy walls, though.
Exploding barrels certainly can; that's one of the things that makes
them fun.

>3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
>don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
>from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
>mean...

Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 12:51:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com>
wrote on Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:27:09 -0700:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:34:46 +0100, AngeloB <sabbath_7_@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>I like the game's concept, but here a few things that I think should
>>be revised (maybe bugs?):
>>1. When I descend some stairs, I appear in the level bellow... But I
>>can't see the stairs where I came from (so I can't go back), which is
>>a bit desorienting.
> One way trip, buddy. Rogue itself had unidirectional diving, so that's
> more roguelike than reverse stairs.

Why does DoomRL have stairs at all? Doom has teleporters at the end
of each level that take you to a teleport receiver in the next level.
Some levels have secret teleporters to take you to a bonus level, then
on to the usual next level. You can never go back.

>>3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
>>don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
>>from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
>>mean...
> Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"

Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be "Pow!".
Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM! Kchnk-chnk",
Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket Launcher:
"Foosssh-KABOOM!"... I'm not sure how to render the Plasma Rifle or BFG
sounds in text.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
Related resources
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Anonymous
April 25, 2005 2:01:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
> Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be "Pow!".
> Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM! Kchnk-chnk",
> Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket Launcher:
> "Foosssh-KABOOM!"... I'm not sure how to render the Plasma Rifle or BFG
> sounds in text.

Pwaing-pwaing-pwaing and Zzzzzzzoooot-ka-CLINK ... Sizzle, respectively,
of course.
--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 6:28:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes <kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>:
> Why does DoomRL have stairs at all? Doom has teleporters at the end
>of each level that take you to a teleport receiver in the next level.

Er, no. Doom normally has switches. Doom II started to represent level
exits as teleporters. However, there's all sort of things; holes in the
floor into the void and dying spring to mind as other level exits.

No stairs, mind...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Potmos, May.
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 6:28:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes <kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>:
>
>> Why does DoomRL have stairs at all? Doom has teleporters at the end
>>of each level that take you to a teleport receiver in the next level.
>
> Er, no. Doom normally has switches. Doom II started to represent level
> exits as teleporters. However, there's all sort of things; holes in the
> floor into the void and dying spring to mind as other level exits.
>
> No stairs, mind...

Doom has stairs *within* levels. Doom had teleporters for at least some
level exits, as well as switches for the first six or so and maybe some
others.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 8:28:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

AngeloB wrote:
> I like the game's concept, but here a few things that I think should
> be revised (maybe bugs?):
>
> 1. When I descend some stairs, I appear in the level bellow... But I
> can't see the stairs where I came from (so I can't go back), which is
> a bit desorienting.

This is a Rogue and also Doom inheritance. Also it helps to maintain the
fast pace of the game. There's no turning back...

> 2. Sometimes, when I use the shotgun, the walls disappear. Once, all
> the walls of the level disappeared!! Only the doors and the monsters
> remained! I don't know if it's a feature... Even if it was because it
> hit an explosive barrel, it shouldn't destroy walls like that!

You were using the advanced shotgun I guess ;-).

> 3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
> don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
> from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
> mean...

That's an inheritance of the underlying fantasy DownFall engine. I may
change it some day. The next release tough will make things a lot more clear
tough :->

> Now a couple questions:
>
> a. Is the game being developed (i.e., new features, levels and ideas
> will be implemented?

Constantly ;-).

> b. I think this game really has potencial. I wonder how would it be if
> some more adventure elements were added (a simple story, PDAs [like
> doom3], NPC's). Nothing too much, as DoomRL is aimed to be a simple
> and straightforward game, but... ;) 

It's intended to be a simple cofee-break game. While I do plan to add some
more elements, I think that too much plot would ruin the game's pace and
also impare replayability.

> And to finish... Great game... Since ADOM, I didn't fancy a roguelike
> game like this one. I hope it can became of of the best, in the
> roguelike scene.

Thak you :-).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Gott weiss, Ich will kein Engel sein..." -- Rammstein /Engel/
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 8:29:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
>>> 3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
>>> don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
>>> from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
>>> mean...
>> Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"
>
> Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be
> "Pow!". Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM!
> Kchnk-chnk", Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket
> Launcher: "Foosssh-KABOOM!"... I'm not sure how to render the Plasma
> Rifle or BFG sounds in text.

This whole discussion will become pointless with the release of 0.9.8 ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"The name of GenRogue, has become a warning against excessively
complex design." -- RGRD FAQ
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 8:51:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
>
>>>>3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
>>>>don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
>>>>from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
>>>>mean...
>>>
>>>Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"
>>
>> Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be
>>"Pow!". Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM!
>>Kchnk-chnk", Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket
>>Launcher: "Foosssh-KABOOM!"... I'm not sure how to render the Plasma
>>Rifle or BFG sounds in text.
>
> This whole discussion will become pointless with the release of 0.9.8 ;-)

You mean it will have sounds?

Uh-oh...

Kornel, you aren't planning on violating id Software's copyrights, are you?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 3:54:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 25 Apr 2005 08:51:40 GMT, Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
<kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> wrote:

>R Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com>
>wrote on Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:27:09 -0700:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:34:46 +0100, AngeloB <sabbath_7_@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>I like the game's concept, but here a few things that I think should
>>>be revised (maybe bugs?):
>>>1. When I descend some stairs, I appear in the level bellow... But I
>>>can't see the stairs where I came from (so I can't go back), which is
>>>a bit desorienting.
>> One way trip, buddy. Rogue itself had unidirectional diving, so that's
>> more roguelike than reverse stairs.
>
> Why does DoomRL have stairs at all? Doom has teleporters at the end
>of each level that take you to a teleport receiver in the next level.
>Some levels have secret teleporters to take you to a bonus level, then
>on to the usual next level. You can never go back.

Actually, Doom uses two methods of level transition - switches (used in
Ep1, 2 and in some maps of EP4 and Doom 2 and Final Doom), and teleported
pads. Doom II's drop through the floor is identical to teleporters, with
the exception of using a different appearance.

>
>>>3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots... Well, I
>>>don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I fired a missile
>>>from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but you know what I
>>>mean...
>> Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"
>
> Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be "Pow!".
>Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM! Kchnk-chnk",
>Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket Launcher:
>"Foosssh-KABOOM!"...

Those sounds seem are off when compared to the original doom. While the
pistol and SG may be okay, the CG and RL don't use that onomatopoeia - the
sound doesn't match.

Onomatopoeias aren't really necessairy - most roguelike players prefer to
minimize messages that appear (or otherwise minimize the amount of tedious
"-More-" prompts.)

>I'm not sure how to render the Plasma Rifle or BFG
>sounds in text.

I wouldn't go for the original sound - the game was written at a time where
sound effects weren't as complex as they are now, and there's obviously
much better replacements.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 5:04:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
>>
>>>>> 3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots...
>>>>> Well, I don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I
>>>>> fired a missile from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but
>>>>> you know what I mean...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"
>>>
>>> Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be
>>> "Pow!". Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM!
>>> Kchnk-chnk", Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket
>>> Launcher: "Foosssh-KABOOM!"... I'm not sure how to render the
>>> Plasma Rifle or BFG sounds in text.
>>
>> This whole discussion will become pointless with the release of
>> 0.9.8 ;-)
>
> You mean it will have sounds?

LOL, that would be crazy -- adding shotsounds :-D

> Kornel, you aren't planning on violating id Software's copyrights,
> are you?

Nah. Not today. Anyway, I already violated some of it's rights (the ending
text), and I wouldn't be the first -- Doom 2D.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one
to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when
you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." - Sherm Pendley
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 5:08:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Raymond Martineau <bk039@ncf.ca>:
>Actually, Doom uses two methods of level transition - switches (used in
>Ep1, 2 and in some maps of EP4 and Doom 2 and Final Doom), and teleported
>pads.

Episode 3 uses switches as well. Trust me; I could practically draw the
maps from memory. Although the support was there for "walk over ends
level" in Doom 1, it wasn't used until Doom 2.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Oneiros, May.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 5:16:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
>Episode 3 uses switches as well. Trust me; I could practically draw the
>maps from memory. Although the support was there for "walk over ends
>level" in Doom 1, it wasn't used until Doom 2.

Er, I'm pretty sure E3M1 ends with a white gate.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.ht...
Everyone expected the Bavarian Inquisition.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 5:40:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk>:
>damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
>>Episode 3 uses switches as well. Trust me; I could practically draw the
>>maps from memory. Although the support was there for "walk over ends
>>level" in Doom 1, it wasn't used until Doom 2.
>Er, I'm pretty sure E3M1 ends with a white gate.

Guu, you're right, because of course it's the boobytrap in E3M9.

Now I'm overcome with insecurity and I think E3 does actually use gates
quite a bit, which is odd, because I can practically picture the switches
that aren't there in my mind.

Sorry, Raymond; my mistake.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Oneiros, May.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 5:40:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 27 Apr 2005 13:40:56 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Quoting Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk>:
>>damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
>>>Episode 3 uses switches as well. Trust me; I could practically draw the
>>>maps from memory. Although the support was there for "walk over ends
>>>level" in Doom 1, it wasn't used until Doom 2.
>>Er, I'm pretty sure E3M1 ends with a white gate.
>
>Guu, you're right, because of course it's the boobytrap in E3M9.
>
>Now I'm overcome with insecurity and I think E3 does actually use gates
>quite a bit, which is odd, because I can practically picture the switches
>that aren't there in my mind.

E3M6 uses a switch for the secret level exit. It's also reported to be
possible to activate without having to rocket-jump.
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 5:34:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Raymond Martineau <bk039@ncf.ca>:
><damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>Now I'm overcome with insecurity and I think E3 does actually use gates
>>quite a bit, which is odd, because I can practically picture the switches
>>that aren't there in my mind.
>E3M6 uses a switch for the secret level exit.

Aye, but I have a mental picture of switches that aren't there. I'll have
to go back and check...

>It's also reported to be
>possible to activate without having to rocket-jump.

Through the wall? Sounds plausible. I do admire the DDQ "Containment Area"
trick that runs down the goop trench, pulls the penultimate switch which
is in a locked room above the trench, steps onto the rising platform, and
exits the level in about 22 seconds flat.

[Summary for non-Doomers; Doom's engine only checks that you are
sufficiently close to a switch - in 2D only - and that you are facing the
right side of it. Interposing walls are not an issue.]
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Mania, May.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:37:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Raymond Martineau <bk039@ncf.ca>
wrote on Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:54:48 -0400:
> On 25 Apr 2005 08:51:40 GMT, Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
> <kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> wrote:
>> Why does DoomRL have stairs at all? Doom has teleporters at the end
>>of each level that take you to a teleport receiver in the next level.
>>Some levels have secret teleporters to take you to a bonus level, then
>>on to the usual next level. You can never go back.
> Actually, Doom uses two methods of level transition - switches (used in
> Ep1, 2 and in some maps of EP4 and Doom 2 and Final Doom), and teleported
> pads. Doom II's drop through the floor is identical to teleporters, with
> the exception of using a different appearance.

All of which are, internally, teleporters. Line-cross teleporters
("pads", "pits", whatever, that's all a visual fraud--there are only
lines) and hit-use-on-line ("switches" are a visual fraud, too--they're
just lines that activate when you hit the use button on them)
teleporters are functionally identical. I made a lot of Doom levels
back in the '90s, and I still play it once in a while today.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:54:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes <kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>:
>Raymond Martineau <bk039@ncf.ca>
>>Actually, Doom uses two methods of level transition - switches (used in
>>Ep1, 2 and in some maps of EP4 and Doom 2 and Final Doom), and teleported
>>pads. Doom II's drop through the floor is identical to teleporters, with
>>the exception of using a different appearance.
> All of which are, internally, teleporters. Line-cross teleporters
>("pads", "pits", whatever, that's all a visual fraud--there are only
>lines) and hit-use-on-line ("switches" are a visual fraud, too--they're
>just lines that activate when you hit the use button on them)
>teleporters are functionally identical.

Well, no. If you want to discuss internal representation, rather than
appearance, none of these are teleporters, they are level ending lines, a
different type. But then we get to the statement that almost all Doom
levels are ended by level ending thingums, which isn't very useful.

What DoomRL is interested in, however, is the appearance to the player;
and that's switches, teleporters, and pits that fall into the sky.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Aponoia, May.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:00:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Kornel Kisielewicz" <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>Twisted One wrote:
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>> Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> 3. A minor observation: the messages describing the shots...
>>>>>> Well, I don't know why, it doesn't feel right to hear that I
>>>>>> fired a missile from my pistol. I know bullets are missiles, but
>>>>>> you know what I mean...
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the message should just be "Bang!"
>>>>
>>>> Judging from the real Doom, the message for a pistol should be
>>>> "Pow!". Chainsaw: "Vabroom budda budda budda!", Shotgun: "BAM!
>>>> Kchnk-chnk", Chaingun: "Powpowpow-prrrrraaap-powpowpow!", Rocket
>>>> Launcher: "Foosssh-KABOOM!"... I'm not sure how to render the
>>>> Plasma Rifle or BFG sounds in text.
>>>
>>> This whole discussion will become pointless with the release of
>>> 0.9.8 ;-)
>>
>> You mean it will have sounds?
>
>LOL, that would be crazy -- adding shotsounds :-D
>
>> Kornel, you aren't planning on violating id Software's copyrights,
>> are you?
>
>Nah. Not today. Anyway, I already violated some of it's rights (the ending
>text), and I wouldn't be the first -- Doom 2D.

Give DoomRL wad support so people can supply their own legal copy of the
sound effects.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:00:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Bateau wrote:
>>>Kornel, you aren't planning on violating id Software's copyrights,
>>>are you?
>>
>>Nah. Not today. Anyway, I already violated some of it's rights (the ending
>>text), and I wouldn't be the first -- Doom 2D.
>
> Give DoomRL wad support so people can supply their own legal copy of the
> sound effects.

Uuuhh. That would be a lot of work for me tough :-/. I doubt there are
ready made bindigs for libwad for FreePascal...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one
to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when
you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." - Sherm Pendley
!