[Crawl] Yep it's me again

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Next monk is doing nearly as well but has found much more interesting
items!

Just heading to the temple to stash some stuff, any advice appreciated.
Lots of nice rings to choose from! Have I picked the best option for
now?

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Kzyzky the Black Belt (Demonspawn)
(Level 7 Monk)

Play time: 01:28:58 Number of turns: 7588

Experience : 7/1380
Strength 12 Dexterity 20 Intelligence 8
Hit Points : 53 Magic Points : 6
AC : 17 Evasion : 10 Shield : 0
GP : 65

You are in the Ecumenical Temple.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is most pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
h - an uncursed knife
G - an uncursed bow
Missiles
q - 28 poisoned needles
t - 15 poisoned orcish darts
F - 21 arrows
H - 25 arrows
Armour
m - a +2 helmet (worn)
u - a +2 ring mail of fire resistance (worn)
B - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
Magical devices
c - a wand of draining
A - a wand of lightning
Comestibles
b - 4 bread rations
r - 5 meat rations
I - an apple
Scrolls
e - a scroll labeled ULYREFOH FY
n - a scroll labeled SYWONYMYRYSI {tried}
w - 5 scrolls of remove curse
C - 2 scrolls labeled ISEXOGYHE
D - a scroll labeled V BAP N
Jewellery
i - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
l - a +2 ring of evasion (right hand)
s - a +3 ring of protection (left hand)
v - a +4 ring of dexterity
x - a ring of teleport control
y - a ring of magical power
z - a ring of ice
L - a +5 ring of strength
M - a large iron ring
Potions
a - a murky black potion
d - a purple potion
f - 5 potions of healing
j - a slimy pink potion
k - a slimy cyan potion
o - a cyan potion
p - a smoky black potion
E - a potion of speed
Books
J - a book of Minor Magic
K - a book of Frost


You have 31 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 4 Fighting
- Level 1 Darts
+ Level 2 Armour
- Level 2 Dodging
- Level 1 Stealth
+ Level 8 Unarmed Combat


You have 6 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Mutations & Other Weirdness
* You have very tough skin (AC +2).
* You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
9 answers Last reply
More about crawl again
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Monkey see...

    Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

    13 the Grappler (Minotaur)
    (Level 7 Monk)

    Play time: 01:24:39 Number of turns: 5358

    Experience : 7/1023
    Strength 21 Dexterity 16 Intelligence 8
    Hit Points : -11/90 (dead) Magic Points : 3
    AC : 4 Evasion : 11 Shield : 0
    GP : 32

    You are on level 5.
    You worship Okawaru.
    Okawaru is pleased with you.
    You are not hungry.

    Inventory:
    Hand weapons
    a - a +0 crossbow
    Missiles
    f - 36 +0 bolts
    Armour
    c - a +0 robe
    n - a +0 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
    A - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
    S - a cursed +0 orcish leather armour (worn)
    Magical devices
    s - a wand of fire (6)
    E - a wand of teleportation (10)
    Comestibles
    e - 3 bread rations
    r - 10 sultanas
    H - 10 grapes
    Scrolls
    b - a scroll of blinking
    d - a scroll of curse armour
    i - a scroll of recharging
    k - a scroll of identify
    J - a scroll of magic mapping
    N - a scroll of random uselessness
    U - a scroll of curse weapon
    Jewellery
    o - a +2 ring of intelligence
    p - a ring of fire
    D - a ring of life protection
    Q - a ring of poison resistance
    Potions
    g - 2 potions of healing
    t - a potion of poison
    u - 2 potions of invisibility
    V - a potion of speed
    X - a potion of slowing
    Carrion
    h - a rotting giant bat corpse
    j - a goblin corpse


    You have 92 experience left.

    Skills:
    + Level 5 Fighting
    + Level 5 Dodging
    - Level 2 Stealth
    - Level 1 Stabbing
    - Level 8 Unarmed Combat


    You have 6 spell levels left.
    You don't know any spells.

    Odd game in that I found a crossbow early and also saw three shields,
    one of each size, on level one. Died after I retreated up a stair and
    went down a different one only to end up in the same bad situation. A
    troll got in free hits and followed me back up. Quaffed potion of
    berserk rage but no use. Would've blinked but didn't have that scroll
    identified. Figured to go with light armor and possibly long blades. I
    really wanted to go with Trog but I'm trying to branch out a little.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    > Obviously you are not aware about unarmed\armour issue

    Actually I thought it might be an issue, but I was looking at the
    recent YAVP for a DeMo and he said:

    > a couple times. I found a +0 Dragon armor early in the lair, which
    was
    > my armor for most of the game, after using a ring mail to train up a
    > little armor. I eventually swapped it out for Storm Dragon Armor I
    made

    So I was training up armour, or at least attempting to. Plus the fire
    resistance seemed handy. Still I look for something lighter.


    Rich
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Erik Piper writes:
    > Loonie wrote:
    > > Dafty .-- .-. --- - . ---...
    > >>So I was training up armour, or at least attempting to. Plus the
    fire
    > >>resistance seemed handy. Still I look for something lighter.
    > >
    > >
    > > Ok, I see, this is rather unconventional way of playing unarmed
    because you
    > > need to be highly skilled (if ever possible) in armour to
    minimalise the
    > > penalties (penalty to chance of extra attacks with headbutt and
    tailslap,
    > > penalty to attack speed and finally penalty to chance of hitting).
    In your
    > > case with armour skill 2 unarmed 9 (let's add one) and ring mail
    -2EV you
    > > will have for example 100% chance that your gain of speed -30 will
    be
    > > wasted. When wearing a robe with the same stats your attack takes
    only 70
    > > units of time instead of 100. So you lose 42% (30/70) of your
    attacking
    > > power only when calculating attack speed, while there are also
    additional
    > > attacks that are very important also. So I'd suggest to stick to
    light
    > > armour (0EV, -1EV) for now. This will train your evasion stat also.
    >
    > Loonie, go back and read Igor D. WonderLlama's YAVP... it's clearly
    > possible to be effective as an armoured monk, as long as you're
    willing
    > to put an effort into training Armour.

    It is possible, but there's a serious amount of work to do early on to
    get it started. I put on the first ring mail I found and trained armor
    almost the whole game. Even then, I kept a robe around to change back
    into for tough fights. (On a different floor, not during the fight, of
    course.) It didn't really become effective until about armor 8. But
    then it really seemed like I was just as effective as could be.

    I knew that armor skill was going to be my most valuable offensive
    skill with this character, so I trained it very aggressively. Often
    allowing weak monsters to beat on me for very long periods of time,
    even using up food.

    Dafty, your character looks promising to me. He's in better shape than
    Misery was at that point in the game, except for not having the
    horns/spiked helm. Be careful! Because at this point in the game,
    like Loonie says, you really are taking a big hit to your offense. But
    I think we all agree you have crazy-good defense going. Train armor
    every chance you get, because right now it's your best offensive and
    defensive skill. Be on the lookout for cold and poison resist, to use
    as a swap if nothing else. You never know with Crawl, but I think you
    might have a shot.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Dafty .-- .-. --- - . ---...

    > Next monk is doing nearly as well but has found much more interesting
    > items!

    > Lots of nice rings to choose from! Have I picked the best option for
    > now?

    Seems to be ok.


    > Armour
    > m - a +2 helmet (worn)
    > u - a +2 ring mail of fire resistance (worn)
    > B - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)

    Obviously you are not aware about unarmed\armour issue, have you ever
    considered why martial artists wear some very loose kimonos and such? I
    suppose they would be really annoyed at you if you made them wear heavy
    iron armour and expect them to fight. :-) Try some robes or leather armours
    instead.


    > Scrolls
    > C - 2 scrolls labeled ISEXOGYHE

    I'd read one of the two scrolls in order to search for sure emergency
    resources. Similar strategy with potions until you have "heal wounds" at
    least (speed is even more useful).

    --
    Loonie
    ---------------------------------------
    Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
    http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Dafty .-- .-. --- - . ---...

    >> Obviously you are not aware about unarmed\armour issue
    > Actually I thought it might be an issue, but I was looking at the
    > recent YAVP for a DeMo and he said:
    >> a couple times. I found a +0 Dragon armor early in the lair, which
    >> was
    >> my armor for most of the game, after using a ring mail to train up a
    >> little armor. I eventually swapped it out for Storm Dragon Armor I
    >> made
    > So I was training up armour, or at least attempting to. Plus the fire
    > resistance seemed handy. Still I look for something lighter.

    Ok, I see, this is rather unconventional way of playing unarmed because you
    need to be highly skilled (if ever possible) in armour to minimalise the
    penalties (penalty to chance of extra attacks with headbutt and tailslap,
    penalty to attack speed and finally penalty to chance of hitting). In your
    case with armour skill 2 unarmed 9 (let's add one) and ring mail -2EV you
    will have for example 100% chance that your gain of speed -30 will be
    wasted. When wearing a robe with the same stats your attack takes only 70
    units of time instead of 100. So you lose 42% (30/70) of your attacking
    power only when calculating attack speed, while there are also additional
    attacks that are very important also. So I'd suggest to stick to light
    armour (0EV, -1EV) for now. This will train your evasion stat also.

    --
    Loonie
    ---------------------------------------
    Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
    http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Loonie wrote:
    > Dafty .-- .-. --- - . ---...
    >
    >
    >>> Obviously you are not aware about unarmed\armour issue
    >>
    >>Actually I thought it might be an issue, but I was looking at the
    >>recent YAVP for a DeMo and he said:
    >>
    >>>a couple times. I found a +0 Dragon armor early in the lair, which
    >>>was
    >>>my armor for most of the game, after using a ring mail to train up a
    >>>little armor. I eventually swapped it out for Storm Dragon Armor I
    >>>made
    >>
    >>So I was training up armour, or at least attempting to. Plus the fire
    >>resistance seemed handy. Still I look for something lighter.
    >
    >
    > Ok, I see, this is rather unconventional way of playing unarmed because you
    > need to be highly skilled (if ever possible) in armour to minimalise the
    > penalties (penalty to chance of extra attacks with headbutt and tailslap,
    > penalty to attack speed and finally penalty to chance of hitting). In your
    > case with armour skill 2 unarmed 9 (let's add one) and ring mail -2EV you
    > will have for example 100% chance that your gain of speed -30 will be
    > wasted. When wearing a robe with the same stats your attack takes only 70
    > units of time instead of 100. So you lose 42% (30/70) of your attacking
    > power only when calculating attack speed, while there are also additional
    > attacks that are very important also. So I'd suggest to stick to light
    > armour (0EV, -1EV) for now. This will train your evasion stat also.

    Loonie, go back and read Igor D. WonderLlama's YAVP... it's clearly
    possible to be effective as an armoured monk, as long as you're willing
    to put an effort into training Armour.

    Erik
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Loonie wrote:
    > Igor D. WonderLlama .-- .-. --- - . ---...
    >
    > > It is possible, but there's a serious amount of work to do early on
    to
    > > get it started. I put on the first ring mail I found and trained
    armor
    > > almost the whole game. Even then, I kept a robe around to change
    back
    > > into for tough fights. (On a different floor, not during the
    fight, of
    > > course.) It didn't really become effective until about armor 8.
    But
    > > then it really seemed like I was just as effective as could be.
    > >
    > > I knew that armor skill was going to be my most valuable offensive
    > > skill with this character, so I trained it very aggressively.
    Often
    > > allowing weak monsters to beat on me for very long periods of time,
    > > even using up food.
    >
    > It seems to me that the effort is similar to my attempt of casting
    blade
    > hands with minotaur. :-) It is possible but takes a lot of work,
    while in
    > fact the effects are not very impressive, even at the end. It seems
    to me
    > that evasion skill trained with light armour is at least equivalent
    to
    > armour skill, especially regarding significant amount of ranged and
    magic
    > attacks. It might be interesting to have some armour skill when
    wearing
    > light armour with average base_armour value, mottled dragon armour
    5AC
    > -1EV. Then with armour skill of 15 you have another 5AC plus 4AC from
    other
    > armour parts. I've noted that most unarmed fighters tend to switch to
    -2EV,
    > -3EV or at extreme -5EV at the end of game, but it seems to me that
    they
    > just trade offence for defence and\or extra resistances (fire, cold,
    > electricity). I'm not sure if the defence gain is worth the effort,
    it's
    > possible to calculate at any particular case but rather complicated
    to give
    > generalized conclusion (except for intuitive one ;).

    Oh no, it was VERY effective. There really wasn't anything that could
    hurt me at the end. This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion, but I
    find I am a lot harder to kill with high AC than high EV. I'm talking
    the difference between being able to sit around and ignore most
    late-game monsters to having to worry about death every other step. On
    top of which, using armor means you'll be able to use dragon armor.
    Which guarantees you good resists. Sure, you might find the resist you
    want on light armor, but not always, and in this particular game, I
    never did. Storm dragon armor is the reason I was able to have all the
    resists covered.

    Now of course, I could have done that with a conventional fighter.
    This was my first really high-level monk, and I've got to say I'm
    impressed. The attack speed was just unreal, and the headbutts were
    deadly. I've had a number of axe-maniacs with executioner's axes, and
    I don't remember ever having a character this deadly.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Igor D. WonderLlama .-- .-. --- - . ---...

    > It is possible, but there's a serious amount of work to do early on to
    > get it started. I put on the first ring mail I found and trained armor
    > almost the whole game. Even then, I kept a robe around to change back
    > into for tough fights. (On a different floor, not during the fight, of
    > course.) It didn't really become effective until about armor 8. But
    > then it really seemed like I was just as effective as could be.
    >
    > I knew that armor skill was going to be my most valuable offensive
    > skill with this character, so I trained it very aggressively. Often
    > allowing weak monsters to beat on me for very long periods of time,
    > even using up food.

    It seems to me that the effort is similar to my attempt of casting blade
    hands with minotaur. :-) It is possible but takes a lot of work, while in
    fact the effects are not very impressive, even at the end. It seems to me
    that evasion skill trained with light armour is at least equivalent to
    armour skill, especially regarding significant amount of ranged and magic
    attacks. It might be interesting to have some armour skill when wearing
    light armour with average base_armour value, mottled dragon armour 5AC
    -1EV. Then with armour skill of 15 you have another 5AC plus 4AC from other
    armour parts. I've noted that most unarmed fighters tend to switch to -2EV,
    -3EV or at extreme -5EV at the end of game, but it seems to me that they
    just trade offence for defence and\or extra resistances (fire, cold,
    electricity). I'm not sure if the defence gain is worth the effort, it's
    possible to calculate at any particular case but rather complicated to give
    generalized conclusion (except for intuitive one ;).

    --
    Loonie
    ---------------------------------------
    Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
    http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

    Igor D. WonderLlama .-- .-. --- - . ---...

    > Oh no, it was VERY effective. There really wasn't anything that could
    > hurt me at the end. This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion, but I
    > find I am a lot harder to kill with high AC than high EV. I'm talking
    > the difference between being able to sit around and ignore most
    > late-game monsters to having to worry about death every other step. On
    > top of which, using armor means you'll be able to use dragon armor.
    > Which guarantees you good resists. Sure, you might find the resist you
    > want on light armor, but not always, and in this particular game, I
    > never did. Storm dragon armor is the reason I was able to have all the
    > resists covered.

    Ok, I see. With your stats you have guaranteed 52% of damage covered or
    random number from 0 to 41 whichever higher. Your character pain tolerance
    is really high then ;-) Thus I guess it's the physical and ranged attacks
    that count most in the endgame especially when your resistances are well
    covered, as in your case.


    > Now of course, I could have done that with a conventional fighter.
    > This was my first really high-level monk, and I've got to say I'm
    > impressed. The attack speed was just unreal, and the headbutts were
    > deadly. I've had a number of axe-maniacs with executioner's axes, and
    > I don't remember ever having a character this deadly.

    That's popular opinion about monk fighters. :)

    --
    Loonie
    ---------------------------------------
    Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
    http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
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